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Phineas Rhyne posted:I picked up the hd65 at my local BB (Northern California) for $399. It was the display model with no remote, last one they had, but such is life. Also of note is the $199 protection plan for the projector; while I'd normally never buy an extended warranty, this one comes with one free bulb replacement within 4 years. Well drat! The sales guy didn't tell me that! That's cheaper than buying a replacement lamp online. Speaking of, can anyone tell me how projector lamp prices tend to fluctuate? Before I bought the Optoma, I had a 10 year old (literally) projector from Compaq that I was using. Since it's long been out of production, I noticed lamps were running $500-600 dollars! Well, right now it looks like I can get Optoma lamps for my new projector for ~$250 bucks. How many long on average do prices on a projector's lamps tend to stay reasonable before climbing to ridiculous prices like my old Compaq's?
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Mar 16, 2010 22:07
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Dolemite posted:Well drat! The sales guy didn't tell me that! That's cheaper than buying a replacement lamp online. http://www.provantage.com/optoma-bl-fs180c~7OPTO0CP.htm
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Mar 17, 2010 13:51
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Omegaslast posted:http://www.provantage.com/optoma-bl-fs180c~7OPTO0CP.htm Nice find - thanks for the link! Have you ordered from this company before?
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Mar 17, 2010 22:23
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Dolemite posted:Nice find - thanks for the link! Have you ordered from this company before? Not that i remember, but its reputable. resellerratings good and such Im looking to upgrade from my HD65... anyone got opinions on the viewsonic pro 8100 for $1100 at tigerdirect after cashback?? Seems like the best value.
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Apr 28, 2010 21:23
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Dolemite posted:Nice find - thanks for the link! Have you ordered from this company before? I have before. It's actually where I got my HD65. That said, their shipping SUCKS. They have a 2-4 day lead time before even shipping, so don't bother paying for overnight unless you need it a week from when you ordered. Other than that, they're pretty drat good. Most things are drop shipped and their prices are pretty unbeatable.
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Apr 30, 2010 22:44
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In my opinion the Viewsonic 8100 looked like crap when it was released and is only going to look worse now that it's outdated. Spend the extra few hundred and pick up an Epson Home Cinema 8100, which sells normally for $1499.
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May 2, 2010 08:42
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King Hotpants posted:In my opinion the Viewsonic 8100 looked like crap when it was released and is only going to look worse now that it's outdated. Spend the extra few hundred and pick up an Epson Home Cinema 8100, which sells normally for $1499. Its $1400 on amazon, so $300 difference. what exactly looked bad about the viewsonic 8100, a lot of people favorably review it. The lovely dynamic iris has apparently been fixed by firmware... i cant really find unfavorable reviews about anything besides the iris. Also do higher end dlps like the hc3800 have color wheel problems? i really cant stand the RBE. However it seems to have really good contrast. looks like the hc3800 has 4x just like the hd65... lame. I would probably still see it. I really cant stand it and neither can any of my friends (5 of them have watched it, all 5 of them noticed it and think its irritating). It blows my mind that some people claim to not see it. coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 10:38 on May 2, 2010 |
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May 2, 2010 10:23
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I bought a Mitsubishi HC1600 in December 2008 (i've actually been very happy with it, despite the somewhat mixed reviews) from Amazon with a $100 discount and the free bulb offer. I got the MIR, but the bulb never arrived. I assume this was related to rebatestatus.com going out of business. Does anyone know if Mitsubishi will still honor the rebate and send me a free bulb? I assume it's pretty unlikely... I just hit around 2250 hours on the projector, and it popped up a message about the lamp being on its last legs. It may keep chugging along for quite a while, but I would like to get a new one ready for when it does die. Is there any reason not to buy a bulb without a housing like this: http://tinyurl.com/2dxv3m9 - looks like it would be quite a lot cheaper. Assuming I can't get a free replacement that is...
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May 5, 2010 02:51
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This is a great thread to read through, and I'm getting a lot of good information. In my quest for a nice media room, I have been going back and forth on a lot of things, and choosing between a new TV and a projector/screen is currently my big debate. Any help in choosing the right option would be great. Here are the things that I'm worried/thinking about... - I am basically converting an unused garage into this room. There is only one window and a doggie door (the window should have an AC unit in it), so it should be able to be relatively dark in the room. - I plan on keeping it very basic. I MAY lay down some carpet if it will help with sound quality, and I do plan on hooking up a decent (not great) sound system. - I have heard many things about sound delay between the projector and the speakers...but I haven't seen it mentioned a ton in here. Is this still something that is an issue on modern projectors? - The room will get a decent amount of use, but it will not be a replacement for a living room television. If I had to guess usage, I would say no more than 10 hours per week. - Money is an issue. I would like to stick with something that is under $1200 total for the entire setup (sound not included). I know that bulbs do burn out occasionally, but I am fine with spending the cash every year or two as long as it isn't crazy. - I will mainly use this room for movies and television. I may eventually move my video game systems to this room, but I am not an avid gamer, so poor gaming options wouldn't neccessarily be a deal breaker. - If I choose a projector, it would have to be mounted or in a stationary location. Moving it around would most likely not be an option. - I am concerned about "rainbow effect" but I can't seem to grasp what it actually does. Is this something that affects all projectors, or just bulbs themselves over time? - Is the screen itself a big investment, or do you mainly just buy a screen and run with it. Along that same line, since it's a garage, would mounting it on a garage door (obviously one that will not be opened) be a problem? So, based on the information provided, I am curious what the experts of this area think? Thanks in advance!
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May 11, 2010 00:43
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Acrolos posted:This is a great thread to read through, and I'm getting a lot of good information. In my quest for a nice media room, I have been going back and forth on a lot of things, and choosing between a new TV and a projector/screen is currently my big debate. Any help in choosing the right option would be great. Here are the things that I'm worried/thinking about... In my experience: -I haven't noticed any lag between the projected image and sound. The only time I ever noticed it was when calibrating my timings in Rock Band. The calibrator menu used larger timings than when I used to play on my regular LCD HDTV. -With the rainbow effect, I've noticed it when flicking my eyes in a direction very quickly. Like when playing video games, if I need to quickly focus on something, I can see a slight rainbow effect. To imagine it: visualize looking at something. Then imagine there's a slight outline around it in the red, green, and blue colors. Of course, once you're done shifting your eyes over, the effect goes away. It's a momentary thing. Either I don't care or I've gotten used to it. Either way, it doesn't bother me at all. And again, it's only when watching things where you need to quickly shift your eyes around the image. If you're watching soap operas or something, you should be fine. If you're playing FPSs or watching a fast-paced soccer match, you might see the effect. I get the impression it also depends on the person. I've heard of lots of people to who never see the effect ever. It drives others mad.
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May 16, 2010 20:58
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Rainbow effect isn't really an issue for me. I can see it easily or with some concentration, depending on the scene, but I got used to it and it never really bothered me anyway. Don't worry too much about it.
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May 17, 2010 20:15
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Looking to buy a projector... I was thinking the BenQ W600 (720p) would be good enough for me as I'm pretty casual, but the main drawback seems to be the ergonomics - no vertical/horizontal adjustment, so I can't just throw it on my desk and aim it a bit up and correct. Welp. So what's the next step up? I might as well just get 1080p even though console games don't come at that resolution yet. For someone who isn't hardcore about picture quality, will maybe have a bit of ambient lighting, and doesn't want to ceiling mount something, is there a good choice? Is it a matter of "ceiling mount or bust"?
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Jun 11, 2010 07:35
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How does 720p content look on a 1080p projector? I would imagine it's not ideal because it's no longer pixel for pixel, but is it noticeable or not really?
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Jun 16, 2010 04:16
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Vehementi: For about $250 more you can get an LCD 720p projector with a 2:1 zoom and good lens shift, like a Panasonic AX200 or a Sanyo PLV-Z5. To get a 1080p projector with lens shift and all that, you need to go up to at least $1500 for the Epson Home Cinema 6100. Farmer: Not really noticeable, in my opinion. The upscaling jump from 720p-->1080p is nothing compared to the jump from 480p. Acrolos, I'll respond in full to your concerns in a little while.
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Jun 17, 2010 16:02
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Acrolos posted:- I have heard many things about sound delay between the projector and the speakers...but I haven't seen it mentioned a ton in here. Is this still something that is an issue on modern projectors? It's not the sound that gets delayed here; it's the picture. Sound takes significantly less time to process than high definition video does, so the sound will reach the speakers before the picture reaches the screen. This is not often noticeable, but it can be a factor if you're hypersensitive to it. There are two things you can do to fix this. Some receivers have an audio delay function, allowing you to slow down the audio to match the video. There are also external devices that do the same thing (http://www.felston.com/) if your receiver lacks the capability. The other solution is that many time-sensitive games like Rock Band have onboard delay adjustments. Compared to how things used to be, though, it's not a big deal anymore. quote:- The room will get a decent amount of use, but it will not be a replacement for a living room television. If I had to guess usage, I would say no more than 10 hours per week. Under $1200, your best bet is a high-quality 720p projector--at least in my opinion. You can get a 720p projector with a whole mess of quality features and bells and whistles for $1000ish. Or you can pick up a barebones 1080p for the same money. The 720p projector will be LCD and the 1080p projector will be DLP, just because that's who kicks rear end in those particular market segments right now. quote:- I am concerned about "rainbow effect" but I can't seem to grasp what it actually does. Is this something that affects all projectors, or just bulbs themselves over time? Rainbows are something that some people see on DLP projectors with slow color wheels. A single-chip DLP projector does not display the whole picture simultaneously--it displays the red, green, and blue channels in sequence. This happens incredibly quickly, and the slowest still perform 120 sequential refreshes per second, so your eyes and brain just mush the whole thing together and all you see is a picture. Problem is, when you flick your eyes back and forth quickly, sometimes you'll see the image break apart--so you'll see a flash of blue, or a burst of green, where there shouldn't be one. If you see it all the time, it'll drive you loving crazy. If you never see them, you will have no idea what I'm talking about. The only way to know if you are susceptible is to go look at a couple of DLP projectors playing something with lots of fast motion in it. Try an action movie. If you can sit and watch and nothing jumps out at you, you're safe. If you see rainbows, you will know immediately what I am talking about. Here is a picture of some guy waving his hand in front of a DLP projector. See those separate colors? That's more or less what you get on screen. It's only for a brief flash, though. There are three-chip DLP projectors that don't have this problem but they cost the goddamned moon. Other three-chip technologies (LCD and LCoS) also aren't susceptible, because there's no color wheel/sequential display. All three channels are on screen at the same time. Now, to counter this, there are DLP projectors out there with faster wheel speeds. You'd want to look for a color wheel speed of 4x or higher. And in your price range, there is one way to know with 100% certainty that you will never see a rainbow: buy an LCD projector. This has its own set of problems, but rainbow effect isn't one of them. quote:- Is the screen itself a big investment, or do you mainly just buy a screen and run with it. Along that same line, since it's a garage, would mounting it on a garage door (obviously one that will not be opened) be a problem? The screen can be a big investment or it can not be. It's up to you. On your budget, you might just want to hang a sheet or something. AVS forums had some good information for building your own screen on a budget, and Projector Central ran an article like that a while back, too. My screen is really expensive but I use it to evaluate projectors, so I went with the best most optically neutral screen available. It costs a lot. You don't need something like that. Hope this helps.
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Jun 17, 2010 22:03
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My roommates and I are thinking about picking up this bad boy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824157082 (EPSON PowerLite Home Cinema 8100). Seems to be getting good reviews most places. Anyone had any experience with this projector?
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Jun 20, 2010 10:28
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Famicom Bunko posted:My roommates and I are thinking about picking up this bad boy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824157082 (EPSON PowerLite Home Cinema 8100). Overall I love the projector. I own one and use it almost daily. I have it hooked into the computer, fios, xbox, and ps3. I have a hard time going back to regular t.v. I bought it in January and have somewhere around 500+ hours on it. Just remember that light control is important. I often use it with lights on (dynamic or natural setting) but they are slightly recessed and not pointing at the screen. The lack of direct lighting on the screen makes a huge improvement versus say a low watt lamp that sits on a table and lights the entire room; it washes out the colors more than the recessed brighter lighting that is aimed away from the screen. The colors are great and the blacks are quite good. They could be better but for that I'd need either a slightly gray screen or more expensive projector. If you are worried about fan noise, my xbox is louder from across the room so I don't really notice it. Also note, the damned thing is huge, as in it's almost as large as my computer. You may have a tricky time placing it but the lens shift allows for pretty much any placement in the room.
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Jun 22, 2010 16:59
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The Epson 8100 is a great projector. It's actually what I use at home these days.
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Jun 22, 2010 18:23
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Thanks guys, we ended up picking it up! Got it at Best Buy for 10% off since they had an opened box one! So, is dynamic mode supposed to sense the level of light in the room and adjust the brightness accordingly? Because dynamic mode, even in complete darkness, is really bright. Like...too bright. We are just pointing it at a white wall for now (no screen) and that poo poo is reflecting a good ~25 feet back and just lighting up the entire room. Would a screen significantly help reduce how much is reflected? Other than that, this thing is a fantastic projector. And really, being too bright isn't a complaint at all!
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Jun 23, 2010 09:38
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No, Dynamic mode is just supposed to be really bright.
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Jun 23, 2010 15:18
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Is there anything I can hook up to make my image bigger? I just moved and the new room that the projector is in is a few feet shorter than the once I was using before. I didn't think it would be a big deal, but the image shrank significantly. Am I dumb for just wanting an additional lens to tack on to blow things up?
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Jul 4, 2010 17:50
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Epson 8100 is $1150 at electronics expo with code "EMPLOYEE" use bing.com to get 6.5 off.. bring it down to like $1070.. yes thats right $1070 for 1080p lcd, HQV reon, tilt shift, dynamic iris, fuckin everything projector. Fuccccccck 3d.
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Jul 11, 2010 09:18
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Omegaslast posted:Epson 8100 is $1150 at electronics expo with code "EMPLOYEE" I just ordered one of these yesterday. This is my first foray into projectorness. I have a chubby. Is there a certain gray color I can paint the wall instead of buying that expensive goo paint? edit: nevermind. reading the thread first is good idea! PowderKeg fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 13, 2010 |
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Jul 13, 2010 17:00
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After doing my research, it was a no-brainer. I already made a thread about my home build with it, but here's the video of the image quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0taolfUk4g Casio XJ-A240. $1075 after shipping/tax. The main positives: 20,000 hours of bulb life, blows away most others. Colors made from the laser/LED combination are amazing. 2500 lumens. HDMI input. 3 year warranty if I'm not mistaken. The unit itself is tiny, and it has optical zoom. Possible negatives: It's 720p/1080i (though i'm projecting 12 feet horizontal and still has great detail). It's a DLP and you can almost make out the colors individually when you rapidly shift your eyes back and forth (unnaturally). I don't notice it unless I look for it, and some of my friends couldn't even see it when I tried to get them to. That's about all I can think of. I went to best buy and checked out their $3000 projector being projected on a $4000 screen. The detail you gain from the 1080p is often lost from the washout of having a crappy light output (their display model was 1000 lumens). Overall, I'm satisfied with it. I'd check out a display model or find someone who owns one before committing to buy though. Jayls5 fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 18, 2010 |
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Jul 18, 2010 20:03
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I don't want to pee in JayIs5's cereal or anything, and if he's happy with his projector that's wonderful (if this is indeed the case, I would suggest he stop reading now). Fair warning. I strongly recommend against buying the new Casio LED/laser projectors for any reason, especially home theater. Casio had some major production flaws resulting in lumen output of about 50% of specified, best-case. Due to the way they measure lumens, even after they "fixed" the problem, they were still only getting about 80%. You will never see a Green Slim projector that measures to spec during normal use, ever. Then there's the fact that the fan sounds like a jet engine in full power mode, so you're almost forced to use Eco, which cuts lumens in half. As for color, the blue laser is more violet than blue, so it throws color temperature and grayscale tracking for a loop. Red is incredibly weak. Green is overpowering. The color adjustments are rudimentary, so it's difficult to fix the problem. Over the life of the projector, the color balance shifts towards red, but you need to put 200-300 hours on the lamp before it approaches something resembling 'balanced.' Light output drops off by 25% in the first 200 hours. You can replace the laser, but that kind of defeats the purpose of buying an LED projector, in my opinion. With the deal that Omegaslast just posted, you can have an Epson Home Cinema 8100 for $1070. That's a 1080p home theater projector with really good color and contrast. If you need it really bright, it'll put out 1800 lumens, and it'll do that while looking much better than the Casio projectors will. This is what I was talking about a little while ago in our other projector thread. Current-generation LED projectors are not suitable for home theater. It breaks my heart a little bit when I see people drop serious money on a projector that's going to look like rear end, all for the sake of "20,000 hours." Newsflash, kids: having a 20,000 hour lamp doesn't guarantee that your projector will last for 20,000 hours. It mostly just guarantees that when something breaks, it will be something other than the lamp.
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Jul 18, 2010 23:34
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King Hotpants posted:I don't want to pee in JayIs5's cereal or anything, and if he's happy with his projector that's wonderful (if this is indeed the case, I would suggest he stop reading now). It's quite alright, I don't take offense in the least bit. I just would like to clarify a few things. The initial production run that had variances in lumen output are claimed to be corrected. One review claimed a substantial drop in lumen output within the first 200 hours, but they did this by running it 24/7 for those two hundred hours. If you actually bother to read the manual, it states explicitly that you should not run it for 24 hours, and doing so would constitute abuse. The ones who tested it ran it 200 straight hours, so their results shouldn't have even been reported in the first place. I do find the colors in the brightest mode to be not as good (and I was too lazy to even bother adjusting it), which is why I run it in Eco mode. It already appears balanced in this mode. Eco mode does not cut the output by 50%; it's more like 20% less. The fan is whisper quiet in this mode. Full output mode isn't bad for noise either, but you might notice it during dead silent movie scenes in a house with zero ambient noise. Since this projector gets a little dimmer after it warms up, this affected the output rating. Casio most likely took the initial start-up output. If you take 80% of the advertised 2500 lumen output (worst case), you still have 2000. Even if you then take 80% of that for eco mode, you still have a good 1600. What I'm essentially saying is, I have zero issues watching it during the day in a moderately bright room. You're right though, simply having a 20,000 hr projector doesn't guarantee it will get that much. Thankfully though, Casio gives a full 3 year warranty that includes both the LEDS/lasers and mechanical parts. That way, you get your 20,000 hours regardless of what might go wrong. Cost of ownership, as a result, is much lower over the life of the projector. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise.
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Jul 19, 2010 01:42
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King Hotpants posted:Since you mentioned colors, I tried to be somewhat objective. I picked the "worst" mode for color, eco off, with all base color settings. My laptop is right below it. I don't like the white as much in this mode, but you get the idea of how the blues are not necessarily "violet" in tone. I only have the screen at about 140 inches in size for this pic. 
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Jul 19, 2010 02:12
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King Hotpants posted:I don't want to pee in JayIs5's cereal or anything, and if he's happy with his projector that's wonderful (if this is indeed the case, I would suggest he stop reading now). In my view, you're right, but for a different reason. The casio projectors have a 2-color wheel (green-blue), and the lamp warranty is only 3000 hours. All LED devices aren't like that. I've personally run the LG HS101 LED projector for something like 5000 hours, and I'm extremely satisfied. I'm buying the HX-300G soon.
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Jul 19, 2010 12:41
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cultureulterior posted:In my view, you're right, but for a different reason. The casio projectors have a 2-color wheel (green-blue), and the lamp warranty is only 3000 hours. I just knew it was 3 years and included the light source, but I hadn't bothered to check the total hours it was covered. I'm looking at the manual right now, and Casio says the light source is covered for 6000 hours or 3 years, whichever comes first.
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Jul 19, 2010 15:46
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cultureulterior posted:In my view, you're right, but for a different reason. The casio projectors have a 2-color wheel (green-blue), and the lamp warranty is only 3000 hours. I know all LED projectors aren't like that. I've seen the HX300G too; it's a nice little presentation projector, but it's also XGA and only 300 lumens. The video processing isn't very good, nor is the contrast. I think we're just going to disagree. That's fine. But my opinion isn't something I just came up with. I have evaluated a lot of these projectors, each one for several days. All I can do is give advice, but you're under no obligation to take it. JayIs5 posted:Since you mentioned colors, I tried to be somewhat objective. I picked the "worst" mode for color, eco off, with all base color settings. My laptop is right below it. I don't like the white as much in this mode, but you get the idea of how the blues are not necessarily "violet" in tone. I only have the screen at about 140 inches in size for this pic. You can't look at one uncalibrated monitor compared to another uncalibrated monitor and proclaim that it's "good enough." When I say the colors are bad, I am talking about spectrophotometer readings. It is objectively bad, especially compared to other projectors that cost about that much. Like I said before, if you are happy with your purchase, I am happy for you. There is no sarcasm in that statement at all; I really am. But my experience with LED projectors (and projectors in general) is pretty extensive; I do this for a living and I am offering my thoughts. I spent a lot of hours with the Casio LED/Laser projectors trying to get something resembling accurate color out of them, and it can't be done. That's fine for presentations but not so fine when we're talking about home theater--or at least "serious" home theater. If it doesn't bother you, that's wonderful. When I post something in this forum, I kind of assume that everyone wants the best picture for their money, and right now the best picture is not going to come from an LED product, period. If you are more concerned with lamp life than picture quality, that's fine too, it's just something we're not going to agree about.
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Jul 19, 2010 16:15
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King Hotpants posted:I know all LED projectors aren't like that. I've seen the HX300G too; it's a nice little presentation projector, but it's also XGA and only 300 lumens. The video processing isn't very good, nor is the contrast. This might sound stupid, but what sort of video processing takes place inside the HX300G when running HDMI at the projector resolution?
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Jul 19, 2010 20:39
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King Hotpants posted:I have evaluated a lot of these projectors, each one for several days. All I can do is give advice, but you're under no obligation to take it. So you have reviewed the XJ-A240 that I have? May I read it? King Hotpants posted:You can't look at one uncalibrated monitor compared to another uncalibrated monitor and proclaim that it's "good enough." When I say the colors are bad, I am talking about spectrophotometer readings. It is objectively bad, especially compared to other projectors that cost about that much. As previously stated, I don't take offense here. I just noticed that some of the things being said in this thread were simply factually inaccurate or lacking important information. I strive for objectivity as much as possible. 1) You plainly stated that the output drops 25% in the first 200 hours of use, but you neglected to state that this was achieved by violating the warranty and running it for 200 hours straight. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't even the same model anyway, they were early production XJ-130's with lower lumen output and different resolution) 2) You said "you're almost forced to use Eco, which cuts lumens in half." This is objectively false. It's not even close to half in Eco1. I just hooked it up to my Coherent thermopile laser meter and it measured a 19.9% decrease between Eco1 and full power, indicating my subjective assessment was almost dead on. When going from full power to the lowest "Eco2" setting (which I don't use), I obtained a 37.6% drop in output. Where did you get a figure of 50% from? 3) I understand you want the Epson you suggested has better contrast, resolution, etc. However, you started talking about warranties, which was one of the main points of buying the Casio. When referring to the Casio, you state, "Newsflash, kids: having a 20,000 hour lamp doesn't guarantee that your projector will last for 20,000 hours. It mostly just guarantees that when something breaks, it will be something other than the lamp." Meanwhile, the Epson you suggested has a 90 day warranty on the lamp compared to the 6000 hour lamp/3 years of the Casio. Calling Casio's reliability into question while in the next breath suggesting the Epson with that warranty doesn't logically follow. 4) You're using lumen numbers on the Epson in the dynamic mode that sacrifices the very contrast you're touting it for. In reality, if you wanted to obtain the rated contrast it has, you'd have to drop it to a mode that actually cuts the lumen output in half. While it's possible that the contrast is better than the Casio regardless of this, it should be taken into consideration that it will not be as substantial as stated in similarly bright modes. 4) Someone else just stated the warranty on the light source only lasted 3000 hours. Once again, it's 6000 hr / 3 year full parts and labor. And to clarify, I didn't state that the colors are "fine." I simply wanted to do the best I could with the equipment I had to test. I wanted to show that the blue does not appear violet, which is what some people could have interpreted you were saying (I know you weren't). The laptop monitor colors appear satisfactory to me, and the projector reproduced them within standards that I found acceptable. Skin tones appear appropriate to me, but probably not up to par with those who want things scientifically calibrated to set standards. It certainly might not be a "serious" home projector, but that entirely depends on your definition of serious.
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Jul 19, 2010 20:44
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Jayls5 posted:So you have reviewed the XJ-A240 that I have? May I read it? We did. We canceled the review. It felt too much like beating a dead horse. JayIs5 posted:I just noticed that some of the things being said in this thread were simply factually inaccurate or lacking important information. I strive for objectivity as much as possible. Good, that makes two of us. quote:1) You plainly stated that the output drops 25% in the first 200 hours of use, but you neglected to state that this was achieved by violating the warranty and running it for 200 hours straight. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't even the same model anyway, they were early production XJ-130's with lower lumen output and different resolution) The point is that lumen output decreases at all, when Casio marketing repeatedly claimed that it would not. And while the models tested were A130s, they use the same light engine in the same housing. Every part of the projector except the DLP chip itself is the same. And several models tested were later-production units that had the problem "fixed." quote:2) You said "you're almost forced to use Eco, which cuts lumens in half." This is objectively false. It's not even close to half in Eco1. I just hooked it up to my Coherent thermopile laser meter and it measured a 19.9% decrease between Eco1 and full power, indicating my subjective assessment was almost dead on. When going from full power to the lowest "Eco2" setting (which I don't use), I obtained a 37.6% drop in output. Where did you get a figure of 50% from? A more recent test sample (post-fix) measured a maximum 1791 (pre-warmup) and 1629 (after warmup) in full power mode and an Eco 1 reading of 996. That is a drop of 45% if you use Casio's method of measurement and 39% if you use a real-world reading. quote:3) I understand you want the Epson you suggested has better contrast, resolution, etc. However, you started talking about warranties, which was one of the main points of buying the Casio. When referring to the Casio, you state, "Newsflash, kids: having a 20,000 hour lamp doesn't guarantee that your projector will last for 20,000 hours. It mostly just guarantees that when something breaks, it will be something other than the lamp." Meanwhile, the Epson you suggested has a 90 day warranty on the lamp compared to the 6000 hour lamp/3 years of the Casio. Calling Casio's reliability into question while in the next breath suggesting the Epson with that warranty doesn't logically follow. I suggested the Epson because it literally costs the same money and is a "real" home theater projector. And the warranty is 2 years projector/90 days lamp, not just 90 days. The Casio is exceptional in that it has a three-year light source warranty, yes. No one is arguing otherwise. But when did warranty and reliability become synonymous? Warranty coverage is nice, but I've had plenty of projectors with one-year warranties that lasted a lot longer than that. quote:4) You're using lumen numbers on the Epson in the dynamic mode that sacrifices the very contrast you're touting it for. In reality, if you wanted to obtain the rated contrast it has, you'd have to drop it to a mode that actually cuts the lumen output in half. While it's possible that the contrast is better than the Casio regardless of this, it should be taken into consideration that it will not be as substantial as stated in similarly bright modes. You nailed it. The contrast is better than the Casio regardless of image mode. Also, one does not actually need 2,000 lumens for a nice home theater image, regardless of the marketing hype surrounding higher and higher lumen numbers. Lumen output is actually one of the least important factors when picking a home theater projector. Here are some facts. The Casio is brighter than the Epson in its brightest mode (roughly 400 lumens, or 20%). The Epson has more accurate color, higher contrast, higher resolution, better brightness uniformity, better calibration capability, better connectivity, better placement flexibility, lower operating noise, and better video processing. The Casio has a longer lamp life and a longer warranty. It is becoming clear that I place value on the things the Epson excels at, while you value the things the Casio does well. The purpose of my posts has been to inform someone looking for a home theater projector that the Casio Green Slim series of projectors are lacking in certain areas. They are superb in other areas. Obviously no one has done an extended life test for the full 20,000 hours, because that would take almost three years if you never turned it off (which, as you just mentioned, would void the warranty). Doing two hours on/two hours off, it would take five and a half years. My main beef with Casio is that they made a bunch of marketing claims that don't hold up. Their lumen numbers were obtained by measuring the projector within 30 seconds of startup, which is a distortion of the ISO 21-110 protocol*. They claimed accurate color that they cannot deliver. They claimed zero lamp deterioration that they can't deliver. They claimed 1800:1 contrast which they don't have. Since the average guy can't run these tests on his own, he ends up relying on the spec sheet which tells a much different story than the actual test results. So when I see a 20,000 hour lamp life, I wonder how much distortion went into that specification - especially since the projector will be out of production years before any properly-designed evaluation would return results. * The ISO 21-118 standard dictates that a projector should be measured once lumen output has stabilized. On every projector that I have ever tested, this is accomplished by allowing the projector to warm up for 15-30 minutes while checking readings with an illuminance meter. Casio product management claims that their projector is stable immediately upon startup, so they measure immediately. Our testing has shown that the Casio projectors consistently deteriorate by 10% at minimum over the first 30 minutes of operation, and that is fresh out of the box. This was checked over no fewer than five projector samples.
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Jul 19, 2010 21:46
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King Hotpants posted:The point is that lumen output decreases at all, when Casio marketing repeatedly claimed that it would not. And while the models tested were A130s, they use the same light engine in the same housing. Every part of the projector except the DLP chip itself is the same. And several models tested were later-production units that had the problem "fixed." So have you actually tested the XJ-A240, or just the 2000 lumen models? Assuming the light engine had zero changes, their claims only got more bogus. I'm genuinely curious. Can you tell me where you got your information about Eco mode cutting output by 50%? I am simply not seeing it, subjectively or objectively. King Hotpants posted:I suggested the Epson because it literally costs the same money and is a "real" home theater projector. And the warranty is 2 years projector/90 days lamp, not just 90 days. The Casio is exceptional in that it has a three-year light source warranty, yes. No one is arguing otherwise. But when did warranty and reliability become synonymous? Warranty coverage is nice, but I've had plenty of projectors with one-year warranties that lasted a lot longer than that. I don't consider them synonymous, but I consider them to be highly correlated, or else the company would be losing money. King Hotpants posted:You nailed it. The contrast is better than the Casio regardless of image mode. Also, one does not actually need 2,000 lumens for a nice home theater image, regardless of the marketing hype surrounding higher and higher lumen numbers. Lumen output is actually one of the least important factors when picking a home theater projector. Could you elaborate on placement flexibility? I was under the impression that the size alone would have made placing the Casio easier. Another factor not mentioned: start-up time. How long is your average Mercury bulb projector? I've been told mine is shorter, not sure by how much. I'm not trying to wait to turn on the television. King Hotpants posted:The purpose of my posts has been to inform someone looking for a home theater projector that the Casio Green Slim series of projectors are lacking in certain areas. They are superb in other areas. Obviously no one has done an extended life test for the full 20,000 hours, because that would take almost three years if you never turned it off (which, as you just mentioned, would void the warranty). Doing two hours on/two hours off, it would take five and a half years. I noticed the reduction after "warm up" in the reviews, which is why I subtracted even more than that for the sake of argument  Can you tell me the approximate contrast of the Epson in the brightest (dynamic) mode compared to the contrast of the Casio in Eco1? I just wanted to get a general idea of what I'm missing.
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Jul 19, 2010 23:45
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Anyone know of a ceiling mount guaranteed to work with the Epson 8100? I'm looking at this one since it is the most sold on Amazon.
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Jul 22, 2010 00:24
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Famicom Bunko posted:Anyone know of a ceiling mount guaranteed to work with the Epson 8100? I'm looking at this one since it is the most sold on Amazon. I bought this one. Its cheap, basic, and gets the job done. And after having this (8100) projector for a week now I can say that it is glorious. It's my first projector so I have nothing to compare it to, but it exceeded my expectations. It's shooting on a 126 inch piece of black out cloth ($15 from the local fabric store) which seems to be the best option over a white sheet or wall. The difference between normal and eco-low-power mode is negligible. I haven't fiddled with many of the other settings yet, but there really doesn't seem to be a need for it. The downside: after viewing blurays on it, DVDs look comparably lovely. Maybe my player isn't upconverting very well or the screens too big? Another concern is that other projectors I've used at work usually run the fan for a few minutes even after you've initiated the shut down. The Epson seems to power off immediately. Is this as designed?
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Jul 22, 2010 16:55
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JayIs5 posted:So have you actually tested the XJ-A240, or just the 2000 lumen models? Assuming the light engine had zero changes, their claims only got more bogus. I'm genuinely curious. I saw a pre-"fix" A240 as well as a pre-fix A145, both of which are 2500 lumen models. They did not measure significantly brighter than the A130 did. I just posted my readings about eco-mode; it was 45%, I am sorry for overstating. Those were obtained first-hand with a Minolta T10 illuminance meter in a light-controlled room. JayIs5 posted:Could you elaborate on placement flexibility? I was under the impression that the size alone would have made placing the Casio easier. Placement flexibility is the ability to place a projector in different locations and have the image hit the screen at the correct size and correctly squared up. The 8100 has a 2:1 zoom lens (like the Casio) but it also has H/V lens shift, meaning you can move the image up, down, left and right without using keystone correction. In other words, if the only place you can put the projector is in the back corner of the room, the 8100 will hit the screen and the Casio won't. For a lot of people, putting the projector in the middle of the room like you've got it isn't tenable, either because it's ugly or because there's already something there. So the question is: from how many different positions will the projector provide an ideal viewing experience? As far as start-up time, the Epson will have a picture up on screen in 30 seconds, then it will warm up to full power over the next 10 minutes. It's watchable almost immediately, though. The Casio is instant-on, yes, but then it cools down, getting significantly dimmer over the next 10 minutes. I don't think start-up time is a significant difference between the two. JayIs5 posted:Can you tell me the approximate contrast of the Epson in the brightest (dynamic) mode compared to the contrast of the Casio in Eco1? I just wanted to get a general idea of what I'm missing. Contrast readings are a bitch to get. You need a completely black, non-reflective environment, which is why nobody does them. All I can tell you is that the Epson has blacker blacks and brighter highlights. Sorry I can't be more specific but I don't really have readings, just observations.
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Jul 22, 2010 17:46
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PowderKeg posted:
This is totally normal. Standard definition DVDs are never going to look as good as Blu-ray, upscaling or no. If they did, there'd be no point to Blu-ray. quote:Another concern is that other projectors I've used at work usually run the fan for a few minutes even after you've initiated the shut down. The Epson seems to power off immediately. Is this as designed? It's still on, it's just very, very quiet.
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Jul 22, 2010 17:49
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King Hotpants posted:I saw a pre-"fix" A240 as well as a pre-fix A145, both of which are 2500 lumen models. They did not measure significantly brighter than the A130 did. If that was Eco2, then our measurements aren't that far off. Or was that for Eco1? I measured both, and 1 was ~20% dimmer. King Hotpants posted:Placement flexibility is the ability to place a projector in different locations and have the image hit the screen at the correct size and correctly squared up. The 8100 has a 2:1 zoom lens (like the Casio) but it also has H/V lens shift, meaning you can move the image up, down, left and right without using keystone correction. In other words, if the only place you can put the projector is in the back corner of the room, the 8100 will hit the screen and the Casio won't. Ahh! I see. Yeah I thought you were referring to actual mounting depth capability, and I thought that would go hands down to the Casio because it's so much smaller. By the way, I'm not leaving my in the center of the room like you've seen in the picture from my other thread. I was just waiting for my 30' HDMI cable to come in so we could build a mount for the ceiling. King Hotpants posted:As far as start-up time, the Epson will have a picture up on screen in 30 seconds, then it will warm up to full power over the next 10 minutes. It's watchable almost immediately, though. The Casio is instant-on, yes, but then it cools down, getting significantly dimmer over the next 10 minutes. I don't think start-up time is a significant difference between the two. The turn on time isn't too bad then! If you'd like, I can test the decrease in brightness after 10 minutes in my "post-fix" model. King Hotpants posted:Contrast readings are a bitch to get. You need a completely black, non-reflective environment, which is why nobody does them. All I can tell you is that the Epson has blacker blacks and brighter highlights. Sorry I can't be more specific but I don't really have readings, just observations. Fair enough. My roommate and I have actually painted my wall to improve the contrast, and it has worked wonders. I'll post a pic in my other thread so I'm not hogging up all of the review space here.
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Jul 23, 2010 15:59
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King Hotpants posted:I mean too bright. Like too much light on the screen. I'm a newbie at this stuff... would high lumens help you with a room that gets a lot of ambient light? I'm thinking of doing a setup where the projector might be 20 to 25 feet away from the screen.
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Aug 17, 2010 16:43
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