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quadratic posted:Arabs absolutely love conspiracies. There is a cultural thing which makes accepting responsibility virtually impossible. The loss of honor is like the worst thing that can happen to an Arab.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:03 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 17:31 |
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I am really amazed at the volatility of these protests. This has all happened in 2 months. A week ago, Qhadaffi likely wouldn't have dreamed he'd be in the grossly uncertain position he is in today. A month ago Mubarak was solidly in control. Pretty loving amazing.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:07 |
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Rotacixe posted:There is a cultural thing which makes accepting responsibility virtually impossible. The loss of honor is like the worst thing that can happen to an Arab. Yes, and while we're at it, why don't you start talking about how they're savages who can't govern themselves? Close your racist trap.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:08 |
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This sounds like the death rattle of a regime way way past it's prime. I'm so excited for the people of Libya the will get the freedom they so badly deserve, hopefully sooner rather than later.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:08 |
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What's funny to me is that this past week I've been playing through Just Cause 2 on my pc, which if you're unfamiliar is a game where you're basically displacing the regime in this fictional south pacific island nation. Every time you do some mission and destroy government facilities you see these TV announcements about how everything is fine and the people love their glorious leader. Then I exit and flip back over to this thread or the AJE feed and it's like the same thing but with real life people being killed. Edit: also this dissident chick on AJE is hot. davebo fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Feb 21, 2011 |
# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:09 |
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Rotacixe posted:There is a cultural thing which makes accepting responsibility virtually impossible. The loss of honor is like the worst thing that can happen to an Arab. It'd be nice if you tried to back statements like this.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:10 |
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QuentinCompson posted:Yes, and while we're at it, why don't you start talking about how they're savages who can't govern themselves? I was sort of hoping he was taking quadratic's statement to the extreme to prove a point.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:10 |
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Hey I just wanted to chime in my thanks for the constant updates from you guys. I don' have time to follow all the twitters and Al-Jazeera so this thread has been a great source of info for me. Thanks guys.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:12 |
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ShortStack posted:This sounds like the death rattle of a regime way way past it's prime. I'm so excited for the people of Libya the will get the freedom they so badly deserve, hopefully sooner rather than later. I'm glad they have the agency now to secure their freedom and determine their own fate. Eventually, this had to happen. It proves one thing about life that still surprises me: no matter how solid something looks, no matter how utterly 'inevitable' some rule is, it will always eventually fall.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:12 |
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Some poor sod at the Guardian just started up a new Live Blog Apparently there's 4 protests in Tripoli at the moment.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:13 |
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So I just heard that the local administration in Benghazi is threatening to end oil exports to the West within 48 hours if violence doesn't end, via RDI live broadcast. This seems important but I wonder if anyone else can confirm this. Reuters is carrying it as well
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:13 |
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I heard that claimed a few times on AJE, but it's difficult to confirm anything at the moment.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:14 |
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Brown Moses posted:I heard that claimed a few times on AJE, but it's difficult to confirm anything at the moment. They were translating a message from a tribal leader, so I'd treat it as confirmed.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:15 |
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Xandu posted:I was sort of hoping he was taking quadratic's statement to the extreme to prove a point. He's not, look at the post history.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:17 |
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Xandu posted:They were translating a message from a tribal leader, so I'd treat it as confirmed. If they can back that up, then I think Hillary Clinton's going to have an Aasimov-esque logic error trying to sit on the fence here. I can appreciate why they're doing it, but the wait-and-see attitudes of many western governments on this whole debacle have been disgusting.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:25 |
Isentropy posted:So I just heard that the local administration in Benghazi is threatening to end oil exports to the West within 48 hours if violence doesn't end, via RDI live broadcast. This seems important but I wonder if anyone else can confirm this. Suck it, Qaddafi!
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:26 |
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QuentinCompson posted:Yes, and while we're at it, why don't you start talking about how they're savages who can't govern themselves? You've obviously never dealt with Arabs if you don't think that family honor is supreme.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:27 |
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Someone in Foggy Bottom read my post quote:Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the Obama administration would support—but not seek to direct—pro-democracy forces... Exactly what I was asking for a few pages back. Took the Administration a while to formulate a cohesive and united strategy but this looks like the beginning of exactly that. As long as we can avoid tarnishing the movements by our association, this will be a positive development.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:32 |
The-Mole posted:You've obviously never dealt with Arabs if you don't think that family honor is supreme.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:33 |
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How are u posted:It'd be nice if you tried to back statements like this. I didn't realize that it was going to be controversial. I don't see how anyone can deny that they like to blame everyone else for their problems. Especially Israel. Israel might not be a force for good, but they give it too much credit. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/219504/israel-did-it/victor-davis-hanson Al-Jazeera's editor in chief Ahmed Sheikh: quote:Sheikh: In many Arab states, the middle class is disappearing. The rich get richer and the poor get still poorer. Look at the schools in Jordan, Egypt or Morocco: You have up to 70 youngsters crammed together in a single classroom. How can a teacher do his job in such circumstances? The public hospitals are also in a hopeless condition. These are just examples. They show how hopeless the situation is for us in the Middle East.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:35 |
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Nessus posted:So like, are they asking us to send in the Marines? Are they volunteering to be invaded by America? If I was Obama I'd laugh and send him back this: "Be sure to give our regards to Libya's new president on the way to the firing squad, rear end in a top hat."
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:38 |
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Transcript of Saif Gadaffi's speech, for those who missed the oh so insightful analysis of the current developments http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/exiledsurfer/~oJiWX Tarnek fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Feb 21, 2011 |
# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:39 |
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Nessus posted:So like, are they asking us to send in the Marines? Are they volunteering to be invaded by America? WOAH WOAH, hold it buddy! Some gunship policy logic you've got there. The tribal leader is demanding the government forces to stop the violence, or else the only source of income will be plugged. Where did you read a request for foreign invasion in that? And US Marines, on top of that? What makes you think that any Arab Muslim would want them to invade their homes? It'd be like the Tea Party asking for Russians to come and protect them from Obama. e: or did you mean that Gaddafi is asking for intervention... IDGI Nenonen fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Feb 21, 2011 |
# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:39 |
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davebo posted:What's funny to me is that this past week I've been playing through Just Cause 2 on my pc, which if you're unfamiliar is a game where you're basically displacing the regime in this fictional south pacific island nation. Every time you do some mission and destroy government facilities you see these TV announcements about how everything is fine and the people love their glorious leader. Then I exit and flip back over to this thread or the AJE feed and it's like the same thing but with real life people being killed. I started playing Tropico 3 this week, in which you actually play as the glorious leader. Pretty funny timing, I know.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:40 |
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Barbary War III: The Barbariest
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:41 |
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Rotacixe posted:I didn't realize that it was going to be controversial. Durr those Arabs sure like to blame everyone else for their problems! It's not like their current countries were invented out of whole cloth by the West after the Ottoman Empire was crushed in WWI! It's not like the whole reason Lebanon is so unstable is their constitution, which was written by the French and disenfranchises the Shi'a to a crazy extent. It's not like Syria is a patchwork amalgam of ethnic groups that were turned against one another by colonial divide-and-conquer tactics. It's not like Iraq and Jordan were also invented by the British and were given to the sons of Sharif Hussein Ali, someone from loving Istanbul, to rule. And here are the Arabs, rising up and taking control of their own destinies in a beautiful example of human spirit and all you racist clowns can do is bleat like lobotomized sheep about HONOR and LOVE OF CONSPIRACIES. QuentinCompson fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Feb 21, 2011 |
# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:42 |
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Suntory BOSS posted:Barbary War III: The Barbariest I think you mean Barbary War 3: Obarbar's Brabrabar.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:42 |
Nenonen posted:WOAH WOAH, hold it buddy! Some gunship policy logic you've got there. The tribal leader is demanding the government forces to stop the violence, or else the only source of income will be plugged. Where did you read a request for foreign invasion in that?
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:44 |
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Nessus posted:I misread this as a threat to the world from the main government, not a threat from a tribe to the main government. MY BAD Ah, well in that case... Actually that might be made into an interesting scenario. Muammar could rig a few oil tankers with explosives and then send them to the coasts of Spain, France, Italy and Greece, then demand EU to quell the uprisings or the tankers will blow up. <strokes the white cat>
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:48 |
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Nenonen posted:Ah, well in that case... Ah yes, the "Hackers" contingency.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:50 |
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I'm willing to support another Barbary War as long as the ending treaty includes a modern version of Article 11 from the Treaty of Tripoli.
farraday fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Feb 21, 2011 |
# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:50 |
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The Brown Menace posted:I think you mean Barbary War 3: Obarbar's Brabrabar.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:53 |
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http://www.libyafeb17.com/ says that people were getting shot during the speech, twitter reports snipers in Tripoli and that mercenaries have started attacking people in their homes
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 01:54 |
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ShortStack posted:http://www.libyafeb17.com/ says that people were getting shot during the speech, twitter reports snipers in Tripoli and that mercenaries have started attacking people in their homes Well hello there: http://www.libyafeb17.com/?p=1283 Gaddafi has already fled the country to Venezuela or Brazil. My money is on the former.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 02:08 |
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QuentinCompson posted:Durr those Arabs sure like to blame everyone else for their problems! It's not like their current countries were invented out of whole cloth by the West after the Ottoman Empire was crushed in WWI! It's not like the whole reason Lebanon is so unstable is their constitution, which was written by the French and disenfranchises the Shi'a to a crazy extent. It's not like Syria is a patchwork amalgam of ethnic groups that were turned against one another by colonial divide-and-conquer tactics. It's not like Iraq and Jordan were also invented by the British and were given to the sons of Sharif Hussein Ali, someone from loving Istanbul, to rule. I see. It's racist to criticize cultural aspects of less developed countries. They are strong enough to defend their own beliefs. You don't have to do it for them. I also don't think that i attributed every single misfortune of the Arab world to their culture. But some of the things they do sure look strange, if you view them from an Western POV and not theirs. http://213.251.145.96/cable/1979/08/79TEHRAN8980.html http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_17/articles/deatkine_arabs1.html
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 02:10 |
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GnatKingCoal posted:Someone here did this as a Photoshop a while back (sorry, don't remember who). Babar went to Europe, became Westernized, and returned to rule his African kingdom, with the supposed support of the colonial power. Some have criticized the book as trying to gloss over the often bloody and messy history of French involvement in Africa:
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 02:11 |
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Rotacixe posted:I see. It's racist to criticize cultural aspects of less developed countries. They are strong enough to defend their own beliefs. You don't have to do it for them. I personally think Quentin is getting his panties in a bunch over a not-so-important comment, but I think I should point out that the first link is about Iranians, who are Persian. Not Arab. Different ethnicities.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 02:17 |
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Rotacixe posted:I see. It's racist to criticize cultural aspects of less developed countries. They are strong enough to defend their own beliefs. You don't have to do it for them. Right, so you're clearly reading that cable and then aligning with the American diplomat. Which is hilarious. You either can't read or you're some kind of weird troll. If it's the former, I wonder why Iranians might be suspicious of Americans and unwilling to form a relationship with them, I mean, it's not like the CIA trained the Shah's secret police in the subtle art of dipping people in acid three short years after overthrowing a democratically elected leader in favor of a reactionary Western-aligned monarch. It also might be pertinent to the current discussion if Persians were Arabs. Hint: they're not and they haven't even been under Arab rule for the last eleven plus centuries so you can't use that as a reason for bringing it up.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 02:18 |
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QuentinCompson posted:And here are the Arabs, rising up and taking control of their own destinies in a beautiful example of human spirit and all you racist clowns can do is bleat like lobotomized sheep about HONOR and LOVE OF CONSPIRACIES. Please don't conflate my post with subsequent ones spouting misguided views about honor and its place in Arab societies. The current events make it pretty clear that the people aren't buying whatever foreign intervention conspiracies the dictators are trying to sell them. Maybe I should have included a smilie or something
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 02:24 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 17:31 |
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Paradox Personified posted:Also, a new relevant article: In Sub-Saharan Africa, boys were named "Kalash" after the Kalashnikov AK-47. This is, obviously, a better sign of things to come. benito posted:Someone here did this as a Photoshop a while back (sorry, don't remember who). Babar went to Europe, became Westernized, and returned to rule his African kingdom, with the supposed support of the colonial power. Some have criticized the book as trying to gloss over the often bloody and messy history of French involvement in Africa: Holy poo poo. That's a blast from the past. I did that about a year ago. I forgot what the thread was, something about "real" children's books. It's nice to see someone saved it.
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# ? Feb 21, 2011 02:24 |