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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:When you really get down to it, full dragons are rare too. Though the Sorcerer Kings are actively working towards becoming dragons, they haven't reached that point yet. The only ones to reach dragonhood are Borys and Rajaat. A few Avangions have been mentioned in the fluff or novels from what I've seen. I'm pretty sure that Rajaat wasn't a dragon, and the discovery of the dragon transformation didn't occur until after he was already imprisoned. Also from what I remember there were two avangions mentioned, Oronis and a second one that ends up getting killed in some adventure or another.
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Sep 9, 2010 16:23
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ManMythLegend posted:I'm pretty sure that Rajaat wasn't a dragon, and the discovery of the dragon transformation didn't occur until after he was already imprisoned. Wait, so what if Rajaat got out only to discover he was now way behind the power curve compared to the SKs?
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Sep 9, 2010 20:35
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Maybe thats part of the plan? Keep Rajaat sealed away long enough for everyone to surpass him, then let him go? Can't be cheap keeping him sealed away.
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Sep 9, 2010 20:41
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Yeah, looking back, Rajaat was definately not a dragon since he wasn't human and only humans can become dragons. Also, in AD&D, Rajaat was the closest thing Athas had to a god. Even without being a dragon he would be more than a match for one in a one on one fight. That's why all the SK's had to team up to be him. Dregoth might be a little tougher with all his extra shenanigans, but I. Would still give it to Rajaat.
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Sep 9, 2010 21:00
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Rajaat wasn't human? So why did he want to kill all non-humans? Was he one of those self-hating elves?
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Sep 9, 2010 22:19
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he was a halfling lover
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Sep 9, 2010 22:41
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:When you really get down to it, full dragons are rare too. Though the Sorcerer Kings are actively working towards becoming dragons, they haven't reached that point yet. The only ones to reach dragonhood are Borys and Rajaat. A few Avangions have been mentioned in the fluff or novels from what I've seen. The SKs are as much dragons as Oronis and Korgunard are avangions, perhaps even more so. Korgunard, in game terms, only got to level 21 or 22; Oronis got maybe a little further. Additionally, the SKs are not the only defilers to (begin to) transform into dragons. At least two published adventures feature low level dragons as villains. quote:I'm pretty sure that Rajaat wasn't a dragon, and the discovery of the dragon transformation didn't occur until after he was already imprisoned. I'm pretty sure the ritual that imprisoned him was also responsible for setting the SKs on their path. I believe it turned Borys straight into a level 30 dragon, and the rest into level 21s. In 2E, the imprisoning ritual was also what gave the SKs the ability to grant divine spells. quote:he was a halfling lover Could be worse. What if he was a kender lover?!?
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Sep 9, 2010 23:13
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I think I read somewhere that Rajaat was a Pyreen originally? Albeit a whacked and twisted one?
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Sep 9, 2010 23:27
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Kestrekel Appreciation Station Kestrekels, the best level 1 minions:  Some earth imagery that seems very Dark Sunny after a bit of crappy photoshop:  The Athasian farmer's delight. Mudflats.jpg 
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Sep 9, 2010 23:36
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Rajaat had a kender lover, for more information check my profile at literotica.com
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Sep 9, 2010 23:36
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The whole 2e dragon thing with Rajaat makes a lot of sense now. I always assumed he reached that point because he was that powerful.PeterWeller posted:I'm pretty sure the ritual that imprisoned him was also responsible for setting the SKs on their path. I believe it turned Borys straight into a level 30 dragon, and the rest into level 21s. In 2E, the imprisoning ritual was also what gave the SKs the ability to grant divine spells. Ritual magic in 2e Darksun is rad as gently caress then. If you did something of that caliber in the Forgotten Realms, a couple of the casters would die. Not that becoming an abomination like the SK's isn't bad but it's better than just going up in a pillar of magic flame.
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Sep 10, 2010 00:04
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Sanzuo posted:I think I read somewhere that Rajaat was a Pyreen originally? Albeit a whacked and twisted one? That's correct. He was a pyreen, but born twisted and all hosed up looking. And as we all know, if something is ugly, it must also be evil. quote:Rajaat had a kender lover, for more information check my profile at literotica.com Post your Rajaat/kender slash-fic, and I will post my Lord Soth/Kitiara slash-fic. quote:Ritual magic in 2e Darksun is rad as gently caress then. If you did something of that caliber in the Forgotten Realms, a couple of the casters would die. Not that becoming an abomination like the SK's isn't bad but it's better than just going up in a pillar of magic flame. Immortal god-king or pile of ashes, you pick.
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Sep 10, 2010 00:07
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My group and I have recently started a Dark Sun campaign and I've been enthralled enough that I would like to DM a campaign in the future as well. Seeing how it's a great backdrop to any post-apocalyptic theme but I'm ignorant of the storyline, how easy is it to work in a Canticle for Leibowitz scenario? Seeing how my group tend to enjoy stories more than the battles, it seems like I can explore familiar themes of hubris, ignorance, and survival ethics with this world. Are there monastic groups that can be analogous to Canticle? I know I can probably fudge all the unimportant details, but I'd like to be sure I'm not breaking any fundamental "rules" of Athas. Maybe even something about the explorers finding clues about The Hollow or so as clues of a greater civilization eons past and if they're willing to sacrifice the dying world as it is, possibly destroying it in the process, to attempt to regain its former glory. I hard a hard-on for post-apocalyptic genre. 
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Sep 10, 2010 03:59
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Fox of Stone posted:My group and I have recently started a Dark Sun campaign and I've been enthralled enough that I would like to DM a campaign in the future as well. Seeing how it's a great backdrop to any post-apocalyptic theme but I'm ignorant of the storyline, how easy is it to work in a Canticle for Leibowitz scenario? Seeing how my group tend to enjoy stories more than the battles, it seems like I can explore familiar themes of hubris, ignorance, and survival ethics with this world. Are there monastic groups that can be analogous to Canticle? I know I can probably fudge all the unimportant details, but I'd like to be sure I'm not breaking any fundamental "rules" of Athas. Maybe even something about the explorers finding clues about The Hollow or so as clues of a greater civilization eons past and if they're willing to sacrifice the dying world as it is, possibly destroying it in the process, to attempt to regain its former glory. Thank you. I have been trying to remember the name of that book for ages; I read it a bunch when I was in high school, and I haven't been able to remember the name to track down a copy.
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Sep 10, 2010 04:13
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Fox of Stone posted:My group and I have recently started a Dark Sun campaign and I've been enthralled enough that I would like to DM a campaign in the future as well. Seeing how it's a great backdrop to any post-apocalyptic theme but I'm ignorant of the storyline, how easy is it to work in a Canticle for Leibowitz scenario? Seeing how my group tend to enjoy stories more than the battles, it seems like I can explore familiar themes of hubris, ignorance, and survival ethics with this world. Are there monastic groups that can be analogous to Canticle? I know I can probably fudge all the unimportant details, but I'd like to be sure I'm not breaking any fundamental "rules" of Athas. Maybe even something about the explorers finding clues about The Hollow or so as clues of a greater civilization eons past and if they're willing to sacrifice the dying world as it is, possibly destroying it in the process, to attempt to regain its former glory. You could run a community of preservers and associated non-mages as a Leibowitz-esque monastery somewhere out in the Silt Sea or the desert, keeping the knowledge of Green Age lore alive. On page 180 of the new Campaign Setting it describes the island of Morghaz, which holds a ruined keep of some ancient, extinct preserver order. Maybe the 'extinct' story was just a way to keep the monastery safe.
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Sep 10, 2010 04:20
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PeterWeller posted:I'm pretty sure the ritual that imprisoned him was also responsible for setting the SKs on their path. I believe it turned Borys straight into a level 30 dragon, and the rest into level 21s. In 2E, the imprisoning ritual was also what gave the SKs the ability to grant divine spells. I'm not sure about the transformation part, but I'm pretty certain that the divine spell conduit stuff was a direct result of Rajaat using the Dark Lens to create his champions at the start of the Cleansing Wars. That was one of the reasons that Tithian was looking for it in the Prism Pentad series, he was hoping to recreate that same power surge for himself during his transition to dragonhood.
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Sep 10, 2010 04:35
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This talk of adapting stories to Dark Sun has made me think of Obernwtyn. Post-apoc fantasy/sci-fi. Preservers would make a good substitute for Misfits, and the authoritative council can easily be replaced with a Sorcerer-King. Any other ideas on how this might work?
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Sep 10, 2010 04:42
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So I've very legally acquired the Dark Sun books of 2e, and the campaign setting book of 4e, and I can safe say that I want to play a game of DS more than any other. I'm also very angry that all my friends are pansies who are attached at the hip to 3.5 and Greyhawk. If there's anyone in the Chicago area who wants an extra player for a DS game, drop me a PM.
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Sep 10, 2010 05:36
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ManMythLegend posted:I'm not sure about the transformation part, but I'm pretty certain that the divine spell conduit stuff was a direct result of Rajaat using the Dark Lens to create his champions at the start of the Cleansing Wars. That was one of the reasons that Tithian was looking for it in the Prism Pentad series, he was hoping to recreate that same power surge for himself during his transition to dragonhood. I'm pretty sure it was a result of them using the Dark Lens to imprison Rajaat. Tithian had a few ideas of what he could do with the Dark Lens-- use it to empower himself, use it to force the SKs to elevate him to their level, or use it to free Rajaat in the hopes that the First Sorcerer would reward him with SK-like power. The last option is the one he ends up pursuing. quote:My group and I have recently started a Dark Sun campaign and I've been enthralled enough that I would like to DM a campaign in the future as well. Seeing how it's a great backdrop to any post-apocalyptic theme but I'm ignorant of the storyline, how easy is it to work in a Canticle for Leibowitz scenario? Seeing how my group tend to enjoy stories more than the battles, it seems like I can explore familiar themes of hubris, ignorance, and survival ethics with this world. Are there monastic groups that can be analogous to Canticle? I know I can probably fudge all the unimportant details, but I'd like to be sure I'm not breaking any fundamental "rules" of Athas. Maybe even something about the explorers finding clues about The Hollow or so as clues of a greater civilization eons past and if they're willing to sacrifice the dying world as it is, possibly destroying it in the process, to attempt to regain its former glory. You should check out the recent DDI article about Dark Sun; it really fits with your last few ideas about destroying the world to save it. On that note, anyone interested in cults of that nature should check out the book, Destroying the World to Save It by Robert Jay Lifton. It's an examination of Aum Shinrikyo, the cult that released sarin gas in the Tokyo subways. Their concept of poa, whereby their victims are actually being saved because they are the victims of enlightened beings is particularly cool and sinister and great villain motivation.
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Sep 10, 2010 06:43
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KillerQueen posted:So I've very legally acquired the Dark Sun books of 2e, and the campaign setting book of 4e, and I can safe say that I want to play a game of DS more than any other. I'm also very angry that all my friends are pansies who are attached at the hip to 3.5 and Greyhawk. If there's anyone in the Chicago area who wants an extra player for a DS game, drop me a PM. What part of Chicago? If you're on/near the northside start coming to Chicagoland Games Monday nights for LFR and there you can meet nerds who may have interest in DS. The store is even talking about doing DS during the week later on in the year.
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Sep 10, 2010 15:12
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rantmo posted:What part of Chicago? If you're on/near the northside start coming to Chicagoland Games Monday nights for LFR and there you can meet nerds who may have interest in DS. The store is even talking about doing DS during the week later on in the year. Hmmm...I've never played LFR before, but if I'm free some tuesday I'll definitely come down and give it a shot, try to meet some nerds, etc. Only problem is I tend to work nights. But yeah, I'll see what I can do. A question for the thread, what Athasian creature would you say is appropriate for an encounter for a group of level 7 adventurers in a greyhawk-esque 3.5 setting? I'm DMing for a group soon, just for a night while the typical DM is out-of-town, and I was thinking of having a wizard in training gently caress up and somehow summon some Athasian critters. Kind of a specific question, but I'd definitely appreciate the help.
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Sep 10, 2010 19:32
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I just started a Dark Sun campaign for my podcast. First adventure is up http://actualplay.roleplayingpublicradio.com/2010/09/systems/dungeons-and-dragons/dark-sun-episode-1-rime-of-the-cursed-artifact/ Entertaining parts include a player stuck on lawful good dealing with an evil halfling PC and the first battle from the WOTC Dark Sun module.
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Sep 10, 2010 22:51
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the fact that one of your players chose lawful good in a dark sun game leads me to believe they do not understand the setting
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Sep 10, 2010 23:16
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KillerQueen posted:Hmmm...I've never played LFR before, but if I'm free some tuesday I'll definitely come down and give it a shot, try to meet some nerds, etc. Only problem is I tend to work nights. LFR is definitely not the best but it's pretty fun group of people and worth coming out for. It's Monday though, not Tuesday, though they have stuff going on every night of the week.
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Sep 10, 2010 23:43
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PeterWeller posted:I'm pretty sure it was a result of them using the Dark Lens to imprison Rajaat. Tithian had a few ideas of what he could do with the Dark Lens-- use it to empower himself, use it to force the SKs to elevate him to their level, or use it to free Rajaat in the hopes that the First Sorcerer would reward him with SK-like power. The last option is the one he ends up pursuing. This has been bugging me so I dug out my copy of Defilers and Preservers to get the scoop. You were right. Here's an excerpt: Defilers and Preservers posted:After fifteen centuries of warfare, the Champions returned to Rajaat at the Pristine Tower. Many of the nonhuman races had been destroyed, and the Champions were on the verge of victory against the rest when they decided to abandon their destructive course. They came to the realization that Rajaat was mad. He intended to give the world to the halflings rather than to them, and that infuriated the Champions. Led by Borys of Ebe, the Champions imprisoned Rajaat beyond the shadow dimension of the Black, in a place of nothingness called the Hollow. They cast his halfling guards into the Black, and secured the gateways into those realms with spells of holding and binding. To make certain that the spells held and the gateways were guarded, Borys underwent the transformations that turned him into the dragon. The Champions, meanwhile, each assumed control of one of the great cities of the Tyr Region. They became the sorcerer-kings. That also settles the "how long were the cleansing?" question from a few pages ago.
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Sep 11, 2010 00:51
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Fifteen centuries of warfare. Good lord. 
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Sep 11, 2010 01:07
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ritorix posted:Fifteen centuries of warfare. 
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Sep 11, 2010 01:37
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I started our Dark Sun campaign last night using the mini adventure from the Campaign Setting book. One of the fighters flat out died in the first encounter. I let him rejoin the party with another character he had previously rolled up, but had decided against playing, after the combat. During the first round of the second encounter this new character's trikal breaks but he manages to beat his foes to death with the shattered bone hilt. During the final encounter the party sorcerer decides to use arcane defiling in a desperate attempt to make his daily power work, nearly knocking out a couple of the other heroes and still failing in the attempt (he still thinks it was worth it.) Additionally, due to my earlier ramblings to them about the terrors of Dark Sun they maintained at least a 3 square distance from the single (ordinary) bush in the first encounter and were taking every opportunity to try to scavenge survival days from the wagon supplies they were sent to retrieve. I think that's a sufficient introduction to Dark Sun for them for now.
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Sep 11, 2010 02:45
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Some discussion of Artificers in Dark Sun led to a realization that all the constructs would look like the scarecrows from Lorwyn/Shadowmoor -- just a pile of random crap held together with twine and resins. Scrapbasket for some reason is my favorite.
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Sep 11, 2010 06:54
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zeal posted:You could run a community of preservers and associated non-mages as a Leibowitz-esque monastery somewhere out in the Silt Sea or the desert, keeping the knowledge of Green Age lore alive. On page 180 of the new Campaign Setting it describes the island of Morghaz, which holds a ruined keep of some ancient, extinct preserver order. Maybe the 'extinct' story was just a way to keep the monastery safe. Sounds great! Now let's see if my players would be feel amicable enough to the idea of all starting out as bookkeepers or bookleggers.  At least the booklegging idea doesn't totally discount combat and if they are all magic-users, it would mirror the book's circumstance where the ignorant crowds to want to burn them at the stake.quote:You should check out the recent DDI article about Dark Sun; it really fits with your last few ideas about destroying the world to save it. Nice. Those are the sorts of moral quandaries I'd like to propose to the players. I'll check out that book too. quote:Thank you. I have been trying to remember the name of that book for ages; I read it a bunch when I was in high school, and I haven't been able to remember the name to track down a copy.
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Sep 11, 2010 13:54
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:No, that's definitely not the case as the fluff is currently written. Yeah, I don't know if they changed it, but in 2nd ed the path to Avangion involved carefully cultivating a larger and larger patch of land into a forest and meditating while the life energy imbued you.
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Sep 11, 2010 23:12
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Towards the end the aspiring avangion had to sleep in a magically treated glass coffin in the middle of the fertile area for a year or something equally ridiculous, if he was disturbed at any time the ritual failed and he had to start on level 30 again.
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Sep 11, 2010 23:51
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The requirements for leveling dragons vs avangions in Dragon Kings was a thing of beauty. The preserver has it easy at early levels while the dragons go insane and are basically unplayable for a few levels. But when you get to the end... Avangions Final (30th level): To cast this spell, the preserver must make an area of lush vegetation (crops, scrubgrass, forests, or any combination) at least five miles in diameter. The preparation time for the spell equals the time it takes the preserver to create these lush lands. At the time of casting, the lush lands must be free of evil creatures. The material components for the spell are a diamond of no less than 10,000 gp value with which to capture the life- giving qualities of sunlight, a stone tomb large enough to hold the preserver’s body, and a perfectly sealed glass case built around the tomb. The casting time is one round. Upon casting, the preserver/avangion, diamond, and stone tomb disappear, bound for planes unknown. The DM then secretly rolls 2d12—this is the number of months before the return of the preserver, in final avangion form, to the glass case. If the glass case is damaged in the meantime, the avangion is lost to oblivion. Only the DM knows how long the final stage takes. The player uses another character from the character tree in the interim.  Upon casting, the presever must make a system shock roll or die from physical stress. Any interruption or mistake during the casting of the spell causes the preserver to lose experience points down to the minimum of the last level—they must be earned again before trying preserver metamorphosis anew. Dragons Final (30th level): The final stage of dragon metamorphosis requires no preparation time and a single material component; the slain body of a good creature defeated in single combat; the victim must be intelligent, have at least 20 Hit Dice, and be capa- ble of casting 9th-level Wizard spells or 7th-level Priest spells. The spell must be cast over the fallen victim within one hour of his defeat; the casting time is merely one turn. ritorix fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Sep 11, 2010 |
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Sep 11, 2010 23:57
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If I remember right, dragons had to make a system shock roll or die at every level, and there were pretty hideous stat requirements for becoming either. Also dragons needed to build ziggurats and sacrifice thousands of HD worth of creatures to gain early levels. Plus they needed to have scrolls of dragon transformation that hadn't been used before and stuff. It was all pretty impossible, but awesome nonetheless. The character tree system was weird. Basically you had a stable of like-level characters in case one of them died or whatever, which makes sense at low levels, but at 30? I liked elemental cleric/psionicists the best for their 20-30 shenanigans. Becoming an elemental forever at level 30 was neat.
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Sep 12, 2010 00:48
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Yeah, the epic stuff from Dragon Kings was rad as gently caress, but I filed it all away under "rules that I will probably never use". One of the cool bits about becoming a dragon was all the obsidian balls you had to swallow. It made for a good scene at the end of the Prism Pentad where Sadira used a spell to shatter all the balls in Borys's gut.
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Sep 12, 2010 00:54
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dragons swallow obsidian balls to help digestion, just like dinosaurs did
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Sep 12, 2010 01:56
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digestion of souls
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Sep 12, 2010 02:12
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The diameter of the orb you had to swallow as also random (a d12 in inches, I believe) so you might be stuck having to swallow a bowling ball-sized obsidian sphere to do your 21st level transformation when you are still a human. Good luck!
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Sep 12, 2010 03:10
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That's when those psychometabolism skills from your levels of psionicist will come in handy.
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Sep 12, 2010 13:32
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Yeah, it's worth mentioning when talking about how crazy epic 2E stuff was that even before you could get to all the obsidian ball swallowing and crystal coffin building, you had to get level 20 in either wizard or psionicist, then dual class and get level 20 in the other class. While you were leveling up your second class, you couldn't use abilities from the first, or you wouldn't gain any experience points.
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Sep 13, 2010 00:23
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