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LLCoolJD posted:I just finished the single player game, and I enjoyed it, but what the gently caress was the point of herding all of those cattle and shooting all of those crows if John, who has almost single-handedly killed half of the region, walks out in front of a firing squad? What a strangely done final section to the game. Killing a character for effect can work (Star Trek II) or it can fall flat (Star Trek Nemesis). It seemed like the latter in this game. What else was he supposed to do? Sure, he could have ran with his family, but they would have just kept hunting him down, and it would have been a danger to not only him, but them as well. By walking out and sacrificing himself, he ensured that his family would be safe. Also, you're not done with the game yet.
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Jan 13, 2011 04:31
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tophet posted:I know there's a thread somewhere for "what to know before playing a game" but I'd rather just ask here. I'm just starting this game, anything special that would help me out or any certain way to play that seems like it's more fun? Do all of the Bonnie missions as soon as possible. Even when you get other missions, do the Bonnie ones first.
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Jan 13, 2011 04:37
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TheJoker138 posted:What else was he supposed to do? Sure, he could have ran with his family, but they would have just kept hunting him down, and it would have been a danger to not only him, but them as well. By walking out and sacrificing himself, he ensured that his family would be safe. I had more of an issue with the fact that they had the government double cross him to begin with. You're right that he probably didn't have much choice other than to sacrifice himself, but I didn't like the plot twist to begin with. TheJoker138 posted:Also, you're not done with the game yet. Thanks for the tip. I was probably going to OCD and go back to complete the challenges anyway. I'm glad that there's something more.
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Jan 13, 2011 04:39
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TheJoker138 posted:Also, you're not done with the game yet. Wait, what? There's more plot after the barn scene with John and the lawmen?
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Jan 13, 2011 04:46
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Vizrt posted:Wait, what? There's more plot after the barn scene with John and the lawmen? Yep. Game's not over 'til you see credits.
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Jan 13, 2011 04:55
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Crappy Jack posted:Yep. Game's not over 'til you see credits. Huh, I started playing as John's son and thought the story was over. There's more plot after you switch characters?! I could have sworn I didn't see anything on the map.
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Jan 13, 2011 05:00
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Vizrt posted:Huh, I started playing as John's son and thought the story was over. There's more plot after you switch characters?! I could have sworn I didn't see anything on the map. I wonder what Jack would make of the bustling metropolis of Blackwater. Hint hint.
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Jan 13, 2011 05:02
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Crappy Jack posted:I wonder what Jack would make of the bustling metropolis of Blackwater. Hint hint. That was the first place I went! drat, wonder how I missed it. Well, time to go load it up and finish this poo poo! Man, can't believe I almost missed that I hadn't finished the game. Thanks.
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Jan 13, 2011 05:12
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Vizrt posted:That was the first place I went! drat, wonder how I missed it. Well, time to go load it up and finish this poo poo! Man, can't believe I almost missed that I hadn't finished the game. Thanks. Tell us how it goes. A lot of people went...well, you'll see. And you'll enjoy.
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Jan 13, 2011 05:47
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LLCoolJD posted:I had more of an issue with the fact that they had the government double cross him to begin with. You're right that he probably didn't have much choice other than to sacrifice himself, but I didn't like the plot twist to begin with. Really? I loved that. It gets foreshadowed by Dutch when he says "When I'm gone, they'll just find another monster. Besides, modern-day westerns can't have happy endings. What was your issue with it?
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Jan 13, 2011 06:00
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:Really? I loved that. It gets foreshadowed by Dutch when he says "When I'm gone, they'll just find another monster. Besides, modern-day westerns can't have happy endings. What was your issue with it? doctor 7 fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jan 13, 2011 |
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Jan 13, 2011 06:03
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Vizrt posted:Huh, I started playing as John's son and thought the story was over. There's more plot after you switch characters?! I could have sworn I didn't see anything on the map.
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Jan 13, 2011 06:18
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:Really? I loved that. It gets foreshadowed by Dutch when he says "When I'm gone, they'll just find another monster. Besides, modern-day westerns can't have happy endings. What was your issue with it? I wasn't opposed to it in principle; but, if they wanted to go that route, why not just have Marston killed right after he gets them Dutch? At least that way the farm missions that followed could have used Jack Marston and have shown him come of age. Having John do those ranch missions after leading a bloody rebellion in Mexico and storming fort after fort was anticlimactic, especially since he already did rancher missions to begin the game. Having Jack do them could have provided a more fleshed-out epilogue where he builds up the farm and produces a life that his father wanted for him.
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Jan 13, 2011 06:26
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LLCoolJD posted:I wasn't opposed to it in principle; but, if they wanted to go that route, why not just have Marston killed right after he gets them Dutch? At least that way the farm missions that followed could have used Jack Marston and have shown him come of age. Having John do those ranch missions after leading a bloody rebellion in Mexico and storming fort after fort was anticlimactic, especially since he already did rancher missions to begin the game. Having Jack do them could have provided a more fleshed-out epilogue where he builds up the farm and produces a life that his father wanted for him. The point of the game is that despite everything you struggle to do as John to make a better life for his family, Jack ends up falling into the exact same cycle of violence that he did. It's an artistic statement, and you're not supposed to be satisfied with it. Sometimes the good guys don't get to ride off into the sunset.
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Jan 13, 2011 06:34
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Crappy Jack posted:The point of the game is that despite everything you struggle to do as John to make a better life for his family, Jack ends up falling into the exact same cycle of violence that he did. It's an artistic statement, and you're not supposed to be satisfied with it. Sometimes the good guys don't get to ride off into the sunset. This. And you do see Jack kind of coming of age in those. You see the type of man John is teaching him to be, before it all comes crumbling down. But it's taken away, and instead of becoming the writer he wanted to be, Jack is in the same situation that young John was. An outlaw with no family, and no future.
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Jan 13, 2011 06:41
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Goddammit, the temptation to read all these spoilers is killing me. I just met Senor Reyes, I doubt I'm anywhere near the end.
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Jan 13, 2011 06:42
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Cheezymadman posted:Goddammit, the temptation to read all these spoilers is killing me. I just met Senor Reyes, I doubt I'm anywhere near the end. You most definitely do not want to read these spoilers. Fight the urge, man!
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Jan 13, 2011 06:46
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Cheezymadman posted:Goddammit, the temptation to read all these spoilers is killing me. I just met Senor Reyes, I doubt I'm anywhere near the end. You've got a long road left ahead of you, pardner. Also, don't read the spoilers, trust me. I had one element of it ruined for me, and it definitely took away from the ending for me.
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Jan 13, 2011 06:47
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Okay, just finished that one final mission. That was much better than how I thought it had ended prior. Now I just need to get around to doing the rest of the side missions eventually. Echoing don't read those spoilers. I went in blind and probably wouldn't have enjoyed it as much if I had been spoiled on the ending.
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Jan 13, 2011 06:51
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Crappy Jack posted:The point of the game is that despite everything you struggle to do as John to make a better life for his family, Jack ends up falling into the exact same cycle of violence that he did. It's an artistic statement, and you're not supposed to be satisfied with it. Sometimes the good guys don't get to ride off into the sunset. Well, the DLC has John riding off into the hellish sunset atop the Death horse. Not the best ending, but it's a lot better than watching his son go his route as America moves beyond those times.
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Jan 13, 2011 07:40
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Vizrt posted:Okay, just finished that one final mission. That was much better than how I thought it had ended prior. Now I just need to get around to doing the rest of the side missions eventually. The splash screen at the end was so goddamn satisfying in this game. I probably was almost on the edge of my seat with the ending of this game, it was so good. LLCoolJD posted:I wasn't opposed to it in principle; but, if they wanted to go that route, why not just have Marston killed right after he gets them Dutch? At least that way the farm missions that followed could have used Jack Marston and have shown him come of age. Having John do those ranch missions after leading a bloody rebellion in Mexico and storming fort after fort was anticlimactic, especially since he already did rancher missions to begin the game. Having Jack do them could have provided a more fleshed-out epilogue where he builds up the farm and produces a life that his father wanted for him. Similar to what Crappy Jack was saying, part of the point was that it was anticlimactic. John never really wanted a violent life, and his reward for his struggle was a quiet, peaceful, farmer's life. It's meant to lull you into a false sense of security which slowly gets eroded by that gnawing foreboding feeling as the music in the missions gets more and more ominous, and the storm clouds keep getting thicker and thicker. There's a reason the sky is totally clear as you ride back from Cochinay to your house, but it's raining and stormy when you face the Army and Ross. If you just hang around in the West Elizabeth area in between all that, it won't actually rain. The weather is paced to the missions on purpose, it's part of the presentation. Rockstar put a lot of effort into the artistic presentation of the game, and unlike GTA4, it really paid off and worked well, partly because the game's setting and gameplay were just better, but also because it's just a much more cinematic, well voice acted, and well-written game. It's very much paced in the format of the old operatic Western, not the later, more heroic Cowboy ones... one of the main messages being told is that there was nothing glorious or heroic about the old west, and in some ways it's a good thing it died off. It was very romantic, in the classical sense, but definitely not admirable or heroic... John is not a role model. No one in the game is. Literally no one. EDIT: Well, except maybe Bonnie and/or Marshall Johnson. It's not a coincidence that they're also the first two characters you meet, and their role quickly disappears and the game moves on and mostly forgets about them. There's no place for respectable people in this story. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Jan 13, 2011 |
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Jan 13, 2011 07:41
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Vizrt posted:Echoing don't read those spoilers. I went in blind and probably wouldn't have enjoyed it as much if I had been spoiled on the ending. Absolutely. I resisted reading anything about the game till I finally got it last month and man was it worth the patience. I was so lucky to be playing with good headphones on in the middle of the night after a long session when the magical moment of arriving in Mexico rolled along and 'Far Away' started playing as I followed the river trail in a slow trot. Game time was around 3am as well; it was just perfect. As for the later ranch work; I thought it was a great anticlimax after all the intense shooting of the previous missions, but only in the light of the (almost) ending. On a second run, when you know what's going to happen, delivering wheat on a wobbly wagon with Abigail incessantly running her mouth made me reach for the dynamite several times. But what a game. I really really hope RS do a few more in the same setting. Perhaps around the time of the US civil war - "press LS for rebel yell".
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Jan 13, 2011 07:53
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Underflow posted:Absolutely. I resisted reading anything about the game till I finally got it last month and man was it worth the patience. I think the Red Dead banner could carry at the very least one more game. I'd honestly like to see something to bridge the gap between Red Dead Redemption and this. Not necessarily one that follows characters from either game, but maybe something where the whoever the main character in it runs into an older Red Harlow and a younger John Marston at some point in his story. I was really hoping to see a cameo from Red in this one, but other than the multiplayer skin, there was hardly even a mention of him.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:05
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I finally beat the real final mission and I'm much happier with the way it ended. It felt like actual closure rather than Rockstar being lazy by having the player play as Jack just to let them 100% the game if they want. I just wish my Gold subscription didn't end tonight, because I really want to play online now. 
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Jan 13, 2011 08:07
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Underflow posted:I was so lucky to be playing with good headphones on in the middle of the night after a long session when the magical moment of arriving in Mexico rolled along and 'Far Away' started playing as I followed the river trail in a slow trot. Game time was around 3am as well; it was just perfect. I remembered reading a question concerning this, then promptly forgot about it. I feel robbed now, that never happened in my playthrough. I doubt I would have forgotten about it, but I never heard that play.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:11
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Fuzz posted:Similar to what Crappy Jack was saying, part of the point was that it was anticlimactic. John never really wanted a violent life, and his reward for his struggle was a quiet, peaceful, farmer's life. It's meant to lull you into a false sense of security which slowly gets eroded by that gnawing foreboding feeling as the music in the missions gets more and more ominous, and the storm clouds keep getting thicker and thicker. There's a reason the sky is totally clear as you ride back from Cochinay to your house, but it's raining and stormy when you face the Army and Ross. If you just hang around in the West Elizabeth area in between all that, it won't actually rain. The weather is paced to the missions on purpose, it's part of the presentation.  I heroically sacrificed myself on a bright sunny day.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:36
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Vizrt posted:I remembered reading a question concerning this, then promptly forgot about it. I feel robbed now, that never happened in my playthrough. I doubt I would have forgotten about it, but I never heard that play. You probably got off the horse to loot the bodies or something like that. I did that on my second run and the music faded out immediately. pseudorandom name posted:
Yes, same here. And I rode back from Cochinay in the foulest weather possible.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:49
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Replaying the mission gives you sunny weather, too. I know they can manipulate the weather (and what song is playing on the radio, in GTA4), but they didn't for that mission.
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Jan 13, 2011 08:58
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pseudorandom name posted:(and what song is playing on the radio, in GTA4) I think these were coincidence.
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Jan 13, 2011 09:11
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So I've played the poo poo out of this on PS3... is there still no word on a PC version? it's absolutely criminal that it's not out on PC, with how freaking beautiful it could look
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Jan 13, 2011 09:29
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teacup posted:So I've played the poo poo out of this on PS3... is there still no word on a PC version? it's absolutely criminal that it's not out on PC, with how freaking beautiful it could look If the unoptimized buggy piece of garbage known as "GTA4 on PC" is any indication, there's no chance of RDR-PC.
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Jan 13, 2011 09:35
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Fuzz posted:Similar to what Crappy Jack was saying, part of the point was that it was anticlimactic. John never really wanted a violent life, and his reward for his struggle was a quiet, peaceful, farmer's life. It's meant to lull you into a false sense of security which slowly gets eroded by that gnawing foreboding feeling as the music in the missions gets more and more ominous, and the storm clouds keep getting thicker and thicker. There's a reason the sky is totally clear as you ride back from Cochinay to your house, but it's raining and stormy when you face the Army and Ross. If you just hang around in the West Elizabeth area in between all that, it won't actually rain. The weather is paced to the missions on purpose, it's part of the presentation. Rockstar put a lot of effort into the artistic presentation of the game, and unlike GTA4, it really paid off and worked well, partly because the game's setting and gameplay were just better, but also because it's just a much more cinematic, well voice acted, and well-written game. It's very much paced in the format of the old operatic Western, not the later, more heroic Cowboy ones... one of the main messages being told is that there was nothing glorious or heroic about the old west, and in some ways it's a good thing it died off. It was very romantic, in the classical sense, but definitely not admirable or heroic... John is not a role model. No one in the game is. Literally no one. Probably another in game reason is John is a badass motherfucker and the government knew that. If they tried taking him out while still riding high on his slaughter of his former friends, John could have taken the government guys out, no doubt. John was able to take out gangs even the local government couldn't handle by themselves. So, they lulled him into a false sense of security, thinking it was all over, and then they ambush him and take him out. I'd probably do the same thing.
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Jan 13, 2011 09:43
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doctor 7 posted:They should've just killed John Marston after he killed Dutch and immediately kill his family. Releasing him and then coming back later made no sense whatsoever. Gave me the sense Ross had to go through red-tape in order to coordinate things with the Army and finally go after John. When you're riding up to Cochinay with the military they talk about how much they loving hate Ross and don't have any other choice but to do what they're told. fennesz fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jan 13, 2011 |
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Jan 13, 2011 09:44
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fennesz posted:Gave me the sense Ross had to go through red-tape in order to coordinate things with the Army and finally go after John. When you're riding up to Cochinay with the military they talk about how much they loving hate Ross and don't have any other choice but to do what they're told. Not only that. I think that Ross knew all along that his bosses would make him go after John and he probably gave him his month or so with his family as a reward for doing his dirty work. Killing John was always part of Nate John's plan to get elected by bringing all of Dutch's gang to justice.
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Jan 13, 2011 09:52
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Knuc If U Buck posted:Not only that. I think that Ross knew all along that his bosses would make him go after John and he probably gave him his month or so with his family as a reward for doing his dirty work. Killing John was always part of Nate John's plan to get elected by bringing all of Dutch's gang to justice. Yeah I was adding to that as you quoted my post, it's a bad habit. I love the way the missions function in West Elizabeth and how even the train ride during the introduction introduces arguably one of the most important characters. Nate Johns; a character you never meet has political aspirations and decides he wants to clean up the territory so he can fall back on something during his campaign. Another man, Ross, is eager to work his way up the ladder and is willing to do whatever necessary to move up. Everyone beneath them in the chain of command just want to feed their families, the end result is dozens of people die, everything goes to poo poo and the cycle continues regardless with Jack Marston. I love that the game could just be taken as a simple revenge driven story but it's way, way deeper than that if you re-play it and think about it. (heh did it again) fennesz fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Jan 13, 2011 |
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Jan 13, 2011 09:55
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Knuc If U Buck posted:I think these were coincidence. They're not, at least not for Lost & Damned where all the times I've replayed it it's had the same music queues. You can of course gently caress it up just by changing the station, but they definitely start you with a certain station and a certain song at the beginning of some missions.
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Jan 13, 2011 10:28
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I was playing single player last night, working on 100% completion. I was working on Master Hunter 6, and was looking for raccoons by Hanging Rock. As I was farting around, I saw a small animal with antlers. I nearly poo poo myself with excitement: the legendary jackelope! Skunks are harder to find than the goddamned jackelope.
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Jan 13, 2011 16:28
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TheJoker138 posted:I think the Red Dead banner could carry at the very least one more game. I'd honestly like to see something to bridge the gap between Red Dead Redemption and this. Not necessarily one that follows characters from either game, but maybe something where the whoever the main character in it runs into an older Red Harlow and a younger John Marston at some point in his story. I was really hoping to see a cameo from Red in this one, but other than the multiplayer skin, there was hardly even a mention of him. There is a campsite you can sit down at where two guys will be talking about Red Harlow and the events of Red Dead Revolver, but yeah I don't think there's anything more than that. Apparently Red and John Marston wear the same hat though.
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Jan 13, 2011 17:16
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Pozzo posted:Man I thought this game was great in single player but boy is multiplayer loving hilarious I got invited to a posse of about ten people. The leader was this really bossy ten year old who kept making us jump in and out of a stagecoach and then shooting us in the head. He kept saying he was trying to replicate some glitch. I went along with it for a bit out of curiosity, but he kept getting angry and saying dumb poo poo about how we were doing it wrong and weren't listening, so I said, gently caress it and killed the horses with throwing knives. When they saw that the horses had died (therefore ruining the glitch I guess), the posse leader and a few others were literally screaming. No one saw me do it so I yelled into my mic, "It was (other player), I saw him do it!" They kicked the guy and then spent the next fifteen minutes killing him and each other. All the while the leader is getting pissy and trying to get the others to cooperate with his dumb little scheme and find another stagecoach, which are moderately rare I guess. All the while I was doing gang hideouts. As I was on route to one, lo and behold I came across a stagecoach. I hijacked it and drove it out near Fort Mercer. I called the posse leader and told him that I found one near the entry gates. Then, I knifed the horses and took off. A minute later: "This is bullshit, the horses are dead!" I told him the NPC's must have got them. I went to the area I was in before and found another stagecoach. I told the posse leader again. He demanded that I drive it to him halfway across the map. I refused and told him I'd put it somewhere safe, just ride to my dot. I drove the thing deep into the wilderness, then got out and ran to the top of a big hill in the distance. He arrived at my location and asked where it was. "Down in that gully there, all yours man." He ran down to get it and as soon as reached it I sniped the horses in their noggins with my Carcano rifle.
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Jan 13, 2011 18:03
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Dr Geek posted:There is a campsite you can sit down at where two guys will be talking about Red Harlow and the events of Red Dead Revolver, but yeah I don't think there's anything more than that. Apparently Red and John Marston wear the same hat though. Yeah, that's the "hardly a mention of him" I was talking about. Also, the hats are similar but not the same. Red's didn't have the band around it that Johns has. They do have nearly identical facial scars though.
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Jan 13, 2011 18:11
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