Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

quadratic posted:

Random amusing anecdote from Fisk:

I believe that's former justice minister Mustafa Abdel-Jalil speaking right now.

Yeah it's him speaking to the tribes in al-Bayda denouncing Gaddafi.

That anecdote is almost too good to be true.

edit:

Xandu fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 11:51

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# ? May 21, 2024 21:48

rare Magic card l00k: Jan 3, 2011

Al Jazeera English just said Gaddafi forces are in control of Az-Zawiyah, but I might have misheard.

Edit: Oh lord Gaddafi says he's going to address Az-Zawiyah soon.

rare Magic card l00k fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 12:06

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Bit more from Zuara:

quote:

There is another account of police and soldiers deserting their posts in Zuara, 120km (75 miles) west of the Tripoli, this time from a witness who fled the town and spoke to AFP.

Az-Zawiyah is where they were using anti-aircraft weaponary against protesters. I really hope the rebels organise and start capturing and securing more towns and cities.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 12:13

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Couple of bits from the AJE Live Blog:

quote:

The president of Chad tried to send troops into Libya to support Gaddafi, says Al Arabiya.

quote:

A friendly chant rings out round the meeting of tribal elders, held in Al Bayda, home to the former justice minister:

quote:
Oh Al Jazeera, oh Al Jazeera: We swear by Allah, you are not vile!

# ? Feb 24, 2011 12:14

ShortStack: Jan 16, 2006; tinystax

"A monkey could do a better job than this guy!" - unidentified Libyan businessman when asked who is around to run the country after Gaddafi is gone. From NPR just now.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 12:16

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

The Atlantic has posted a collection of pictures from Libya and Bahrain (Libya's collection was posted yesterday and Bahrain's is from a week ago, but I don't recall seeing it posted):

Libya
Bahrain

Default resolution is 1024px, but you can change it to 1280 by clicking the radio button above the first picture, or click the little enlarge icon underneath a picture to view that specific one.

They also have two collections from Egypt from Jan 28 and Feb 10/11 that some people probably haven't seen.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 12:19

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

More rats escaping from the sinking ship:

quote:

One of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's closest aides, Ahmed Gadhaf al-Dam, says he has defected to Cairo in protest of the regime's fierce crackdown on protesters.

Gadhaf al-Dam, a cousin of Gadhafi, says in a statement that the crackdown has seen "grave violations to human rights and human and international laws." He says he left Libya to Egypt "in protest and to show disagreement."

Gadhaf al-Dam, who arrived in the Egyptian capital Cairo several days ago, is a member of the Libyan leader's inner circle, handling Libyan-Egyptian relations.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 12:32

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2gKQ9TxS7A

# ? Feb 24, 2011 12:34

Mr.Showtime: Oct 22, 2006; I'm not going to say that

Brown Moses posted:

Couple of bits from the AJE Live Blog:

[/quote]

I know people like to claim that Chad and Libya don't get along very well, but Qadaffi has been a big supporter of Deby (he backed him during the coup that brought Deby to power) and Qadaffi was (obiously) pretty instrumental in the Tripoli agreement.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 12:46

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Al-J reporting that Zawiya is under control of anti-Qaddafi forces despite attacks, also aired was an announcement that 90% of all police generals throwing their weight behind the revolution.

Also, in the town of Azzaqiyah, Qaddafi's forces attacked protestors hiding in a mosque and blasting the minaret with anti-aircraft missiles and automatic weapons.

Qaddafi is a loving Kafir.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:12

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Miftah Mohamed, a caller from Misurata, tells Al Jazeera "the revolutionary forces have driven Gaddafi's forces from Misurata".

Misurata was attacked by Gaddafi's forces earlier, the last I heard they had managed to capture the airport, and the protesters had counter attacked, so I don't know if they caller was including the airport in that.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:16

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Aren't Zawiya and Az-Zaqiyah the same place? And wasn't Gaddafi planning to give a speech there?

[edit]There's also reports on Twitter of army units in Zawiya giving weapons to protesters.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:19

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Libyan gov�t: Unauthorized journalists are considered to be al-Qaeda collaborators
Stay classy, Gaddafi.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:24

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Brown Moses posted:

Aren't Zawiya and Az-Zaqiyah the same place? And wasn't Gaddafi planning to give a speech there?

I thinks he's going to address the speech to Zawiyah, not actually give the speech there.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:24

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

That's a shame, I had an image of his convey suddenly turning around and heading back to Tripoli. I expect his speech to be "the bombing will start in 5 minutes."

More on Misurata:

quote:

Another caller from Misurata tells Al Jazeera that up to 1,000 members of Gaddafi forces - the "Hamza Brigade" - mounted an attack on protesters near the city's airport and were repelled, but later launched an attack on the centre of the city, and fighting continues. He says anti-Gaddafi protesters are holding their ground.

[edit]There's more stuff on Twitter about mercenaries gathering up the bodies of killed protesters in Tripoli, filling trucks up and driving them away, so they can invite the media in and show them nothing is wrong.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:25

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Pan-Arab broadcaster al-Arabiya reports that the southern Libyan town of al-Kufra has fallen to protesters, according to BBC Monitoring. Al-Kufra is an isolated oasis town in the far south-east of Libya.

The entire Al-Kufra district, which covers 483,510 km�, only has 50,000 people living their, but it does have it's own airport, which could be significant.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:44

rare Magic card l00k: Jan 3, 2011

One less place mercenaries could easily land can't hurt, assuming nobody else overseas intervenes.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:47

schadenfraud: Nov 19, 2010

I heard again from my friend in Libya, pretty much confirming the female mercenaries stories and 'they just shoot at anyone.'

quote:

We went out to gather in the city centre as usual with cleaning for the night before mess and organising to help people with food blood donations and everything else. Hanging our real Independence flag everything seemed calm people went to pray Maghreb( sun set prayer) at the same time Gheddafi was speaking.

What happened next is people of whom are Gheddafi security men and rest of them got paid went out right after Gheddafis speech removing the barricades we already set to block the streets and to protect our city� and they were chanting for Gheddafi. Some of us went their way to return everything in it�s place they run away leaving their cars which wasn�t attack or burned but it was parked in the same roads and used as barricades. However, After an hour or so a bloody militia which is 100% Libyans (not African mercenaries like the last time) and consists of many female fighters having military cars with machine guns plugged came shooting at us we resisted with stones we burned some tyres to block them but that never worked and we had to run most of us made it a live in some places nearby it was dark they can�t see us they were shooting everywhere to see where were we hiding.

But a poor guy who is well known he has mental disorder (I can�t tel but he�s not mentally well) he has been always smiling to ppl he was there he was happy but they got him they fired at him 9 times!! 3 females killed him and danced on his body chanted for Gheddafi.

We were 10 we couldn�t handle it we were crying and we know if we went out we will get killed we don�t have nothing to defend with �we felt like pussies we watched a crime against a poor guy which didn�t understand the situation he can�t think, he thought they would never shot at him. He didn�t leave his place he was the only man stayed at his place and died. They (gheddafi militia) burned down our flags threw tear gas everywhere we had to back off we decided to go home but some kept fighting with them.

After that we have heard today that he wasn�t the only victim a whole family was in their car were killed by the same militia last night. I�m afraid some of our guys have already gave up we can�t win. We are all ready to die but we don�t want to die for nothing.

http://yfrog.com/gz1huwj

Why yes this message is written in blood. It reads 'Yahya the Martyr' - the name of the guy shot and killed in the street.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:51

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Gaddafi's crazy son has got Tripoli cleaned up, and now he wants to show journalists that everything is normal:

quote:

In an apparently contradictory statement from Col Gaddafi's son, Saif, he says all journalists are welcome. He challenged them to find evidence of violence against protesters: "Tomorrow, we will tell the world the doors are open for all journalists. They are coming from everywhere in the world. They and diplomats can fly anywhere and then they can show us where the bombing is that they have been talking about… It is a small number of people who died in Libya."

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:54

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

A good story about the situation in Benghazi and other rebel held areas:

quote:

Opposition activists are increasing their hold on Muammar Gaddafi's ailing regime, by shutting down oil exports and mobilising rebel groups in the west of the country as the revolution rapidly spreads.

By late this morning, Gaddafi's hold on power appeared confined to parts of Tripoli and perhaps several regions in the centre of the country. Towns to the west of the capital have fallen and all of eastern Libya is now firmly in opposition hands.

In the sacked second city of Benghazi, basic order is returning to the streets after days of fierce fighting that saw the military defect en masse and virtually all government buildings razed and looted.

There are long lines outside closed banks this morning, as citizens attempt to resume their lives. Cars have returned to city streets but almost all shops remain closed and the internet is blocked.

Bengahzi is now being run by a makeshift organising committee of judges, lawyers and other professionals who have dispatched youths to the streets to coordinate traffic at intersections and reinstall basic order.

"We started just as lawyers looking for our rights and now we are revolutionaries," said one high court lawyer, Amal Bagaigis, "and we don't know how to manage. We want to have our own face. For 42 years we lived with this kind of barbarianism. We now want to live by ourselves."

However the revolution is clearly spreading with or without them. The town of Misratah, around half way between Benghazi and Tripoli, was reported to have fallen this morning after days of violence. A resident, Abdul Basit Imzivig, told the Guardian that regime forces had fled overnight and the city was now in opposition hands.

All southern oil fields are now also in rebel control. Moustafa Raba'a, a mechanical engineer with the Sirte oil company, said pressure had been put on field and refinery managers to stop work and protect all foreign nationals working with them.

"The order was put out to send a message to Gaddafi to stop the slaying of our people inn Benghazi," he said. "We made a decision to deny him the privilege of exporting oil and gas to Europe."

He said the blockade had prevented 80,000 barrels per day from being exported from the Dregga field alone.

Also from the BBC:

quote:

A security service spokesman goes on Libyan TV to offer an amnesty to protesters who lay down their arms: "The General Libyan People's Committee calls on people who have any weapons which they received illegally to surrender them. He who submits his weapon and shows remorse will be exempt from legal prosecution. The committee calls on citizens to help them by informing them about those who misled young people, or supplied them with money, equipment or intoxicating substances and hallucinatory pills. A monetary reward will be given to anyone who reports them or provides any information which will help us arrest them."

"Please give us your only way of defending yourself from our brutal regime."

# ? Feb 24, 2011 13:57

Finlander: Feb 21, 2011

Brown Moses posted:

Gaddafi's crazy son has got Tripoli cleaned up, and now he wants to show journalists that everything is normal:

I'm not sure what he means to accomplish by this. Everyone already knows the brutality that's been going on, and trying to hide it now is just an act of extreme desperation.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:10

rare Magic card l00k: Jan 3, 2011

I think you gave yourself the reasoning.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:11

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Gaddifi and family are used to communicating to the world through strictly controlled channels, they don't understand that one of their atrocities can be seen across the world in minutes thanks to modern communication. Speaking of which, from Twitter:
Secretary General of People's Committee on LibyanTV is claiming that #AlJazeera is a zionist project.

Secretary General of People's Committee on LibyanTV: The world is ignorant about what is happening in Libya

Secretary General of People's Committee on LibyanTV: It is well known that the Qaeda has a project to control #Libya from the East.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:12

breaklaw: May 12, 2008

If they really have armed forces units on their side, they need to try and get up in that State TV control room. That must be pretty hard to do though. I know they never got that far in Egypt.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:21

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Problem is, it's in Tripoli, which is heavily occupied by pro-Gaddafi mercenaries and armed forces, so by the time they reached it they would have to have killed everyone defending Gaddafi anyway.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:27

Furious Mittens: Oct 14, 2005; Lipstick Apathy

AP radio news had a report this morning about Gadaffi using his Air Force to attack a Mosque where protesters were holding out (I believe this was in Az-Zaqiyah).

Also, check this report out: http://www.examiner.com/airlines-airport-in-national/libyan-pilots-eject-rather-than-bomb-civilians

Pilots just bailing out and letting their planes crash rather than bomb protesters.

NATO was talking about declaring Libya a No-Fly Zone and enforcing it against the Libyan Air Force that were being used to bomb the protesters. NATO then backed off that plan this morning:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/24/AR2011022402348.html

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:33

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Round up from the Guardian:

quote:

Here is a lunchtime summary from Mark Tran:

� Libya: Rebels are increasing their hold on Muammar Gaddafi's ailing regime, by shutting down oil exports and mobilising rebel groups in the west of the country as the revolution rapidly spreads. Gaddafi's hold on power appears confined to parts of Tripoli and perhaps several regions in the centre of the country. Towns to the west of the capital have fallen or are being fought over. Gun battles are taking place between forces loyal to Gaddafi and his opponents in the town of Az-Zawiyah, 30 miles west of Tripoli, according to witnesses. Order is returning to the sacked second city of Benghazi after days of fierce fighting that saw the military defect en masse and virtually all government buildings razed and looted. Gaddafi was expected to make a statement at some point soon.

The British Foreign Office says three flights have either already left or are about to leave Tripoli. HMS Cumberland, which can take several hundred people, is approaching Benghazi and preparing to dock. The culture secretary, Jeremy Hunt, says SAS troops "are now ready to spring into action" to help evacuate 170 British oil workers in remote desert camps, which have been described as perilous.

Nato says it will not intervene in Libya. Its secretary-general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, says the alliance has received no such requests and that in any case any intervention must be based on a UN mandate. Rasmussen says the turmoil in Libya does not threaten any Nato members, but the conflict could spark a mass refugee crisis.

� Yemen: Protests are occurring in all the major cities: Sana'a, Aden and Hodeidah, says one journalist. Tomorrow, a million people are expected from around the country to gather in Tahrir Square in Sana'a to show their support for the president, Ali Abdullah Saleh. There are fears that government supporters gathering in the centre of the city will clash with the anti-government protesters outside Sana'a University in the west.

� Oil prices climbed to their highest level in 30 months in London. Brent crude hit $119 a barrel for the first time since August 2008, while benchmark crude for April delivery on the New York mercantile exchange was up nearly $4 at $101.67.

This thread title is a bit out of date, how about Middle-East in Revolt:Keeping Up With The Gaddafis?

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:39

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Updated map of Gaddifi's failings as a leader:

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:42

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Gaddafi is apparently doing to be talking to only West Libyans in his upcoming address, guess he's given up on the East. Bet he says the East is under the control of Al Qaeda.

[edit] I was just reading that Libya apparently still has a stockpile of mustard gas, hopefully that won't be part of Gaddafi's exit plan.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 14:46

Kenning: Jan 11, 2009; I really want to post goatse. Instead I only have these🍄.

Brown Moses you're the man.

schadenfraud posted:

I heard again from my friend in Libya, pretty much confirming the female mercenaries stories and 'they just shoot at anyone.'

http://yfrog.com/gz1huwj

Why yes this message is written in blood. It reads 'Yahya the Martyr' - the name of the guy shot and killed in the street.

Hey man, I hope your friend and his family stay safe. Thanks for bringing us this perspective, والله معهم.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:06

Ashmole: Oct 5, 2008; _{This wish was granted by Former DILF}

Brown Moses posted:

[edit] I was just reading that Libya apparently still has a stockpile of mustard gas, hopefully that won't be part of Gaddafi's exit plan.

I was just thinking about how long it was going to take him until he started using gas and other deplorable types of weapons.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:08

Furious Mittens: Oct 14, 2005; Lipstick Apathy

Brown Moses posted:

Gaddafi is apparently doing to be talking to only West Libyans in his upcoming address, guess he's given up on the East. Bet he says the East is under the control of Al Qaeda.

[edit] I was just reading that Libya apparently still has a stockpile of mustard gas, hopefully that won't be part of Gaddafi's exit plan.

I would think that using Mustard Gas would just be an invitation for the UN to be forced to take action, whatever that may be (strongly worded letter, military action, etc.). In a world that is far more aware of the threat of WMD's, that is something that would almost certainly cause people to make notice.

AJ-E was showing protesters that had taken entire military stockpiles, including tanks and heavy artillery, mostly in the East of Libya. That's pretty impressive and could certainly even the odds.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:09

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Al Jazeera English's Cal Perry tweets: "During presser at #Libya embassy: man with handi-cam from govt. tapes all faces of press. Then amb. invites #Malta press to go to Tripoli!"

Not exactly reassuring to have your faces filmed, and then be invited to what has been reported to be a slaughter house.

I guess they've had a few days to clean up Tripoli so they can give the international news media a tour. It's almost comic that they believe that anyone would fall for such an obvious ploy.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:10

Banano: Jan 10, 2005; Soiled Meat

Gadaffi back on again. He's banging on about hallucinogenic milk again. :catdrugs:

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:15

Finlander: Feb 21, 2011

Brown Moses posted:

Updated map of Gaddifi's failings as a leader:

Just a quick question, here:
When it says "liberated", what does that mean, in practice?

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:16

rare Magic card l00k: Jan 3, 2011

I think it means under control of protesters.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:17

Finlander: Feb 21, 2011

Great White Hope posted:

I think it means under control of protesters.

So, like, all the Gaddafi-backed forces have been run out of town, and the protesters are running things?
Gotcha.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:19

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Gaddafi is talking at long last. He starts off in bizarre fashion, accusing protesters of drinking pills that make them commit "animal acts". He says the protesters have been brainwashed by Osama bin Laden, whose people have been giving protesters these pills.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:20

drunkill: Sep 25, 2007; me @ ur posting; Fallen Rib

"A real man doens't use arms against innocent people" - Gaddafi.

Edit: VVV Yeah, static image, the BBC are now doing split scren of that static image and then showing video of riots and protests and such.

drunkill fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Feb 24, 2011

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:20

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# ? May 21, 2024 21:48

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

There are no images of Gaddafi, just his disembodied voice on Al-Jazeera, adding to the surreal nature of the occasion. While his regime crumbles, he's talking about kids taking pills. It really is like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

# ? Feb 24, 2011 15:22

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