Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Maels posted:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/201122216458913596.html

A summary of the latest Gaddafi speech.
Personally summed up in a sentence: "I rule! Libya gently caress yeah! Go team! Fight the oppression, but watch out for Al-Qaeda, 'Islamists' and the pill-popping youth that are leading the protests against me! If the drugged up anti-me protesters don't back down I'm going to kill them. New constitution Wednesday."

The best part is his "drugged up youth" comments. More literally, he believes there are those that give young people pills and they get all hosed up and protest-y.
This is what Gaddafi actually believes.

You've obviously never heard of LSD.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:19

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# ? May 21, 2024 10:32

Cjones: Jul 4, 2008; Democracia Socrates, MD

The-Mole posted:

You've obviously never heard of LSD.

Sticking up for another dictator in the Middle East?

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:21

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Cjones posted:

Sticking up for another dictator in the Middle East?

Sticking up for LSD.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:27

Necrothatcher: Mar 26, 2005

Nenonen posted:

Although I think presently many Libyans would willingly cleanse the country of all blacks (pro-Muammar or not), so I don't know if that last bit had the intended effect...

What on earth would make you think that? Just because there are black mercenaries doesn't necessarily mean that the protestors are about to support racial genocide. Give them a little more credit, you're painting the Libyans as savages.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:27

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Interesting stuff from AJE:

quote:

Former Gaddafi No.2, Abdul Fatah Younis being interviewed on Al Arabiya. Here's a rough translation of some of his comments, provided by @SultanAlQassemi:

quote:
The Libyan people have suffered too long. We have so much oil, the people could have lived as in a 5 star hotel.

Al Arabiya asks him: What happened?

quote:
There was a crowd of people outside my office, I was with my cousin. A bullet then went next to my right cheek, it hit my cousin who is in a very bad case now.

Gaddafi, that dirty man, wanted to say that I was killed by protesters so that my tribe, the Obeidat, will stand by him.

"You were a Minister of Interior but you only choose to speak now?" Younis: "I spoke to him 2 weeks before the revolution."

quote:
I told Gaddafi, we have too many unemployed youth. I want that dirty person who shot my cousin to face justice .

I am not a two-faced man. I worked with Gaddafi for 42 years, I was shocked at his speech today.

I wish Gaddafi had instead said a prayer for the fallen youth in his last days in office.

Our plan now it to support the youth in Tripoli so that it is liberated like Benghazi was.

I offer my condolences to the fallen martyrs (reads a statement of support for the youth revolution).

I begged Gaddafi not to send planes, I called him. Now of course we don't speak, I have joined the revolution.

Citizens collected weapons & brought them to me, we put them in a massive (airplane) hanger for safekeeping.

I gave orders to my men in Benghazi not to shoot at protesters, not one of my men shot at protesters, those who shot belong to the Security Battalions. I guarantee that none of my men shot at protesters.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:30

Namarrgon: Dec 23, 2008; Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

I'm watching some old white middle-east experts on TV right now who isn't sure yet whether Gaddafi is going to lose this one. He mentioned the kiss Gaddafi got from a soldier at the end of his speech as an example for the military's love for the colonel.

Let me put that in perspective; a specialist with a degree actually thought that kiss was spontaneous and NOT PLANNED AT ALL. Congratulations Gaddafi, your propaganda worked on at least one person.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:31

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Nenonen posted:

I *think* he was trying to explain to his people how everything is so much better in Libya, how they might be getting shot in the street but at least he's not using poisonous gas and tanks like Bill Clinton did at Waco, or how California was purged of all blacks when they rebelled or something.

I can see why you might think that, it is a logical interpretation. But alas, no, he was using them as analogies for his crackdown to explain why it's okay and that unity is more important than preventing deaths.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:33

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Namarrgon posted:

I'm watching some old white middle-east experts on TV right now who isn't sure yet whether Gaddafi is going to lose this one. He mentioned the kiss Gaddafi got from a soldier at the end of his speech as an example for the military's love for the colonel.

Let me put that in perspective; a specialist with a degree actually thought that kiss was spontaneous and NOT PLANNED AT ALL. Congratulations Gaddafi, your propaganda worked on at least one person.

Well that's perfectly valid.

Arabs love dictators.
Qaddafi is a dictator.
Arabs love Qaddafi.

I mean, it all scans perfectly.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:34

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Please get his name so I can make fun of him.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:35

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

I was waiting for an article like this, worth a read. Very complicated dynamic.

http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=3&id=24257 posted:

Cairo, Asharq Al-Awsat � Libyan tribes played an important role in the country's fight against Ottoman, and later Italian, colonialism, with many Libyan tribal members sacrificing their lives in this war. It is believed that there are currently around 140 different tribes and clans in Libya, many of which have influences and members outside of the country, from Tunisia to Egypt to Chad. However Dr. Faraj Abdulaziz Najam, a Libyan specialist in Social Sciences and History, told Asharq Al-Awsat that the Libyan tribes and clans that have genuine and demonstrable influence on the country number no more than 30 [tribes and family clans].

In a country that has lived under the brutal dictatorship of one man for more than forty years, namely Colonel Muammar Gaddafi �of the Gaddafi tribe � the majority of Libyans depend on their tribal connection in order to obtain their rights, and for protection, and even in order to find a job, particularly in the state apparatus. In a study conducted by Dr. Amal al-Obeidi at the University of Garyounis in Benghazi, it was revealed that the two largest and most influential Arab tribes in Libya originated from the Arab Peninsula, and these are the Beni Salim tribe that settled in Cyrenaica, the eastern coastal region of Libya, and the Beni Hilal that settled in western Libya around Tripoli. However other Libyan researchers and expert also revealed that around 15 percent of the Libyan population have no tribal affiliation whatsoever, being descendents of the Berber, Turkish, and other communities.

The degree of political allegiance to the ruling regime in Tripoli varies from one tribe to the next, particularly over the forty years that Gaddafi has been in power. The tribe which has the strongest, and longest, ties to the Gaddafi region is the Magariha tribe, who which has yet to announce their position on the bloody demonstrations that have been taking place across the country for the past week. Former Libyan Prime Minister Abdessalam Jalloud, widely regarded as Gaddafi's right-hand man for much of his reign, is a member of the Magariha tribe. Gaddafi's own tribe, the Gaddafi tribe, had historically not been an important tribe in Libya prior to Colonel Gaddafi's ascent to power, and the Gaddafi tribe was not known for playing a major role in Libya's right against colonialism over the last 200 years.

The leadership of the Magariha tribe acknowledges a debt of gratitude to Gaddafi and his regime for securing the return of one of the tribe's members, Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, from prison in Britain after he was convicted of being behind the Lockerbie bombing. However sources also told Asharq Al-Awsat that this has not prevented a number of youths of the Magariha tribe from participating � with members from other tribes � in the demonstrations and protests against Gaddafi's rule, especially in cities in eastern and southern Libya.

Experts say that the Magariha tribe is in the best position to carry out a coup against the Libyan leader, as many members of this tribe are in sensitive and senior positions of the Libyan government and security services. Whilst the Zawiya tribe is also in a strong position, and has threatened to stop the flow of oil into western Libya unless the authorities stop their deadly crackdown against the Libyan protestors.

Tribal influence in Libya is extremely important, particularly since the 1970s, with tribal affiliation being important with regards to obtaining employment in Libya's General People's Committees, as well as in the country's security apparatus.

The largest and most influential tribe in eastern Libya is the Misurata tribe, which takes its name from the Misurata district in northwestern Libya. The tribe has particularly strong influence in the cities of Benghazi and Darneh.

As for the Cyrenaica region, the most prominent tribe's in this area are the Kargala tribe, the Tawajeer tribe, and the Ramla tribe.

However the Misurata region has, over the past 50 years, become divided between those who belong to the traditional tribes that follow traditional tribal pursuits, and those who have given up this lifestyle and live in the region's urban centers.

Some of the more prominent tribes and families that have given up the Bedouin tribal culture in the Misurata region are: the el-Mahjoub clan, the Zamoura family, the Kawafi tribe, the Dababisa tribe, the Zawaiya tribe, the al-Sawalih tribe, and the al-Jarsha tribe.

As for the Kawar tribe, this is comprised of many sub-tribes of Arab descent, with some analysts saying that this tribe � which takes its name from the Kaouar region � is made up of as many as 15 smaller tribes.

The al-Awaqir tribe is centered in the Barqah region of Cyrenaica, and this tribe is well known for the prominent role that it played in the war against Ottoman and Italian colonialism. The al-Awaqir tribe has also historically played a prominent role in Libyan politics, including during the previous era of the Libyan monarchy as well as during Gaddafi's reign. Al-Awaqir tribal members have held senior positions within Gaddafi's regime, including ministerial positions.

As for Tobruk and the surrounding region, there are a number of prominent tribes in this area, including the Abdiyat tribe, that is made up of around 15 sub-tribes, and which is one of the most powerful tribes in the Cyrenaica region. The Masamir tribe is also an important tribe in this region, and although this tribe is known in Libya for its religious inclinations and piety, members of this tribe played a prominent role in fighting against Italian colonialism, particularly during the first half of the twentieth century.

As for the al-Mujabra tribe, this tribe has a strong presence south-west of Tripoli near the Al Jabal Al Gharbi district. Brigadier General Abu Bark Younis Jaber, Libyan head of the army, is also a prominent member of this tribe.

The Libyan Farjan tribe is centered west of the city Ajdabiya, and members of this tribe can be found in most of Libya's costal cities, including Sirte, Zilten, and Tripoli. The Fizan district, and the area around Tripoli, is the home to the Zawiya tribe, the Warfala tribe, the Magariha tribe, and the Maslata tribe. The majority of people in the city of Tripoli are affiliated to the Masrata tribe, such as the Muntasir clan, the Suni family, the Qadi family, the al-Bashti family, and many other prominent families.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:38

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

11:29pm: Late last year, a Tunisian man, Mohamed Bouazizi, set himself alight in an act of protest against his government. That act sparked the protest movements that have since swept across the Middle East, causing regime change in both Tunisia and Egypt - and now Libya. Bouazizi's family has issued a statement of support for the Libyan people, and his mother has recorded a message for Al Jazeera. You must watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61m567lqL74

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:38

Koirhor: Jan 14, 2008; by Fluffdaddy

Let the UN Hand wringing begin!

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:39

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Brown Moses posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61m567lqL74

I love Muslim grandmothers. :3:

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:44

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Brown Moses posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61m567lqL74

After that 60 Minutes interview, I thought she was going to stay out of the spotlight, because, I mean, it's great her son is a hero and all, but I got the impression she'd rather have an alive son than a dead martyr.

Then again, maybe she realized that it's all bigger than him.

Anyway, good work.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:45

man thats gross: Sep 4, 2004

In other news, Moammar Gaddafi, doing his best impression of Tony Montana, had this to say:

Joo think deez rats gonna provide you with food and electricity, mang? These caka-roaches gonna take away your oil. Joo hold one rifle and joo think jo're brave? Joo ain't nothin', mang!

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:53

Cjones: Jul 4, 2008; Democracia Socrates, MD

man thats gross posted:

In other news, Moammar Gaddafi,doing his best impression of Tony Montana, had this to say:

Joo think deez rats gonna provide you with food and electricity, mang? These caka-roaches gonna take away your oil. Joo hold one rifle and joo think jo're brave? Joo ain't nothin', mang!

Hey manny look at dem pelicangs!

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:54

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

Namarrgon posted:

Because he's very clearly insane.

It's pretty obvious that dictators aren't sane. If they were both him and Mubarak would have gathered up their vast fortune and got the gently caress out at the first serious signs of trouble.

Mubarak and CQ are two different breeds of dictator. I think towards the end Mubarak was just looking for a way to leave government while still saving face.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:55

SauceNinja: Nov 8, 2002; Knock Knock.
Who's There?
You're Fired.

Jut posted:

Mubarak and CQ are two different breeds of dictator. I think towards the end Mubarak was just looking for a way to leave government while still saving face.

I think Mubarak was a better chess player even if he wasn't as bold.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 22:58

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

The Libyan army seems to be trying to secure everything west of Tripoli, probably preparing to take back the east afterwards.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:00

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Jut posted:

Mubarak and CQ are two different breeds of dictator. I think towards the end Mubarak was just looking for a way to leave government while still saving face.

Mubarak's health was pretty bad lately, I think he just wanted to die in office.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:02

Ireland Sucks: May 16, 2004

Jut posted:

Mubarak and CQ are two different breeds of dictator. I think towards the end Mubarak was just looking for a way to leave government while still saving face.

You mean stay in power long enough to squirrel all of his loot away

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:03

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

Slave posted:

You mean stay in power long enough to squirrel all of his loot away

he's not stupid, his loot, or at least a sizable portion of it would already have been squirreled away somewhere safe.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:04

Natalie Portmanteau: Aug 19, 2010; by T. Finn

I wonder how many people start to set themselves on fire, and when they're on fire they're like "Oh poo poo, this actually hurts like hell" and tries to put themselves out.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:04

monkeytennis: Apr 26, 2007; Toilet Rascal

There were protestors on Whitehall today, right opposite Downing Street, here are a couple of phone pics I got as I was walking down there with the family:

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:07

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Natalie Portmanteau posted:

I wonder how many people start to set themselves on fire, and when they're on fire they're like "Oh poo poo, this actually hurts like hell" and tries to put themselves out.

That monk in Vietnam seemed pretty cool with being on fire.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:07

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Mr. Flunchy posted:

What on earth would make you think that? Just because there are black mercenaries doesn't necessarily mean that the protestors are about to support racial genocide. Give them a little more credit, you're painting the Libyans as savages.

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea. If I said 'many Englishmen are alcoholics' it would be a fact-based statement. But it wouldn't mean that alcoholism is universal in England or even exceptionally common.

In a state of anarchy things are bound to get out of hand, like the assault on Lara Logan showed. It's got nothing to do with nationality and everything with there being rotten apples in every bunch. And if the people are already prejudiced against a certain ethnic group, very bad things can happen.

The Brown Menace posted:

That monk in Vietnam seemed pretty cool with being on fire.

The trick is to punch yourself on the nuts just before you light the fire. You will not notice the burning.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:07

whoflungpoop: Sep 9, 2004; With you and the constellations

The-Mole posted:

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=107473

Great resource, thanks! This might have been related to the earlier (and DEBUNKED) rumours from locals in Tripoli that mercenaries and heavy vehicles were being brought in from sea.

Also from Twitter - reports of a large Libyan army gathering in Sabratha. The reason why doesn't seem to be confirmed yet - some sources relate it to protestors burning the security buildings there, but several sources inside Libya are saying that Sabratha is where the army's meeting up to march on Tripoli.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:08

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

Again, there's a big difference between Mubarak (front man and top guy in the regime that had held Egypt, through numerous forms, since 1952), and Qaddafi (is the Libyan regime). Mubarak was dispensable to the old Egyptian authority, Qaddafi is not. Egypt can begin a peaceful transition to a new structure built on top of the old structure, Libya will need to build a new structure from scratch: removing Qaddafi topples everything in the Libyan "government."

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:10

GnatKingCoal: Dec 17, 2008; You, Sir, are UNAmerican!

The Brown Menace posted:

That monk in Vietnam seemed pretty cool with being on fire.

He was a special case. Years of training went into attaining that kind of poise.

If you ever ARE in such a situation and want/need to go through with it (DO NOT SET YOURSELF ON FIRE, STUPID, THIS IS FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY), once your head is fully aflame, you may not feel any pain immediately due to shock, the amount of time it takes for the heat to begin to activate the nerve endings, AND a time-dilation effect prior to the OH poo poo moment of, "I'm on loving FIRE."

THAT is the time to INHALE DEEPLY. Get the fire directly onto the lung tissue. You should go into immediate respiratory arrest, pass out quickly and die with little pain. That's the thinking on immolation.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:13

Xenoid: Dec 9, 2006

Nenonen posted:

The trick is to punch yourself on the nuts just before you light the fire. You will not notice the burning.

I'm pretty sure dousing yourself in fuel will get you high as gently caress so you won't really notice the burning.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:14

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Press conference on AJE from State TV.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:19

Necrothatcher: Mar 26, 2005

Nenonen posted:

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea. If I said 'many Englishmen are alcoholics' it would be a fact-based statement. But it wouldn't mean that alcoholism is universal in England or even exceptionally common.

In a state of anarchy things are bound to get out of hand, like the assault on Lara Logan showed. It's got nothing to do with nationality and everything with there being rotten apples in every bunch. And if the people are already prejudiced against a certain ethnic group, very bad things can happen.

You said

Nenonen posted:

"I think presently many Libyans would willingly cleanse the country of all blacks."

What exactly are you basing this on? On what basis can you possibly say that the majority of Libyans would now support a campaign of racial genocide? You are painting Libyans very clearly as violent bloodthirsty racists - as far as I can see, other than the conjecture you have formulated in your head, there is no basis for this.

edit: unless you're using the word 'cleanse' in a non-genocidal context, in which case it's a slightly less despicable thing to say.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:19

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

This press conference is bullshit, just some idiot talking about all the "reforms" they are going to make.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:22

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Brown Moses posted:

This press conference is bullshit, just some idiot talking about all the "reforms" they are going to make.

* 100% decrease on Qadafis

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:23

Nobler Than Lettuce: Aug 17, 2010; I think I'm a grasshopper. I think I'm a grasshopper. I think I'm a grasssshopppper.

GnatKingCoal posted:

He was a special case. Years of training went into attaining that kind of poise.

And with the help of the rude amount of painkillers he also swallowed he was able to meditate himself out of the fire.

Self immolation would be cool, you'd be on the news, and maybe in 20 years SA Ltd. will use you in a holographic gif thread.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 23:23