|
Apparently the Libyan deputy foreign minister has promised to Al Jazeera to immolate himself:quote:Khaled Al Ga’aeem: Good evening, the reason I am calling is to seek the truth and only the truth. I want stress two facts to the viewers in the Arab nation [world] - and especially to Libyans inside and outside Libya. And I take personal and full responsibility, and I am ready - not only to resign from my post - but also set myself on fire in the Green Square - if it is confirmed that there were mercenaries from African states coming by planes and if it is confirmed that there was aerial bombardment. And, by the way, I asked the British ambassador to be a witness and to bring a media crew tomorrow morning to tour all Tripoli to look for find any aftermath of aerial bombardment or discriminate bombardment. I will bear full responsibility and I will pay with my life as a price for it.
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 12:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 13:52 |
|
|
Vernii posted:I've been unable to find anything that identifies what type of units those are, but if they are purely infantry, then could be between 1500-6400 men as an estimate, which would be between 3-12% of the army right there, if we assumed 100% defections among those units, and 100% loyalists in other units. Hopefully they are armored brigades though, those would have a lot more firepower at hand. I heard on the news that they had anti-tank rockets (going to assume RPGS) I can't see Libya having modern tanks and AFV's capable of taking many RPG rounds.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 12:15
|
|
|
schadenfraud posted:Good news: My friend is still alive. Man, even when things are starting to look up, there's still depressing news. Obviously the massacres of yesterday were a disturbing tragedy, but what about the thousands upon thousands of living people who were exposed to this? Will this affect the country somewhere down the line? For fucks sake, no child should have to be exposed to something like this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 12:32
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:Apparently the Libyan deputy foreign minister has promised to Al Jazeera to immolate himself:
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 12:32
|
|
|
Vernii posted:I've been unable to find anything that identifies what type of units those are, but if they are purely infantry, then could be between 1500-6400 men as an estimate, which would be between 3-12% of the army right there, if we assumed 100% defections among those units, and 100% loyalists in other units. Hopefully they are armored brigades though, those would have a lot more firepower at hand. I have read that Libyan army is undermanned, with only 25-30% of the nominal man strength, and even the best formations are not full strenght. Given the current situation, many of even those may have already left their formations, so a 'brigade' might be as big as a company.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 12:37
|
|
|
Sounds like more journalists are getting into Libya, and that there will be alot of new pictures and footage from the past few days avaliable soon. From AJE:quote:Within the past half-hour, Al Jazeera's Jamal Elshayyal arrived at Sidi Barani, a town on the Egyptian side of the border with Libya, a little more than 500km east of Benghazi, the site of some of the biggest anti-regime protests and worst violence. Libyan emigrants have "rushed" to his crew to share memory sticks full of pictures and video from recent days. There is a "terrible" story to be told, Elshayyal says.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 12:41
|
|
|
My God, I just checked on youtube to see if Glenn Beck had actually weighed in on this yet, and instead I found a segment of Alex Jones speaking. I had heard about this guy but... in the first two minutes, he said that modernists are trying to get dictators thrown out of countries so they can introduce fluoride, lithium, vaccines and rock & roll to steal people's will to live. The sad thing is, Alex Jones is actually more logical about the revolutions than Glenn Beck, saying you can't view them in a one-dimensional good/bad way, but then he goes on to say that these things could easily be manipulated by George Soros. Where do these people find there viewership?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 12:56
|
|
|
It's basically people who want to feel like unique snowflakes because they know "the truth", unlike they sheeple that surround them. It gives them a way to feel superior to other people, and in a way that anyone's denial of "the truth" and therefore their superiority are just sheeple, reinforcing their sense of superiroity. Fundamentlist Christians work in very much the same way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:01
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:It's basically people who want to feel like unique snowflakes because they know "the truth", unlike they sheeple that surround them. It gives them a way to feel superior to other people, and in a way that anyone's denial of "the truth" and therefore their superiority are just sheeple, reinforcing their sense of superiroity. Yeah, it's 50% people wanting to feel important (an almost universal human desire) and 50% projecting their own distrust of the world onto the unknown and unverifiable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:05
|
|
|
This would be a great opportunity for the ICC to show its teeth and do something worthwhile.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:07
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:Apparently the Libyan deputy foreign minister has promised to Al Jazeera to immolate himself: Now that's a Toxx clause 
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:08
|
|
|
Some news about the situation in Tripoli:quote:Salem Gnan, a London-based spokesman for the National Front for the Salvation of Libya, told the Guardian he has spoken to his brother-in-law this morning who reports dead bodies in the streets of Tripoli. quote:Dr Ali al-Essawi, until Monday the Libyan ambassador to India, was one of the first to resign from his post in the wake of the uprising in his country. He tells the BBC World Service what he knows about events in Libya: "Well the latest information is that there is using of aircraft and helicopters and firing at the protesters on the ground, and using the foreign mercenaries to scare the families back home behind the protesters; they are scaring the families of the protesters because they stay alone... they go back and kill the wives and children and women in the house..."
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:16
|
|
|
News from outside Tripoli:quote:Maimuna, who lives 210km from Tripoli in Musrata, says people are being very cautious: "At the moment, it is calm but it is a nervous calm. Everyone is calling each other for information and watching the news for the latest updates. Compared to last night, the atmosphere is a little less tense. At around 0100 it was really bad as it was rumoured that there were aeroplane and helicopters hovering about. We were not sure what they were doing, but we heard them. I read on the internet that the planes had mercenaries on them. Today people are moving freely but we are being cautious. People have been told to remain at home, but my brother has gone to work. People don't go out at night past dark, and all stores are closed. Everyone has been locking their doors - usually they leave them open."
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:19
|
|
|
I heard on the radio, before it turned to some Clear Channel funded conservative bullshit about how they're all inevitably going to turn into radical Islamic caliphate provinces, that the Libyan air force guys who got told to bomb their people largely flew to Malta. I don't know if that came up already but I thought it was heartwarming.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:23
|
|
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2bDtQV_9YA That's a lot of mercenaries.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:25
|
|
|
Less heart warming is the barracks that was burnt to the ground filled with soldiers who refused to attack citizens, and 150 or so soldiers found in a mass grave for also refusing the same orders.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:25
|
|
|
More from Tripoli:quote:One Libyan demonstrator, Yasmin, is outside the Libyan embassy in Dubai. She has been telling the BBC World Service about her conversations with relatives in Tripoli and Benghazi: "The situation at the moment in Tripoli is that there are planes flying, they are shooting randomly in the streets, they are using anti-aircraft weapons. He [Gaddafi] sent mercenaries: People from Chad, from Ghana, now they are saying there's eastern Europeans coming in as well. They are coming into people's homes; they are attacking, raping and killing. They've been killing doctors in the hospitals."
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:29
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:Apparently the Libyan deputy foreign minister has promised to Al Jazeera to immolate himself: Al Jazeera interview posted:AJ: (Responding to KAG's assertion that AJ must prove itself "professional" to be allowed in Libya) Anyway, since we are having a test, can you give us some indication what will be judged as to whether we passed or not. I mean, gives us some hints…  sass-mouth AJ interviewer posted:AJ: Khaled Al Ga’aeem, thank you for joining us, sir. You’ve been the perfect representative of the regime.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:39
|
|
|
Libyan Ambassador to the US has stopped working for the government:quote:Libya's ambassador to the US, Ali Aujali, has said he no longer represents his country's "dictatorship regime" and has called on Col Gaddafi to step down: "I resign from serving the current dictatorship regime. But I will never resign from serving our people until their voices reach the whole world, until their goals are achieved," he told ABC television in the US. "I am calling for him [Gaddafi] to go and leave our people alone." From Twitter: Al Mahdi Al Arabi, Deputy Chief of Staff, rumoured to be under house arrest, also rumoured to have lead a failed coup attempt Lieutenant Abdel Fatah Younis El Obeidi, Minister of Public Security, rumoured to have joined the protests. Whereabouts unknown. Confirmed: Egy army has created a camp on the border and receiving libyans and egyptians for medical help etc UPDATE:whole Libyan airspace open, only Benghazi airport closed. Gas deliveries via pipeline from #Libya to #Italy are slowing down. Meanwhile Italian Stock Exchange is closed to avoid disorderly selling. Gaddafi said he'll let media in.Reports that #Tripoli being cleaned now, to disguise what happened last night.! Outside of Libya there's a massive protest in Bahrain at the moment. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Feb 22, 2011 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 13:57
|
|
|
whoflungpoop posted:According to rumors, Ghanians in the capital are now being offered $2500/day. If it's true, Ghanian mercs are showing good business savvy. Wait until the regime's really desperate and then bill them for overtime Cant believe how long it took me to make this and the lovely trial software (complete with ridiculous stamping of their dumb site on every frame) I had to install all because I dont have my copy of PS, BUT 
Ducky fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Feb 22, 2011 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 14:01
|
|
|
From Twitter: Breaking: manager of Afriqiyah airline resigns: "will not allow pilots to bring in mercenaries" Libya : The ambassador of Libya to Tunisia resigned as well Qatari newspaper reports that #Cairo warned #Tripoli of military intervention to protect Egyptians residing in #Libya. Interesting if true. Revolutionaries clashing with mercs and troops trying to clean up Fashloom and hide evidence of battles Al Jazeera: Reuters: Reports that anti-Gaddafi protesters are now in control of the Libyan-Egyptian borders Egyptian doctors with medical supplies had been waiting hours to cross into #Libya. Egyptians very sympathetic to Libyan plight. Zakariya Salem Saad: The mercenaries have been given Anti Bullet Vests to protect them from the police who have joined the protesters Witness Tripoli; massive protest expected 2night Food shortage,++ violence by security forces in Tripoli Other news: quote:An anonymous writer tells us: "I just would like you to know that we just heard from a confidential source in Tripoli that: 'Soldiers stormed the Radisson hotel in central Tripoli last night. They fired shots in the hotel, but no one was harmed. They seized some laptops and passports from foreigners.'" quote:Alex from Coolum, Australia, has forwarded us the latest email from his wife, who is a teacher in Tripoli: "Things deteriorating. Still in hiding, going for the airport tomorrow early, hopefully road blocks will be down, things are always quieter in the morning. The British Embassy is doing nothing for us, the Irish in Malta and Ireland are trying to get us on a military flight evac., as there are no tickets to be had. We will try for any flight out no matter where. There are gunships firing on the people, 1000's are marching on Tripoli from all small cities."
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 14:14
|
|
|
It seems like they're fighting back against the mercenaries and the Gaddafi loyalist troops. They have the police and a few army units on their side, which means they must be pretty well armed. Do we know how many army units sided with the protesters?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 14:26
|
|
|
It's really impossible to know, but it must be a lot in the East if they've managed to take control of the whole area. Seems the mercenaries are avoiding areas where they actually might have a chance of encountering armed resistance, so the east is pretty safe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 14:29
|
|
|
Regular army units in countries like Libya are often given no ammunition in their barracks. Their ability to fight may be very limited compared to the well supplied units loyal to the regime and any foreign mercenaries.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 14:34
|
|
|
CeeJee posted:Regular army units in countries like Libya are often given no ammunition in their barracks. Their ability to fight may be very limited compared to the well supplied units loyal to the regime and any foreign mercenaries. All that matters is that they aren't fighting against the people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 14:40
|
|
|
More bitsquote:A doctor in Tripoli, who does not wish to be named, tells the BBC: "I'm a medical doctor and I'm working in a hospital. I've seen a lot, a lot of people dying in front of me. They force us to treat the regime or militia rather than our people. And there is a lot, a lot of dead people. It was a massacre, especially yesterday and the day before." quote:BBC Monitoring says Libyan TV is now showing pro-Gaddafi protesters gathering in Tripoli's Green Square, but only a few dozen of them can be seen. Protesters in the centre are waving Libyan flags and holding up pictures of the Libyan leaders. Most protesters on the fringes are standing motionless. From Twitter: Italian TV announces possible intervention from its military forces in the south in #Libya. Turkish citizen in East Libya told Turkish TV they had been taken hostage by "Sudanese or Somalian" mercenaries Confirmed African female mercenaries seen at the city of Tajoura firing at protestors. From Eye Witness in #Tripoli. Fighter Jets have started to use MISSILES. I SAW them with my own two eyes. Aircraft are now firing at crowds along Jamahereya Road My friend in #Libya, says security forces entered hospital in tajoura & destroyed all the blood donations desperately needed for the injured The #Libyan ambassador to #Bangladesh has resigned and "deserted the authorities in #Tripoli, siding with pro-democracy protesters." i've seen some former soldiers..now side by side with 'people' with s'ons of revolt' called uncle: family are ok, he's in the car around #tripoli. very quite and streets are full of dead bodies. Libyan protestors are tweeting thru the site bit.ly which Gadaffi can't block, because .ly is the domain name assigned to #Libya... amazing. I can confirm that #Libya regime has started a propaganda campaign to cast doubt upon international & independent reportings 5 tunisian passenger planes have been refused to land to take the Tunisians in #libya. Libya allowed two Egyptian military aircraft to land in Libya and evacuate Egyptian workers - state news agency via Reuters Al Jazeera Arabic now showing dozens of passports of various African states that supposedly belong to the mercenaries in More reports on "mercenaries" in #Libya. Seems like a mixed bunch - Africa, Europeans, even Pakistanis! No full confirmations yet @richardengelnbc #Libya lots of informal checkpoints. men with hunting rifles, clubs..organized by tribes FLASH - Iran has stopped oil activities in #Libya, to evacuate staff in next 48 hours Just in - Al Jazeera : 12 Libyan diplomats resign from their posts including the Libyan ambassador to France & to the UNESCO.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 14:44
|
|
|
quote:Speaking to BBC Radio 4's World at One, the former United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator Sir John Holmes said unanimous international condemnation of the Libyan government's actions was needed: "There are sanctions available, but sanctions are also a very blunt instrument and really only really effective, if they ever are, over a long period. If the regime is fighting for their life they're not going to be listening very much to the words from outside. But I would hope that if the condemnation from the international community is unanimous, including from other Arab countries, including from some of the countries who don't normally speak out clearly in these cases - the Russians and the Chinese - so it's not just the usual Western suspects, that's got more chance of having an effect than simply condemnation from, say, London or Washington." At the moment I don't think sanctions are going to do jack poo poo. It's like telling the man raping your mother than you are doing to write a letter of complaint to the local police authority.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 14:59
|
|
|
Mercenary fun:quote:In an interview with BBC Arabic TV, the Libyan writer Goma El-Gamaty says: "Libya is in a state of madness. Gaddafi has gone mad. He wants to burn the land. He is imposing a curfew by force. African mercenaries who speak English and French are wandering in the city in armoured vehicles. They are shooting anyone they see in the street, and there are other cars behind them to collect these dead bodies and they take [them] to a military base called 'maateka' to burn them there." quote:Citizens from Mali, Chad and Niger were "definitely" amongst the security forces serving in Libya, Malian journalist Adam Thiam tells BBC Network Africa. Guardian Live Blog afternoon update: quote:• Muammar Gaddafi remains Libyan leader, despite intensifying calls for him to step down. Overnight Gaddafi appeared on state TV to refute claims he had fled the country. The station claimed he was speaking from outside his house, but rumours persist as to his actual whereabouts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:07
|
|
|
Old Crazy Bastard is giving a speech soon, according to State TV. Anytime in the next 3 hours then.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:12
|
|
|
If the sclerotic old demon insists on staying much longer he'll hang like Mussolini.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:19
|
|
|
As long as they put it on Youtube.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:21
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:
Is it odd that this seems especially atrocious? Sabotaging a blood bank? Like you've actually said openly "I do not care if you, or anyone in this building, lives or dies, but I don't have the balls to go door-to-door and slaughter you." Though at this point, I don't know why they wouldn't. Qualms seem to be in short supply in the region. Also: Brown Moses" posted:As long as they put it on Youtube. Now that's a YouTube link I'd click on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:27
|
|
|
EskimoFreeState posted:Is it odd that this seems especially atrocious? Sabotaging a blood bank? Like you've actually said openly "I do not care if you, or anyone in this building, lives or dies, but I don't have the balls to go door-to-door and slaughter you." Though at this point, I don't know why they wouldn't. Qualms seem to be in short supply in the region. When Brown Moses posts all those Twitter feeds in a row (and thanks for keeping the information flowing) it almost starts to read like some kind of macabre version of Chuck Norris meme style oneupmanship for how horrible things can be. It really sounds like hell on earth at this point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:33
|
|
|
gently caress Gaddafi. I don't know what else to say about Libya at this point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:35
|
|
|
Sorry about breaking the flow of the conversation, but I have a question about the Egyptian revolution. Well, not really a question. So I'm talking about this with a friend, and he remains convinced that some group or person paid off the Egyptian military so that they would overthrow Mubarak, but he says that with a complete lack of evidence other than the fact that "they didn't do it sooner." Other than ask him for evidence, and explaining that the military in Egypt is not what we commonly think of military under a dictator, I can't seem to come up with an argument that will convince him. Fake edit: He thinks the army was paid off by the Americans... As if Egyptians could not do this on their own.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:35
|
|
ers how to
|
Times posted:I want to find out if there is a way to contact him and persuade him en masse to not take his own life but instead become a loud voice of opposition from a place of asylum. I do not want to see this obviously empathic person perish. See, you read that as empathetic. I read it as Baghdad bob. Also quit it with the snuff fantasies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:37
|
|
|
Wait, destroying blood? I can't conceive of any reason why someone would stoop to that level of depravity. This is the kind of thing that would appall some of the worst war criminals in history. Who's doing it? The mercenaries?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:39
|
|
|
Sleepless Dreamer posted:Sorry about breaking the flow of the conversation, but I have a question about the Egyptian revolution. Well, not really a question. Your friend is an idiot, what exactly is your question? Why the Americans paid off the military to oust their biggest and most reliable regional ally after years of mutually beneficial cooperation?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:41
|
|
|
Protesters have returned to Tahrir Square in Egypt:quote:In Egypt, where protesters managed to get rid of long-term ruler Hosni Mubarak, hundreds of people are once again in Tahrir Square - this time calling for Prime Minister Ahmed Shafiq's government to quit. quote:A BBC Arabic correspondent in Cairo says the protesters are want the demands of the Egyptian revolution implemented - and they don't think Mr Shafiq is up to the job
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 13:52 |
|
|
Suntory BOSS posted:Your friend is an idiot, what exactly is your question? Why the Americans paid off the military to oust their biggest and most reliable regional ally after years of mutually beneficial cooperation? Actually, how the hell do I convince him that he is wrong.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2011 15:46
|
|