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Xandu posted:It's been a front page story in the NYT every day for over a week. Top US reporters (Anderson Cooper, Katie Couric, Nick Kristof, etc) have all been reporting on it. I think this point is truest to the American coverage of the protests. NPR, for example, discusses it on the hour every hour. It is some (hell, you could argue most) peoples' prerogatives to learn as much or as little as they would like about the world. I guess you can say it's an American thing if you would like but I do not know if that would be necessarily true for all 310 million people that live here.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 02:18 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 17:22 |
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Blurry Gray Thing posted:"Wait, Muslims? There aren't any Muslims in Egypt." I'd say better. Unless the person who said it is actually a racist or something, the statement itself is genuine ignorance rather than what we usually mean when we say "ignorant" which is "dumb and racist". I actually think someone honestly believing the Egyptian gods are still widely worshipped in Egypt today is so dumb it's sort of cute.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 02:19 |
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I've heard a pretty wide spectrum of things about the Middle East crisis from people I know IRL, from total ignorance to FOX News talking points to an active, intelligent understanding of the crisis. The thing is, the information is there for anyone that wants to pursue it, it's a question of desire to be informed more than ability. A lot of people in the first group just don't want to know (and most of the people in the second only want to know insofar as it allows them a better grasp of what talking points to give).
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 02:27 |
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Narmi posted:Regarding Bahrain, is the government still trying to place the blame on "violent protesters" for the more serious injuries and deaths? Nobody seems to be buying it. I'm not surprised at all. The royal family will want the country to mourn the loss of their family members for days, but hey killing innocent women and children of other, "lesser" families is a-okay. Ugh, they're all the same. In a few days, the other GCC leaders will be holding a council in Bahrain to show their support for the almighty, self-appointed "God" of Bahrain. Even worse is that the local newspapers in neighboring countries, such as the UAE, is not even reporting on the bullshit violence used by the Bahrain police/military on peaceful protesters. gently caress these people. They are Muslim only in name, and I will see them in hell.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 02:37 |
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Hmmm what an interesting tweet about Iranquote:@iranproxy There's also reports from the same source that phishing emails have been going out to Green Party members all day, and not to open any emails that aren't from trusted sources. Edit: A rock fight in Bahrain; now where have we seen rock fights during protests before... World News Australia says that the Saudis will intervene before allowing a regime change in Bahrain: quote:audi intervention possible http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1486602/Saudis-'won't-let-Bahrain-fall'?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter This could get mighty ugly. Apology fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 02:50 |
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The thing that gets me is how similarly all these revolution stories are playing out. It's like the various dictators never spent their period in power figuring out a less stupid way of attempting to retain control in the face of a discontented populace.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:03 |
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Most of my extended family seem a bit unwilling to talk about it - since it involves Muslims doing something they agree with (they're torn between your standard racism and the very extreme anti-authoritarian sentiment your average older Russian immigrant has in spades). My brother-in-law was something of an exception. Speaking of Russia, though, I really don't think the protests will spread that far north. There's a terrorist-scare happening there right now - and, poo poo, when it comes to the middle-east, Muslims, or brown people in general, your average Russian doesn't sound very different from your average Fox viewer.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:03 |
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It's not down, at least not for me. Leader.ir that is. And yeah, I don't see the Saudis letting Bahrain go anywhere; they'd be afraid of Iran moving revolutionary assistance through Bahrain into the Eastern Province. This could get interesting. QuentinCompson fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:04 |
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Pureauthor posted:The thing that gets me is how similarly all these revolution stories are playing out. It's like the various dictators never spent their period in power figuring out a less stupid way of attempting to retain control in the face of a discontented populace. Dictators aren't very smart. They think that once they have power it will last forever and they can do whatever they want.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:07 |
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Apology posted:This could get mighty ugly. How could that not end well for them? "People, I'm sure some of you have heard of a instability happening with our neighbors as people looking for freedom and democratic reform face off against their authoritative dictator. But don't worry, I, your authoritative dictator, have sent your sons and brothers to destroy those peaceful protesters."
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:12 |
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Pureauthor posted:The thing that gets me is how similarly all these revolution stories are playing out. It's like the various dictators never spent their period in power figuring out a less stupid way of attempting to retain control in the face of a discontented populace. I don't want to sound like one of those technophile assholes - but it really is because of the spread of technology. The dictators are using old methods that just don't work with all these new forms communication around. All of a sudden, people are talking to each-other. They find out that a lot of people feel the same way they do. They find out about other places where people in a similar situation did something about it. They can plan a protest - and be pretty drat sure that, when they show up, there will be far too many people there to simply arrest. A dictator counts on ignorance. People let themselves be oppressed only when they think there's nothing they can do about it.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:16 |
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tetsul posted:How could that not end well for them? "People, I'm sure some of you have heard of a instability happening with our neighbors as people looking for freedom and democratic reform face off against their authoritative dictator. But don't worry, I, your authoritative dictator, have sent your sons and brothers to destroy those peaceful protesters." The way it ends "well" is by cowing them through violence. "Well" is in quotation marks for obvious reasons: it's a horrendous outcome for everyone else and only a short-term "win" for the regime. The thing is, this isn't sending "the people's" sons and daughters against them. By most accounts, this is a revolt dominated by Bahrain's 70% Shia majority and the military is mostly composed by Bahrain's 30% Sunni minority protecting the interests of Bahrain's Sunni ruling elite. The military knows that their social group would really lose out in a successful revolution and the government can play up the whole "sectarian strife" thing to keep them motivated: "These aren't your brothers and sisters you're fighting, they're schismatic heretics" etc. (Of course, there's only so much you can play that card against the overwhelming supermajority of your country) EDIT: Screwed up the numbers. Bahrain is apparently close to 15% non-Muslim, and something like 25% Sunni and 60% Shia. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:17 |
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Patter Song posted:The way it ends "well" is by cowing them through violence. "Well" is in quotation marks for obvious reasons: it's a horrendous outcome for everyone else and only a short-term "win" for the regime. What I ment was Saudi Arabia, whose people can see just as well as anyone what's happening in Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, etc, have their leaders wander off to another country and out and out show they are as much the protest-crushing dictatorial assholes that people in other countries are trying to overthrow.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:25 |
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Blurry Gray Thing posted:I don't want to sound like one of those technophile assholes - but it really is because of the spread of technology. The dictators are using old methods that just don't work with all these new forms communication around. All of a sudden, people are talking to each-other. They find out that a lot of people feel the same way they do. They find out about other places where people in a similar situation did something about it. They can plan a protest - and be pretty drat sure that, when they show up, there will be far too many people there to simply arrest. It's more then just organizing quickly. If everyone has technology capable of recording videos and pictures of protests then it's impossible for the government to turn around and go "HEY GUYS THEY WERE JUST SOME VIOLENT TERRORISTS GO BACK TO YOUR BUSINESS!" That is the true power of the technological changes. You can't fool people and force them with violence as easily as before now. These regimes are treating these protests like back in the old days and all it's leading to is it blowing up in their face. When everyone is able to send a quick tweet out saying whats going on and giving each other support it's a lot harder to break a group like that.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:45 |
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Preliminary reports that the people in Iraq are rising too:quote:@husambajis So much for the $774,838,900,000 and counting money that the US spent establishing a puppet democracy there, eh? YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK!!!
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 03:50 |
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Apology posted:Preliminary reports that the people in Iraq are rising too: Nothing would please me more than the US getting it's rear end and it's army of installed dictators/puppet regimes handed to it by a bunch of angry youths on Facebook and Twitter.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 04:06 |
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Apology posted:Preliminary reports that the people in Iraq are rising too: Um, did you just quote costofwar.com? Because they said the wars cost over 1 quadrillion dollars since 2001. There's no possible way that could be correct. So could someone qualify or clarify this figure? EDIT: My bad, I thought that was 775 trillion, not 775 billion. Lustful Man Hugs fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 04:20 |
I just wanted to say thanks for making this thread op. I was actually thinking about how we needed one, but I wouldn't be able to put together a good first post. Man, I'm afraid things are really gonna get bad in some of these places, especially if there are reports of people getting blasted already. It's gonna loving suck balls if any of these movements fail, because then it's almost as if that sacrifice was for nothing.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 04:55 |
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ChaosSamusX posted:Um, did you just quote costofwar.com? Because they said the wars cost over 1 quadrillion dollars since 2001. There's no possible way that could be correct. So could someone qualify or clarify this figure? NY Times had the cost of Iraq at $1.2 trillion in 2007 and at $3 trillion as of September 2009. I knew it was huge, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that number. There's just so many more things that could be done with that money that are a hundred times better than what it's being used for right now.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 04:59 |
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Is the Al Jazeera feed not working for anyone else right now? Is it just me?
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:01 |
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ChaosSamusX posted:Um, did you just quote costofwar.com? Because they said the wars cost over 1 quadrillion dollars since 2001. There's no possible way that could be correct. So could someone qualify or clarify this figure? Yeah, and it's just the figure for the cost of the Iraq war, not the combined cost of all US wars, so it's lower. I did get the number from costofwar.com. Here's a video on NYTimes showing the police crackdown on Pearl Square in Bahrain. Bonus really cool hookahs, but sorry about the ads. http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/02/17/world/1248069644264/a-forceful-crackdown-on-protesters.html?ref=middleeast Here's another video showing Libyan dead in the morgue, it's graphic, so be warned. It's still not as gross as the guy with his head blown apart, but still, bloody dead bodies: http://www.libyafeb17.com/?p=511 Edit: Al Jazeera feed is down for me as well.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:06 |
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Aqua Bear posted:Is the Al Jazeera feed not working for anyone else right now? Is it just me? It's not working for me either. And I couldn't get the feed on their YouTube channel. It works here: http://www.livestation.com/channels/3-al-jazeera-english-english Mickey Mental fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:19 |
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Dieting Hippo posted:Hey, did you hear about the protests in the capital of Bahrain? Please tell me someone else got this? Do doooo do-doo-do.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:32 |
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I think Bahrain is getting ugly enough for the US to start pulling strings publicly with little or no blowback. I don't know what our ties to them are, and thus what we could/would do, but I hope the administration does something to stop this from turning into a total bloodbath.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:35 |
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I Want this as the Tear Flag of yemen: In Arab Internet news: a bahraini doctor told me that the hospital he lived in yesterday was like a jungle, hundreds of people shouting and screaming they even were inside the Operating Rooms taking pictures with their mobiles while people were getting treated. The general consensus is that no way the revolution in bahrain will be successful for two reasons: -- The people Revolting have not shown themselves to representative of both sects, leading people to think that this is purely a Sectarian Issue. -- Saudi Arabia is beyond loving livid about it, according to a professor, there is one iron and blood rule that ties the GCC (gulf cooperation council) together, despite all the media and economic dick waving between they must NEVER EVER evolve politically ahead of each other and that the shia must NEVER EVER take control, when the emir of qatar was asked why he doesnt make his country a democracy, he just flat out said: I cant, no gulf country is allowed to politically develop ahead of each other. Some people are whispering that if it really came down to it Saudi (or even America to protect the 5th fleet) would militarily rescue the Bahraini leadership, it's a small country so it's definitely within the Saudi armed forces means. Oh and a famous egyptian journalist on al arabiya said on air and live that his next show will be the effects the egypitan revolution will have on saudi arabia, as a direct challenge to show whether al arabiya is an independent channel or not. Al arabiya is owned by Saudi. He was fired that evening.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:45 |
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Intel5 posted:I think Bahrain is getting ugly enough for the US to start pulling strings publicly with little or no blowback. I don't know what our ties to them are, and thus what we could/would do, but I hope the administration does something to stop this from turning into a total bloodbath. The US has a huge naval base in Bahrain, so it's in America's best interest that things stay the same rather than the protests being successful. Same reason why the US didn't pitch in to help the Egyptian protesters, really.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:48 |
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I came across this nice map locating where most of the major events are throughout the region. It probably hasn't gotten everything but I haven't come across a better one yet. google map from SBS news EDIT: Unless someone has seen a better one, then something like this might be useful in the OP.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:55 |
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I must say, coming from the Middle East and having many close friends in Bahrain im still shocked at the energy of the protests in Bahrain. I mean ,barring the UAE, it was probably one of the most well off nations in the region; a combination of a strong middle class, solid economy,relatively low crime rates meant that it was probably one of the last countries I ever expected be filled with protestors. I really do hope that things reach a peaceful accord sometime soon, I mean, as great as it would be if GCC Nations got democracy, Al-Saqr has a pretty valid point; this isn't Egypt 2.0 . Bahrain has the full might of Saudi Arabia behind its ruling class, thats a rather terrifying fact that protestors are ,unfortunately, likely to notice in the coming days.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:56 |
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quadratic posted:Gorbachev thinks it may happen. http://on.wsj.com/gIKwhY I'm sure as hell not an expert, but Arab countries in the middle east have a long shared history, religious and lingual homogeneity, similarities involving societal pressures fueling the revolution, even strains of pan-Arabism reinforcing a sense of "if it could happen there, it should happen here." Russia seems to be pretty disconnected from all that.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 05:59 |
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Shageletic posted:I'm sure as hell not an expert, but Arab countries in the middle east have a long shared history, religious and lingual homogeneity, similarities involving societal pressures fueling the revolution, even strains of pan-Arabism reinforcing a sense of "if it could happen there, it should happen here." Russia seems to be pretty disconnected from all that.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 06:27 |
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Is the goal with these protests specifically democracy or do they just want change in general? I have a strange mix of happiness that people are protesting against their corrupt governments and sadness that people are dying. Some of these pictures are very disturbing.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 07:02 |
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Al-Saqr posted:Thank you (I assume it's you) for making this..., peeking at the EXIF data it says it's 1024x768, ?!? If only I had a tablet I'd be able to contribute in so many amazing threads. If I were given the details on the pre-requisites of an image in order to be an acceptable emoticon, I would (try to) do this. Paradox Personified fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 07:16 |
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Toadofsky posted:Is the goal with these protests specifically democracy or do they just want change in general? They want both, but it's a bit more complex than that. Many protesters have specific demands that would have to be carried out for there to be a true democracy and change, and they're protesting to have all of these met. From what I've seen, their primary goal is to remove the dictator/regime that is oppressing them. Following that, they have a list of demands, including fair representation in the government, free and fair elections, human rights, better working conditions, economic reforms, etc. So while they may only chant "down with X," that's more of a rallying cry/the thing at the top of their list. For example, in Egypt they wanted Mubarak to step down and the government dissolved since they were all viewed as corrupt, though Mubarak was the one they focused on. However, they also wanted constitutional reforms since Mubarak had more or less bastardized the constitution to eliminate opposition and so he could stay in power. They also wanted the emergency law, which had been in place since Sadat was assassinated, lifted, as it gave the police pretty much unlimited powers (I believe another country, possibly Algeria, has a similar emergency law in place that the government has promised to lift following mass protests). Even after Mubarak left, some lots of people stayed in Tahrir square to make sure the military didn't pull a fast one on them. Also a lot of workers were/are on strike, demanding better working conditions and pay. Narmi fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 07:23 |
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The Guardian has a Live Blog up for today:quote:Good morning. Governments around the Middle East are bracing themselves for protests and violence today as the unrest in the region continues to spread. AJE also has a Live Blog
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 09:58 |
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Reveilled posted:I can't help but wonder if Egypt might start actively formenting revolution in other nations once the country is back on its feet. If/when a new civilian reigime led by the opposition groups comes to power, it's going to be pretty unpopular amongst the kings and dictators of the rest of the Arab-Iranian world, especially if the unrest continues for a prolonged period. If that happens, active support for the protestors in other nations would be in Egypt's national interest. That would be ignoring the fact that Egypt never was popular with the other Arab nations after Sadat made peace with Israel and became America's allies. Libya, Syria and Palestinians don't give a gently caress if Hosni is in power, Sadat and Mubarak were traitors to them. They only care if Egypt is willing to rattle sabers with Israel once more. It's not very likely that any sane Egyptian government would actively try to stir trouble in the area, as it would likely backfire. It's difficult to spread peaceful revolution into police states like Syria, compared to how easy it is to fund terrorist cells in unstable democracies like Iraq.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 10:19 |
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Shanakin posted:I came across this nice map locating where most of the major events are throughout the region. It probably hasn't gotten everything but I haven't come across a better one yet. I feel oddly compelled to play Civilisation after looking at that map. Thank gently caress Mubarak is gone. I was in Egypt at the last election 5 years ago and asking people about it. They were all openly hostile to Mubarak and said their votes meant nothing as he'd win anyway. Interesting the talk about the Muslim Brotherhood. For the people I got onto the subject of the outlawed party with, they were disliked as radical Islamists. Now it seems the media are eating up the Brotherhoods statements they're not nutjobs at all. They're all about the people and peace amongst all religions apparently. What a load of bullshit. I doubt anyone in Egypt is fooled by it. I have high hopes that they'll vote, democratically, a good civilian PM in.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 11:12 |
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The BBC also has a Live Blog today. Currently there's a massive gathering in Tahrir Square in Egypt, celebrating their victory. Things are also getting pretty heated in Libya: quote:Anti-Gaddafi demonstrators have taken over several cities in eastern Libya but have suffered scores of deaths, according to exiled opposition groups in London. This is also a very good video: quote:Al-Jazeera's live blog features video footage on YouTube showing protesters in the city of Tubruq tearing down a "green book" monument on Thursday. The green book was written by Muammar Gaddafi, outlining his political philosophy. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 12:23 |
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Summary of today's events so far from the Guardianquote:• Bahrain: After the funerals of protesters killed in recent violence, demonstrators were expected to head back to Manama's Pearl roundabout. Tens of thousands turned out for the funeral of Mahmood abu Taki see 10.30am). The protesters' demands seem to be getting more radical, with calls for the monarchy to be removed (see 11.33am).
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 14:08 |
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Update from me: Bahrain In the last hour tear gas has been fired at marchers in the capital, and there's reports of gunfire and injured protesters at Pearl Square. "Another protest is right now being held outside the Salmaniya hospital by the doctors, expressing shock and demanding answers for attack on both protesters and medics and answers why doctors and ambulances were prevented from reaching wounded." There's also the suggestion that the pro-government and pro-king counter-protesters are by mostly foreigners. Libya Tripoli seems quiet, but "Benghazi, Libya's second city, appears to be the scene of a trial of strength between protesters and Gaddafi loyalists. Lawyers and other pro-democracy supporters have rallied outside the main courthouse. One of the president's sons, Saddi, is said to be trapped in the city." [edit]The police in Bahrain are now firing tear gas inside the hospital. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Feb 18, 2011 |
# ? Feb 18, 2011 15:54 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 17:22 |
All these people still out there despite having some of the most threatening dictators in the world willing to attack them... this whole series of events is something truly once in a lifetime.
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# ? Feb 18, 2011 16:04 |