The Dark Sun Own Zone (56k Likes Dragonlance)

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ritorix: Jul 22, 2007; Vancian Roulette

ManMythLegend posted:

Paging all recruits.

He lives!

# ? Jan 8, 2010 06:17

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 20:18

BetterWeirdthanDead: Mar 7, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

The three books (but no Dungeon Tile set) are available for pre-order now.

Is anyone going to D&D XP? We need inside info on the Dark Sun event.

# ? Jan 15, 2010 18:02

rantmo: Jul 30, 2003; A smile better suits a hero

I was going to, since it's so close to Chicago, but I just got laid off and can't justify it.

# ? Jan 15, 2010 20:49

ritorix: Jul 22, 2007; Vancian Roulette

There is a bit of new info though, on weapon material qualities. Materials basically wont have an impact, so you can still use bone weapons at paragon tier and you will get your Inherent Bonus to them. No more -2 to this material, -1 to that, so you dont really need metal weapons just for penalty avoidance.

Weapon breakage rules will be optional.

# ? Jan 15, 2010 23:07

BetterWeirdthanDead: Mar 7, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

All the more reason for me to keep hitting people with sharpened lizard pelvises.

I'm glad to hear improvised weapons can maintain the setting's flavor without penalizing players.

# ? Jan 16, 2010 06:18

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

BetterWeirdthanDead posted:

I'm glad to hear improvised weapons can maintain the setting's flavor without penalizing players.

As it should. What your sword or kahuluk or whatever is made out of should just be a cosmetic thing. At the same time, breaking weapons (and therefor looting new ones) really fits with the strong Sword & Sorcery vibe of Dark Sun.

# ? Jan 16, 2010 06:23

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 202 days!

I'd still like to see something that makes actual metal weapons feel relatively special, but it sounds like the weapon breaking thing might do the trick. Maybe it will work like Dark Heresy, where Power Weapons have a chance to break more mundane weapons when they parry them.

# ? Jan 16, 2010 06:35

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

That's true, but I don't think mechanics are necessary for players to get attached to something. They surely help (a lot), but I can also easily see even the less story driven kind of player getting attached to his steel sword if it's made to feel significant.

# ? Jan 16, 2010 06:38

Kerison: Apr 9, 2004; by angerbot

Let's talk Dark Sun music. Obviously, those LotR soundtracks (along with plenty of other standbys) don't cut it. I'm introducing a group to Dark Sun this weekend and decided I wanted mood music for the session, so I sifted through Amazon and settled on Classical Arab and Indian. The oud in particular is great, and it's pretty much all clean, instrumental sounds.

# ? Jan 28, 2010 09:34

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Will they be using the optional rules from DMG II regarding limited magical items, where instead of enhancement bonuses characters have inherent bonuses from being more experienced and badass?

I really loved that concept, especially since it allowed players to grow attached to their particular items. And it makes stuff like a +1 longsword, which might otherwise seem utterly mundane, be incredibly powerful and in line with the supposed rarity.

# ? Jan 28, 2010 12:58

jigokuman: Aug 28, 2002; Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.

Kerison posted:

Let's talk Dark Sun music. Obviously, those LotR soundtracks (along with plenty of other standbys) don't cut it. I'm introducing a group to Dark Sun this weekend and decided I wanted mood music for the session, so I sifted through Amazon and settled on Classical Arab and Indian. The oud in particular is great, and it's pretty much all clean, instrumental sounds.

Just listen to Nomad by Sepultura on a constant loop.

# ? Jan 28, 2010 13:38

Pharmaskittle: Dec 17, 2007; arf arf put the money in the fuckin bag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd-bMyOQgQ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF2AkNJApOI

And a bunch of the more chilled-out ES Posthumous stuff I guess. I looked back to see if the Fallout series had any good music, but not so much.

# ? Jan 28, 2010 21:36

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Squizzle posted:

Who wants scans of the Dark Sun pregens from DDXP? Because this guy has them:
http://critical-hits.com/2010/01/29/dd-xp-2010-dark-sun-characters/

Edit: And it confirms that half-giants are goliaths.
Edit 2: Thri-kreen still don't sleep, but instead become "torpid" for four hours to gain an extended rest. Muls, it seems, take an extended rest once every 72 hours, and I guess their rest-delineated resources automatically refresh every 24 hours...? That's a monumentally crappy feature, for certain.

Veiled Alliance is a theme as well, and its associated encounter power lets you veil your or an ally's presence.

Edit 3: Oh, I get it. The mul can skip sleeping for two days, but still gain the benefits of any extended rests the party takes; they're perfect night watchmen. It's still a crappy feature (especially as it appears to replace a racial encounter power or other major feature, e.g. dwarf Second Wind as a minor), but at least it makes sense. (Seriously, the thri-kreen or eladrin or warforged or shardmind can all take extended rests while remaining aware of surroundings; this differs only in the hair-splittingest of ways.) I suspect there's something we don't see on that sheet that completes mul racial balance.

I've got to say I'm pretty happy by what I see here. Some quick initial thoughts:

1) Making templar into a Sorcerer King Pact warlock is such a brilliantly simple change that I feel disappointed that I didn't think of it myself. I'm curious if they're going to talk about how Dark Sun affects the other flavors of Warlock. For example Dark Pact being with beings from the Black, etc.

2) So I'm guessing these theme powers are a substitute for PC wild talents. I haven't dissected all the pluses yet so it�s still possible that wild talents are handled like backgrounds in other settings though.

3) I think they handled the whole Thri-Kreen multi-arm thing I was worried about very well. I'm definitely relieved about that one.

4) I kind of wish there was more of reason to use defiling magic. Right now it just seems kind of bleh. I was kind of hoping for a bonus to damage or the attack roll to make it more of a tough decision.

5) I think that Half-Orc is better suited for reflavoring to Half-Giant, but that�s a minor quibble.

# ? Jan 29, 2010 23:04

Liesmith: Jan 29, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

I feel like all magic should be defiling magic unless otherwise stated, rather than the other way around. a big part of the setting seems to be that nice people who give a poo poo about consequences are an abberation so you would think anyone power hungry enough to go for arcane magic wouldn't give a poo poo about killing the earth.

# ? Jan 29, 2010 23:16

Vermain: Sep 5, 2006

Liesmith posted:

I feel like all magic should be defiling magic unless otherwise stated, rather than the other way around. a big part of the setting seems to be that nice people who give a poo poo about consequences are an abberation so you would think anyone power hungry enough to go for arcane magic wouldn't give a poo poo about killing the earth.

Setting-wise, I like the idea that magic is inherently neutral because it only further emphasizes the fact that the whole state of Athas was caused by people being power-hungry dicks, rather than by some inviolable law of nature. The population could have gotten along just fine with normal magic, but greed overruled common sense and plunged the whole world into a hellscape. (Although this seems to be what you're saying, in essence. Am I just misinterpreting it?)

# ? Jan 29, 2010 23:23

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Liesmith posted:

I feel like all magic should be defiling magic unless otherwise stated, rather than the other way around. a big part of the setting seems to be that nice people who give a poo poo about consequences are an abberation so you would think anyone power hungry enough to go for arcane magic wouldn't give a poo poo about killing the earth.

I agree with you that preservers are implied in the setting to be very rare, or at least a minority of all magic users but preserving magic was always over represented in the PC population with the tendency for people to play the "good guys".

As far as how magic "naturally" works in Dark Sun it's actually normally preserving. Defilers and Preservers talks about how Rajaat actually "invented" defiling magic and how it then spreads like wild fire since people are basically selfish assholes looking for the path of least resistance.

# ? Jan 29, 2010 23:30

Kerison: Apr 9, 2004; by angerbot

gently caress that Rajaat guy, ruining everything for everybody.

# ? Jan 29, 2010 23:33

Liesmith: Jan 29, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Vermain posted:

Setting-wise, I like the idea that magic is inherently neutral because it only further emphasizes the fact that the whole state of Athas was caused by people being power-hungry dicks, rather than by some inviolable law of nature. The population could have gotten along just fine with normal magic, but greed overruled common sense and plunged the whole world into a hellscape. (Although this seems to be what you're saying, in essence. Am I just misinterpreting it?)

I'd say that while that was true ages ago when the world was green and the gods still gave a poo poo, nowadays the only people who are going to be using arcane magic are a) aspiring sorcerer kings, and b) aspiring whatever the anti dragon dudes are. it's hard to care about the environment when it is either nakedly hostile or already dead, and regular people aren't going to be doing wizardry because it is illegal and mostly hated. only people who really need power are going to go down that path, and most of them won't give a gently caress about who they hurt.

I mean if you live out in the wild deadly places like that sea of silt, who gives a poo poo whether you defile it? It's already awful. and if you live in a town you've got to either care a lot or not at all about the consequences, because the minute you get caught being all arcane you get run out on a rail. so pretty much everyone who isn't a saint that uses arcane magic is going to be a desperado, a psychopath, or is going to actively hate the deadly landscape they live in.

# ? Jan 29, 2010 23:35

Pharmaskittle: Dec 17, 2007; arf arf put the money in the fuckin bag

It should really feel like you're at a disadvantage if you use Preserver-style magic. The way it sounds like it mechanically works sounds pretty lame. I'd even go so far as to restrict PC's to only using Preserving magic, and just flavor Defiler enemies as being more powerful despite being less experienced than the PC casters.

# ? Jan 29, 2010 23:43

Liesmith: Jan 29, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

I think I'd give preserver magic all the negatives of defiler magic except for the flavor of actually defining poo poo. so I'd look for ways to catch the player who was doing unsubtle arcane stuff and then make people just freak the gently caress out about him.

I'd be more forgiving of defiler magic like if he made any attempt to be subtle the player would be less likely to get noticed than doing the same action with perserving. like if he's alone in an alley and does perserving magic maybe somebody sees it out a window, but the same thing with defiling and I'd be all "you get away with it because you're alone in an alley"

I wouldn't just gently caress the guy out of nowhere there would be like rolls or something but it would still be a negative

basically I'd want to make the player feel like there is no advantage at all to ever using preserving magic. It's a straight up sacrifice

# ? Jan 30, 2010 00:39

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Liesmith posted:

I think I'd give preserver magic all the negatives of defiler magic except for the flavor of actually defining poo poo. so I'd look for ways to catch the player who was doing unsubtle arcane stuff and then make people just freak the gently caress out about him.

I'd be more forgiving of defiler magic like if he made any attempt to be subtle the player would be less likely to get noticed than doing the same action with perserving. like if he's alone in an alley and does perserving magic maybe somebody sees it out a window, but the same thing with defiling and I'd be all "you get away with it because you're alone in an alley"

This actually pretty much the status quo for Dark Sun. The average Athasian doesn't recognize the distinction between the two types. Functionally they look identical, and unless you're in a garden or something people probably won't even notice the plant ashing. If a mage of either type flaunts their magic they'll probably incite and angry mob at best or the templar at worst.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 02:31

Liesmith: Jan 29, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

ManMythLegend posted:

This actually pretty much the status quo for Dark Sun. The average Athasian doesn't recognize the distinction between the two types. Functionally they look identical, and unless you're in a garden or something people probably won't even notice the plant ashing. If a mage of either type flaunts their magic they'll probably incite and angry mob at best or the templar at worst.

right but I'd actually weight their chances of getting caught so that perserver magic was slightly more risky just to discourage moral behavior. If you want to be a good guy you have to work at it

# ? Jan 30, 2010 02:36

BetterWeirdthanDead: Mar 7, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Yeah, the old books repeatedly tell any preserver to find ways to pretend they're a psionicist, disguise their spellbook through macrame or somesuch, and spend a nonweapon proficiency on ways to hide somatic spell components.

The sample wizard from D&D XP has his spellbook scribed unto strips of cloth that he wraps around his body and hides under his robes.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 02:38

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Back in the day they even had proficiencies you select to help you do just that. They were very useful. One could even say they were vital.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 02:41

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

I would say they were vital.

Now you guys are saying life should be tougher for Preservers, but consider this: the cities all have Veiled Alliances of varying strengths that are willing to support and train Preservers, whereas Defilers are hunted by both the Veiled Alliance and the Dragon Kings; the former for philosophical reasons, and the latter for practical ones. Additionally, the sourcebooks indicate that those who know the difference generally prefer to have Preservers around. So adventuring Preservers probably have a slightly easier time than adventuring Defilers.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 04:03

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

PeterWeller posted:

I would say they were vital.

Now you guys are saying life should be tougher for Preservers, but consider this: the cities all have Veiled Alliances of varying strengths that are willing to support and train Preservers, whereas Defilers are hunted by both the Veiled Alliance and the Dragon Kings; the former for philosophical reasons, and the latter for practical ones. Additionally, the sourcebooks indicate that those who know the difference generally prefer to have Preservers around. So adventuring Preservers probably have a slightly easier time than adventuring Defilers.

I was always under the impression that the Veiled Alliance only helped a preserver out if said wizard plays by their rules. Otherwise they'll hunt them just the same as any other defiler. I also understood that low level defilers would form local cells for mutual protection and sharing of resources.

Honestly life should be very hard for any flavor of magic user in Dark Sun. I always liked the idea that you had guys wandering around that could control the forces of the universe, but lived in constant fear of more or less uneducated cattle. Remember it was an uneducated slave who landed the killing blow on Kalak.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 04:15

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Actually, Rikus was fairly well educated for a slave. I'm pretty sure he knew how to read. But your point still stands. I agree all wizards should live tough lives. You're a guy messing with the very forces that ruined the world.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 04:22

Argali: Jun 24, 2004; I will be there to receive the new mind

I wish this was coming out sooner. I'm planning to launch a new campaign in February, but I know I will want to switch to Dark Sun the day it comes out.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 13:44

Kerison: Apr 9, 2004; by angerbot

Argali posted:

I wish this was coming out sooner. I'm planning to launch a new campaign in February, but I know I will want to switch to Dark Sun the day it comes out.

That's how I was feeling, so I opted to run Dark Sun so that I can switch to Dark Sun.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 19:17

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Argali posted:

I wish this was coming out sooner. I'm planning to launch a new campaign in February, but I know I will want to switch to Dark Sun the day it comes out.

Run something short in a gimmick setting or with a different game. We're probably going to squeeze in a short SWSE campaign between the end of our current FR campaign and when we start playing DS.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 19:48

ritorix: Jul 22, 2007; Vancian Roulette

Hmm the templar is using a superior implement. And she has +7 to the will attacks, but only +6 to the others. Whats going on there.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 20:59

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

From DDXP's Dark Sun seminar:

First, they wanted to stick to some very core concepts for Dark Sun. The designers went back and reacquainted themselves with the setting, to make sure they weren't just bringing their own recollections and biases. They created "Seven Sentences"--revealed at the seminar, but not yet spilled online that I found. Everything they designed for 4E Dark Sun had to comply with these sentences. They see Athas as a world more related to Burroughs and Howard than to Tolkien--the Critial Hits coverage specifically called out Barsoom and Conan. (gently caress Leno, by the way.) They want old and new fans to have the same feelings that someone would get from the first boxed set.
The described setting will be a region smaller in size than Texas. This comports with the first boxed set. There's an image floating around that I'll try to find later, which transposes the Tablelands onto a world map. They occupy less land area than Colorado.
The Campaign Setting will have: two new races (mul and thri-kreen, on which more below), zero character classes (but we knew that), 10 character themes (on which more below), and the usual myriad of paragon paths, feats, and gear.
The races are mul (which they want you to pronounce "muhl", but that's dumb) and thri-kreen. Thri-kreen have been broken down already, in prior spoilers (dex/wis, athletics/nature, hand-related features/power); muls are con/(str or wis), and have some ability to shrug off negative status effects.
Themes are something they're considering migrating to the core, they like them so much. They're a "third leg", alongside class and race, that lets you define your character mechanically. They provide an encounter power, and further powers can be taken in lieu of class powers. Themes will also be used to qualify for theme-related feats, paragon paths, etc. The gladiator theme is cited specifically as control-oriented, and a backdoor way of building a martial controller. Feel free to start a spergument about that, guys!
The wilder theme will have psionic cantrips!
Half-giants are in, via goliaths. Protean moods are still part of the flavor, but in no way mechanically required.
Dragonborn and tieflings are both in. They tried to integrate them into the setting's core, instead of bolting them on awkwardly. We know from previous (intentional) leaks that dragonborn are the dray, for instance.
Regarding gnomes and other elements forbidden by original Dark Sun, they are not assumed as a core assumption, but will be specifically marked as a table-by-table decision.
Retailers said that customers wanted a lot more flavor and world information in the setting guides in order to run them. The Campaign Setting has a detailed atlas, extensive cultural notes, notes on DMing a Dark Sun game, and a short intro adventure.
DDI will support Dark Sun every month, trying to split it between adventures and Dragon content.
The Creature Catalogue will have 120 murderables split among 50 types. (Look at the Monster Manual, for instance; under the "Goblin" heading, there are multiple specific stat blocks for individual murderables.) Included are the seven sorcerer-kings, ranging from low epic to high epic, and the Dragon of Tyr. There will be templates, hazards, etc. Designers are excited about the "design technology" they've developed with this, including revised skill challenges--because every year, we need at least one revision of that goddamn system.
The core cosmology is in, massaged into an Athasian shape. The remaining magical forests, for instance, fit a Feywild aesthetic just fine. The Shadowfell was a conceptual descendent of the Grey in many ways already.
Metal is scarce, so look for weapons to be made of bone, wood, etc. Magic is dangerous and distrusted, so inherent bonuses are assumed instead of the item treadmill.
There's the concept of the "survival-day", which is everything you need to withstand the wilderness for a single day. Run out of these, and you start on the "sun sickness" disease track.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 23:37

ritorix: Jul 22, 2007; Vancian Roulette

poo poo its going to be awesome

Sun-sickness disease track, I like that idea. Everything sounds perfect, this is great news.

# ? Jan 30, 2010 23:59

shotgunbadger: Nov 18, 2008; WEEK 4 - RETIRED

Squizzle posted:

From DDXP's Dark Sun seminar:

First, they wanted to stick to some very core concepts for Dark Sun. The designers went back and reacquainted themselves with the setting, to make sure they weren't just bringing their own recollections and biases. They created "Seven Sentences"--revealed at the seminar, but not yet spilled online that I found. Everything they designed for 4E Dark Sun had to comply with these sentences. They see Athas as a world more related to Burroughs and Howard than to Tolkien--the Critial Hits coverage specifically called out Barsoom and Conan. (gently caress Leno, by the way.) They want old and new fans to have the same feelings that someone would get from the first boxed set.

The described setting will be a region smaller in size than Texas. This comports with the first boxed set. There's an image floating around that I'll try to find later, which transposes the Tablelands onto a world map. They occupy less land area than Colorado.

The Campaign Setting will have: two new races (mul and thri-kreen, on which more below), zero character classes (but we knew that), 10 character themes (on which more below), and the usual myriad of paragon paths, feats, and gear.

The races are mul (which they want you to pronounce "muhl", but that's dumb) and thri-kreen. Thri-kreen have been broken down already, in prior spoilers (dex/wis, athletics/nature, hand-related features/power); muls are con/(str or wis), and have some ability to shrug off negative status effects.

Themes are something they're considering migrating to the core, they like them so much. They're a "third leg", alongside class and race, that lets you define your character mechanically. They provide an encounter power, and further powers can be taken in lieu of class powers. Themes will also be used to qualify for theme-related feats, paragon paths, etc. The gladiator theme is cited specifically as control-oriented, and a backdoor way of building a martial controller. Feel free to start a spergument about that, guys!

The wilder theme will have psionic cantrips!

Half-giants are in, via goliaths. Protean moods are still part of the flavor, but in no way mechanically required.

Dragonborn and tieflings are both in. They tried to integrate them into the setting's core, instead of bolting them on awkwardly. We know from previous (intentional) leaks that dragonborn are the dray, for instance.

Regarding gnomes and other elements forbidden by original Dark Sun, they are not assumed as a core assumption, but will be specifically marked as a table-by-table decision.

Retailers said that customers wanted a lot more flavor and world information in the setting guides in order to run them. The Campaign Setting has a detailed atlas, extensive cultural notes, notes on DMing a Dark Sun game, and a short intro adventure.

DDI will support Dark Sun every month, trying to split it between adventures and Dragon content.

The Creature Catalogue will have 120 murderables split among 50 types. (Look at the Monster Manual, for instance; under the "Goblin" heading, there are multiple specific stat blocks for individual murderables.) Included are the seven sorcerer-kings, ranging from low epic to high epic, and the Dragon of Tyr. There will be templates, hazards, etc. Designers are excited about the "design technology" they've developed with this, including revised skill challenges--because every year, we need at least one revision of that goddamn system.

The core cosmology is in, massaged into an Athasian shape. The remaining magical forests, for instance, fit a Feywild aesthetic just fine. The Shadowfell was a conceptual descendent of the Grey in many ways already.

Metal is scarce, so look for weapons to be made of bone, wood, etc. Magic is dangerous and distrusted, so inherent bonuses are assumed instead of the item treadmill.

There's the concept of the "survival-day", which is everything you need to withstand the wilderness for a single day. Run out of these, and you start on the "sun sickness" disease track.

Dark Sun Status: Still owns. I am so drat pumped for this.

# ? Jan 31, 2010 00:17

Mikan: Sep 5, 2007; by Radium

shotgunbadger posted:

Dark Sun Status: Still owns. I am so drat pumped for this.

# ? Jan 31, 2010 00:22

BetterWeirdthanDead: Mar 7, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

I am so looking forward to making players scour the wastes in rags and fetish gear.

E: And the minies will be much cooler this time around.

BetterWeirdthanDead fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jan 31, 2010

# ? Jan 31, 2010 00:29

ritorix: Jul 22, 2007; Vancian Roulette

some guy posted:

Weapon breakage rules are as follows: if you roll a 1 on an attack with a weapon, you can reroll it. If you�re using a non-metal weapon, it automatically breaks after the attack if you do so. If you�re using a metal weapon, it breaks on a roll of 1-5.

So you can turn an auto-miss into a possible hit, but at the cost of your weapon. Essentially no cost if you have a spare, so great for botched Dailies. And metal weapons can break too, with a 25% chance vs the 100% chance of a nonmetal.

# ? Jan 31, 2010 00:33

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

I always called them "muhls".

All that stuff sounds great, and I am only getting more excited.

BetterWeirdthanDead, the guy on the far right isn't a Dark Sun mini. That's the male elf wizard from the male/female sets Ral Partha used to make. I think I still have those two somewhere.

# ? Jan 31, 2010 00:49

BetterWeirdthanDead: Mar 7, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

I still have a few DS minis. I don't have any Half-giants or kreen like my DM did, though.

I think RP made minis for the iconic Belgoi image and the Dragon of Tyr as well.

# ? Jan 31, 2010 01:02

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 20:18

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Squizzle posted:

From DDXP's Dark Sun seminar:

First, they wanted to stick to some very core concepts for Dark Sun. The designers went back and reacquainted themselves with the setting, to make sure they weren't just bringing their own recollections and biases. They created "Seven Sentences"--revealed at the seminar, but not yet spilled online that I found. Everything they designed for 4E Dark Sun had to comply with these sentences. They see Athas as a world more related to Burroughs and Howard than to Tolkien--the Critial Hits coverage specifically called out Barsoom and Conan. (gently caress Leno, by the way.) They want old and new fans to have the same feelings that someone would get from the first boxed set.

The described setting will be a region smaller in size than Texas. This comports with the first boxed set. There's an image floating around that I'll try to find later, which transposes the Tablelands onto a world map. They occupy less land area than Colorado.

The Campaign Setting will have: two new races (mul and thri-kreen, on which more below), zero character classes (but we knew that), 10 character themes (on which more below), and the usual myriad of paragon paths, feats, and gear.

The races are mul (which they want you to pronounce "muhl", but that's dumb) and thri-kreen. Thri-kreen have been broken down already, in prior spoilers (dex/wis, athletics/nature, hand-related features/power); muls are con/(str or wis), and have some ability to shrug off negative status effects.

Themes are something they're considering migrating to the core, they like them so much. They're a "third leg", alongside class and race, that lets you define your character mechanically. They provide an encounter power, and further powers can be taken in lieu of class powers. Themes will also be used to qualify for theme-related feats, paragon paths, etc. The gladiator theme is cited specifically as control-oriented, and a backdoor way of building a martial controller. Feel free to start a spergument about that, guys!

The wilder theme will have psionic cantrips!

Half-giants are in, via goliaths. Protean moods are still part of the flavor, but in no way mechanically required.

Dragonborn and tieflings are both in. They tried to integrate them into the setting's core, instead of bolting them on awkwardly. We know from previous (intentional) leaks that dragonborn are the dray, for instance.

Regarding gnomes and other elements forbidden by original Dark Sun, they are not assumed as a core assumption, but will be specifically marked as a table-by-table decision.

Retailers said that customers wanted a lot more flavor and world information in the setting guides in order to run them. The Campaign Setting has a detailed atlas, extensive cultural notes, notes on DMing a Dark Sun game, and a short intro adventure.

DDI will support Dark Sun every month, trying to split it between adventures and Dragon content.

The Creature Catalogue will have 120 murderables split among 50 types. (Look at the Monster Manual, for instance; under the "Goblin" heading, there are multiple specific stat blocks for individual murderables.) Included are the seven sorcerer-kings, ranging from low epic to high epic, and the Dragon of Tyr. There will be templates, hazards, etc. Designers are excited about the "design technology" they've developed with this, including revised skill challenges--because every year, we need at least one revision of that goddamn system.

The core cosmology is in, massaged into an Athasian shape. The remaining magical forests, for instance, fit a Feywild aesthetic just fine. The Shadowfell was a conceptual descendent of the Grey in many ways already.

Metal is scarce, so look for weapons to be made of bone, wood, etc. Magic is dangerous and distrusted, so inherent bonuses are assumed instead of the item treadmill.

There's the concept of the "survival-day", which is everything you need to withstand the wilderness for a single day. Run out of these, and you start on the "sun sickness" disease track.

shotgunbadger posted:

Dark Sun Status: Still owns. I am so drat pumped for this.

# ? Jan 31, 2010 01:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Dark Sun Own Zone (56k Likes Dragonlance)

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