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Mr.Showtime posted:I really doubt that the new governors in Egypt wants to get involved in a war of any kind but that might just be me. There are wars and then there are wars. Being the well compensated Arab point man for preventing crimes against humanity in Libya is fairly different from invading.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:22
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This is good, perhaps CNN can get way better corroborated information.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:22
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Brown Moses posted:To be honest this is making the Green Movement look kinda faggy. Iranians do love their V-necks.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:23
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Uglycat posted:The fact that supporting client states out of (perceived) self-interest has ended horribly is sufficient to assume a self-interested organization might rethink that approach. I dunno champ we had a pretty good run. The end doesn't sting so much when you realize that you had however many decades of absolute control. This is true for the dictators themselves specifically; they've had lives of extraordinary indulgence and the only reason they wouldn't approach their deaths with smug grins on their faces is because we humans tend to lose sight of the big picture like that when the end is near. For us, the ending is even less horrible because it is often all too easy to start things up again.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:24
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farraday posted:There are wars and then there are wars. Being the well compensated Arab point man for preventing crimes against humanity in Libya is fairly different from invading. If you think the military in Egypt wants to get its hands dirty and hurt relations with pretty much every other country in the region you are a crazy person. Edit: Egypt has been and still will be well funded by America, that won't change. They have nothing to gain by getting into a war that they can't gain by simply providing humanitarian aid.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:26
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Mr.Showtime posted:If you think the military in Egypt wants to get its hands dirty and hurt relations with pretty much every other country in the region you are a crazy person. You completely failed to understand my post, but thank you for responding.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:29
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So then exactly what are you saying.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:30
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Greyhawk posted:Well, considering the border to Egypt seems to no longer be staffed, I guess he just wandered in. The Egyptian side of the border is staffed and they're preventing Egyptian nationals from entering Libya but allowing in all aid convoys + the military is setting up field hospitals and refugee camps (for Libyans and Egyptians, there's almost 500,000 Egyptians in Libya) on the border in the town of Salum. I'm guessing they wouldn't have issues with letting a foreign reporter in though. Plus: The Egyptian Air Force is mostly trained by the US Air Force so it's not like they lack the training, however they definitely lack in air superiority capabilities as they're limited to the AIM-9X missile.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:30
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Syphilicious! posted:I dunno champ we had a pretty good run. The end doesn't sting so much when you realize that you had however many decades of absolute control. This is true for the dictators themselves specifically; they've had lives of extraordinary indulgence and the only reason they wouldn't approach their deaths with smug grins on their faces is because we humans tend to lose sight of the big picture like that when the end is near. For us, the ending is even less horrible because it is often all too easy to start things up again. That's certainly a direction the western leadership could pursue. I believe it would be unwise. But there's no a priori reason they couldn't pursue a different path. Say, one where they respect a population's right to self-determination, but refuse to sit idly by while a military force is slaughtering innocent civilians for daring to speak and peaceably assemble.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:30
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Interesting, the US doesn't have an ambassador to Libya. He was recalled back to DC after wikileaks revealed insensitive comments. edit: video of Libyan diplomats in NYC attacking Gaddafi is great. Everyone's jumping ship.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:31
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We're all hosed now. Bahrain has cancelled Formula 1.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:41
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dude on aje: Europe, Egypt, Nato etc. could have airplanes capable to enforce no-flight zones on station in 30 minutes notice
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Feb 22, 2011 00:46
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The Casualty posted:We're all hosed now. Bahrain has cancelled Formula 1. Welcome to last week.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:47
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Banano posted:Welcome to last week. Actually it was only canceled today. The GP2 Asia Series race was canceled last week.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:48
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The Casualty posted:We're all hosed now. Bahrain has cancelled Formula 1.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:49
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Ban Ki-Moon has said attacks on protesters using aircraft "would constitute a serious violation of international humanitarian law". Hopefully that'll make at least some members of the military think twice before breaking international law.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:49
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'King of Kings of Africa' indeed. What an evil piece of poo poo.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:50
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farraday posted:There are wars and then there are wars. Being the well compensated Arab point man for preventing crimes against humanity in Libya is fairly different from invading. This isn't the French revolution. The Egyptian provisional government consists of the same old Mubarak people, and even if they weren't that, they would have no popular mandate to invade their neighbour. Egypt needs to have its economy fixed so that people can eat. "Short victorious wars", while tempting, come second.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:50
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This just in: SultanAlQassemi: Al Jazeera anchor: Libyan State TV: Gaddafi will give a live interview from in front of his house. Oh God, this is going to be insane. (assuming it happens) Cacatua fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Feb 22, 2011 |
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Feb 22, 2011 00:50
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Nenonen posted:This isn't the French revolution. The Egyptian provisional government consists of the same old Mubarak people, and even if they weren't that, they would have no popular mandate to invade their neighbour. Yeah, this. If there's military action to be taken, it's going to come down from the UN, not a regional power. The regional powers are a bit preoccupied at the moment.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:52
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Cacatua posted:This just in: CNN just had a clip of him holding and umbrella and getting out of a truck saying that he was still in Libya.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:53
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Brown Moses posted:Ban Ki-Moon has said attacks on protesters using aircraft "would constitute a serious violation of international humanitarian law". Hopefully that'll make at least some members of the military think twice before breaking international law. Yeah Ban Ki, THAT'll show 'em! God, he has a way of saying nothing of importance with so many words. Seeing him live was rather sobering.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:53
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Cacatua posted:This just in: They've been announcing that for 2 hours now. I hope he speeds up, I need to go to bed.
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Feb 22, 2011 00:53
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Xandu posted:I don't know why you think France or Italy have any credibility. France has sold weapons to Libya that have been shown to have been used against protesters and has been close with Gaddafi for the past decade for economic reasons. Italy imports a huge amount of Libyan oil and Berlusconi is quite friendly with Gaddafi.  If you speak french, you can watch the current French ambassador in Tunisia (yeah the one who insulted the Tunisian people) here, defending Gaddafi on french Television a few years ago, it's quite disgusting ("Gaddafi has changed!"). Apparently, he was quite proud that Gaddafi was calling him "my son".
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Feb 22, 2011 00:55
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Toplowtech posted:Moammar! My man! Gimmie some skin!
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Feb 22, 2011 00:57
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Toplowtech posted:
He looks like the evil tiger from junglebook.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:01
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Wedeman on CNN right now. Very rough copy "what we're seeing is clearly an open revolt against the government, we didn't see any police any army. The only groups in control are the so-called popular committees with youths with guns. We do know that the government out of Tripoli may try to reassert its authority. We were concerned with Libyan paratroopers...16k have left [to Egypt]. Gas stations are open there a few stores open, it appears that for the moment there's no immediate threat. No compunction using brutal force against the movement." "People are worried we're getting reports it's really hard to confirm not being able to got there, there have been some air strikes and there are concerns that there are these mercenaries the Libyan government has hired..we were told 150 had been captured and were being guarded."
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Feb 22, 2011 01:03
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When I wrote well compensated Arabic point man apparently everyone decided to read "and no one else". The reason Egypt would be point is because the western countries who would want to react would want as much Arabic cover as physically possible. Meanwhile, despite frankly silly claims Egypt is still just being run by Mubarak men, they do not want the civil unrest caused by denying cooperation to an international effort to aid protesters in Libya would cause in their own cities. Egypt ends up well compensated through diplomatic agreements that have it's air force act as the public face of any international effort to close off Libyan airspace and the west gets to "do something" without creating impressions of Imperialistic invasion. Or you could just say I want Egypt to invade Libya. That's close I guess.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:04
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Brown Moses posted:Ban Ki-Moon has said attacks on protesters using aircraft "would constitute a serious violation of international humanitarian law". Hopefully that'll make at least some members of the military think twice before breaking international law. I hate to be hard on the UN because they mean well (not even going to touch the Glenn Beck crowd conspiracies there) but they're useless.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:04
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Banano posted:Welcome to last week. The story date is Feb 21st and it's on AJE's front page, and it's being posted facetiously anyways, so don't be so butt-hurt. Ham posted:Plus: The Egyptian Air Force is mostly trained by the US Air Force so it's not like they lack the training, however they definitely lack in air superiority capabilities as they're limited to the AIM-9X missile. quote:In the 1990s Egypt spent as much as 80 percent of US military aid on the air force. As part of the 'Peace Vector Program', the Egyptian air force made four orders of F-16s, totaling 190 planes. About 130 F-16s had arrived and the last batch, which will be assembled in Turkey, will start arriving around 1997. Egypt also obtained approval for the purchase of 21 F-16C aircraft. The EAF modernized its F-16 fighters to have the capability of carrying and lunching AIM-7 Sparrow AAM and AGM-84 Harpoon anti-shipping missiles and GBU TV stand off guided bombes. The Air Force has continued to receive a flow of F-16 fighter aircraft from the US. By 1995, the EAF had a total of some 170 F-16A/B/C and D variant fighters in service.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:04
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Toplowtech posted:This picture is much funnier if you imagine that instead of them going in for a handshake, they are in the process of a much more elaborate handshake, and are currently about to do the "backhand slap".
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Feb 22, 2011 01:05
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"They are hoping that he never asserts his authority at least in this part of the country. The eastern part of Libya was successful in bringing the army, [hoping] the same will take place in the other part of the country. We've seen today the government is willing to use air forces against unarmed demonstrators. The word is that Gaddafi is not going to step down, the [czech dictator] of the Arab world. That is what worries people here."
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Feb 22, 2011 01:05
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Nenonen posted:they would have no popular mandate to invade their neighbour There are about 500,000 Egyptians living and working in Libya who are now being specifically targeted along with Tunisians by Qaddafi's people after his son's speech last night, so that's a pretty serious cause but I don't see the military intervering other than in humanitarian ways. Also 15,000 Egyptians have crossed the border into Egypt today, so far.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:06
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Woops. Anyway, Egypt and Tunisia (possibly Turkey) could intervene.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:08
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farraday posted:Meanwhile, despite frankly silly claims Egypt is still just being run by Mubarak men You lost me here cause you don't know what you're talking about.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:08
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SultanAlQassemi: Gaddadi now on TV Edit: http://twitter.com/SultanAlQassemi He'll be translating.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:08
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Cacatua posted:SultanAlQassemi: Gaddadi now on TV I think it was just that short clip saying "hey guys I"m still here, not in Venezuela"
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Feb 22, 2011 01:10
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Cacatua posted:SultanAlQassemi: Gaddadi now on TV According to the BBC, for a few seconds in a totally surreal way with an umbrella. e: and the bloke looks pretty pissed off heh, after all these hours of waiting
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Feb 22, 2011 01:10
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Bet he denies or at least distances himself from the massacres, blaming them on overly aggressive subordinates who will be duly punished.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:10
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Mr.Showtime posted:You lost me here cause you don't know what you're talking about. Don't be obtuse. Mubarak wouldn't have done half the things that have happened so far in Egypt. Claiming it is all a power shuffle with nothing changes is just paranoid conspiracy theorizing.
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Feb 22, 2011 01:10
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