The Dark Sun Own Zone (56k Likes Dragonlance)

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PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

We need a Brom'd out :ughh:

for when Life Shaping is brought up.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 02:36

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 05:50

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

Palate cleanser:

# ? Mar 2, 2010 02:38

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

The belgoi stood watch as the dim sun set. The caravaneers had tried to take his skin before, and each time they left empty-headed, brains addled by his bell and left to drain on his couch of thorns. They would try again that night, and that night they would have no more use for turbans. More would come: that was the way of the wastes.

I just remembered an exchange I had with a friend when the original DS box came out. I described to him the elven 'mating hunt', where a young elf ritually stalks and kidnaps his intended from another tribe. He thought this was a fine idea, and borrowed the Wanderer's Journal for the night.

The next day at school, he handed the book back and huffily said, "You didn't tell me that the girl had the right to kill the guy if she didn't want him!" I always thought that was the best part.

That and the way elves didn't name their children until the tykes had learned to run. They got epithets like 'flop ears' and whatnot, but with things like tembo and kreen actively seeking them out as delicacies, it just wasn't worth getting attached until they could keep up on their own.

Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Mar 2, 2010

# ? Mar 2, 2010 04:01

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

Bieeardo posted:

That and the way elves didn't name their children until the tykes had learned to run. They got epithets like 'flop ears' and whatnot, but with things like tembo and kreen actively seeking them out as delicacies, it just wasn't worth getting attached until they could keep up on their own.

Nowadays, that reminds me of Death Without Weeping. :smith:

# ? Mar 2, 2010 04:25

Tindalos: May 1, 2008

Saragar always bugged me, so much bullshit, but such an evocative name.

If my players ever visit there, I'm going to up the salt content of the "sea", making it a brine lake, and far more deadly.

As for the mind lords.

Aboleths.

Psionic fish-horrors who enslave other races, who need to stay in salt water to survive... Thus explaining why they've never left.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 04:47

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

"Wait, we found a body of water large enough to support a population of fish?"
"Yeah, but they're evil psychic mind control fish."
"Well, that's the wasteland for you."

# ? Mar 2, 2010 08:17

Tindalos: May 1, 2008

PeterWeller posted:

"Wait, we found a body of water large enough to support a population of fish?"
"Yeah, but they're evil psychic mind control fish."
"Well, that's the wasteland for you."

The beautiful thing is that this is still less crazy than the official last sea which is a body of water large enough to support a population of psionic dolphins, giant eels, lizardmen, jellyfish, sharks, and psionic squid-shark hybrids named squarks.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 08:23

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 08:24

Kerison: Apr 9, 2004; by angerbot

The last body of water in a Dying Earth wasteland would be so overwhelmingly salty as to choke all possible life out of existence.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 08:35

Pieces of Peace: Jul 8, 2006; Hazardous in small doses.

Kerison posted:

The last body of water in a Dying Earth wasteland would be so overwhelmingly salty as to choke all possible life out of existence.

Except aboleths, maybe some krakens, and every other really good horrendous aquatic monster. That's the wastelands for you...

# ? Mar 2, 2010 08:48

jigokuman: Aug 28, 2002; Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.

I'm a BELL-goi. Get it?
_____________/

# ? Mar 2, 2010 09:24

Sargeant Biffalot: Nov 24, 2006

Tindalos posted:

Saragar always bugged me, so much bullshit, but such an evocative name.

If my players ever visit there, I'm going to up the salt content of the "sea", making it a brine lake, and far more deadly.

As for the mind lords.

Aboleths.

Psionic fish-horrors who enslave other races, who need to stay in salt water to survive... Thus explaining why they've never left.

This is fantastic. Also what's this space halfling bullshit, were there like, spelljamming halflings hanging around in Athas's crystal sphere performing dangerous experiments on the sun?

# ? Mar 2, 2010 09:30

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

Tindalos posted:

Saragar always bugged me, so much bullshit, but such an evocative name.

If my players ever visit there, I'm going to up the salt content of the "sea", making it a brine lake, and far more deadly.

As for the mind lords.

Aboleths.

Psionic fish-horrors who enslave other races, who need to stay in salt water to survive... Thus explaining why they've never left.

One of the great things about early-only Dark Sun is that it lays down some intense mood, but at best a detailed sketch of the practical realities. You have to adapt it to your own group. It's almost necessary to make some from-larger-D&D imports, as well, because most people hearing "Let's play D&D...under the dark sun of Athas!" expect the first part to shape the experience more than they do the second.

I really do think that one of the ways you make Athas your own (or, more accurately, your group's) is through your selection of what base-D&D things you insert. Someone earlier in the thread was saying that for him, demons haunting the wastes is perfectly acceptable; his view of Dark Sun was shaped, he said, largely by the computer games. For me, I think beholders belong on Athas. It's something completely irrational, that is a matter of personal conviction for me. Aboleths are an awesome choice as well--I suppose most of the Far Realm-type things are easily compatible.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 15:46

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Sargeant Biffalot posted:

This is fantastic. Also what's this space halfling bullshit, were there like, spelljamming halflings hanging around in Athas's crystal sphere performing dangerous experiments on the sun?

In an interview one of the developers (I don't remember when or who) said that when they wrote down the history of Athas one of the things on there was that the ancient halflings had managed to life-shape some sort of space pod and launch it. After a millennia or so the space-halflings sent one back to Athas to see what was up. Supposedly one of the craters on the map is from this space pod crashing. This was all going to be important to an adventure that involved more space-halflings trying to actually land on Athas instead of just becoming a meteor but then 3.0 happened.

After reading it, I was actually thankful for 3.0 for once.

ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Mar 2, 2010

# ? Mar 2, 2010 16:02

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

ManMythLegend posted:

In an interview one of the developers (I don't remember when or who) said that when they wrote done the history of Athas one of the things on there was that the ancient halflings had managed to life-shape some sort of space pod and launch it. After a millennia or so the space-halflings sent one back to Athas to see what was up. Supposedly one of the craters on the map is from this space pod crashing. This was all going to be important to an adventure that involved more space-halflings trying to actually land on Athas instead of just becoming a meteor but then 3.0 happened.

After reading it once I was actually thankful for 3.0 for once.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 16:14

Quantumfate: Feb 17, 2009; Angered & displeased, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, insulted & cursed him with rude, harsh words.

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him:

"Motherfucker I will -end- you"

I dunno, I always liked the idea of the last sea. The application of it was poo poo, but the idea of a hidden valley far out of reach that contains actual water doesn't seem so antithetical to the dying earth idea. I also kind of like the idea that it's ruled with an iron fist by tyrannical and insane psions, rather than being ruled with an iron fist by tyrannical and insane sorcerer-kings.
:shobon:

# ? Mar 2, 2010 16:52

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Squizzle posted:

I really do think that one of the ways you make Athas your own (or, more accurately, your group's) is through your selection of what base-D&D things you insert. Someone earlier in the thread was saying that for him, demons haunting the wastes is perfectly acceptable; his view of Dark Sun was shaped, he said, largely by the computer games. For me, I think beholders belong on Athas. It's something completely irrational, that is a matter of personal conviction for me. Aboleths are an awesome choice as well--I suppose most of the Far Realm-type things are easily compatible.

Yeah, that was me. Really, Shattered Lands is neat for the amount of not Dark Sun specific monsters it contains. There weren't any gith, belgoi, braxats, tembos, etc. The game was filled with sligs, bulettes, wyverns, and slaads (as well as the aforementioned demons). But despite that, the game still carried the Dark Sun ambiance. Ironically, the sequel, Wake of the Ravager went out of its way to include Dark Sun specific monsters but still lacked the Dark Sun feel (mainly because it was a series of dungeon crawls and exploring a jungle).

So I totally agree with Squizzle here. Don't hesitate the put your favorite thing from the MM into your Dark Sun campaign.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 18:30

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Quantumfate posted:

I dunno, I always liked the idea of the last sea. The application of it was poo poo, but the idea of a hidden valley far out of reach that contains actual water doesn't seem so antithetical to the dying earth idea. I also kind of like the idea that it's ruled with an iron fist by tyrannical and insane psions, rather than being ruled with an iron fist by tyrannical and insane sorcerer-kings.

So do I.

Don't say anything or I'll lose my thread-cred.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 19:25

Quantumfate: Feb 17, 2009; Angered & displeased, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, insulted & cursed him with rude, harsh words.

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him:

"Motherfucker I will -end- you"

I'm not saying the idea of making the last sea a brine filled death-trap is bad mind you, and I think the aboleth idea is really cool. Just personally i prefer the idea that it actually is a green refuge. The idea of it existing and being far away just really rings true with a dying earth feel to me. Plus I love the idea that the Psion lords are essentially more insane sorcerer kings, and there's a lot you can do with that. Showing that psionics isn't always better than magic, and that greener pastures aren't always better.

Again though, application was pretty lovely.

Speaking of psionics though, The will and the way was one of my favorite supplements, I love how it handled psionics, and I jsut wish it had gone on a bit more about psionic hermits and hermitages (are there any books that go more into this?). The bit on meditation was really cool though. Also the uncarnate paragon path is totally a mind-lord in the making. I know psionics always get a bad reputation, but I've always loved them for dark sun, and I hope they make psionics as prominent in the 4e revamp.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 19:56

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

Ok, so I found the source of all this space-halfling mumbo-jumbo. The following are some choice excerpts from an interview of Kevin Melka (one of the later designers) by some uber-sperg from Athas.org. It's quite possibly the worst interview ever if you actually want to read it, but there are some intersting tidbits in it:

quote:

Q: Dark Sun as originally planned was intended to change drastically over a determined period. Were there any other future drastic changes (besides Dregoth Ascending) that were being considered for the setting that were to be revealed in game supplements?
It has been interesting for me over the years to hear things like "I heard about *drastic* changes for Dark Sun..." or "TSR did this-or-that" or any number of various assorted rumors or innuendos floating around since Dark Sun's cancellation. It seems that gamers love to spin yarns about what they think they hear somewhere. The truth is the second edition box set of Dark Sun was about all the *drastic* changes the line was going to have when I was asked to be the designer, and I didn't have any in mind for the immediate future. If the line would not have been canceled in the fall of 1996, then 1997 would have had four DS products that were all basically campaign-support in design. There were no plans to drastically change anything that I knew of or proposed.

quote:

Q: What were some other future plans for Dark Sun that never got envisioned?
Another halfling product, a book on the dwarves, and a book on the Order were the other three (of the four products, along with Dregoth) that were part of my official proposals for 1997. Beyond that we poked around the whole Kreen Invasion idea, the mystery of the Messenger, and a product on the Silt Sea to expand the world before DS was canceled.

Q: What were the plans for the Messenger?
With the creation of the lifeshape items and the whole halfling-original-race plotline, we wanted to expand that a bit more to round out that portion of the world . What the Messenger was proposed (from me) to be was a "spaceship" of sorts for three halfings from the Blue Age who escaped the Brown Tide. After the events in Dregoth Ascending the Messenger would soon after crash into Athas and three powerful halflings were supposed to bring back lost life-magic and knowledge back to Athas in hope of rebuilding the world. I think we also toyed with one of the Halflings being a life-bender. That was the basis of the idea.

Q: So, no space halfling invasion?
Ya know, I have no idea where that whole idea came from. I think long ago I may have mentioned the whole Messenger idea to someone, and from there it sprang into some absurd Spelljamming Halflings Invasion Plan 9 from Outer Space - which in my opinion is a bit ridiculous. Every time I used to see that it gave me a chuckle.

That's better then I orginally reported but still terrible.

quote:

Q: Where was the Dregoth plotline heading?
Without giving away the ending (cuz Jon would kill me), Dregoth Ascending was supposed to be a complete product that a DM could use to build upon for their campaign however they wanted going forward. I never had any more immediate plans to use him in the near future beyond the adventure's finale. I'm sure I would have use him again at some point, but I don't remember any specifics.

Q: Why did you pick Dregoth of all the Sorcerer Monarchs to use?
honestly don't remember why specifically, but from a campaign standpoint it seems to make sense since technically he is the Borys replacement. I believe the previous Dregoth product was a hit seller as well, so a follow up was a good move from that standpoint. I do remember that large adventures were hot at the time (i.e. Night Below), so put those all together and that is how things turned out

That's an intersting insight into what was driving TSR's product development.

quote:

Q: There has always been a lot of talk about Lynn Abbey's novel Rise aand Fall of the Dragon King and how it doesnit fit in some ways into the Athas gaming world. Do you know anything about that?
Shortly after I started working on Dark Sun I was asked to read over the final proof of Lynn's book. In truth, I was shocked that there was such a book in the works, since this was the first I had ever heard about it. After reading through it in one night I found several errors in regards to DS history as it had been outlined in previous products and novels. Things like the miscalculation of the Athas calendar, the addition of a previously unknown champion, and a few other things I can't remember at the moment. At the direction of my Creative Director I read through the manuscript and made note of the errors ASAP (I think I finished it in two days), which were then turned over to the book department for review. Despite the haste in which we presented this information, the book department refused to do our corrections. Unfortunately, in the old days the book department didn't care much for what RPG did unless it was Forgotten Realms, and that was only because Ed did both books and products.

Over the years I've heard that Lynn has said she never received any feedback on the novel, and in her defense that was probably the case. From the RPG department's perspective we were always willing to help out with books to keep things all in line, it was just a question of those in charge allowing RPG to have input with books. It was a very unfortunate set of circumstances back then, one I think really hurt our campaigns. For what it's worth, I loved Lynn's book and even incorporated parts of the book into the Timeline of Athas.

Haha, Jesus TSR. It's no wonder you guys failed.

# ? Mar 2, 2010 22:53

ritorix: Jul 22, 2007; Vancian Roulette

Rise and Fall was great. He should have edited all his other crap to support her storyline.

"it was just a question of those in charge allowing RPG to have input with books. It was a very unfortunate set of circumstances back then, one I think really hurt our campaigns."

That says it all, doesnt it. Goddamn.

Dark Sun was always about making the poo poo up as they went along. Brom would draw something awesome and it would be a new monster and get added. Prism Pentad would change everything and drive new books. Who knows what they were smoking when life-shaping got approved.

I was always partial to Dregoth, the sorcerer king too badass to die. The only guy still carrying the flag for Rajaat. As in "kill everything", not "give it all to the goddamn halflings".

ritorix fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Mar 2, 2010

# ? Mar 2, 2010 23:08

Infinite Oregano: Dec 31, 2007; I'm going to make my friends eat infinite oregano and they'll have to do it because the recipe says so!

You know the more I think about that scenario with the three halflings from the long past falling to earth, the more it's starting to sound like Planet of the Apes where eventually one of the halflings is going to find the last sea and shout about how 'they blew it all up'.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 00:18

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

ManMythLegend posted:

Haha, Jesus TSR. It's no wonder you guys failed.

Yup. Book department basically called the shots for the last several years. Paperback tie-ins were so much more cheaper to develop, and such popular sellers compared to RPG source, that it wasn't funny.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 00:36

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

I would honestly have no problem with all of Dark Sun being an elaborate setup for a cheap Planet of the Apes reference.

I am a sucker for cheap Planet of the Apes references.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 00:38

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

Rounding the cape at the end of the first movie, and Elminster's tower is poking up out of the sand.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 01:00

JohnnyCanuck: May 28, 2004; Strong And/Or Free

Like I said wayyyy back on Page 1:

JohnnyCanuck posted:

Not that I can remember any of them now, but I was sure that I'd found hints in some of the modules that Athas was the far future of Aeber-Toril (FR).

Does anyone else remember reading something like this?

# ? Mar 3, 2010 02:23

ManMythLegend: Aug 18, 2003; I don't believe in anything, I'm just here for the violence.

JohnnyCanuck posted:

Like I said wayyyy back on Page 1:

Does anyone else remember reading something like this?

No, and the canon history of Athas laid out in Defilers and Preservers pretty much spells out that it's own world.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 04:34

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

There was a popular rumor that one day TSR would reveal Athas was in fact [Faerun/Krynn/Oerth/The Known World]. It has absolutely no basis in any published material, and all historical information about Athas directly contradicts it.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 04:51

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

More fun along the lines of the interview: a Dark Sun novel author's reports of working with TSR, posted to a Listserv in February of 2000:

Emphasis added in a few places:

Lynn Abbey posted:

I hope I'm doing this right... I hope you'll all bear with me if I'm not.

I got the list address from a list subscriber I met at a convention last
year. Until then, I had no idea that there was still such interest in the
Dark Sun milieu -- or that anyone was reading my Dark Sun novels so
carefully. It's quite an honor; I'm very flattered.

In fairness, though, it has to be said that the three Dark Sun books were
not written during TSR's finest hours. The game department and the book
department communicated primarily by rumor and although I would give the
book department outlines that were roughly one-third the length of the
finished book with the understanding that they would be reviewed and vetted
by the game department, I never once got any feedback. (When it came time
to do DragonKing, I was told that if I could write the novel in next 90
days, there'd be no need to get the gaming department's approval.)

The downside of all that freedom was that if I had a question about how the
milieu worked, I could never get an authoritative answer -- so I would make
things up. Sometimes I'd make things up that I was sure the game department
wouldn't approve -- on the assumption that in disapproving the prose they'd
have to answer my questions. This strategy never failed to backfire.

This is why I'm so honored (and surprised) that some of you seem to have
enjoyed the books. You all have FAR more knowledge of Athas than I have or
had. My reference materials were: the first boxed set, the psionicist's
handbook, Troy Denning's Prism books, the hard-cover Dragon-Kings
supplement, and (for Hamanu's biography) something called "Beyond the Prism
Pentad".

Anyway, as I understand them, at least a few Athasian druids consider it
their purpose and destiny to restore the Athasian wastelands.
Philosophically, they have a lot in common with contemporary back-to-nature
and Earth-First movements. They're not particularly tolerant of folk who
don't agree with them and their standard of "right" and "wrong" is governed
by whether an act will tend to bring a wasted area back to natural life.
The druids I wrote about avoid places like mountains because mountains don't
fit into their world view (because I thought there were a lot of
contradictions in the reference materials that I had regarding the 10+
Guardians into which druidic characters were supposed to evolve).

I tried to imply that Telhami and her "congregation" might be considered
heretical by other druids -- I was hedging my bets because I couldn't get
the game department to answer my questions about druids in general... and I
had questions about druids because I knew from the beginning that I was
going to write about the dilemmas of a "good" man (Pavek) in a stable, but
completely corrupt, society and I felt that druids offered a better contrast
to the templars than any other "priestly" variant class.

(You can probably tell that I'm not much of a gamer. I started playing D&D
before it had numbers and when all the rule books could be fitted into a
rather small brown box. We played head-to-head, like poker, usually one PC
(with 3 NPC assistants) versus the DM. We rolled for hit points, but
everything else was negotiated, and you could never be smarter or wiser than
you actually were. Needless to say, my group stopped gaming about the time
AD&D came on the market... we went on to put together THIEVES' WORLD.)

Hamanu's story was a true roller-coaster ride. The only guidance I got from
TSR was that, when the book ended, no reader should be able to tell what, if
anything, had actually changed in Urik, or Athas-proper, because the milieu
was going to be completely re-constructed. (I was told that the halflings
were coming back in planet-killer space ships to do war with the
Dragon-kings and recreate the Blue era. I thought that had zero potential
for the sort of stories I like to write and my goal, when I began plotting
the book, was to keep Urik safe from the game department and put Hamanu
someplace where they couldn't mess with him.)

In order for Hamanu's story to work, he had to go up against a character who
was more "evil" than he was... and that meant Rajaat, which meant Ur Draxa,
the Gray, and the Black. It also meant trying to reconcile the material in
"Beyond the Prism Pentad" with the Pentad itself... and without TSR's help.
I managed to get a few maps of Ur Draxa, but I didn't know if they were
"official", so I had to flood the place with sludge and fog to create
believable confusion on Hamanu's part (since he should have known how the
city was laid out and how it worked). I never did figure out the Black or
the Gray; fortunately, Hamanu didn't understand them either, so it wasn't
difficult to create believable confusion.

After I finished DragonKing, the game department did answer most of the
questions I'd raised over the preceding years... naturally they answered
them their own way, which contradicted much of what I'd laid out in my three
books. There's is the "official" version, but I like to think that Hamanu's
was the truth... at least as he understood it.

I know the old Lion of Urik would be pleased (but not surprised) to find
that Dark Sun continues to exist on the Internet.

If anyone ever has questions about why things are the way they are in the
books I wrote, I'll be happy to answer them -- I only hope you won't be too
disappointed by my answers.

All for now...

Lynn Abbey

# ? Mar 3, 2010 15:32

Sammyz: Dec 24, 2005

On an inexplicable whim (possibly because I've been so jazzed about DS from this thread) I decided to pop into half price books on the way to the grocery store and discovered that there was a WHOLE SHELF OF 2E DS BOOKS. The guy working there informed me that he'd only put them up an hour ago, and didn't expect them to stay long. I grabbed the basic boxed set (red one...) and Dragon Kings for $9 each. There were others there like Elves of Athas and Will and the Way that I did not buy because I didn't know if they would be :black101:

enough.

What other titles should I go take a look for if they are cheap enough?

I hope they haven't sold since yesterday :ohdear:

# ? Mar 3, 2010 17:36

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

The Complete Gladiator's Handbook. Will and the Way was useful for more psi powers and guidelines for developing 'em, but it won't be if you're looking for inspiration for 4E.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 18:01

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

I'm not the best one to ask about published adventures. All of the below are based on my own personal tastes:

Don't Miss

TSR 2400 - original boxed set
TSR 2408 - Dragon Kings

Generally Excellent

TSR 2404 - Slave Tribes
TSR 2407 - Dune Trader
TSR 2411 - Veiled Alliance
TSR 2405 - Monstrous Compendium appendix; note that this is a bunch of looseleaf sheets meant for insertion in a binder, and a pain in the rear end.

Very Interesting, Evocative, or Handy

TSR 2418 - The Ivory Triangle; note: boxed set.
TSR 2419 - The Complete Gladiator's Handbook
TSR 2420 - City-State of Tyr
TSR 2433 - Monstrous Compendium second appendix

Not Amazing, but If You're Interested...

TSR 2413 - Valley of Dust and Fire
TSR 2422 - Earth, Air, Fire, and Water
TSR 2432 - City by the Silt Sea; note: boxed set.

Whatever, Not Important

TSR 2423 - Elves of Athas; note: DiTerlizzi art, if that interests you.
TSR 2431 - The Will and the Way; very rooted in 2E psionic rules.
TSR 2445 - Defilers and Preserves: The Wizards of Athas; originates post-revision, and doesn't offer much of anything that one of the above doesn't provide in superior form (unless you plan on actually playing in 2E).

Actively Avoid, We'll Tell You Anything Interesting

TSR 2437 - Thri-Kreen of Athas; a muddled mess.
TSR 2438 - revised boxed set; the very bad far outweighs the small good.
TSR 2439 - Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs; biotech halflings.
TSR 2441 - Beyond the Prism Pentad; a bunch of novel-related horseshit.
TSR 2444 - Mind Lords of the Last Sea; "dolphin, Athasian"; note: boxed set.
TSR 2446 - Psionic Artifacts of Athas; ugly and dumb.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 18:38

Sammyz: Dec 24, 2005

Squizzle posted:

Useful Info

Thanks! I will go and check for those higher on the list. I already had Thri Kreen of Athas and the complete gladiators because I played one back in the olden times. I AM into DiTerlizzi art, so for $6 I might pick up the elves book. I had gleaned that the boxed set and dragon kings were the must haves so I made sure not to walk out of the store without those.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 18:42

ritorix: Jul 22, 2007; Vancian Roulette

Lynn Abbey posted:

my goal, when I began plotting the book, was to keep Urik safe from the game department and put Hamanu someplace where they couldn't mess with him.

Awesome.

Squizzle posted:

[*]TSR 2423 - Elves of Athas; note: DiTerlizzi art, if that interests you.

DiTerlizzi didnt quite fit in with the Dark Sun brom/baxa art direction, but it was interesting. He was the guy that did all the 2e Planescape art.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 18:50

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

I should have mentioned, and am sorry that I didn't, that City-State of Tyr also has some DiTerlizzi.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 18:51

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

I liked DiTerlizzi's art in those books, and I think his style was sometimes better evocative of the "civilized" side of Athas than Brom and Baxa's stuff.

Also, I really like Elves of Athas and would include it in the Generally Excellent category. It's a good compliment to Slave Tribes and Dune Trader. But I am also gay for all things elves.

And the first cycle of adventures, while obviously not necessary for background information, are pretty good. Freedom and Road to Urik tie in with the first two books of the Prism Pentad, but after that, they split off. The second cycle of adventures are okay, but avoid Black Spine. It is crappy crap.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 19:16

BetterWeirdthanDead: Mar 7, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

You could also dump most of that DS stuff on e-bay.

All the local Half-Price Books had for me this week was Beyond the Prism Pentad.

I could have snagged a complete Top Secret box for $20, but I've never been interested in it.

# ? Mar 3, 2010 20:40

toddster: Aug 15, 2004; What's with all the screaming?

I'm jealous, I work at a Half Price Books and one of the sections I'm in charge of is our RPG section. Currently our entire D&D selection fits on a single shelf with room to spare. Maybe 7 4E books (most we've ever had), a few 2E books, and a mess of 3E, but no Dark Sun at all.

# ? Mar 4, 2010 11:47

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

The reason I didn't put Elves of Athas higher is the confessedly goofy reason that if the city-states can have such remarkably diverse cultures, it seemed silly to me to put out an entire book on how remarkably similar elves were across the Tablelands. It's a very well-done book, especially if you don't walk in with my biases.

Edit: Let's use the word "remarkably" to modify everything!

Squizzle fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Mar 4, 2010

# ? Mar 4, 2010 15:20

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 05:50

Kerison: Apr 9, 2004; by angerbot

Squizzle posted:

...the city-states can have such remarkably diverse cultures...

This seems more offensive to me than monocultural elves. You're talking about a region the size of Morocco and it has 7+ distinct pseudo-historical cultures. Remarkably diverse, indeed.

# ? Mar 4, 2010 15:36

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