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TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009
I saw that article too, and it makes sense, though it's very aggravating that ADHD's symptoms masquerade as immaturity in a lot of cases. Then again I think Asperger's suffers the same treatment; people tend to recognize it as a "real" condition despite how much they make fun of it.

On another note, I feel like I'm cheating now. I get all the benefits of being a "normal" person during the week while on meds and during my time off I can enjoy all the benefits of ADHD. My mental multitasking is insane off meds, like tonight I was at a concert singing along, counting & keeping time, and fending off the growing mosh pit all at the same time.

I must say, for those of you who are lurking, or even posting, and have apprehensions about medication, please don't do what I did and shun it for a large period of time where it could have been incredibly useful because you want to "man up" or "tough it out" or whatever you're thinking. The difference on and off meds is the difference between day and night for me, and I can't imagine trying to be successful in everyday endeavors without medication anymore.

I love adderall, and I love that all it takes is a magic pill to make me a "normal" person who doesn't have to struggle every moment of every day trying to make it through life.

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Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003

Area 51. You heard of it, right?





Fallen Rib
Don't put too much stock in that article, it doesn't seem to be academically rigorous. He cites the statistic of 10% being diagnosed from an article by Zuvekas et al, but that article does not support the citation. It in fact says that diagnosis rates are as they should be in accordance with the DSM statistics.

The Zuvekas article is at http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/163/4/579

The Evans article is at http://www4.ncsu.edu/~msmorril/EvansMorrill_ADHD.pdf

There is certainly a problem of young children being diagnosed as ADHD, but there is no problem of overdiagnosis. He's trying to make a point about medical spending but using a poor premise to support this. Still, the problem of young children being more likely to be diagnosed may be true, I don't know. It seems likely to me based on my experience in the field.

Aculard
Oct 15, 2007

by Ozmaugh
FOOD.

How does everyone get enough of it in them while on this damned medication? I'm hopefully switching to instant release adderall to combat this, but what's everyone who pretty much becomes anorexic on this stuff game plans?

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009

Aculard posted:

FOOD.

How does everyone get enough of it in them while on this damned medication? I'm hopefully switching to instant release adderall to combat this, but what's everyone who pretty much becomes anorexic on this stuff game plans?

Are you just not remembering to eat, or are you not hungry and have to force the food down?

I've been on instant release for awhile, and it's just forgetting with me. Once I start eating I realize I'm pretty hungry, but I never get hungry enough to overeat in the slightest, which is a good thing. After a couple of months of being on the meds I don't really forget or neglect eating, but I do tend to procrastinate. I must say, however, it's nice being able to really focus on work sometimes and not be interrupted by feeling incredibly hungry.

Slaapaav
Mar 3, 2006

by Azathoth
Holy poo poo! I was the youngest in my class.

Slaapaav
Mar 3, 2006

by Azathoth

TheGopher posted:

I saw that article too, and it makes sense, though it's very aggravating that ADHD's symptoms masquerade as immaturity in a lot of cases. Then again I think Asperger's suffers the same treatment; people tend to recognize it as a "real" condition despite how much they make fun of it.

On another note, I feel like I'm cheating now. I get all the benefits of being a "normal" person during the week while on meds and during my time off I can enjoy all the benefits of ADHD. My mental multitasking is insane off meds, like tonight I was at a concert singing along, counting & keeping time, and fending off the growing mosh pit all at the same time.

I must say, for those of you who are lurking, or even posting, and have apprehensions about medication, please don't do what I did and shun it for a large period of time where it could have been incredibly useful because you want to "man up" or "tough it out" or whatever you're thinking. The difference on and off meds is the difference between day and night for me, and I can't imagine trying to be successful in everyday endeavors without medication anymore.

I love adderall, and I love that all it takes is a magic pill to make me a "normal" person who doesn't have to struggle every moment of every day trying to make it through life.

To the people lurking out there, I would like to say that this guy is very much not the only one with these experiences. Almost the exact words I would use too describe it.

RandomJapaneseGirl
Jul 7, 2010
^ Definitely.

After three weeks on concerta 18mg and now almost two weeks on concerta 36 (which seems about perfect) I really wish that I had been diagnosed years and years ago. I can function now - I'm getting things done and I don't dread doing the non-fun stuff, because now I can focus on getting it done instead of it eating up my entire day while OH LOOK A KITTEN.

It's important to understand that you will still have to choose to do work. My first few days on concerta, I was really focused on playing a video game (even my gaming is more productive!). I realized very quickly that the meds wouldn't make me do the work, I had to do that myself. The concerta however made it effortless for me to choose to stop playing, start doing my work, and stay focused on it until it is finished.

I've also found that now I take the initiative on extra projects. Before the meds, I had devolved into a very low-functioning do-what-I-need-to-barely-survive type of lifestyle. Now that I can focus however, I know that I can get things done instead of leaving them half-finished - so I don't hesitate to do some extra work.

I was raised to fear medication and taught that I could fix everything myself if only I wasn't so lazy. I know my mother meant well, however I also understand now how wrong she was.

I feel so good about myself now. I feel bloody fantastic. At 33 years old I'm finally in control of my life.

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009

RandomJapaneseGirl posted:

I'm getting things done and I don't dread doing the non-fun stuff, because now I can focus on getting it done instead of it eating up my entire day while OH LOOK A KITTEN.

The big word in that sentence is "dread." It's not that we're lazy, it's that trivial tasks become overwhelming because it is such an ordeal to do the most basic things. ADHDers do not have a very good sense of time, so things that in reality take 15-20 minutes feel like hours. There are times when I'm folding laundry and it literally feels like it will never end. Combined with the fact that these tasks are so difficult to finish because at any second our attention just drops without even realizing it until an hour or so later later after you've reasearched everything there is to know about the British House of Commons on Wikipedia. Then the anxiety kicks in becasue you still haven't finished folding laundry and have to pull yourself away to go finish it, but now all your clothes are wrinkled so there's no point in finishing because you'll just pull them out of the basket during the week. Then because all your clean clothes are in your laundry basket you can't put your dirty clothes there and the disorganization starts...

Maybe not everybody has this one, but laundry is my arch-nemesis. Since I started on the medication it hasn't been this much of a struggle and I even iron my dress shirts when I'm done with washing them until waiting 20 minutes before I need to walk out the door. :3:

Effexxor
May 26, 2008

Aculard posted:

FOOD.

How does everyone get enough of it in them while on this damned medication? I'm hopefully switching to instant release adderall to combat this, but what's everyone who pretty much becomes anorexic on this stuff game plans?

Meh, I've always had the opposite effect with Adderall. If I don't eat within a half hour of taking my adderall, the stomach cramps are terrible. I have to eat or face pain, which is annoying as hell.

The Riscaa
May 24, 2007
I was treated for adhd when I was a kid. I stopped taking the meds I was on (dexamphetimine) about 15 years ago because the side effects were not good. I felt this treatment totally stripped me of personality :/. Are the treatments better these days for leaving you in tact or do you still end up like a zombie. At the time all we had was ritalin and dexamphetimine and they were both terrible for messing you up.

I still have problems with focus and completing a lot of tasks but I have learnt to live with it. I also have a partner who has only known me off meds and I dont want a drastic change 10 years into a relationship....

fyo
Mar 9, 2007
smugly conventional

Paramemetic posted:

Don't put too much stock in that article, it doesn't seem to be academically rigorous. He cites the statistic of 10% being diagnosed from an article by Zuvekas et al, but that article does not support the citation. It in fact says that diagnosis rates are as they should be in accordance with the DSM statistics.

The Zuvekas article is at http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/163/4/579

The Evans article is at http://www4.ncsu.edu/~msmorril/EvansMorrill_ADHD.pdf

There is certainly a problem of young children being diagnosed as ADHD, but there is no problem of overdiagnosis. He's trying to make a point about medical spending but using a poor premise to support this. Still, the problem of young children being more likely to be diagnosed may be true, I don't know. It seems likely to me based on my experience in the field.

I haven't read the full article, but even the methodology is perfect, more studies will be needed to make a strong claim for this kind of basic correlational stuff.

The logic does make total sense to me though. I mean, basically what the authors are arguing for is tipping the conceptual balance towards the nurture side of things. Assume Elementary and High School is supposed to teach kids to sit at a desk and focus on work, and it does this by increasing the amount of time that they have to focus on tasks bit by bit, year after year. If a kid doesn't fall into this system early on, they're going to lag, and that gap will widen for every year that they aren't "corrected." The Zuvekas article's assertion could be one reason why a child may fall out of step, boredom is another (im sure we'd all like to believe we were too smart/creative for our early schooling), or the parents might not be doing their part. Of course then you can get into some kind of nature vs nurture sub-debate, and suggest that children don't focus early on because their ADD switch is on.

Personally, I prefer to stick to the Hunter vs Farmer theory on the nature side of things, because :black101:

Effexxor
May 26, 2008

The Riscaa posted:

I was treated for adhd when I was a kid. I stopped taking the meds I was on (dexamphetimine) about 15 years ago because the side effects were not good. I felt this treatment totally stripped me of personality :/. Are the treatments better these days for leaving you in tact or do you still end up like a zombie. At the time all we had was ritalin and dexamphetimine and they were both terrible for messing you up.

I still have problems with focus and completing a lot of tasks but I have learnt to live with it. I also have a partner who has only known me off meds and I dont want a drastic change 10 years into a relationship....

What specifically were your side effects, and what's the level of diagnosis that you had? Did you visit a psychiatrist, or did you go to a general practitioner? I've never had issues with feeling like a zombie on Adderall. I've felt like my stomach was twisting up inside of me but I've never felt like I was less than I am, only better. You might want to go to a psychiatrist and talk to them about what your issues are. There are a lot of of different options for ADHD now, so it's worth a try if you're still having issues.

Special A
Nov 6, 2004

TELL ME WHAT YOU KNOW!

TheGopher posted:

The big word in that sentence is "dread." It's not that we're lazy, it's that trivial tasks become overwhelming because it is such an ordeal to do the most basic things. ADHDers do not have a very good sense of time, so things that in reality take 15-20 minutes feel like hours. There are times when I'm folding laundry and it literally feels like it will never end. Combined with the fact that these tasks are so difficult to finish because at any second our attention just drops without even realizing it until an hour or so later later after you've reasearched everything there is to know about the British House of Commons on Wikipedia. Then the anxiety kicks in becasue you still haven't finished folding laundry and have to pull yourself away to go finish it, but now all your clothes are wrinkled so there's no point in finishing because you'll just pull them out of the basket during the week. Then because all your clean clothes are in your laundry basket you can't put your dirty clothes there and the disorganization starts...

Maybe not everybody has this one, but laundry is my arch-nemesis. Since I started on the medication it hasn't been this much of a struggle and I even iron my dress shirts when I'm done with washing them until waiting 20 minutes before I need to walk out the door. :3:

Holy poo poo. Did I just post that? That's my exact experience, and not just with laundry but with organization in general. For example, at work, I'll start with my desk relatively organized, and then the paperwork starts to build up. Normally I'll just file things away according to where they belong, but sometimes I'll get distracted by whatever (sometimes other work, sometimes random internet searching). Once things start to pile up the anxiety starts and I can't function because there are too many things on my desk. But I can't get rid of them unless I review them... I love these cycles.

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff

I just got back from the Audiologist, and my actual hearing is excellent. :toot:

No noise induced hearing loss (earplugs work, kids!), no bone or inner issues, etc. However, she definitely thinks that I have some Auditory Processing issues. She can't make a definite diagnosis, because she doesn't do testing for that, but she is pretty sure that that's the root of my hearing issues. All the symptoms I'm describing + the diagnosis of ADHD + a lack of actual hearing loss all point to Auditory Processing issues for her.

Annoyed that I have Auditory Processing issues, obviously, but glad that it's not something else - especially noise induced hearing loss. I'm not going to pursue more testing for it right now, that'll just be spending money that I don't have for a definitive diagnosis of a condition that can't be treated adequately, because now I'm an adult. And since ADHD and APD are co-morbid a lot of the time (including me, apparently), the diagnosis of ADHD should be enough in case I need it to get accommodations for work or school.

However, I'm also glad that I'm not imagining things here, my brain is truly twisting what I'm hearing into gibberish. Awesome. Thanks, brain. Thanks.

Lumb
Jun 29, 2007
e:

Lumb fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Sep 5, 2010

Jolan
Feb 5, 2007

Aculard posted:

FOOD.

How does everyone get enough of it in them while on this damned medication? I'm hopefully switching to instant release adderall to combat this, but what's everyone who pretty much becomes anorexic on this stuff game plans?

I've always been overweight, so I don't really mind my apetite being reduced by the meds. It's better, in fact: if I'm caught up in work, I hardly ever feel a craving for something, so I don't stuff my face full of chocolate or candy. I do, however, try to take a short break every now and then to eat some fruit or some other healthy food, without really feeling the need for it. So ritalin and concerta help me to eat healthier.

Of course, this only works when I'm really caught up in my work. Otherwise I procastinate by eating ("after this candy bar, I'll start... well, okay, another cookie first, then..."). And I always have to watch myself at night, when the meds wear off and the rebound hits, that tends to give me a horrible urge to stuff my face full of sweet or salty crap as well.

So no, I can't say the meds are pushing me into anorexia.


New Character posted:

Hello Goons.

I realize that only being able to focus on one task sounds like virtually the polar opposite of ADHD, ...

I recognise what you're describing, I'm troubled with it too from time to time, but not as extreme as you seem to be experiencing it. Were you diagnosed, and if so, was it ADHD or ADD? Are you taking meds?

Willpower does help: when you're unsure what to do first, just randomly pick either one and follow it through. It needs to be done anyways, and the time you're thinking about it is precious time you're not doing anything, and all those short whiles add up to alot in the end. I tend to overthink and overanalyse as a safeguard against my impulsiveness, but that often led to me being indecisive and not doing anything, and I've had to find a balance between the two.
If you have to choose between something "important" (like a paper) and something trivial (like a videogame), force yourself to choose the more important one. It's not always easy to focus on what you have to do instead of what you want to do, but you can always finish that game after the paper deadline has passed.

To address the piece of your post I quoted, ADHD does not mean zero concentration. It means you have significantly more trouble keeping focus on certain tasks in comparison to "the average person", or perhaps more precisely, that you have more trouble distributing your focus in the best/most productive way possible. But many people with ADHD tend to hyperfocus as well. This is one of the bigger reasons they have trouble with time management: they start doing something and lose themselves in it completely, only emerging out of that focus trance a good long while later when they realise they spent a nice big chunk of their day. It can be countered somewhat by constantly second-guessing yourself, "should I be doing this? why?", but it's really draining on you at first (if you even manage to overcome the hyperfocus enough to ask yourself what you're doing in the first place, that is).

So yeah, to me it does sound like an issue that could be related to ADHD. If you haven't already, get yourself checked out and get some meds prescribed, and see how taking those helps. Don't expect to be superman overnight with them, but they can help you tremendously to get a better grip on your behavior.


(Edit: and now I've hyperfocussed on this post for over half an hour. :) )

Jolan fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Aug 28, 2010

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009
It makes me very sad that people keep coming into this topic with classic ADHD symptoms but think only conscious focus is the main issue...

I wish there were more effort informing people in general what ADHD really is. The part about having difficulties paying attention to the task at hand is such a small part of the condition, it'd be like saying bipolar people are either really sad or really happy. It sort of describes the condition, but it's not accurate and would be incredibly insulting to tell that person "Why can't you just have normal emotions? Just stop getting so worked up." Nobody in their right mind would say to that somebody with bipolar disorder, so why do ADHDers have to listen to everybody telling us to just stop being lazy?

Lumb
Jun 29, 2007
edit

Lumb fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Oct 12, 2010

casual poster
Jun 29, 2009

So casual.

Jolan posted:

Were you diagnosed, and if so, was it ADHD or ADD? Are you taking meds?


Isn't ADHD just the new term for ADD?

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009

casual poster posted:

Isn't ADHD just the new term for ADD?

Yes, and there are three subtypes, hyperactive-impulsive, predominantly inattentive, or both. However, in years past ADD and ADHD were used to describe the differences between the inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive subtypes respectively.

Paramemetic
Sep 29, 2003

Area 51. You heard of it, right?





Fallen Rib

TheGopher posted:

I wish there were more effort informing people in general what ADHD really is. The part about having difficulties paying attention to the task at hand is such a small part of the condition

The current research says that ADHD is less about being unable to pay attention and more about being unable to direct attention, and especially towards tasks that require sustained mental effort.

Jolan
Feb 5, 2007

casual poster posted:

Isn't ADHD just the new term for ADD?

Well, yes, but in my experience there's a difference between people who are hyperactive and those who aren't, in that for people without the blatant hyperactivity it seems to be more of a hidden and chronic issue, often not recognised for years and written off as just laziness. It's basically the same, of course, but in different variations.

I'm diagnosed with ADD myself, although I did use to be a pretty hyper child when I was young. I've attended a psycho-educational course about ADHD in spring, and besides me there was one other woman who had ADD, the other six had a very obvious hyperactivity to their behavior. Even though everyone talked about the same issues, the way they presented themselves seemed to correspond a lot more between me and the ADD-woman than between me and the rest of the group. But yes, again, basically it's the same.

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff

Mini trip report.

Now that I'm *off* the Adderall, I'm *losing* weight. No real complaints about that, but it's weird.

I love my bizarroworld body. :psyduck:

Kikka
Feb 10, 2010

I POST STUPID STUFF ABOUT DOCTOR WHO
For my entire life, I have had trouble concetrating in school. I think I spent 80% of my time in classes just "zoning out" (starting to think about things and paying no attention to anything else) without having any control over it. I also had rage and anxiety problems as a kid, but luckily only the anxiety problem exists today. The only times I manage to pay attention and memorize anything from school is when I find something interesting, which is not very often and mostly something irrelevant like a tidbit from art class.

I've also had huge problems with mathematics and logistics all through my life; I just recently got over simple adding and substraction being very troublesome and frustrating and I still can't do basic dividing without really putting my mind into it. Every time I have to solve a maths problem I feel like my brain starts to jam up and I usually solve the problem in the slowest and most intricate way.
I often find myself approaching logical problems with logical solutions in very illogical and complex ways.

It's very hard for me to start any form of schoolwork by myself. I know I should do my homework and do that essay and read that book, but I just find myself not doing anything about it. It's almost like I have to force myself to do even simple school tasks. For example, I once performed a personal miracle and managed to read for a history essay atleast some amount every day for two weeks. Exam rolls up, and I remember nothing. Absolutely nothing from all the stuff that I read. It's a real downer.


Should I seek help?

Kikka fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 30, 2010

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff

Kikka posted:

I've also had huge problems with mathematics and logistics all through my life; I just recently got over simple adding and substraction being very troublesome and frustrating and I still can't do basic dividing without really putting my mind into it. Every time I have to solve a maths problem I feel like my brain starts to jam up and I usually solve the problem in the slowest and most intricate way.
I often find myself approaching logical problems with logical solutions in very illogical and complex ways.

Should I seek help?

First of all, with the math thing, this describes me to a T. And it's even to the point that when I describe it to professionals (my doctor, etc.), I give the caveat that I'm not afraid of math. As a bunch of concepts, I find them really interesting, and I even enjoy doing logic puzzles and playing chess for fun. However, when I try to actually do it, my brain feels like it literally grinds to a halt, and this includes my beloved logic puzzles and chess. Sometimes, that's hard to convey. I love playing chess, but I'm also so bad at it.

As for getting help, I say that if you have the means to do so, and you are currently finding the symptoms to be disruptive, definitely do so. I think that it's better to check out something that turns out to be a non-issue, rather than ignore something that later you find out it could have been treated. And if you get a doctor or other professional who you feel doesn't listen to your concerns, or takes them seriously, feel free to seek out a second opinion if possible. My old GP 'didn't believe' in adult ADHD, despite it causing me a world of hurt. Consequently, he's no longer my GP. :colbert:

Good luck.

Rushputin
Jul 19, 2007
Intense, but quick to finish

Qu Appelle posted:

I love playing chess, but I'm also so bad at it.

Chess and maths don't have a whole lot to do with each other, though. The "secret" to good chess playing is A) memorizing a lot of standard situations and storing board setups and piece positions in chunks rather than analyzing every situation individually and B) thinking ahead several moves and keeping dangers and opportunities of potential actions in mind.

I'm guessing that for you and other ADHD sufferers, point B) is the main problem, and at the same time the thing that makes maths so difficult. In the latter, once you go beyond whatever simple calculations you memorized as a child, you have to keep several bits of information and intermediate solutions in your working memory and then put them together. This obviously gives us trouble. If that article posted some time ago is right and ADHD is mostly a problem of the central executive, the CE is having trouble prioritizing what goes into working memory, so where a "normal" person could keep, say, six chess moves or calculations in mind for a short while, we manage maybe half of that, and the rest is filled up with the pattern of that guy's sweater, last night's episode of a TV show and a great idea for tonight's dinner.

I guess I just pointed out that chess and maths actually do have a lot in common, but in a way, problems with working memory affect all intellectual tasks and are probably responsible for a lot of ADHD symptoms.

Kikka
Feb 10, 2010

I POST STUPID STUFF ABOUT DOCTOR WHO

Qu Appelle posted:

First of all, with the math thing, this describes me to a T. And it's even to the point that when I describe it to professionals (my doctor, etc.), I give the caveat that I'm not afraid of math. As a bunch of concepts, I find them really interesting, and I even enjoy doing logic puzzles and playing chess for fun. However, when I try to actually do it, my brain feels like it literally grinds to a halt, and this includes my beloved logic puzzles and chess. Sometimes, that's hard to convey. I love playing chess, but I'm also so bad at it.

Holy crap, that's exactly how I feel. I like to visualize the feeling by my mind being a machinery made out of thin clock gears and maths being like pouring tons of sand and tar on it.

fyallm
Feb 27, 2007



College Slice
I think I'm going to look into a psychiatrist... I have never really wanted to do this, or take any drugs but I really want to be more productive at work, and just more productive in general, and not feel so useless... Also MY GF just finished reading the book and jotted some notes down to help me with remembering certain things so hopefully that helps...


Is there anything I should look into when searching for a psychiatrist?

misplaced axon
Sep 23, 2009
I was tested for ADD in high school (10 or 12 years ago). I remember being told to look at a screen and either a '1' or a '2' would pop up and I would press '1' or '2'. After a couple hundred of those I was given headphones and did the same thing only aurally. The doc printed out a histogram of my response times as compared to 'normal' and if I remember correctly my response time for the visual cues was more or less normal but for the auditory cues was considerably slower than normal. Then there was some sort of band that measured electrical signals in my finger and also took its temperature. Any idea what these were testing for and how?

The conclusion was that I had some ADD symptoms but would probably grow out of it by my mid 20s. I think that's mostly true though if I try to take on a big project or one without much direction either at work or personally I tend to spend a lot of time spinning my wheels (surfing the internet).

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff

Rushputin posted:

Chess and maths don't have a whole lot to do with each other, though. The "secret" to good chess playing is A) memorizing a lot of standard situations and storing board setups and piece positions in chunks rather than analyzing every situation individually and B) thinking ahead several moves and keeping dangers and opportunities of potential actions in mind.

I'm guessing that for you and other ADHD sufferers, point B) is the main problem, and at the same time the thing that makes maths so difficult. In the latter, once you go beyond whatever simple calculations you memorized as a child, you have to keep several bits of information and intermediate solutions in your working memory and then put them together. This obviously gives us trouble. If that article posted some time ago is right and ADHD is mostly a problem of the central executive, the CE is having trouble prioritizing what goes into working memory, so where a "normal" person could keep, say, six chess moves or calculations in mind for a short while, we manage maybe half of that, and the rest is filled up with the pattern of that guy's sweater, last night's episode of a TV show and a great idea for tonight's dinner.

I guess I just pointed out that chess and maths actually do have a lot in common, but in a way, problems with working memory affect all intellectual tasks and are probably responsible for a lot of ADHD symptoms.

This makes a lot of sense, thank you!

I agree that chess and math differ a bit. And with chess, memorizing patterns is good - I'm learning to do this for the starting moves, at least and the more I play, the more I learn.

How you described 'B' fits to a tee. It feels like a combination of impaired working memory allocation (with the 'slots' filled with extraneous data) and a very low threshold for frustration. I could even tell a small difference in this with my stint on Adderall - when I finally quelled the anxiety, I felt like I could fill the short term memory with more data, recall it more, and use that data in a calmer manner. But then the anxiety would well up. Now, it's less accessible, but when I get frustrated with something, like having my Queen pinned by the opposition with seemingly no way out, I won't sit and ponder and churn out all the permutations and eventually solve the problem. I'll just go 'oh, screw this noise' and hit the 'New Game' button after a minute or so, in a combination of frustration and not really giving a crud about it all.

Effexxor
May 26, 2008

fyallm posted:

I think I'm going to look into a psychiatrist... I have never really wanted to do this, or take any drugs but I really want to be more productive at work, and just more productive in general, and not feel so useless... Also MY GF just finished reading the book and jotted some notes down to help me with remembering certain things so hopefully that helps...


Is there anything I should look into when searching for a psychiatrist?

Woo! I just reread it myself, I forgot how good it is. Look for a psychiatrist that tells it to you straight, aka won't sugar coat everything, and someone with a lot of experience with stimulants and other ADHD meds. They should also be familiar with the newest data and medications, and should answer you fully when you ask about what the meds are like. Also, they should want to see you back a month after you first start taking the meds, because they have to make sure you're doing well on the medication.

Edit: Also, I had a really interesting conversation with a stereotypically ADHD friend of my boyfriend. The strangest thing for me was that he was completely against taking 'chemicals' and yet drinks caffeine to calm down and alcohol to 'make his mind just stop for a while'. The irony blew me away. Why not just take a pill that works even better, still allows you to function, and is easy and cheap (he has good insurance, so it would be).

Effexxor fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Sep 3, 2010

TheGopher
Sep 7, 2009

Effexxor posted:

Why not just take a pill that works even better, still allows you to function, and is easy and cheap (he has good insurance, so it would be).

I don't have an answer. I have a friend who is in a similar spot, but he knows he's loving up, obviously as a result of ADHD he refuses to recognize, but he wont do anything about it. He just got kicked out of school less than half a year away from graduating and moved back in with his mom. He saw me do the same thing years ago with this kind of poo poo and now I'm on salary and make a shitload more money than I ever thought I would at my age (it's a modest salary on the scale of salaries, but how the gently caress did I even get a salary?). I've been harping on and on about the success of adderall and how it's changed my life for the better, but he will not budge.

He'll constantly just flat out lie to get out of situations, but I digress. I have no idea why it is some of us ADHDers at one point had enough motivation to say "Enough is enough," and go get the help we need to perform in regular life but there are still a large number of people who will suffer through every endeavor, only proving the people around them right in the end that they were just lazy and needed to try harder, even though medication would have given them the same result.

It makes me really sad to see the people who can benefit from medication/therapy the most are the biggest victims of misinformation. If nobody knew anything about ADHD except doctors and those with it it'd be so much better than all this negative attention it receives all because its medication is a controlled substance. We sometimes get written off as drug seeking when people find out we take medication for it, and when we don't take medication we're just lazy and unmotivated.

gently caress the social stigmas of this condition, but since I've been able to be successful at work while taking medication, I would never trade in my ADHD, and I can't imagine life without it.

Malloc Voidstar
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.

Aculard posted:

FOOD.

How does everyone get enough of it in them while on this damned medication? I'm hopefully switching to instant release adderall to combat this, but what's everyone who pretty much becomes anorexic on this stuff game plans?
If you find out, let me know!

My psychiatrist told me to call her immediately if I lose more than X pounds in a month on my medication. Then she weighed me and I've lost 7X pounds in two months :buddy:

How the hell do I eat when I'm not hungry?
Also, yay, finally found something that makes me concentrate (Vyvanse 40mg)

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff

Aleksei Vasiliev posted:

If you find out, let me know!

My psychiatrist told me to call her immediately if I lose more than X pounds in a month on my medication. Then she weighed me and I've lost 7X pounds in two months :buddy:

How the hell do I eat when I'm not hungry?
Also, yay, finally found something that makes me concentrate (Vyvanse 40mg)

How does the food physically taste for you? Because when I went on Adderall, it made everything taste AWESOME - and I couldn't stop eating sometimes, even though I knew that I wasn't hungry. Especially sweet, salty, and spicy foods. Oh man did I crave the spiciest stuff. Your stomach doesn't like it when you put habanero sauce and garlic pepper on everything. Consequently, I gained a few pounds, and had to monitor what I ate on a daily basis. Which was a new experience for me. (Yeah - I gained weight while on speed. I don't know what the gently caress either. My doc was pretty stunned by this.)

However, I lost weight on Wellbutrin, because it made everything taste flat, like cardboard. And I had to make sure that I didn't lose too much weight. When I was having those problems, I made sure that what I did eat was as calorie laden as I could make it, without it being unhealthy. So, having a peanut butter sandwich? Put more peanut butter on it. Getting a latte? Have it made with whole milk instead of 2% or skim. If you feel a craving for anything that is even remotely healthy, indulge in it. The one thing that I knew I could eat, even when I had no appetite, was a veggie and roasted garlic pizza. So I ordered those quite often.

Moms Stuffing
Jun 2, 2005

the little green one
I went to a psychiatrist with my anxiety problems and came back with an ADD diagnosis.

This sounds really stupid, but I am actually a little ashamed. I feel like I don't really have ADD, I'm just being lazy about controlling my stupid brain, which is ridiculous because I've never been able to do that. I haven't told anyone in my family yet, half of them are big time deniers of things like ADD, ADHD, autism etc. :smith:

Slaapaav
Mar 3, 2006

by Azathoth

Moms Stuffing posted:

I went to a psychiatrist with my anxiety problems and came back with an ADD diagnosis.

This sounds really stupid, but I am actually a little ashamed. I feel like I don't really have ADD, I'm just being lazy about controlling my stupid brain, which is ridiculous because I've never been able to do that. I haven't told anyone in my family yet, half of them are big time deniers of things like ADD, ADHD, autism etc. :smith:

I believe a lot of the people in the thread was here at some point. When you start taking drugs you will never doubt that you have it any more. It will be like the difference between night and day.

RandomJapaneseGirl
Jul 7, 2010

Moms Stuffing posted:

I went to a psychiatrist with my anxiety problems and came back with an ADD diagnosis.

This sounds really stupid, but I am actually a little ashamed. I feel like I don't really have ADD, I'm just being lazy about controlling my stupid brain, which is ridiculous because I've never been able to do that. I haven't told anyone in my family yet, half of them are big time deniers of things like ADD, ADHD, autism etc. :smith:

I understand where you're coming from here.

My mother is anti-medication, frequently distrusts doctors, and believes anything can be fixed with enough willpower. After just over a month of being diagnosed and medicated, I still haven't told her about it. I don't see her that often (I'm 33 and live a few hours away from her), so I haven't felt a pressing need to explain about how awesome I feel now, and what a big help this diagnosis/medication has been.

However, I think it's important to have the support of family (if at all possible), so I'm going to tell her. I've been reading ADD books like crazy over the last few weeks ("Delivered from Distraction" and "Answers to Distraction" in particular, and I am so far liking "So I'm not crazy, stupid or lazy?") - and highlighting/sticky noting anything I read that particularly applies to me or that I think would be helpful in explaining all of this to my mother (and by extension, the rest of my family). When I finish reading the current book in a week or so, I'm going to put together all of the information and essentially give my mother a huge book report. It will have information on my medication, the history/symptoms/diagnosis of ADD, how she can adjust her attitude/responses to me so that she can help me instead of hinder, and anything else that I can find that will be useful.

If all of this does nothing to sway her, then I will know I've done my best and will be able to have a reference point for her if she starts to be contrary about anything - and I'll have a list of resources I'll send her to if she pulls out her "well, I read on the internet..." card.

casual poster
Jun 29, 2009

So casual.

Moms Stuffing posted:

I haven't told anyone in my family yet, half of them are big time deniers of things like ADD, ADHD, autism etc. :smith:

I dont mean to derail, but how can someone deny autism?

Rushputin
Jul 19, 2007
Intense, but quick to finish

casual poster posted:

I dont mean to derail, but how can someone deny autism?

Lazy bums just need to make an effort and learn how to socialize.

Alternatively: Demonic possession. Wouldn't even surprise me. Much.

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Malloc Voidstar
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.

casual poster posted:

I dont mean to derail, but how can someone deny autism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children

they aren't autistic, they are the telepathic next stage of human evolution

MESSAGES FROM THE EARTH MOTHER II: INDIGO CHILDREN, ADD, AUTISM AND ASCENSION THE NEXT PHASE OF GENERATIONAL ASCENSION DEFINED

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