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Bieeardo posted:I remember one sort of Athasian undead, a guardian type I think, would sometimes demand the sacrifice of a PC in return for use of whatever it was guarding or passage through. Turns out they got lonely. No, they're not undead. They're just "magically cursed" living creatures. The Thrax Writeup posted:Habitat/Society: The thrax is an unfortunate creature that can be found anywhere. Since the corpse of a thrax victim is unmistakable, thrax are not common in cities or villages, at least not for long. They usually leave as soon as they discover their curse, or else they are hunted down and wiped out. Outside the villages they lead solitary anguished lives. The thrax remembers what he was like before the change, but he cannot help himself. He is driven to try to survive. At first, the new thrax may even retain his original alignment, perhaps resolving to feed on animals instead of intelligent beings. But the curse continues to work, and after a few months, feeding is the only thing that matters. He also begins to hate those who have not suffered his curse, especially humans and demi-humans. That's the wasteland for you...
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Feb 18, 2010 19:27
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In fact, victims had to survive the attack of a thrax to become one. Early Dark Sun had remarkably few undead monster write-ups. I assume it was part and parcel of the "every undead is unique, or a generic skeleton/zombie" philosophy indicated in the first box. The addition of more specific, flavorful types of undead (while maintaining that there were countless unique undead) is among the few genuine improvements in post-box Dark Sun.
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Feb 18, 2010 19:47
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PeterWeller posted:They're actually two different things you're remembering. That seems to make sense; I probably crossed my wires from Road to Urik when Rikus gets that gem shoved in his chest and has some shadow thing talking to him and the game. Speaking of Road to Urik, its ending pretty much defines 'thats the wasteland for you'; re: Hamanu pretty much killing the entire army and secondary characters personally by turning into a huge lion.
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Feb 18, 2010 20:17
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 Road to Urik is the adventure module. The novel is named The Crimson Legion. I really like how those first two adventures tie in with the Prism Pentad. The Verdant Passage is all set up for Freedom, then RtU sets up TCL. They do a great job of weaving the PCs into the metaplot and making them feel important and useful at the same time. In fact (and as I've mentioned before) the PCs pretty much save the day in both those adventures. The Crimson Legion wouldn't even happen if not for the PCs' exploits in The Road to Urik. The victory Rikus and the other heroes are celebrating at the start is all thanks to the players.
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Feb 18, 2010 20:31
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Whoops, I've got that one too. All my Dark Sun stuff is hazy since I've barely looked at in in over a decade.
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Feb 18, 2010 20:43
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With the same cover art and subject matter, it's easy to confuse them. It doesn't help that the modules have better names too.
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Feb 18, 2010 21:49
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Does anyone know some good novels set in Dark Sun? I've read some Forgotten Realms and some Dragonlance, but Dark Sun looks like it would make an incredibly interesting read.
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Feb 19, 2010 01:59
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-Fish- posted:Does anyone know some good novels set in Dark Sun? I've read some Forgotten Realms and some Dragonlance, but Dark Sun looks like it would make an incredibly interesting read. I don't know that you could really call any of the books "good." The prism Pentad, especially the first couple of books, are really epic in scope and give a decent feel of the wasteland (although the biggest Mary Sue violated all the established caster rules in the setting by the end).
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Feb 19, 2010 02:10
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TheAnomaly posted:(although the biggest Mary Sue violated all the established caster rules in the setting by the end). But she's powered by the sun! Edit: The Prism Pentad is decent enough by D&D novel standards. If you enjoy FR and DL novels, you'll probably enjoy those.
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Feb 19, 2010 04:06
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-Fish- posted:Does anyone know some good novels set in Dark Sun? I've read some Forgotten Realms and some Dragonlance, but Dark Sun looks like it would make an incredibly interesting read. I remember Rise and Fall of a Dragon King being really good, though I don't remember the plot anymore having not read it in over 10 years. I should probably see if I can dig up a copy and reread it.
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Feb 19, 2010 04:12
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PeterWeller posted:But she's powered by the sun! I didn't read those books but defiling the sun to fuel my power would totally be worth doing
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Feb 19, 2010 04:56
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She doesn't do that. But Rajaat did! That's why the sun is dark.
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Feb 19, 2010 05:08
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ManMythLegend posted:I remember Rise and Fall of a Dragon King being really good, though I don't remember the plot anymore having not read it in over 10 years. I should probably see if I can dig up a copy and reread it. This is the only dark sun fiction I've read, and it wasn't bad. It makes that Hamu guy seem like a justified dick and the heroes of the previous books (which I haven't read) look like huge assholes who the world would be better off without, which is the impression I got from people who did read the other books (that the world would be better off without them (the books)).
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Feb 19, 2010 06:06
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drgnvale posted:This is the only dark sun fiction I've read, and it wasn't bad. It makes that Hamu guy seem like a justified dick and the heroes of the previous books (which I haven't read) look like huge assholes who the world would be better off without, which is the impression I got from people who did read the other books (that the world would be better off without them (the books)). HOORAY ME EDIT 
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Feb 19, 2010 11:39
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I remember enjoying the Tribe of One trilogy, but my literary taste back then was nonexistent. I think it was written by a man who played D&D by himself, because the main character is schizophrenic and is a multiclass everything, pretty much.
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Feb 19, 2010 13:29
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For those of you unfamiliar with psurlons, they're people made of worms that are also leeches.Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium Appendix II, Psurlon entry posted:Psurlons are extremely intelligent wormlike humanoids. The psurlons are an advanced race living on the Astral Plane, and are sometimes summoned by evil psionicists who have the power to summon planar creatures. I hated these guys, in the context of Dark Sun when I first encountered them. One of the awesome things about Athas is its very closed cosmology; nothing escapes to Fantasy Space or to go jaunting around other, happier worlds. Psurlons rubbed me the wrong way entirely in that context. But I was looking at them again when I was flipping through for the undead stuff, and I felt like an idiot when I realised that they serve a very specific and arguably very worthwhile purpose for the setting: they're demons.  Or devils, I guess, in the D&D parlance that distinguishes between them.  Although, even as I make that distinction, I hasten to add that they draw more from a swords & sorcery/pulp fantasy tradition of deviltry than that of D&D.Psurlons are a powerful, malevolent entities who were exiled to a strange realm through the folly of their own hubris.  Mystics may summon them from this realm--though at great danger and cost--to negotiate for secret knowledge, or a term of service. Their appetites are fearsome, and they desire as a race a return to the height of their glory. These are definitely the sort of hideous things that wizards in a Conan story would attempt to summon, only made psionic to fit in Dark Sun. And, as an added, genre-appropriate benefit, their origin makes the existence of angel-analogues unnecessary.Now, I wouldn't want to see them imported directly into Dark Sun 4E. Their history is a bit too explicitly detailed, for one thing. If we're going to have creepy weird-fantasy devils for Athas, I think it benefits them and benefits the setting to keep them more essentially inscrutable: maybe they reside in Athas's desolate Astral Sea (or Astral Wastes), but  how they got there. That removes the demonic Fall from Grace (or Glory, in this case), and strips them also of their "defiled the world--but with psionics" aspects; I say that's worth it, for tying them more effectively to the setting as a whole. You still keep the dangerous, knowledgeable danger-worms from beyond, whom power-hungry mystics summon at great cost. And you gain a new layer of D&D-appropriate angel/demon relation, with the usual Dark Sun unsubtle irony (The dwarves have no beards!): the "demons" come from the Astral, and the "angels"--the elemental spirits--come from the Elemental, a hamfisted inversion of the default setting.In conclusion, I used to dislike them, but psurlons are cool now. 
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Feb 19, 2010 15:11
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tendrilsfor20 posted:Yeah, I'm a huge fan of that whole series. Lynn Abbey does a great job with that trilogy. NOTE: It's really weird, books 1, 4 and 5 are the trilogy. Books 2 and 3 of the Chronicles of Athas are just atrocious. Book 3 is the one where a character pays for a meal with a copper piece. I just read the 1st (The Brazen Gambit) and the second (book 4, Cinnabar Shadows) is on it's way (go paperbackswap.com). It wasn't bad at all, especially compared to some stuff I've read. I haven't played Dark Sun and my only knowledge comes from this thread so it was interesting to see how stuff actually pans out. I'll probably get the Tribe of One series after Chronicles 1,4,5.
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Feb 19, 2010 16:51
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enigma105 posted:I'll probably get the Tribe of One series after Chronicles 1,4,5. I never read the Dark Sun novels, except for the first Tribe of One books, which I picked up for a bit under $2 at a used book store. I got through the introduction before I just couldn't tolerate it any more. It's bad prose, bad Dark Sun feel, and detrimentally faithful to game mechanics--again, this is just in the introduction. I'd recommend against it.
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Feb 19, 2010 17:58
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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but when looking for pictures of "dark sun cacti" I found a link to this on the Wizard's website: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/dragon/364/364_campaignclassics.pdf A few 4e hazards from Athas! I assume it's supposed to be accessible as I got the link from google. Enjoy!
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Feb 19, 2010 20:13
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Do any of the artists in here want to cobble together a battle standard for the armies of Urik? I couldn't find a description for what Hammanu's symbol looked like in any of the books so I just made something up based around a lion and some swords. The problem is that I think it looks way too European, and I have no idea how to Dark Sun it up. I would really appreciate it one of you right-brain folks could hook a brother up. Actually, figuring out what the flags/symbols of the city-states look like might be an interesting exercise for the this thread. The only one I could find described was Kalak's symbol, not even Free Tyr got one fleshed out.
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Feb 19, 2010 21:00
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ManMythLegend posted:Do any of the artists in here want to cobble together a battle standard for the armies of Urik? The first thing I thought of was rocking the Lion of Judah in there somehow.
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Feb 19, 2010 21:10
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Gomi posted:The first thing I thought of was rocking the Lion of Judah in there somehow. That's sort of what I did. Here's what I have right now: .jpg) I must say that the Jerusalem verison is less European looking though. I might have to switch to that.
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Feb 19, 2010 21:15
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Iron like a lion in Urik  :human being:
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Feb 19, 2010 21:31
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Maybe the flags shouldn't even be rectangular. What about a pennant shape or vertical alignment?
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Feb 19, 2010 22:10
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BetterWeirdthanDead posted:Maybe the flags shouldn't even be rectangular. What about a pennant shape or vertical alignment? They should be kind of tattered too. What level of craftsmanship is available in Athas?
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Feb 19, 2010 22:18
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Gr3y posted:They should be kind of tattered too. What level of craftsmanship is available in Athas? At the very least, Athasian cities have cotton and kenaf (sackcloth) textiles, since both are tolerant crops. Weaving and looming is rather low-tech and freemen clothiers are probably quite good at what they do. Cloth would be available in all sorts of patterns, like Ghanan kente cloth. Red and yellow dyes are readily available.
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Feb 19, 2010 22:26
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I imagine that there would be multiple flags for different functions. Since Athas is resource-poor, I have to imagine that most dye is expensive and rare. Moreover, most pigment will get bleached by the sun over time; Athas seems like it'd be especially vulnerable to that. I imagine that each city-state would have a basic standard: the lion for Urik, as an example. This standard would be incorporated into banners, pennants, etc., but rarely would there be a standard flag-design. The closest thing would be some sort of feather-adorned, richly-dyed piece hung in some section of a sorcerer-king's palace shielded from the sun and sand, illuminated by flaming braziers. Common citizens might see the lion incorporated into mosaics around the city-state, or branded into the sides of animals, slaves, and wood structures. For something to carry into battle, the armies of the city-state could construct animal-hide or canvas banners, again adorned with feathers and beads instead of spending the money on dyes, with the lion branded into it. Just thinking out loud. ^^Edit: Red and yellow dyes would be readily available? That's pretty neat to know.
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Feb 19, 2010 22:27
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Squizzle posted:Since Athas is resource-poor, I have to imagine that most dye is expensive and rare. Safflower is a salt-tolerant and ancient crop (currently still produced in Ethiopia, Kazakhstan, and Australia, among others) that can be used to produce "yellow, mustard, khaki, olive green or even red" (Wiki).
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Feb 19, 2010 22:29
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Feb 19, 2010 22:32
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Yeah, I have a couple pages of Gygaxian naturalism-style research on the climate and saltiness of an Athas-style Dying Earth because I'm enough of a nerd to want to know what color dyes are available, what the alcohols are made from, and what their diets are like. For example, I didn't know anything about the herby Roselle plant, but Athasians would make a sweet tea out of it, eat it like spinach, and use it in medicine (to heal wounds, to treat hypertension, as a diuretic, etc.).
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Feb 19, 2010 22:42
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In case anyone is interested in that sort of thing, here is a list of salt tolerant crops. Feel free to prune the list down. I went through the list trying to remove temperature-sensitive crops and the like, but I'm not a botanist or a farmer and I don't care about super-accuracy. Tolerant Crops: barley, rapeseed, cotton, guar, kenaf, millet, oats, rye, sugar beet, wheat, asparagus, date palm Moderately Tolerant Crops: roselle, safflower, sorghum, soybean, sunflower, clover, artichoke, lima bean, red beet, cowpea, purslane, zucchini, coconut, fig, guava, jambolan plum, jujube, olive
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Feb 19, 2010 23:05
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Note that on Athas, local breeds of most of these would be psionic and/or carnivorous.
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Feb 19, 2010 23:09
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Squizzle posted:Note that on Athas, local breeds of most of these would be psionic and/or carnivorous. Yes there is that to take into account!
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Feb 19, 2010 23:10
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Kerison posted:In case anyone is interested in that sort of thing, here is a list of salt tolerant crops. Feel free to prune the list down. I went through the list trying to remove temperature-sensitive crops and the like, but I'm not a botanist or a farmer and I don't care about super-accuracy. Squizzle posted:Note that on Athas, local breeds of most of these would be psionic and/or carnivorous. 
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Feb 19, 2010 23:10
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Oh and that list doesn't include tasty, tasty opuntia fruits. Good luck harvesting them from an Athasian cactus, though. Kerison fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Feb 19, 2010 |
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Feb 19, 2010 23:25
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Kerison posted:Tolerant Crops: rapeseed Squizzle posted:Note that on Athas, local breeds of most of these would be psionic and/or carnivorous. This is a Grognards.txt post waiting to happen.
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Feb 19, 2010 23:36
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Bieeardo posted:This is a Grognards.txt post waiting to happen. Why would you go down this road. E: that's the wasteland for you...
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Feb 19, 2010 23:38
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ManMythLegend posted:That's sort of what I did. Here's what I have right now: a lion's head with a black mane representing the darkened sun would be cool and is what I thought of when I read your description on just a red background, I think the yellow slash is too European EDIT: like this, but black, red background, and a lion head for the center Liesmith fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Feb 19, 2010 |
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Feb 19, 2010 23:45
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Urik2.0: I'm definitely liking it better than the old one, but if someone can do better I would love it. Black and gold were important colors for two reasons: 1) Hammanu's lion form was described as black and gold and 2) Obsidian is Urik's primary resource. Red was just a filler color, but I thought it fit with the strong militaristic bent of the city. The fact that red and yellow could conceivably be easy to obtain on Athas is just gravy.
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Feb 19, 2010 23:48
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Those swords are clearly iron. Obsidian swords look nothing like that. They look like this: Edit: Changed to a better picture. One you might be able to use! Kerison fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Feb 19, 2010 |
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Feb 19, 2010 23:51
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