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18th century agribuisness itt edit: SNIPE 
ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Feb 23, 2010 |
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Feb 23, 2010 04:59
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 22:59 |
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The blue is a mineral-based dye derived from azurite. They are wasting a huge potential resource of valuable copper deposits to make their turbans blue.
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Feb 23, 2010 05:10
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Speleothing posted:The blue is a mineral-based dye derived from azurite. They are wasting a huge potential resource of valuable copper deposits to make their turbans blue. Aside from azurite being toxic, the heat from skin and the open air fades its color.
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Feb 23, 2010 05:23
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Kerison posted:Aside from azurite being toxic, the heat from skin and the open air fades its color. magic color-fast bleach
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Feb 23, 2010 05:40
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Which makes them require more azurite to dye their turbans, leading to a vicious cycle and the downfall of Raam. I think we've got it.
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Feb 23, 2010 09:00
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This whole conversation reminds me of the civilization in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy that collapsed due to a runaway shoe economy. 
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Feb 23, 2010 10:12
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I'm telling you people that it's belgoi-skin suede.
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Feb 23, 2010 13:41
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High ranking templars wear the bells as charm bracelets.
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Feb 24, 2010 04:46
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And on the third day he said let their be the Nibenese flag, and it was ok but still pretty sloppy:
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Feb 24, 2010 07:45
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I like it except for the writing. Writing does not exist in public on Athas. Simply putting the name or motto of the city state on the flag would be seen as an encouragement or enticement to literacy amongst the underclasses and a huge breach of the social order.
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Feb 24, 2010 08:53
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On second thought, you're right. I've been laboring under the assumtion all of these years that reading was permitted amung the nobility and upper-upper class. After rereading some stuff though you're right, it's forbidden for everyone. My bust. Anyway, here is an updated version: 
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Feb 24, 2010 16:46
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I'm pretty sure nobles are allowed to read and write, but they're the only group outside the templar caste that can. Technically, the merchants aren't allowed to be literate, but they kind of have to be because of the record keeping necessary to run a large trading dynasty. This is sometimes used by the templars as an excuse to crack down on a trading house they are displeased with, but not too often because the cities need the merchants if they are to survive.
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Feb 24, 2010 17:37
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roleplay as an illiterate mentat who is also the founder of a trading dynasty
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Feb 24, 2010 18:24
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He lost it when his chief rival hired a powerful psion to steal his trade secrets.
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Feb 24, 2010 18:27
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Yeah, templars and the nobility are permitted literacy while merchants are only allowed ciphers for the keeping of accounts.
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Feb 24, 2010 18:28
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The confusion comes when you start talking about Merchant Houses as opposed to just merchants. I was under the impression that most of the Houses were also noble families and thus could conduct written business with each other unlike just your regular free man tradesman with a shop somewhere. The way I see it just because literacy is outlawed doesn't mean you wouldn't see words displayed prominently. Especially in official areas like on government buildings and such. A slave might not be able to read, but he may be able to recognize the string of symbols that means "Nibenay" or "Urik". Also Nibenay in particular might have a different relationship with the written word then most other city states. The Shadow King actually keeps a legion of "scholar slaves" locked in his basement that are not only literate, but also given access to ancient documents to read, translate, and write about for various and sundry sinister purposes. I'm not saying he's going to start a Book-It program, but I don't think it would be out of the question to see his name/city name/nick name on official city stuff like flags.
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Feb 24, 2010 19:03
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From The Wanderer's Journal, original boxed set, pp. 13-17:The Templars posted:Templars are the guardians of reading and writing. Because knowledge is power, and the most efficient way of passing on knowledge is through writing, no one but templars and nobles are permitted to read and write. One of the most sacred duties of the templar bureaucracy is to prevent knowledge of this art from spreading beyond their own ranks and that of the nobility. Most kings have authorized them to execute on the spot anyone else demonstrating knowledge of these critical skills. The Nobility posted:Like the templars, the nobles are permitted to read and write, and they are usually equally vigilant about protecting this critical secret. The Freemen posted:But if a freeman cannot pay his debts, exhibits knowledge of reading, writing, or magic, or undertakes some other forbidden activity, he is judged to be in violation of the king's edicts. The templars have the right to (and almost certainly will) seize him and sell him into slavery. This practice is a source of considerable income to many templars. Merchants posted:Technically, merchants are not permitted to read or write, but they are allowed to keep accounts. I should note that most houses have highly developed methods of "keeping accounts." For all practical purposes, most merchants can both read and write in the secret language of their houses. Not surprisingly, jealous templars spend a considerable amount of energy trying to prove to the king that the keeping of accounts is, in fact, a form of reading and writing. Slaves, Artists posted:In most cities, it is common practice to secretly teach valued [artist] slaves the art of reading and writing, so that they may read the words of the masters and record their own observations for owner's next of kin (this is how I came by the art myself). For the artists, there is only one drawback to this privilege: popularity is a fickle thing, and most artists fall out of favor within a few years of their success.
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Feb 24, 2010 19:07
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You know, for the flag project, Veilied Alliance might be useful. Its breakdown of the Alliance in various city-states also includes miniature "CIA Fact Book"-type profiles of each of the original boxed set's seven city-states. One of the items: emblems. Urik's, for instance, are all...Hamanu! His face, him "in battle dress", etc.
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Feb 24, 2010 20:50
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Squizzle posted:You know, for the flag project, Veilied Alliance might be useful. Its breakdown of the Alliance in various city-states also includes miniature "CIA Fact Book"-type profiles of each of the original boxed set's seven city-states. One of the items: emblems. Urik's, for instance, are all...Hamanu! His face, him "in battle dress", etc. I wish you had brought this up a week ago.
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Feb 24, 2010 20:57
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ManMythLegend posted:I wish you had brought this up a week ago. Contrary to all evidence here, I don't have all of Dark Sun memorised, and I don't do regular re-reads of Dark Sun books. But, yeah, sorry about that timing. 
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Feb 24, 2010 21:06
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I don't know what happened to my supplements. All I have left are the two boxes and the first cycle of adventure modules. 
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Feb 24, 2010 21:27
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I stole them, in the dead of night.
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Feb 24, 2010 21:34
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You motherfucker!
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Feb 24, 2010 21:35
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So what you're saying is that you have both, at one time or another, owned and read various books. An act contrary to our God-King's laws, and forbidden to all freemen?
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Feb 24, 2010 21:37
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I don't get Dark Sun. The concept of post apocalyptic fantasy is intriguing in itself, and a lot of the lore is pretty neat. But DS seems to pretty much be all these horrible grognardy elements of past editions wrapped up in one setting. I mean, the whole planet is pretty much the poster-child of a 2E-style deathtrap, where the players aren't heroes, or even in any way heroic, just poor mooks trying to avoid arbitrarily dying. And muls manage to make the half-orc rape baby backstory look downright pleasant. I guess its because it was before my time.
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Feb 24, 2010 21:49
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Der Waffle Mous posted:I mean, the whole planet is pretty much the poster-child of a 2E-style deathtrap, where the players aren't heroes, or even in any way heroic, just poor mooks trying to avoid arbitrarily dying. And muls manage to make the half-orc rape baby backstory look downright pleasant. I'd contest this with an argument that the older editions of Dark Sun made themselves: if the world is so unremittingly harsh that most people only give a poo poo about survival and the bad guys are mostly running the show, doesn't that just provide greater opportunities for heroism and make a character who performs heroic deeds stand out even more? The notion has never been that heroism, changing the status quo, or carving out your own kingdom is impossible, it's simply very difficult. If you think player characters dealing with greater environmental and social adversity is equitable to Tomb of Horrors, I dunno what to say. A good story in Dark Sun is about the destruction and renewal of people's hope, not their physical body. I think some people conflate the notion reinforced repeatedly in 3E and 4E that player characters are special people for better or worse with the notion that player characters should always succeed at everything and nobody should ever die. EDIT: How do you feel about Dark Heresy and the other Warhammer RPG lines?
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Feb 24, 2010 22:08
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Read "A Princess of Mars" and set your brain to the first time you watched Star Wars. It'll make more sense then.
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Feb 24, 2010 22:18
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Because the PCs are extraordinary people. They can change the world. (And it's not post-apocalyptic, it's dying earth. Semantics!  )
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Feb 24, 2010 22:26
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ManMythLegend posted:So what you're saying is that you have both, at one time or another, owned and read various books. An act contrary to our God-King's laws, and forbidden to all freemen? Didn't you notice my blue turban. I am a high templar of Raam. quote:I don't get Dark Sun. But the players are heroic. It's a world where the bad guys won a long time ago. Any attempt to break their control or eke out a more pleasant existence is an act of heroism. Dark Sun is great because even the most trivial act of heroism is a great challenge and something to be honored. If you play it as "survive this horrid shithole for as long as you can", you're doing it wrong. The campaign is more, "you're the only hope left, and the whole world is against you."
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Feb 24, 2010 22:26
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PeterWeller posted:The campaign is more, "you're the only hope left, and the whole world is against you." If you want to run a second game in Dark Sun, especially if the first group of characters made it out of Heroic tier, let alone into Epic, you'll basically need to rewind everything to the starting conditions again. Basically imagine it like Dragonlance if Dragonlance didn't suck and PCs were the actual important people instead of their crappy Expanded Universe knock-offs. The party gets to decide what happens to the world instead of going on a sightseeing tour through other people's accomplishments and NPCs.
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Feb 24, 2010 22:41
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Norglyfe is correct. To see what he's talking about, one just needs to read the Revised Boxed Set. After the heroes of the Pentad saved the world, it was no longer a world you wanted to adventure in.
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Feb 24, 2010 22:43
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But you could totally go surfing so long as a tentacled shark didn't harsh on your waves!
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Feb 24, 2010 22:47
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I'd contest this with an argument that the older editions of Dark Sun made themselves: if the world is so unremittingly harsh that most people only give a poo poo about survival and the bad guys are mostly running the show, doesn't that just provide greater opportunities for heroism and make a character who performs heroic deeds stand out even more? The notion has never been that heroism, changing the status quo, or carving out your own kingdom is impossible, it's simply very difficult. If you think player characters dealing with greater environmental and social adversity is equitable to Tomb of Horrors, I dunno what to say. A good story in Dark Sun is about the destruction and renewal of people's hope, not their physical body. It doesn't help that when something like this happened in canon, it apparently ruined the setting. Edit: Know what? ignore that poo poo. You guys are starting to sell me on this now. quote:EDIT: How do you feel about Dark Heresy and the other Warhammer RPG lines? System-wise, I found they handled the whole "incredibly deadly" thing much more gracefully than D&D ever did. As far as setting goes, though, Dark Heresy is about as grimdark. But the WH40k universe is huge, and it really never lets go of the theme that you're doing all these horrible things for the good of humanity. Corruption aside, WFRP isn't too different from a standard fantasy setting except with added racism. The big thing for me, though, is that both of those also have a sense of humor to go with the darkness.
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Feb 24, 2010 22:59
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Actually, with the conclusion of the first 4e Adventure path, "Scales of War," the official party line seems to be that a party of level 30 characters who ascend to their Epic Destiny will fundamentally change the world. For Example (Scales of War ending spoiler): After the PCs kill Tiamat, Bahamut takes them on a tour and shows them that they haven't just killed the Goddess, they've actually KILLED Greed, Envy, and Treachery. Misers give away their extra gold, People stop being jealous of their siblings, etc. It's kinda weird.
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Feb 24, 2010 23:00
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BetterWeirdthanDead posted:But you could totally go surfing so long as a tentacled shark didn't harsh on your waves! My favorite thing about Mind Lords of the Last Sea was the part about what happens when the characters see their first rain storm. They ended up codifying that an abundance of fresh, cool, water gently falling from the sky would mesmerize them and they would just stand their staring at and needed to make a save to move along. And since if you're mostly naked, like Dark Sun characters tend to be, and stand out in the rain for long enough you'll catch a cold so they then made up rules for having a cold.
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Feb 24, 2010 23:06
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NorgLyle posted:Dark Sun is very much a one generation campaign world. Your PCs at the end of the campaign don't retire and open a bar someplace and then fifteen years later in another village a few hundred miles away you start a new campaign set in the same universe that the first PCs adventured around in (for one thing the world is tiny). The fact that there were PCs before changes Dark Sun too much for it to continue being Dark Sun. I was under the impression that it was one of those Forgotten Realms-style metaplot run monstrosities. The novels and the fact that I've only seen it played like that didn't help that misconception. Muls still bug the hell out of me, though
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Feb 24, 2010 23:19
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Muls still bug the hell out of me, though Why? They fit the setting perfectly, origin and all.
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Feb 24, 2010 23:20
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ManMythLegend posted:Why? They fit the setting perfectly, origin and all. Eh, just a personal peeve. They take a trope from the Half Orcs that I've never been particularly fond of and make it several times worse. Well, at least they're not fetishized. yet
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Feb 24, 2010 23:32
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Eh, just a personal peeve. As far as I know muls predated half-orcs by quite a bit.
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Feb 24, 2010 23:33
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ManMythLegend posted:As far as I know muls predated half-orcs by quite a bit. Older than 1st edition?
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Feb 24, 2010 23:38
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