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And beats Tec to death with the Dark Lens. Which I always thought was pretty cool, actually. Here are these two masters of defiling and psionics, and the one beats the other's head in with what amounts to a big stone. Imagine how that showdown would have played out in any other setting.
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Feb 8, 2010 06:31
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Speaking of heads, which sorcerer-king's head did Tithian carry around to get advice from? It wasn't Kalak was it? I can't remember.
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Feb 8, 2010 06:45
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He carried around Sacha and Wynan. They weren't sorcerer kings; they were the two champions who didn't side with Boris. One got cut in half, and the other gun crushed.
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Feb 8, 2010 06:50
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PeterWeller posted:He carried around Sacha and Wynan. They weren't sorcerer kings; they were the two champions who didn't side with Boris. One got cut in half, and the other gun crushed. That's right. "Sorcerer-King", "Champion"... six of one, half dozen of the other.
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Feb 8, 2010 07:45
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I was leafing through the Terrors of the Desert Monstrous Compendium today and came across this little tidbit: Often small creatures are kept or allowed to live in Athasian households in exchange for some form of comfort or service the creature provides. These “pets” are considered neither cute nor cuddly as no such creature may be found anywhere on Athas. loving awesome.
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Feb 8, 2010 15:40
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Since we know for certain that eladrin and tieflings are both in, I wonder how they'll be fit onto Athas. Dragonborn had it easy with the dray, but there's less obvious space for these two.
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Feb 8, 2010 19:05
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I wonder if the Eladrin won't just be worked into the general Elf population. Oddly enough, their stat bonuses are more in line with the 2E DS Elves. If they take the wandering part to reflect a race of cast out refugees, then the Eladrin can just be the Elves with a stronger link to their ancestral home. I have no idea what the Tieflings' story will be.
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Feb 8, 2010 19:17
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I hope they give eladrin their own Athasian niche, besides "prancing blink elves". I appreciate that being (basically) the conceptual lineage of the eladrin, but for a setting like Dark Sun, you can go in far different directions for more interesting results. That said, if they do turn out to be what amounts to elves with different powers and an int bonus, I won't be heartbroken. Squizzle fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Feb 8, 2010 |
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Feb 8, 2010 20:31
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PeterWeller posted:I have no idea what the Tieflings' story will be. Call me crazy but isn't "some ambitious magic guys really wanted to be powerful as heck and did some crazy poo poo that visibly tainted them and all of their descendants forever" pretty much Dark Sun as gently caress the way it is?
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Feb 8, 2010 22:03
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Angry Diplomat posted:Call me crazy but isn't "some ambitious magic guys really wanted to be powerful as heck and did some crazy poo poo that visibly tainted them and all of their descendants forever" pretty much Dark Sun as gently caress the way it is? Yeah but devils aren't.
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Feb 8, 2010 22:04
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This is 4E brother. They got horns and tails and they're hard to burn. That could as easily mean "a bunch of clever druids who like to turn into horned lizards" as "guys with devil blood" Basically what I'm saying is all you have to do is redact any references to devils and tieflings basically fit already. Explain the horns some other way - a side effect from something - and you're set, right? Simplifying a lot here but you get what I mean 
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Feb 8, 2010 22:05
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They could just explain it with "Dark Sun is metal as hell, satanoids are metal as hell, therefore Athas has tieflings", and I'd accept it.
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Feb 8, 2010 22:35
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Squizzle posted:They could just explain it with "Dark Sun is metal as hell, satanoids are metal as hell, therefore Athas has tieflings", and I'd accept it. Satanoids. I like that.
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Feb 8, 2010 22:39
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Feb 8, 2010 22:41
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if you've already got a history where halflings transformed themselves into various races then why would you ever have any problem introducing a new race? All you've got to say is whoops, turns out some halflings turned themselves into that too. Nobody ever noticed because people don't notice poo poo around here, they are too busy trying not to die.
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Feb 8, 2010 22:54
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Liesmith posted:if you've already got a history where halflings transformed themselves into various races then why would you ever have any problem introducing a new race? All you've got to say is whoops, turns out some halflings turned themselves into that too. Nobody ever noticed because people don't notice poo poo around here, they are too busy trying not to die. Because that history sucks--or, more accurately, embracing any explicit history for Athas is a terrible idea. Athas is small in geography, lacking in history, and has no hope for the uncertain future beyond what the PCs provide. It's a small known world. Adding Lifewizard Wee Folk to it undermines a lot of (what I enjoy about) the Dark Sun milieu.
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Feb 8, 2010 23:12
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Squizzle posted:Because that history sucks--or, more accurately, embracing any explicit history for Athas is a terrible idea. Athas is small in geography, lacking in history, and has no hope for the uncertain future beyond what the PCs provide. It's a small known world. Adding Lifewizard Wee Folk to it undermines a lot of (what I enjoy about) the Dark Sun milieu. That's why as a DM when people aask to know more you say welp, that happened thousands of years ago in barely remembered myths. The same peopel who believe that believe the world wasn't always a hellhole, and they die for being stupid. all the recent history was destroyed by the sorcerer kings, halflings can't do that poo poo anymore and probably never could, get back to not dying in the desert actually gently caress it if people ask why there are tieflings when there are no demons tell them that their characters don't give a poo poo about that and if they ask again their water will stop being drinkable Liesmith fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 8, 2010 |
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Feb 8, 2010 23:16
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Angry Diplomat posted:Call me crazy but isn't "some ambitious magic guys really wanted to be powerful as heck and did some crazy poo poo that visibly tainted them and all of their descendants forever" pretty much Dark Sun as gently caress the way it is? You're crazy, man. Nah, you're right. That's DSun on the nose. They could be descendants of veterans of the Cleansing Wars or some such poo poo. But the problem Eladrin and Tieflings bring up, and why (aside from the fact that we'll know for sure in six months) I am loathe to imagine explanations for them is that it requires delving into Athas's history and making things about it explicit. That was the biggest mistake of the Prism Pentad and revised box. If you read "The Wanderer's Journal", there's this evocative section about how history is a mystery thanks to limited literacy and the Sorcerer Kings' propaganda that gets you really amped as a DM to take the world and run with it. Then, in the "Wanderer's Chronicle", the history section is your standard timeline of important events from every other campaign book ever. quote:actually gently caress it if people ask why there are tieflings when there are no demons tell them that their characters don't give a poo poo about that and if they ask again their water will stop being drinkable Better yet, tell them that maybe they're on to something. Maybe there were demons at some point, and if there were demons, maybe there were gods. Maybe solving the mystery of the tieflings' demonic blood will lead you towards discovering the truth behind the lack of divine power on Athas. That's why leaving Athas's history vague was so great in the first place. The questions it raised created heaps of adventure hooks.
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Feb 8, 2010 23:29
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PeterWeller posted:Better yet, tell them that maybe they're on to something. Maybe there were demons at some point, and if there were demons, maybe there were gods. Maybe solving the mystery of the tieflings' demonic blood will lead you towards discovering the truth behind the lack of divine power on Athas. Then when they're powerful enough tell them that the gods were all locked in the Hollow during the Cleansing Wars, and that if they can find a way to release them they'll kill all the sorcerer-kings and restore Athas to the Green Age. Then they give their lives fighting the dragon at the heart of Ur Draxa to use the dark lens to tear a hole into that prison dimension, and as their vision fades to black and their souls get pulled into the Grey, the last thing they see is Rajaat step out to finish what he started. Oops. 
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Feb 8, 2010 23:35
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Liesmith posted:actually gently caress it if people ask why there are tieflings when there are no demons tell them that their characters don't give a poo poo about that and if they ask again their water will stop being drinkable "We've got half elves, half dwarves, and half giants. I don't know what that says to you, but it tells me that people will gently caress anything that moves." "Also, the wastes."
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Feb 9, 2010 01:03
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You're an illiterate living in a world of want and despair surrounded by fit people wearing as little as they can get away with. What else are you going to do for fun?
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Feb 9, 2010 01:08
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My first game of new Dark Sun will be punctuated with the strains of Dueling Banjos against a howling windstorm.
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Feb 9, 2010 01:54
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the "leather and bare skin" aesthetic in dark sun REALLY irrationally pisses me off. people don't loving wear leather in the desert! it's a terrible idea! and an even worse idea is showing a lot of skin!!
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Feb 9, 2010 05:30
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Riidi WW posted:the "leather and bare skin" aesthetic in dark sun REALLY irrationally pisses me off. people don't loving wear leather in the desert! it's a terrible idea! and an even worse idea is showing a lot of skin!! Yeah, but why would fantasy art feature anyone in practical clothing?
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Feb 9, 2010 05:43
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I live in California near the desert and people show a lot of skin, looks like your story is full of holes Riidi
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Feb 9, 2010 05:44
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Riidi WW posted:the "leather and bare skin" aesthetic in dark sun REALLY irrationally pisses me off. people don't loving wear leather in the desert! it's a terrible idea! and an even worse idea is showing a lot of skin!! I don't mind it because Brom did most of it.
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Feb 9, 2010 06:37
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Riidi WW posted:the "leather and bare skin" aesthetic in dark sun REALLY irrationally pisses me off. people don't loving wear leather in the desert! it's a terrible idea! and an even worse idea is showing a lot of skin!! If Mad Max taught us anything it's that leather is the perfect post-apocalyptic outerwear.
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Feb 9, 2010 06:48
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Part of the design of Dark Sun has always been twisting the classic D&D races. -Halflings arent fat and happy, they are cannibals that once ruled the world. -Elves arent tree-dwelling hippies, they are marathon-running desert dwellers and thieves. -Humans have mutations. (2e fluff -Dwarves are bald. -Lots of races were exterminated, be glad you got away just bald. Or can we interest you in playing a giant insect... So in that line of thought, I doubt tieflings would be standard devil-spawn. More like the children of Nibenay (all his templars are female, they are keeping that juicy detail). Mingling of dragon blood into the human lines from multiple sorcerer kings over thousands of years, etc. Granted they got away from this line of thinking with the Revised boxed set ("here, play an unchanged birdman that flys around, or play a pterran lizard freak"). But Revised was all about loving with the setting so they could sell it again. ritorix fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Feb 9, 2010 |
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Feb 9, 2010 08:23
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ritorix posted:So in that line of thought, I doubt tieflings would be standard devil-spawn. More like the children of Nibenay (all his templars are female, they are keeping that juicy detail). Mingling of dragon blood into the human lines from multiple sorcerer kings over thousands of years, etc. This is an amazing idea.
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Feb 9, 2010 15:30
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ritorix posted:So in that line of thought, I doubt tieflings would be standard devil-spawn. More like the children of Nibenay (all his templars are female, they are keeping that juicy detail). Mingling of dragon blood into the human lines from multiple sorcerer kings over thousands of years, etc. However, I'm not sure that's the best explanation for Tieflings. I'm not sure the immortal god-kings and -queens of Athas would want heirs that could eventually rise against them. All that being said, I've got no problem with DS Tieflings having the standard D&D Tiefling explanation. The Dark Sun I know has always had a good number of extraplanar visitors thanks to all the Slaad and Vrocks in the video games.
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Feb 9, 2010 22:42
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Undead war beetle: best war machine ever imagined, or best war machine possible to imagine?
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Feb 11, 2010 05:22
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The undead war beetle alone was worth the purchase of Dragon Kings.
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Feb 11, 2010 05:53
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jigokuman posted:The undead war beetle alone was worth the purchase of Dragon Kings. I still don't get why that supplement is named Dragon Kings when it has nothing to do with Dragons or Kings.
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Feb 11, 2010 05:55
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Kerison posted:I still don't get why that supplement is named Dragon Kings when it has nothing to do with Dragons or Kings. Go gently caress yourself that's why, this is old D&D we just called poo poo whatever. jigokuman posted:The undead war beetle alone was worth the purchase of all Dark Sun books combined.
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Feb 11, 2010 05:58
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Come on, man, you have to admit it's a bit of a non sequitur.
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Feb 11, 2010 06:04
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Kerison posted:I still don't get why that supplement is named Dragon Kings when it has nothing to do with Dragons or Kings. The implication was that the players could become dragons, and thus rule like kings over all they see. After all, it was designed to be an epic level handbook before there was even a formal concept for that sort of thing. Edit: Don't forget this was the first time the formal rules and such for advanced beings were ever published. It was pretty  at the time... and still is.
ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Feb 11, 2010 |
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Feb 11, 2010 06:59
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 I forgot about the Wizards section with the rules for Dragon metamorphosis.
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Feb 11, 2010 07:07
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I wanna be a 30th level air cleric/psionicist so I can just be a tornado forever.
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Feb 11, 2010 09:42
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There are a pantsload of epic destinies that are already really appropriate for Athas. Almost all of the primal epic destinies are a variation on "you're a powerful primal spirit/pinnacle of nature", which fits the dragon/avangion/elemental "embody what you do" theme just fine. Almost any martial or arcane epic destiny is usable in any setting that has martial or arcane characters, so that's nothing to worry about. Things like Radiant One (immortality: become a goddamn star) could be used with very little effort, e.g. "I'm the new sun of Athas, move over crappy old sun". Since the "become a dragon" epic destiny is inevitable for Dark Sun 4E, you'll be able to be a dragonborn (dray) dragon sorcerer/Scion of Arkhosia/Dragon King, which has to be pretty rad for people who like dragons. Of all of the extant settings they could have chosen to publish this year, Dark Sun has what I would assert is the most pre-support in place: epic destinies; easy math making possible the inherent bonus system; racial balance allowing half-giants and thri-kreen to be perfectly usable alongside halflings, with racial paragon paths if you want them; encounter budgets making it easy to make Athas brutal, just by throwing level + n encounters instead of on-level ones; disease tracks making the harsh environs easily mechanizable; and I could go on and on but I'm probably the only one still interested in this list. 
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Feb 11, 2010 15:03
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We need a dark sun thing like this  only it says "That's the wasteland for you..." or something.
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Feb 11, 2010 20:22
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