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Frozen Horse posted:I'm going to reverse my earlier optimism about Quaddafi's chances for pulling off a soft landing. I'm also going to predict that the army is going to react poorly to foreign mercenaries attacking their countrymen. Maybe I'm a soft westerner, but $30,000 wouldn't be enough for it to be worth it to get shot by the Libyan army. As an American, it wouldn't cover the first two hours of my medical care.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 05:15 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 15:16 |
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A peaceful video from Libya, finally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqhCQri7CCw This is the Green Book building on fire in Benghazi. The Green Book is Ghaddafi's book on political philosophy.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 05:20 |
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Slantedfloors posted:$30,000 will start seeming like a lot less once the mercenaries start getting found sans heads. I really can't conceive of how somebody can willingly be paid to go and kill people. Then again, I could never join the army for those reasons too- but at least in the army you have actual good equipment and the idea of patriotism to brush away the fact you're killing people. And can you imagine capturing one of these fuckers, especially without any real weapons? I can't, that's amazing. These loving goons make me sick. e: not you guys though Spiderfist Island fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Feb 20, 2011 |
# ? Feb 20, 2011 05:22 |
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Spiderfist Island posted:I really can't conceive of how somebody can willingly be paid to go and kill people. Then again, I could never join the army for those reasons too- but at least in the army you have actual good equipment and the idea of patriotism to brush away the fact you're killing people. Terrible economic prospects that make any career path other than "thug for hire" a dead end, plus misanthropy born from growing up in a region where human lives are considered valueless. That, and they're told the people they are going after will be unarmed, so they figure its easy money. In truth it'd probably be easier to capture this sort of merc than a career soldier, since at least the soldier could be said to be fighting for a cause. If they realize that their options are surrender or be killed, thoughts of their paycheck probably aren't going to sway their decision to give up. Not to take anything away from the badassery displayed by poorly armed civilians defeating and capturing armed and aggressive mercs, though.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 05:48 |
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Spiderfist Island posted:I really can't conceive of how somebody can willingly be paid to go and kill people. It's easy when you're a psychopath or have zero prospective job opportunities. The mercs in Libya aren't exactly the highest caliber either. They're just guns for hire. Fister Ardennes fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 20, 2011 |
# ? Feb 20, 2011 05:58 |
Joining this thread, thanks for all the good info guys.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 06:20 |
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Nenonen posted:'minor protests' in Somalia? I guess that's one way to put it when the country has been in civil war for twenty years now. That almost made me lol, Samolia is a poo poo hole of death and starvation..on the other hand Bahrain is beautiful as were all the people I met there, I hope they get what they want/deserve.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 06:39 |
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Okay I find this a little disturbing...Not as disturbing as doctors being murdered and protesters being shot with antiaircraft weapons, but still, a tad distressing all the same. From Ivory Coast:quote:A turning point? http://myfeedme.com/lm/ivory_coast/15257332 So this would be like the Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, seizing all the branches of Bank of America within Canada, including all the cash inside the branches at the time of seizure. Add to the scenario that Canada would be having a bank run at the time, the Canadian economy would be collapsing, and Stephen Harper would have lost the last election back in November, and it would be exactly the same. No wonder France is pissed.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 06:41 |
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Potrzebie posted:Al Hurra is US Govt. funded propaganda TV. So? It's information, it's not like it's false just because it happens to support U.S. policy.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 08:51 |
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and it's not like it's true just because it's on TV
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 09:16 |
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This is apparently an eyewitness account of what's going on in Libya (it's audio with translation). http://audioboo.fm/boos/282959-englishtrans-lpc-benghazi-man-muammar-s-special-forces-are-executing-doctors-libya-feb17 Lots of dead people, lots of foreigners shooting civilians. And Libya is basically using everything it can against its own people. Edit: From Al-Jazeera "9:23 am British foreign secretary William Hague had strong words yesterday for the "unacceptable violence" in Libya. In videotaped remarks, he noted reports that security forces there are using heavy weaponry and have deployed a sniper unit against protesters" Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Feb 20, 2011 |
# ? Feb 20, 2011 11:25 |
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Live blogs for today: AJE Guardian quote:Good morning. We'll be running live updates of events in the Middle East throughout the day. Here's a run down of the situation in some countries overnight.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 12:31 |
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The-Mole posted:strong words Now, you stop that gaddafi. Don't make us...well, you just stop all this nonsense!
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 12:49 |
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coleman francis posted:Now, you stop that gaddafi. Don't make us...well, you just stop all this nonsense! We wouldn't want all this commotion stressing al-Megrahi
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 14:02 |
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coleman francis posted:Now, you stop that gaddafi. Don't make us...well, you just stop all this nonsense! "Tut Tut! if you don't
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 14:59 |
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I checked out the protests in Beijing today... it seemed mostly like curious onlookers and a couple of people standing together outside McDonalds. Police quickly dispersed them, I don't think I saw any violence (but I didn't stick around long.) Don't think it's coming to China
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 15:06 |
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12517327quote:More than 200 people are known to have died, doctors say, with 900 injured [in Libya].
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 15:15 |
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Afternoon update from the Guardian:quote:Libya Gaddafi is a monster. [edit] Oh, and they've opened fire on another funeral today: quote:AP is reporting that Libyan security forces have again opened fire on mourners at a funeral for anti-government protesters killed in Benghazi yesterday. A man who was shot in leg says marchers were carrying coffins past a military compound when they came under fire. One person was killed, and 14 were injured, AP says. The report also seems to corroborate our earlier source in Benghazi (see 1.29pm), who claimed foreign mercenaries, apparently from Chad and Sudan, were taking part in the crackdown.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 15:31 |
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I'm becoming increasingly convinced that this could be the beginning of a Fourth Wave of Democracy and that the United States should put strategic and political considerations momentarily aside in order to aggressively promote and support nonviolent people's movements against autocratic regimes. What's Bahrain going to do, kick out the 5th Fleet and stare down Iran themselves? What will Yemen do, turn away our counter-terrorism aid and training? Great decline or not, America is still the indispensable nation and Obama needs to seize this opportunity to promote democracy the right way (IE not at gunpoint) as quickly as possible. gently caress, at the VERY least he needs to give one of his patented 'Grand Speeches' on the topic, poo poo.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 15:33 |
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Bahrain's actions are bizarre. Surely sending out indications that you're willing to hold reform discussions would go down better before you used lethal force against the protesters?
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 15:43 |
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If full scale conventional warfare against an unarmed civilian populace doesn't unify the Libyan people, I don't think anything will. I have a feeling it's gone past the point of no return.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 15:57 |
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Libya is out of control, flat out massacres... I thought the Libyan military was not very loyal to Gaddafi. Why is a Egypt type scenario not playing out with the Army preventing a slaughter? Summertime in the States is going to interesting... ganglysumbia fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Feb 20, 2011 |
# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:07 |
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He's using mercenaries apparently. From what I've read theres a big split between the cities in the East and the area around Tripoli. Reports from Tripoli I've read says a lot of people there think the people in the East are at best troublemakers, and at worst zionist spies from Egypt and Tunisia trying to overthrow their great leader.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:11 |
ganglysumbia posted:Libya is out of control, flat out massacres... He's flown in mercenaries. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2011/02/libya-protests-2.html I don't know how the protesters are going to keep dealing with that... it's a really bad scenario to say the least.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:18 |
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Pureauthor posted:Bahrain's actions are bizarre. Surely sending out indications that you're willing to hold reform discussions would go down better before you used lethal force against the protesters? You'll get more with a kind word and a gun, than you would with just a kind word. -Spock
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:19 |
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Christ. I was listening to the BBC World Service last night. The host was speaking live to someone on the ground in Libya - Until he gets cut off by mortars striking the crowds a few dozen meters from him. I don't think I've ever been as genuinely distressed by any media, ever.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:22 |
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ganglysumbia posted:Libya is out of control, flat out massacres... I heard rumours about that happening yesterday, I don't think anything came of it though. as for Tripoli, there are reports on twitter of protests there too, but I don't know if those can actually be trusted.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:24 |
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ganglysumbia posted:Libya is out of control, flat out massacres... Libyan army is a under-motivated joke despised by the people, and half the generals call Gaddafi "dad" or are just his lickspittle toadies. And mercenaries. I mean poo poo, they lost a war to Chad. Chad.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:24 |
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ganglysumbia posted:Libya is out of control, flat out massacres... In Egypt the army was involved in so many businesses that the people were literally their customers, and opening fire on them would have been bad for business. e: Also conscription in Egypt made it so the army had more loyalty to the people than the government. e2: Looking on wiki apparently the army has 18 months conscription, which makes my above point kind of moot. Not sure why they'd let this happen, unless their commanders told them to just let it go. Narmi fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Feb 20, 2011 |
# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:33 |
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Aljazeera just reported protesters have captured tanks and are driving them through the city....
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:39 |
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Toplowtech posted:It's getting far worse with Sarkozy. There is a current diplomatic row between Mexico and France because Sarkozy decided to dedicate the "Year of Mexico in France" (it's a yearly joint cultural celebration event in France with a new country each year and this year, it's Mexico's turn) to a French woman who is currently serving a 60 years sentence on kidnapping charges in Mexico. The Mexican government decided to withdraw. Sarkozy is the smoothest diplomat since Kaiser Wilhelm II. A bit of a derail, but I'm hoping Mexico goes back and puts those festivals on, instead the Mexicans dedicate their side of the deal to the crushing defeat of French forces at the Battle of Puebla. It'll be like Cinco De Mayo every day for that year.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:42 |
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200 civilians killed, attacked with bullets, mortars and a loving missile. What does the President of the United States have to say?quote:"I am deeply concerned by reports of violence in Bahrain, Libya and Yemen. The United States condemns the use of violence by governments against peaceful protesters in those countries, and wherever else it may occur," the president said in a statement read to reporters by White House press secretary Jay Carney. I am deeply concerned when I find out my local gamestore is out of Nintendo 3DS preorders. The massacre of peaceful civilians warrants something of a stronger statement, I would imagine. Note that Obama didn't even say this himself, but had some lackey read it to the press for him.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:51 |
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Lybian troops were the last ones to defend Idi Amin and now African mercenaries are the last to defend Gadaffi. You could could not make this stuff up. If it's actually true. Some of the reports, especially the ones that has women and children jumping off a bridge to escape the Africans have a very racist tone to them.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:51 |
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ganglysumbia posted:Aljazeera just reported protesters have captured tanks and are driving them through the city.... What? Where?
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:51 |
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BIG HORNY COW posted:If full scale conventional warfare against an unarmed civilian populace doesn't unify the Libyan people, I don't think anything will. I'll give it more one country to topple before we go that far. But Saudi Arabia getting involved in everybody's affair is going to be very interesting. If anything, capitalism as a concept is getting a good beating here: these protests are basically going against the corruption inherent in the system that a lot of people globally can relate to.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:52 |
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Craiglen posted:What? Where? Bengazi
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:54 |
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:I'll give it more one country to topple before we go that far. But Saudi Arabia getting involved in everybody's affair is going to be very interesting. If anything, capitalism as a concept is getting a good beating here: these protests are basically going against the corruption inherent in the system that a lot of people globally can relate to. As for a wider middle-eastern scope its anybody's guess.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 16:57 |
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BIG HORNY COW posted:Should clarify - I think its past the point of no return in LIBYA. Oh, I'll back you there. Libya will probably topple or become incredibly unstable.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 17:00 |
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CeeJee posted:Lybian troops were the last ones to defend Idi Amin and now African mercenaries are the last to defend Gadaffi. You could could not make this stuff up. It would only be racist if African mercenaries were known for their humanitarianism at some previous point of time. But they are not even soldiers anymore, they're criminals at best and animals at worst, created by deplorable living and political conditions in that part of the world.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 17:23 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 15:16 |
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Suntory BOSS posted:I'm becoming increasingly convinced that this could be the beginning of a Fourth Wave of Democracy and that the United States should put strategic and political considerations momentarily aside in order to aggressively promote and support nonviolent people's movements against autocratic regimes. What's Bahrain going to do, kick out the 5th Fleet and stare down Iran themselves? What will Yemen do, turn away our counter-terrorism aid and training? And make it look like USA organized the rebellions in the first place. That would only give the armed forces a legitimate reason to fire at protestors - they'd not be fighting against their people's will, they'd be defending their country against a foreign intervention. gently caress, even the protestors would take arms to fight against a US military expedition. It'd be just another quagmire of civil war like Iraq. Besides, if Obama really wanted to support democracy, he'd already have had Karzai removed.
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# ? Feb 20, 2011 18:08 |