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Squizzle posted:The reason I didn't put Elves of Athas higher is the confessedly goofy reason that if the city-states can have such remarkably diverse cultures, it seemed silly to me to put out an entire book on how remarkably similar elves were across the Tablelands. It's a very well-done book, especially if you don't walk in with my biases. Well the fact that you mentioned DiTerlizzi was enough to get me to buy it alone. I went back yesterday and bought Elves of Athas, Veiled Alliance, and City State of Tyr. They had but I didn't get Slave Tribes yet, if it's still there next week I might. I am trying to save a little because I just dropped serious coin on some phylacteries (I'm a Jew lich!)
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Mar 4, 2010 15:48
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Kerison posted:This seems more offensive to me than monocultural elves. You're talking about a region the size of Morocco and it has 7+ distinct pseudo-historical cultures. Remarkably diverse, indeed. The city states are also all incredibly insular and run by tyrannical kings who are -literally gods- and often do evil things to rule. The space between these cities is incredibly barren and everything in it wants to kill everything else. The Sahara didn't have cacti that -drink you-, but dark sun does. So admittedly I can see the city states as having different cultures, unlike say greek city-states, It seemed to me that the table-lands were so hard that the city-states could be extreme examples of a nation unto itself.
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Mar 4, 2010 15:49
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Quantumfate posted:The city states are also all incredibly insular and run by tyrannical kings who are -literally gods- and often do evil things to rule. The space between these cities is incredibly barren and everything in it wants to kill everything else. The Sahara didn't have cacti that -drink you-, but dark sun does. So admittedly I can see the city states as having different cultures, unlike say greek city-states, It seemed to me that the table-lands were so hard that the city-states could be extreme examples of a nation unto itself. This plus all of the champions all came from seperate cultures during the Green Age and thus had their own traditions to begin with. After the Cleansing Wars when they became Sorcerer-Kings their culural heritage became that of the city states they ruled. Fast forward a couple thousand years of rigid laws and near complete isolation and it's not too hard to imagine the city states having very different societies despite their relative proximity.
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Mar 4, 2010 16:11
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Yeah, if you gave say a bunch of nerds each a city in an area riddled with cities like Great Britain for example and then gave them godly powers and omnipotent rule over the lives of every citizen, within two weeks you'd have a city where everyone talks in Klingon half an hour's drive away from a city where everyone wears japanese school uniforms. And just down the A1 would be the city where all the templars sparkle in the daytime.
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Mar 4, 2010 16:15
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Reveilled posted:Yeah, if you gave say a bunch of nerds each a city in an area riddled with cities like Great Britain for example and then gave them godly powers and omnipotent rule over the lives of every citizen, within two weeks you'd have a city where everyone talks in Klingon half an hour's drive away from a city where everyone wears japanese school uniforms. And just down the A1 would be the city where all the templars sparkle in the daytime. I thought that's what the UK was like already? 
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Mar 4, 2010 16:36
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ManMythLegend posted:I thought that's what the UK was like already? Dude if the UK in your world has a city where everyone speaks klingon I want to live in your world
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Mar 4, 2010 17:00
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Reveilled posted:Dude if the UK in your world has a city where everyone speaks klingon I want to live in your world There are parts of the UK where it might as well be Klingon insofar as comprehensibility to someone from the US goes. The subtitles in 'Snatch' or 'Trainspotting' weren't optional.
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Mar 4, 2010 17:10
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Squizzle posted:The reason I didn't put Elves of Athas higher is the confessedly goofy reason that if the city-states can have such remarkably diverse cultures, it seemed silly to me to put out an entire book on how remarkably similar elves were across the Tablelands. It's a very well-done book, especially if you don't walk in with my biases. That's pretty much any D&D setting's take on demihumans though. Look at the Forgotten Realms for instance. There are probably over fifty different human cultures spread across the continent of Faerun. And on the other hand, there are maybe half a dozen different elf cultures, and probably even less diversity amongst the dwarfs. And this is a setting known for the remarkable (  ) number of sub-races it presents.Edit: I'm not trying to argue with your reason, just pointing out that every D&D setting falls into this.
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Mar 4, 2010 20:15
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PeterWeller posted:Look at the Forgotten Realms I didn't realise that you wished harm on me.
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Mar 4, 2010 20:16
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Ha! Okay, look at Eberron then.
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Mar 4, 2010 20:20
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What's Eberron's deal, anyway? Everything I hear about it makes it sounds like an '80s cartoon. Is there a thread on it?
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Mar 4, 2010 20:46
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Squizzle posted:What's Eberron's deal, anyway? Everything I hear about it makes it sounds like an '80s cartoon. Is there a thread on it? No. It's not as awesome as Dark Sun so it doesn't get its own thread. It can slum it in the 4E thread.
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Mar 4, 2010 20:48
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Squizzle posted:What's Eberron's deal, anyway? Everything I hear about it makes it sounds like an '80s cartoon. Is there a thread on it? Eberron rules. It's nothing like an eighties cartoon, it's more chiefly inspired by a variety of forties and fifties cultural influences - the main continent is inspired by post-WWII global powers, especially Europe (five nations have just finished a bloody hundred year war, spurred to its finish by the complete, sudden and unexplained magical annihilation of one of them), the setting's central city is fantasy New York, rich with secret societies and mysteries and pulp-noir detectives to unravel them, and across the ocean lies a fascinating and deadly new world, expeditions to which are sponsored by the Indiana Jones-like faculty of Morgrave University. At the same time, the march of technology is drumming ever-faster, and magical innovation has allowed exciting new technologies like airships, the lightning rail network that connects the Five Nations, and of course the recently-freed warforged - who were a lynchpin in and, to most people, a very unpleasant reminder of the Last War. It's basically what happens when fantasy, steampunk, pulp adventure and noir get all smooshed together in a delicious melting pot that is basically cribbed from real-world history. It's also the origin of and still the best setting for warforged, and really, who doesn't love warforged?
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Mar 4, 2010 21:04
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Squizzle posted:What's Eberron's deal, anyway? Everything I hear about it makes it sounds like an '80s cartoon. Is there a thread on it? Eberron is basically Dungeons: The Dragoning. Think regular 4E with White Wolf-style political maneuvering and factions (the Dragonmarked houses), with shadowy 'big bads' in the background (the Dragon Below) and a generous leavening of Indiana Jones-style pulp adventure.
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Mar 4, 2010 21:35
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Gomi posted:Eberron is basically Dungeons: The Dragoning. Think regular 4E with White Wolf-style political maneuvering and factions (the Dragonmarked houses), with shadowy 'big bads' in the background (the Dragon Below) and a generous leavening of Indiana Jones-style pulp adventure. It's really only like White Wolf in the politics. The focus is on big, bold heroic adventure, not personal horror.
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Mar 4, 2010 21:48
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Eberron is pretty much a response to everything people hated about FR. There is no metaplot to keep up with. There isn't a giant cast of epic heroes ready to steal the PCs' spotlight. And the cultures of the various demihuman and humanoid races aren't lifted straight out of Tolkien. Goblins have a cultural heritage, halflings are tribal dinosaur riders, elves are militant ancestor worshipers, etc. Also, it has trains, so you can have train robberies or murders on the Sharn Express. Edit: But it's still not as  as Dark Sun.
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Mar 4, 2010 22:07
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Ahem. From the OP:ManMythLegend posted:This thread is dedicated to the discussion of all things Athasian, and how much they own hard. If you want to talk about Forgotten Realms or Ebberon you can take that poo poo back to elementary school because this is a Man’s setting. If you don't know anything about Dark Sun, and think you can handle how much it rules, ask in here. 
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Mar 4, 2010 22:11
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Mar 4, 2010 22:14
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Refer to that if anyone tells you Dragonborn don't fit in Dark Sun.
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Mar 4, 2010 22:15
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I remember being turned off to Eberron back in 3E because none of us really knew what the setting was "about" (Dark Sun is post-apocalyptic fantasy, Planescape is about philosophy and metaphysics, etc) and it seemed like the list of source material in the first couple pages was just a grab-bag of stuff the authors liked rather than something with a strong cohesive theme. I realize now that part of the problem is that it's supposed to be a relatively "neutral" fantasy setting for D&D like FR and Greyhawk (but with modern standards of what makes a good setting and targetted at a more contemporary D&D audience), but do they actually do a better job establishing a tone or theme in the 4E material? If so I might pick it up and give it a read.
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Mar 4, 2010 22:16
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It's fantasy pulp adventure. Now let's get back to how loving rad Mekillots are. They're really ornery animals, so a psion has to mentally command and control them. Even then, they will often eat witless caravan guards who stray too close.
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Mar 4, 2010 22:18
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Is there any actually good material about the gross Thri Kreen jungle empire to the west or is it all terrible, because I feel like it's a neat setting touch that gives a totally different type of adventure setting in Athas but I'm under the impression that it's a really poorly fleshed out idea
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Mar 4, 2010 22:24
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Is there any actually good material about the gross Thri Kreen jungle empire to the west or is it all terrible, because I feel like it's a neat setting touch that gives a totally different type of adventure setting in Athas but I'm under the impression that it's a really poorly fleshed out idea There's a section about it in Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs. It still leaves a lot in the air, but does detail how their society is organized and such. Also there's a mini-adventure where you get to poke around one of Rajaat's old laboratories which is an inverted, obsidian pyramid sunk into the swamp.
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Mar 4, 2010 22:27
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Mekillots have a natural tendency to fall flat on their stomachs whenever something goes underneath them. Now combine that with all of the push, pull, or slide powers in 4e.
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Mar 4, 2010 22:28
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Not gonna lie: Dark sun is the only reason I like psionics. Even then it's also the only setting psionics fit in. For me. Conclusion: Dark sun is so bad rear end even MIND POWERS are manly as all gently caress. Levitating boats across the silt sea with my FORCE OF WILL and sheer MANLYNESS? gently caress yes! running around with drizzt using "speshul mind beams" eh, maybe if I pretend it's dark sun it'll be almost as cool. Quantumfate fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Mar 4, 2010 |
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Mar 4, 2010 22:31
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PeterWeller posted:Refer to that if anyone tells you Dragonborn don't fit in Dark Sun.
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Mar 5, 2010 00:02
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After reading through this entire thread, I started googling around for some of the game terms I wanted more info about. Eventually I ended up on a forum where someone was posting a "Sneak peak of 4th ed Dark Sun!": Click here for the full 696x1051 image. For more totally awesome Dark Sun
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Mar 5, 2010 00:08
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Quantumfate posted:The city states are also all incredibly insular and run by tyrannical kings who are -literally gods- and often do evil things to rule. I don't think you mean that the tyrannical kings are "literally gods" because there are literally no gods in Dark Sun. Claims to divinity don't make sorcerer-kings gods any more than solipsism makes me the center of the universe.
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Mar 5, 2010 00:19
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Kvantum posted:They fit in Dark Sun - as long as you make them into the Dray. You really don't even have to do that. Look at the art; there are random lizard dudes wandering around the cities in half of Brom's paintings. That's the point I was trying to make.
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Mar 5, 2010 00:22
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PeterWeller posted:You really don't even have to do that. Look at the art; there are random lizard dudes wandering around the cities in half of Brom's paintings. That's the point I was trying to make. Better example because what the gently caress is this this why is it not an official race and why do I want to include them (we did in the dark sun games we played)  EDIT: Kerison posted:I don't think you mean that the tyrannical kings are "literally gods" because there are literally no gods in Dark Sun. Claims to divinity don't make sorcerer-kings gods any more than solipsism makes me the center of the universe. They're not gods in the typical D&D sense, but they are immortal beings of imemnse power who grant powers to their worshippers and have huge established religions about them. It's close enough. Quantumfate fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Mar 5, 2010 |
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Mar 5, 2010 00:28
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drat it quote is not edit.
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Mar 5, 2010 00:30
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I'm pretty sure the lizard man in that picture is the mutated elf Air-singer that tags along with Sadira. Also, the Sorcerer Kings are explicitly and literally not gods. They're certainly god-like, but Kerison's point is that you used "literally" incorrectly.
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Mar 5, 2010 00:35
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Quantumfate posted:drat it quote is not edit. Just thought I'd edit this post for you HEY WAIT WHAT THE DEVIL
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Mar 5, 2010 00:36
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Quantumfate posted:They're not gods in the typical D&D sense, but they are immortal beings of imemnse power who grant powers to their worshippers and have huge established religions about them. It's close enough. They're no more "immortal beings of immense power" than any other epic level character. "Huge established religions" in this case means a templar-priest bureaucracy caste that is sanctioned to rule by divine right and reinforces it through ritual. The magic granted to templars by sorcerer-kings is part of this ritual reinforcement of power. "It's close enough" to some real-world religions, maybe, but sorcerer-kings are not at all like D&D gods. It's just a manipulation of myth and human fear to stratify society and rule uncontested. That's the beauty of Dark Sun.
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Mar 5, 2010 00:53
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Squizzle posted:Palate cleanser: I wonder how much a Belgoi bell goes for on the market in one of the city-states. That looks like real bronze, enough to make a decent knife. You could probably trade it for a dozen field slaves, at least.
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Mar 5, 2010 01:41
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zeal posted:I wonder how much a Belgoi bell goes for on the market in one of the city-states. That looks like real bronze, enough to make a decent knife. You could probably trade it for a dozen field slaves, at least. Knowing Dark Sun it has a Curse upon it or something, like Belgois will follow you forever until you drop it or they get you.
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Mar 5, 2010 01:50
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Attilla posted:Knowing Dark Sun it has a Curse upon it or something, like Belgois will follow you forever until you drop it or they get you. That sounds like a problem for the poor sucker who's carrying it around in his scabbard.
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Mar 5, 2010 02:15
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Male Man posted:That sounds like a problem for the poor sucker who's carrying it around in his scabbard. That's the wasteland for you.
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Mar 5, 2010 02:19
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zeal posted:I wonder how much a Belgoi bell goes for on the market in one of the city-states. That looks like real bronze, enough to make a decent knife. You could probably trade it for a dozen field slaves, at least. A pragmatic assessment of the fantastically dangerous; a lust for what in the real world would be meager treasure; a valuation of the beautiful based on its potential for bloodshed; wealth being converted into the oppression of others. Is it possible that you have made the most Dark Sun post ever?
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Mar 5, 2010 02:27
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mdxi posted:After reading through this entire thread, I started googling around for some of the game terms I wanted more info about. Eventually I ended up on a forum where someone was posting a "Sneak peak of 4th ed Dark Sun!": how come all the plants in this picture aren't wilting as that lensflare she's holding sucks the very life from the land
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Mar 5, 2010 02:29
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