|
trucutru posted:Woli, do like 90% of all Ippo opponents and retire after this fight. Feet first, if possible. I think only Sanada, Jimmy, and Take retired. Vorg quit but came back.
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 20:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 07:41 |
|
|
OnimaruXLR posted:I think only Sanada, Jimmy, and Take retired. Vorg quit but came back. Vorg quit, came back, and hasn't won a single major fight since. He was the punching bag they used to hype just how much of a genius Woli is. It really is too bad, as he was probably the only foreign boxer who wasn't a giant terrible stereotype. Well, I guess Takamura's nameless heavyweight opponents weren't bad either but they barely counted as characters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 20:55
|
|
|
In an extended fight, Vorg would've definitely beaten Woli, though. He's way too smart/skilled of a boxer to fall for the rope trick a second time. He'd probably avoid it again if anything, or make up some countermeasures. At least, that's how Vorg is supposed to be 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 21:02
|
|
|
Serious Frolicking posted:Vorg quit, came back, and hasn't won a single major fight since. He was the punching bag they used to hype just how much of a genius Woli is. It really is too bad, as he was probably the only foreign boxer who wasn't a giant terrible stereotype. Well, I guess Takamura's nameless heavyweight opponents weren't bad either but they barely counted as characters. That's kind of like saying that every single fight that happens off-panel isn't a major fight. I mean, even Kobayashi became the Jr. Featherweight champion. I'm sure that, unless something happens like Mashiba ends up challenging him for the world title, Vorg won't be "starring" in any fights any time soon. Also, I'd say Ozma wasn't a stereotype, although he didn't really have much of a personality outside of "Nice guy" and "cherishes his 'family'"
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 21:23
|
|
|
OnimaruXLR posted:I think only Sanada, Jimmy, and Take retired. Vorg quit but came back. Didn't Nao also quit after fighting Ippo?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 21:24
|
|
|
Serious Frolicking posted:Vorg quit, came back, and hasn't won a single major fight since.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 21:35
|
|
|
Guyver posted:How do you figure that what with him being ranked first in the WBA's Junior Lightweight class? 'on screen'
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 21:38
|
|
|
OnimaruXLR posted:That's kind of like saying that every single fight that happens off-panel isn't a major fight. I mean, even Kobayashi became the Jr. Featherweight champion. I'm sure that, unless something happens like Mashiba ends up challenging him for the world title, Vorg won't be "starring" in any fights any time soon. Ozma was a stereotype. The overly friendly american simpleton bit is pretty common. I guess I should have clarified. Vorg hasn't beaten a single named character since he fought Ippo. I mean, I guess being a champion that isn't ever going to compete with Ippo again is better than nothing, but he was still Woli's punching bag. gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Apr 5, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 21:44
|
|
|
PaleIrishGuy posted:Didn't Nao also quit after fighting Ippo? I know he at least hangs around where Ozma's trainer lives (they had the same dude for training, I think). You see him briefly in midst of one of Takamura's traveling escapades 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2010 22:00
|
|
|
I think there was a chapter where someone told Ippo that other than a specific list of boxers they stated in the conversation, all of Ippo's opponents had retired. I forget if that included Nao or not, but I think it might have.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 01:00
|
|
|
Hajime No Ippo: Director's Cut Chapter 865 - Introduction of the fight (Aug 31, 2009) *cut TWENTY FOUR chapters* Chapter 890 - Woli getting hit by Ippo (Apr 5, 2010)
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 02:10
|
|
|
I know Infinitum, it's pretty absurd. Literally, this fight is taking so long that I'm trying to see how many entirely new mangas I can finish. Just finished Shamo, a great series, but plagued with a terribly inconvenient halt at the end. Hopefully, this ridiculous match will wrap up soon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 02:23
|
|
|
Jedah posted:
Suddendly, the air-pressure of one of Ippo's super-punches breaks the arena's roof. A ray of moonlight shines on woli and a gruesome transformation into a giant Ōzaru monkey starts! what will Ippo do now?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 03:43
|
|
|
trucutru posted:Suddendly, the air-pressure of one of Ippo's super-punches breaks the arena's roof. A ray of moonlight shines on woli and a gruesome transformation into a giant Ōzaru monkey starts! what will Ippo do now? Training arc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 03:46
|
|
|
I don't mind long fights, but we could have easily compressed those 24 chapters into 6-8. For months it's been "Woli is ridiculous. Ok now he's even more ridiculous and you still can't hit him. Ok now he's even MORE ridiculous and guess what? That's right you still can't hit him" which is just boring as gently caress to read. What points do we need to convey to the reader? 1.) Woli is a monkey who can jump around the ring 2.) Woli is a genius and completely outclasses Ippo 3.) Ippo needs to get completely outclassed and get battered to hell for a few chapters Why has it taken this long for the fight to turn around? I've lost all interest in the fight win or lose because we've wasted over 20 chapters to get to a point where it's meant to be a meaningful for the reader. What's worse is I hate Woli as a character. OK cool he's a smug prick, but he has 0 personality and what little backstory there was is completely bland. I feel bad for Woli, who is clearly the better fighter, as he's going to lose due to a heartattack/lack of stamina/burning passion You know what the cherry on top is? We've still got more chapters to go.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 03:50
|
|
|
My question is: Why couldn't this much time, energy, and effort be dedicated toward Sendo and Vorg's journey toward the World title? Mori could've fit 3 entire matches of Sendo/Vorg vs. various world-rankers. This would've been infinitely more interesting. No one gives a poo poo about Ippo anymore.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 03:54
|
|
|
Jedah posted:My question is: Why couldn't this much time, energy, and effort be dedicated toward Sendo and Vorg's journey toward the World title? Mori could've fit 3 entire matches of Sendo/Vorg vs. various world-rankers. This would've been infinitely more interesting. No one gives a poo poo about Ippo anymore. Serious answer: Morikawa has to show that Ippo has grown enough to be able to take on the world. Now, to us, that means that he should be able to beat his opponents with superior, intelligent boxing but, in typical shonen fashion, he instead has to prove he has unbreakable burning spirit. So Morikawa had to show, in minute, painful, prolonged, absolutely boring detail, how completely outclassed Ippo was. I distinctly remember thinking "Wow, the author is good" during the Kamogawa boxing arc because the Americans guys were joking about the "samurai spirit" which not only showed that he realized that foreigners don't think so highly of the concept but also was a great way to set the fight to be won (in a believable way) thanks to that. Now the opposite is true and Ippo is going to win in completely unbelievable way to comply with "shonen writing 101"
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 05:08
|
|
|
Chinaman7000 posted:Training arc. Kaio-ken...TIMES FOUR!!! Ippo will then punch so hard he throws himself off balanc--oh wait he does that already. Welp, I dunno. Maybe Aoki will explode from all the smug surrounding Woli. That'll be just what Ippo needs to turn golden. I'm pretty sure this might be the 2nd or 3rd DBZ reference I've made specifically to this fight. That alone reminds just how long this snuff film has been going on. Christ, Woli, just shoot him already.  trucutru posted:I distinctly remember thinking "Wow, the author is good" during the Kamogawa boxing arc because the Americans guys were joking about the "samurai spirit" which not only showed that he realized that foreigners don't think so highly of the concept but also was a great way to set the fight to be won (in a believable way) thanks to that. And despite all of that, I guess the readers were supposed to have forgotten that Ippo has a lot of spirit and is determined. This whole fight was just a big reminder. Good lord, I think I wrote better conflicts when I was 13, and all of that garbage was fanfiction. 
Shinjobi fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Apr 6, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 12:22
|
|
|
trucutru posted:Now the opposite is true and Ippo is going to win in completely unbelievable way to comply with "shonen writing 101" The worst flaw of Shonen writing is its lack of depth. I thought, and maybe I was wrong, that HnI was capable of in-depth character development. The best examples I can think of are from years ago... Date vs Martinez 2, Takamura vs Hawk, Miyata vs Jimmy. It all came apart around the time Sawamura got into his accident. Perhaps that was metaphorical, saying that the old days of HnI were over, because what we've had since is not the same manga I remember. Feels distinctly different. Cheaper, lazier, and less motivated. I guess once you've taken a spin in the Shonen universe, you realize it's perfect for a rollercoaster ride, and terrible for a marathon backpacking adventure.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 16:46
|
|
|
I dunno, Ippo totally tar-and-feathering that hopeful before finally "giving up his belt" was an incredible fight to read. Ippo was god moding for once, but it was really well done to where you didn't go "ahaha what". Or was that before the incredible Sawamura-Mashiba bout?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 16:59
|
|
|
Jedah posted:Perhaps we, the HnI audience, have grown up too much over the course of reading the manga. While I'm no longer this manga's target audiance, I don't think I've outgrown this story. I'd lean towards the second option. I don't know, this whole fight just seems forced. I get that we are demonstrating Ippo's burning spirit. (in horribly long detail) But the way this is playing out is incredibly weak. Woli has had all these stupid advantages these last 20 chapters, and now, because it's time to lose, he loses them. Ghost Ippo! I can sorta tolerate the "never lose/determination" angle, if the protagonist does something with it. But Ippo's done nothing clever, or interesting, or anything.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 17:07
|
|
|
The never lose/determination angle would've been much neater up against some brute force freak. I don't know why, but slugging match fights are the best ones. Good case? Maybe Ippo goes up against some dude who was something like Welterweight for ages, but it wasn't his ideal weight. He drops down and can handle Ippo's punches. Ippo comes up against someone who is maybe slower than him, but just as much if not moreso of a powerhouse. If you think back, Hammer Nao dropped down from Welter after being a punching bag for a while, and by that point, he had a pretty good tolerance for hard punches. Dodging is so frustrating. But Ippo pounding a dude and he goes "THIS ISN'T SO BAD  " would be kinda new. Every fight has at one point gone OMFG HE HITS TOO HARD when someone gets nailed by one of Ippo's punches.I know he's supposed to be a ridiculously hard puncher, but being up against someone who does what he does, only BETTER would've been a better way to display his willpower. At least, that's what I think. Kamogawa-Anderson was very much one-sided and almost god moding, but it MADE SENSE. Anderson was mentioned to be a boxing prodigy (world class, easily) and several, several weight classes above Kamogawa. Ippo having issues with some speedy, smug newbie just doesn't work the same. It doesn't have the sense of incredible accomplishment; it ends up feeling terribly lame and disappointing. Geop fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Apr 6, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 17:23
|
|
|
Geop posted:Kamogawa-Anderson was very much one-sided and almost god moding, but it MADE SENSE. Anderson was mentioned to be a boxing prodigy (world class, easily) and several, several weight classes above Kamogawa. Ippo having issues with some speedy, smug newbie just doesn't work the same. It doesn't have the sense of incredible accomplishment; it ends up feeling terribly lame and disappointing. I agree, I don't understand if this is Mori's "new" Kamogawa vs Anderson fight, because it isn't even close. Anderson was a great villan. Yes, he was a racist caricature, but he was fitting for the time period. It was a hateful war on both sides, I think everyone can acknowledge that. In any event, Anderson setup a very good "revenge" plot for Kamogawa. Everyone in that arc played a role in order to build up the stakes and the tension of the final match. In contrast, Woli is a completely wooden character. He is neither a friend or a foe, just a boring "genius" fighter. He's like Vorg without any of the personality or backstory. Woli can do a hundred backflips and bounce off the ceiling if he wants to. If I don't know anything about his motivations, or why he is even in the ring, why does the reader care at all? This is what I mean by cheap, lazy writing. I don't get it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 17:50
|
|
|
edit: ^^^^^^ He is in the ring to have fuuuuuunnnnnnnnn! and learn about boxing!Jedah posted:Perhaps we, the HnI audience, have grown up too much over the course of reading the manga. Nah, the manga has gotten objectively worse. The whole burning spirit shtick has always been there (as part of the whole shonen package it has a reason to be there and it can be good). Takamura vs Hawk, Kamogawa's fight and most of Ippo's fights have it in spades. The difference is that they show something else besides spirit to win the fight. Takamura got really pissed and remembered the basics, Kamogawa had skills and the megaton punch, Ippo dashed to deliver killing blows, etc. Compare those fights to the current one where Ippo didn't show he is good at anything but taking punches. He is slower, has dumb tactics, less technique, worse reflexes, poo poo confidence and a horrible coach who seems willing to let him become punch-drunk. But all those are minor details, he is going to win because he has spirit and that's all that counts. trucutru fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 6, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2010 18:06
|
|
|
Who you gonna call? http://www.onemanga.com/Hajime_no_Ippo/889 GHOST IPPO
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 09:24
|
|
|
Um. I resisted reading the spoilers because I really want to believe that this is going somewhere. But uh... WHAT THE gently caress WHAT THE gently caress WHAT THE gently caress IS GOING ON HERE?!?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 09:27
|
|
|
Now that Miyata can punch faster than the speed of sound and Itagaki has bullet time, Ippo's developed his own super power. He has a little ghost that cancels other peoples superpowers. But it only works to save Ippo from death, so every fight from now on is gonna be a bunch of rounds of Ippo getting the utter poo poo beat out of him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 09:28
|
|
|
Can Aoki's super power be that he shoots little broccoli sprouts at people? Or give Takamura a bear-summoning technique.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 09:41
|
|
|
So, I guess Ippo's nen ability is the same as Knuckle's. Well, Ippo's is vastly more amusing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 09:42
|
|
|
Any moment now, a bulldozer will hit the ring, and it will be perfectly fine in universe.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 11:02
|
|
|
The almost physical recognition of ghost Ippo made this even weirder. I thought it was meant to be purely symbolic, but Woli is all WHAT WAS THAT. Ugh. (yes, I know what Woli meant, but the wording/setting of it all is just too weird for this manga)
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 11:57
|
|
|
Geop posted:The almost physical recognition of ghost Ippo made this even weirder. I thought it was meant to be purely symbolic, but Woli is all WHAT WAS THAT. I just don't even know what the gently caress. If I had to guess, I'd say that they're going to explain it as Ippo intimidating Woli somehow. Which doesn't make any sense. But Morikawa has written himself into this corner where nothing satisfying can explain this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 12:51
|
|
|
I've got this covered, I know where this is going to go. Since Woli spends all his time as a monkey he can jump around and swing in the trees with his hands. His arms are long and thin like a monkey, but since his endurance training involved basically nothing (swinging in trees his whole life only eating bananas), compared to Ippo who's endurance training is more traditional running so Ippo's legs have kept him alive by absorbing all the light hits from Woli. Since Woli has only had three fights, even if they were all 12 round fights each and went to decision he would not have nearly the fight conditioning that Ippo has right now (something like 20 or so total fights with only one short break after the only loss). Now Woli's wild instincts are going to tell him to run because the opponent isn't showing submission, and that's slowing down his reactions (ala Ghost Ippo). Thus hard work and Japanese spirit > a monkee.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 14:15
|
|
|
I think the likely answer is that all those light hits Ippo landed on Woli has resulted in a subconscious realization that Ippo CAN catch him and the isn't as free in the ring as he thinks, which results in his legs not moving as he'd like to. So Ghost Ippo is FEAR.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 14:38
|
|
|
Thank god, I think this fight is finally almost over. The whole thing has been so bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 15:36
|
|
|
stoneb posted:Thank god, I think this fight is finally almost over. The whole thing has been so bad. I can't even imagine an explanation for ghost ippo that would make sense enough to make up for this horrible fight. Whatever, just gimme the money shot of Woli getting his jaw dislocated and let's move on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 16:10
|
|
|
pnumoman posted:I can't even imagine an explanation for ghost ippo that would make sense enough to make up for this horrible fight. I want Ippo to destroy someone so badly in the ring that they are out of it for a while (ie: Ippo post-Vorg). Or give someone something like punch-eye (ie: Sendo's first defense fight against the southpaw).But I guess Mori thinks about that and just goes "  but I want Ippo to be likable. HEALING FISTS  "
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 16:17
|
|
|
pnumoman posted:I can't even imagine an explanation for ghost ippo that would make sense enough to make up for this horrible fight. You see, Ippo has been channeling his energy into those wimpy body blows and striking Woli's Hidden Channeling Points. As far as I rememeber (I wont read that poo poo again) Ippo was trying his hardest to hit him SIX times. You what happens if he connects with punch number 7? You're already KO'ed 
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2010 23:37
|
|
|
trucutru posted:What happens if he connects with punch number 7? Woli's head exploding would be a satisfactory conclusion. I might even forget the rest of the fight for something like that. Matlock Birthmark fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Apr 8, 2010 |
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2010 00:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 07:41 |
|
|
Ghost Ippo's a metaphor jesus
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2010 01:14
|
|