Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Pine Cone Jones: Dec 6, 2009; You throw me the acorn, I throw you the whip!

Narmi posted:

Just out of curiosity, has the Patriot Act been repealed yet? If not, is there any plan as to how long it'll stay around?

I...I don't understand. It's always been around, I hope you aren't having some unpleasant thoughts brother. It's not good, perhaps we can talk to a party committee about these thoughts and get you help.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 05:31

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# ? May 21, 2024 19:34

Yaos: Feb 22, 2003; She is a cat of significant gravy.

Narmi posted:

How is the Patriot Act in the Bill of Rights? I thought it could be repealed, or declared unconstitutional. It should expire sometime this year (it was set to expire in 2 days, though it almost got enough votes for a longer extension).

Sorry, I meant the new Bill of Rights. You're not allowed to see it because the old Bill of Rights does not give you the right to see what your rights are in the new Bill of Rights.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 05:43

3 Tablets Daily: Jun 7, 2006; by Cyrano4747

Pine Cone Jones posted:

I...I don't understand. It's always been around, I hope you aren't having some unpleasant thoughts brother. It's not good, perhaps we can talk to a party committee about these thoughts and get you help.

2 + 2 = 5

# ? Feb 27, 2011 05:47

Cjones: Jul 4, 2008; Democracia Socrates, MD

Xandu posted:

He's being sarcastic because the patriot act is never going to be repealed.

The USA PATRIOT Act is biblically mandated and if you don't believe that then you can go to hell.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 05:57

Chade Johnson: Oct 12, 2009; by Ozmaugh

Wait, did the Tunisian military send an "apology" note as well as the Egyptians, or did imagine that?

# ? Feb 27, 2011 05:58

MrQwerty: Apr 15, 2003; LOVE IS BEAUTIFUL (づ￣ �￣)づ♥(�∀�●)

Cjones posted:

The USA PATRIOT Act is biblically mandated and if you don't believe that then you can go to hell.

In the years before the USAPATRIOT Act, back in prehistory, America was under attack from violent Arab Muslims daily. We lost a billion people before the USAPATRIOT Act was passed, and saved the world from certain destruction at the hands of the browns.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 06:00

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

North Korea is now threatening to shoot at South Korea unless the South ceases its provocations (ie. dropping leaflets about the Middle East revolutions).

# ? Feb 27, 2011 06:32

Omnicarus: Jan 16, 2006

Cjones posted:

The USA PATRIOT Act is biblically mandated and if you don't believe that then you can go to hell.

That's going at little far, imo. I think the earliest recorded use was when it was invoked to rally minutemen and patriots against the British. In fact it's name comes from the idea that patriots acted in ways that defended their country against the British invaders. Sam Adams, an orphan who taught himself to read, write, and do business, even put down his brewer's pale for some time and took up the musket, eventually becoming a Brigadier general and likely capable of being a serious opponent to Washington. Instead he return to his brewery, satisfied that he had done his nation proud and not wanting to use his duty as a chance to seize power.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 06:46

Apology: Nov 12, 2005; by Y Kant Ozma Post

In Kashmir they are holding a hunger strike:

quote:

Indian-controlled Kashmir separatist leader stages hunger strike against arrests
12:07, February 27, 2011

The pro-independent separatist leader of India-controlled Kashmir Mohammed Yasin Malik Saturday staged a day-long hunger strike to protest the arrests of youth including students by police.

He was also expressing solidarity with the Kashmiri detainees languishing in various Indian jails.

Malik along with his party activists, locals and families of detainees sat on a hunger strike since morning in Maisuma locality close to city centre Lal Chowk (red square) in Srinagar, the region's summer capital.

The Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) activists had erected a makeshift tent on the road outside the party office to stage the hunger protest. Scores of people including some separatist leaders thronged the venue. "Apart from our party chairman, families of slain youth, family members of detained people are joining us. Even people from all walks of life are participating in this protest to show solidarity with the cause," said a JKLF spokesman.

Police in Indian-controlled Kashmir arrested hundreds of youth including separatists following last year's massive protests. The arrests are part of the continuing crackdown to stop further protests. Though some have been released, still many are undergoing detention.

Malik told media that the hunger-strike is aimed at highlighting the human rights violations in the region.

"It is a peaceful way to let the world know how people in Kashmir are suffering at the hands of Indian troops," he said

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90851/7301750.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I'm not wild about hunger strikes. They're only effective if the opposition gives a poo poo if you starve to death. However, they have a right to protest in whatever way they see fit, so more power to 'em.

Not about the revolutions, but did anyone else hear about this?

quote:

Perhaps taking a cue from Wisconsin, the mayor of Providence, R.I., took an interesting approach to solving the city�s budget problems: He laid off every teacher in the city. More accurately, the school board ordered the pink slips.
The maneuver will allow the city to rehire any canned teacher it chooses without consideration to seniority. That�s a double-edged sword. In a perfect world teachers would be retained based on merit. In an imperfect world teachers may be retained based upon pay scale. With luck, Providence resides in the perfect part of the world.

It�s sad that our education system is at ground zero of the state and local budget battles. The likely outcome will be to further break a broken system. At some point you would hope that school boards start focusing their attention on the bloated and incompetent ranks of administration as a means to streamline budgets without adversely affecting classrooms. But that would require that everyone put politics and petty biases aside.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/business/910546-192/owner-of-downtown-nashua-jewelry-store-giving.html

:drat:

That's low. Any delusions that any of y'all had about working hard and being a good employee leading to success, you can forget about them now. It's a wonder that anyone's willing to be a schoolteacher any more.

Mauritania is protesting too:

quote:

2. The climate. Around 2,000 people turned out in the main square in Nouakchott. In the early hours it is said there were only 200 with numbers swelling steadily as they day went on especially following prayers. The organizers range from small groups of leftist and Islamist youth to larger groups linked to student groups and opposition parties like the RFD, UFP and Tawassoul. Social media has not been the key organizing tool: word of mouth and mass texts have driven turn out more than anything else. Slacktivists sometimes more vocal on Facebook actually made their way outside, shouting in the streets rather than cyberspace. (A large number of Facebook groups supporting the protests have proliferated in the last two weeks.) Many youth activists have been inspired to make their demands this week as a result of what they watched happen in Tunisia and Egypt and Libya: others brought down dictatorships far stronger than their own government brought down in weeks or days thus begging the inevitable question �why not here?� Asked what they want, many simply answer �cheaper food and water.� Some have drawn inspiration from the Fassala events, which have been a popular subject of discussion on webforums and among youth who identify with the local population and see the government�s heavy-handed response as representative of its overall disposition, if not the overall Arab condition. But their slogans include such things as �the people want the downfall of the regime! No to slavery! No to high food prices!� (الشعب يريد إسقاط النظام، لا للعبودية، لا لارتفاع الاسعار) and condemnations of �one man rule� (حكم الفرد ). Opposition party leaders have issued statements of support while urging the demonstrators to be ware and the regime not to beat them, others asking the army to protect the demonstrators. Reports of government provocateurs attempting to move the protestors from the square in the direction of the presidential palace indicate government efforts to exploit the protest, although for most of the day the demonstrators were unmolested by the police and security forces. As the day went on and demonstrators attempted to pitch tents to stage a sit-in the square, they were dispersed by police who told them to get permits for their attempted sit-in, according to some reports by force. The protesters have nevertheless vowed to maintain a sit in in the square. Protests took place in Nouakchott, Zouerate, Boutilimit, Nouadhibou and several big towns over the course of the day. If protests spread to towns like Kiffa (in Assaba), al-�Ayoune (in Hodh al-Gharbi), which have concentrations of large and important tribes, the situation could grow more politically threatening to the regime. The inclusion of black Mauritanians is an important factor: the black communities (who are most populous in the southern region near the Senegal River) have been well represented in the current government more than at most times in the past and if black youth turn out in anti-regime protests it would add significant momentum.

http://themoornextdoor.wordpress.com/2011/02/26/thoughts-re-mauritanias-protests/

What do we want? CHEAPER FOOD AND WATER!!! When do we want it? BEFORE WE DIE OF THIRST AND STARVATION!!!

How would you feel if you were Libyan and fled the regime there, only to wind up in Gaza? You'd probably feel like this:

quote:

Nothing describes this situation better than this vulgar variant of an Arabic proverb:

The unlucky one remains unlucky even if they hang a lantern from the head of his penis.

المنحوس منحوس ولو علقوا على راس أيره فانوس

And here is a part of their story:

quote:

In Palestine, they hope for Qaddafi's fall, so that they can return to Libya, after having been forced by Qaddafi to cut ties with their homeland. Mohammed Al Madhoun reports from Gaza.

Reporter:
This man, in the Gaza Strip, is a descendant of the Libyan "Ferjaan" tribe. Not only is it an unusual situation, but it is compounded by the fact that he is merely one among two thousand Libyans living in the Strip.

We went to his home, where we found members of several Libyan families following the events in their homeland and attempting to communicate via telephone with their relatives (in Libya).

The story of these Libyans goes back to the days of their forefathers who arrived in Palestine in order to fight colonialism. Having settled in Palestine, they were eventually deprived, by Qaddafi's mercurial moods, from the regaining of their citizenship.

They conserve to this day, documents from their fathers proving their Libyanness, should they one day return to their homeland.

Whole thing here:

http://www.nizosblog.com/2011/02/gazas-libyans-hang-lanterns-from.html

Please note: in the comments there are some people questioning the veracity of this story.

And something else that just smells wrong:

quote:

Editorial Note

The following text is a statement by Mathaba.

The Centre for Research on Globalization's Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya, who was hosted by Al Jazeera to talk about Libya, also has received reports from inside Libya that are conflicting with some of Al Jazeera's reporting about the situation in Libya.

See the following article: Libya: Is Washington Pushing for Civil War to Justify a US-NATO Military Intervention?

As an additional note, the Arabian Gulf is a reference to the Persian Gulf.

Jazeera Disinformation: Truth About Libya's Ambassador to Bangladesh A. H. Elimam

Late on Monday, Ahmed Attia Hamed Elimam, Libya's ambassador to Bangladesh, resigned his position as an ambassador for Libya's foreign ministry.
Al Jazeera, based in Qatar a U.S. client state in the Arabian Gulf, and which never criticises the Qatari regime nor it's subservience as a U.S. outpost for the ArabianGulf region, said this was in protest against the killing of his family members by government soldiers. This is not true, and is part of a widespread campaign of disinformation by Jazeera and other MSM networks which the Gaddafi family have themselves failed to address.

Elimam, who is also a Mathaba Correspondent, resigned because no Libyan can stand the ongoing massacre that is taking place in his country. He has told us that his immediate family are all well, by the Grace of Allah, and that Libyans are all one big family. This implies naturally that every death of a Libyan is the death of a family member.

Mathaba can also reveal that Bangladesh media are circulating rumours and falsehood about Elimam within Bangladesh. For example, Elimam is not receiving support an security from any Bangladeshi ministry. He is due to leave the country shortly. He is well and safe as per the law for ex-ambassadors which also requires their safety after resignation.

Elimam is in direct communication with Mathaba News Agency and we reiterate he is safe and well. Due to a change of phone numbers for Mathaba editor, contact had been lost for a period of time and is now re-established.

Elimam let's it be known that no other media source other than the Mathaba News Agency is to be trusted for any information about him.

Mathaba challenges Al-Jazeera to show professionalism and print a correction, quoting Mathaba as source. This type of disinformation is the reason Jazeera has been banned from having any correspondents in Libya. We do agree with Jazeera however, that it is hypocrisy of the Libyan government to promise to allow CNN, BBC and other MSM news reporters into the country "after cleaning up" and to single out Jazeera. Jazeera in our opinion is no different from the BBC, both are beholden to their respective governments and intelligence.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23399&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"My family's not dead, it's Al Jazeera lies to hide the subservience of Qatar to American interests!" Is the guy using an error on the press' part in order to take a cheap potshot at Al Jazeera? Is he a Gaddahfi loyalist? I just don't know what the hell to think about this one :psyduck:

Let's all play Kick the Reporter in the Head, it's more fun that soccer:

quote:

Yemen: Security Forces, Gangs Attack Reporters
At Least 31 Journalists Beaten, Harassed During Demonstrations

FEBRUARY 26, 2011

Muhi al-Din Jarma, a reporter for London-based Al-Quds and Yemeni newspapers, suffered head injuries and internal bleeding when a group of men attacked him during clashes while a plainclothes policeman stood by.
� 2011 Marwan Al-Ghanadi

Beating up journalists is a blatant attempt by the authorities to prevent the Yemeni people and the world from witnessing a critical moment in Yemen. Yemeni authorities should halt these attacks and promptly bring assailants, including security officials, to justice.

Sarah Leah Whitson, director of the Middle East and North Africa division at Human Rights Watch
(Sanaa) - State security forces have participated in or stood by during brutal attacks on journalists covering the February 2011 demonstrations against Yemen's president, Human Rights Watch said today. Security forces or armed supporters of the president have beaten or harassed at least 31 international and Yemeni journalists in an effort to quash reporting on the protests.

"Beating up journalists is a blatant attempt by the authorities to prevent the Yemeni people and the world from witnessing a critical moment in Yemen," said Sarah Leah Whitson, director of the Middle East and North Africa division at Human Rights Watch. "Yemeni authorities should halt these attacks and promptly bring assailants, including security officials, to justice."

Human Rights Watch interviewed five journalists who were attacked by security forces or as security officials watched. Human Rights Watch also obtained information on 20 incidents of attacks, detention, or harassment of journalists from the Yemeni Journalists Syndicate, and additional cases from the Committee to Protect Journalists and Reporters Without Borders.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/26/yemen-security-forces-gangs-attack-reporters

It was a big day in Yemen today, too:

quote:

Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators massed in Yemeni cities, holding their largest demonstrations against President Ali Abdullah Saleh since the wave of anti-authoritarian uprising began sweeping across North Africa and the Middle East.

The number of protesters in the capital Sana's Liberation Square increases by the day. They also become more organized in terms of managing the protesters and their tents.

The rally here became part of the protestors' life; you can find them conducting their daily life, even celebrating the wedding of one of the protestors.

The protestors have organized themselves and formed different medical, security and food committees to work on organizing the rally.

Large demonstrations also took place across Yemen's southern port city of Aden, where at least five more people were fatally shot amid reports of snipers being used against protesters. That brought to at least seven the number killed in the clashes with security forces in Aden.

In the capital, Sana, tens of thousands of demonstrators held their largest protest since the uprising began, swelling what started as marches by a few dozen students and activists only a few weeks ago.

Protestors say that they are not affiliated with any party and that they came to this place by their free well.

The protest organizers say that demonstrations will continue for another month. If the president had not stepped down, they said they would move to a month-long, nationwide strike, despite the fractured nature of Yemeni society.

Yemen has witnessed days of anti-government protests that have swept across the country after the revolution in Egypt and Tunisia. Protestors say they are determined to stay at this square. They say they are calling for an end to Saleh's 32-year rule.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/167254.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Can't stop the signal, Saleh.

And news about my favorite revolution in Ivory Coast:

quote:

Ivorian rebels seize town
Rebels controlling northern Ivory Coast have seized a town in government territory and said on Friday they were still advancing, raising the prospects of a return to open war.
Reuters
Published: 2011/02/26 03:16:17 PM
Rebels controlling northern Ivory Coast have seized a town in government territory and said on Friday they were still advancing, raising the prospects of a return to open war.

Loyalists of Laurent Gbagbo, clinging to power after an election most of the world says he lost, confirmed the fall of Zouan-Hounien in an overnight attack and said they would fight to take it back.

"We're in the process of re-organizing ourselves," Yao Yao, head of operations of the pro-Gbagbo Front for the Liberation of the Greater West militia told Reuters by phone from the region.

The small, remote town lies in western Ivory Coast near the forested border with Liberia and is not on a key axis, but the fighting there marks a major escalation.

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon warned that clashes this week in the main city, Abidjan, and in the west have taken the world's top cocoa grower closer to the brink of a new civil war.

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=135637

Every day that man Gbagbo stays it gets worse:

quote:

ABIDJAN (AFP) - Fresh clashes erupted on Saturday in Ivory Coast's main city Abidjan a day after UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon warned the crisis-hit nation was on the brink of civil war.

Heavy-weapon gunfire broke out in the commercial capital Abidjan where forces loyal to rival claimants for the presidency have been fighting, witnesses said.

The gunfire came from the northern Abobo area that is a stronghold of Alassane Ouattara, internationally recognised to have won the November 28 election although incumbent Laurent Gbagbo refuses to step down.

It follows deadly clashes earlier this week in the area, from where Gbagbo's camp says "rebels" allied with Ouattara are operating, a charge that has been denied.

Witnesses said the gunfire resumed in the early afternoon after the shooting stopped overnight Friday, although residents continued to flee Saturday.

"The neighbourhood is empty," one resident told AFP, adding that families were leaving for other districts of Abidjan.

"People think the neighbourhood will be bombed," said another resident who had decided to stay.

Mini-buses were able to enter the area and were "stormed" by mothers and their children, a young woman said who had fled to the western Yopougon district to stay with her family.

"This morning I saw bodies, apparently civilians, that nobody has recovered," a driver told AFP but was unable to say when the people were killed.

No toll has been given for the latest flare-up.

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/8913703/more-heavy-weapon-fire-in-i-coasts-abidjan/

I like the idea of the women storming the buses in order to get their children out of harm's way. Now that's a good mother :unsmith:

And hidden among the Ivory Coast news, there's this:

quote:

In a recent interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! Professor Emeritus, Noam Chomsky debunked such propaganda is his comments on one of the White House declarations calling for an orderly transition in Egypt:

�Well, Obama very carefully didn't say anything. Mubarak would agree that there should be an orderly transition, but to what? A new cabinet, some minor rearrangement of the constitutional order�it's empty. So he's doing what U.S. leaders regularly do. As I said, there is a playbook: whenever a favored dictator is in trouble, try to sustain him, hold on; if at some point it becomes impossible, switch sides."

http://www.modernghana.com/news/318162/1/cote-divoire-a-chocolate-revolution-or-war-for-oil.html

So Noam Chomsky knows about the playbook, and it's not just an Arab Dictator Playbook, but the US uses it too :tinfoil:

# ? Feb 27, 2011 07:29

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

For those that aren't aware, when Mauritania says "no to slavery," they mean it in a literal sense. Mauritania has the widest prevalence of modern slavery anywhere, IIRC.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 07:49

Pine Cone Jones: Dec 6, 2009; You throw me the acorn, I throw you the whip!

Apology posted:

So Noam Chomsky knows about the playbook, and it's not just an Arab Dictator Playbook, but the US uses it too

Welcome to the machine.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 07:55

Soviet Commubot: Oct 22, 2008

Apology posted:

http://themoornextdoor.wordpress.com/2011/02/26/thoughts-re-mauritanias-protests/

The Moor Next Door is a loving awesome name for a blog.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 08:05

Yaos: Feb 22, 2003; She is a cat of significant gravy.

Here's a handy list of South American countries and their government's views on the current revolution in India.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/americas/2011/02/25/latin-americas-sudden-silence-gaddafi

I would say that once it's all settled Libya and Nicaragua might not be very friendly.

quote:

Nicaragua�s President Daniel Ortega this week has publicly supported Gaddafi more than almost any other head of state on the planet, saying the north African leader is �waging a great battle� for his country. Ortega called Tripoli to offer support. And he has vowed to stand by Gaddafi until the end, saying, �difficult moments put loyalty to the test.� And former Cuban President Fidel Castro, in a newspaper column, also urged caution before rushing to judgment against Gaddafi and suggested the United States was about to invade Libya.

Yaos fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Feb 27, 2011

# ? Feb 27, 2011 08:19

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Soviet Commubot posted:

The Moor Next Door is a loving awesome name for a blog.

He's also very knowledgable about North Africa.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 08:22

Bobfromsales: Apr 2, 2010

Apology posted:

I'm not wild about hunger strikes. They're only effective if the opposition gives a poo poo if you starve to death. However, they have a right to protest in whatever way they see fit, so more power to 'em.

I wouldn't have that someone setting themself on fire would've made much of a difference, but.. welp.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 08:25

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Oh snap

quote:

KIEV, Ukraine�Embattled Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is set to be deserted by another close ally after his Ukrainian nurse said she was heading home.

Galyna Kolotnytska, described in a diplomatic cable published by Wikileaks as a "voluptuous blond" who "travel[s] everywhere" with Col. Gadhafi, called her family in Kiev on Friday to say she intends to return to Ukraine, her daughter told daily Segodnya.

"Mom got in touch yesterday. She said she was now in Tripoli," Tetyana Kolotnytska said. "She spoke in a calm voice, asked us not to worry and said she'd soon be home."

According to the cable from September 2009, contacts in Tripoli told U.S. diplomats that Col. Gadhafi "relies heavily" on Ms. Kolotnytska, then 38, as "she alone 'knows his routine.'"

The cable also reported claims from unnamed sources that the eccentric Libyan leader and the nurse, part of a retinue of four Ukrainians, "have a romantic relationship."

Ms. Kolotnytska's daughter said her mother had been in Libya for nine years, originally employed in a hospital before starting work for Col. Gadhafi.

"Other Ukrainian women also work for him as nurses. Mom is one of them," she said. "For some reason, he doesn't trust Libyan women with this matter."

Write to James Marson at j.r.marson@gmail.com

# ? Feb 27, 2011 08:56

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

Xandu posted:

Oh snap

Not sure it's a smart idea to announce something like that until after it occurs.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 09:46

rolleyes: Nov 16, 2006; Sometimes you have to roll the hard... two?

Nenonen posted:

North Korea is now threatening to shoot at South Korea unless the South ceases its provocations (ie. dropping leaflets about the Middle East revolutions).

Yeah I just read that too. Poor Kim, he's lost the media spotlight.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 10:14

Spacedad: Sep 11, 2001; We go play orbital catch around the curvature of the earth, son.

rolleyes posted:

Yeah I just read that too. Poor Kim, he's lost the media spotlight.

North Korea will likely see a revolution soon themselves. There are big areas of the country controlled by anti-government street gangs of youths, where the police basically dare not go near, for example. Law and order (or the criminality of authority that passes for it) is breaking apart at the seams in that country - no one feels safe, everyone is paranoid. It's really only a matter of time before these street gangs get angry enough with others to do what we've seen in Libya and the like.

What will also help spur it on is the fact that resource shortages are now over the past year or two keeping the north korean army from being cared for and fed. Dividing the lower classes is a means for elites to maintain power and oppress underclasses - in this case, the elites of north korea giving a carrot on a string to people in the army, but giving everyone else starvation and abuse. When that divided underclass starts to feel in danger or has more in common with the commoner than the elites, that's pretty much the seeds of revolutionary movement.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 10:23

rolleyes: Nov 16, 2006; Sometimes you have to roll the hard... two?

From what I've read of NK revolution could do an enormous amount of damage. There are no shortage of people in that country who have absolutely no idea what the modern world is like, and the reports I've seen from undercover journalists who make it back from the place tell of a country supported entirely by manual labourers who are proud to be tilling fields with a wooden plough strapped to an ox while simultaneously genuinely believing that their leadership gives them the best technology available.

While it's undeniable that the current regime needs to go, I believe violent revolution (and there's no way in hell it could be peaceful) would do more harm than good by dumping the modern world and all of its problems on a population not just unprepared for it but completely ignorant of it.

edit:
This photo and its description gives a particularly good illustration of NK's priorities when it comes to government spending. The whole gallery is well worth a look too.

rolleyes fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Feb 27, 2011

# ? Feb 27, 2011 10:40

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

A NK revolution will not happen. If anything, a coup may take place if the situations presents itself. But their leader is basically a God to the people, and there are 1.2m of the 24 million serving active duty in the army. Saudi Arabia and China would fall before NK would.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:02

lil sartre: Feb 12, 2009; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Thousands of Nigerians are stranded in Libya

quote:

Libya: Gaddafi Stalls Evacuation of Nigerians

By Yemi Adebowale
26 Feb 2011

Nigerians stranded in crisis-ridden Libya may have to wait a little longer before being evacuated as Libyan authorities have refused to grant landing permit to the aircraft and personnel designated to bring them home.

President Goodluck Jonathan had on Wednesday ordered the immediate evacuation of Nigerians stranded in the troubled country.

However, sources at the National Emergency Management Agency told THISDAY last night that the team for the evacuation and the aircraft chartered for the purpose could not fly to Tripoli since Thursday as they are still awaiting diplomatic clearance from Libya.

"The Director-General of NEMA, Sani Sidi, who is the leader of the team and others have been on standby at the airport since Thursday waiting for the clearance from Libya. Others in the team are foreign affairs officers, medical personnel and immigration/rescue officers. We are still waiting for clearance," said another NEMA source.

NEMA Spokesman Yushau Shuaib confirmed the problems being faced by the Nigerian team, saying the agency would keep trying until it gets the necessary clearance to enter Libya for the evacuation exercise.

Nigerian embassy sources in Tripoli told THISDAY last night that there are about 2,000 distressed Nigerians in Libya who are eagerly awaiting evacuation.

They are said to be getting a raw deal in the hands of Libyan security men who have been brutally repressing the uprising.

The source said when the embassy was finding it difficult getting clearance for the evacuation team, at a point, it considered the idea of asking the distressed Nigerians to move to Egypt "from where the NEMA team will go and pick them."

However, the Nigerian embassy dropped the idea for fears that the Nigerians may be exposed to more dangers if they should attempt crossing Libyan land borders.

The embassy source further disclosed that the Libyan authorities have unenthusiastic about the issuance of the clearance to NEMA difficult because Libya views Nigeria as an unfriendly country.

This, the source said has been responsible for the frosty relationship between the two countries in the last ten years. As a result of this, Libya closed its embassy in Nigeria over ten years ago. However, Nigeria still maintains an embassy in Tripoli.

Not surprising since Nigeria is the African country that Gaddafi hates most

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:17

Namarrgon: Dec 23, 2008; Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Lascivious Sloth posted:

A NK revolution will not happen. If anything, a coup may take place if the situations presents itself. But their leader is basically a God to the people, and there are 1.2m of the 24 million serving active duty in the army.

I see petty dictators aren't the only ones who haven't learned anything in the last two months.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:22

rolleyes: Nov 16, 2006; Sometimes you have to roll the hard... two?

Namarrgon posted:

I see petty dictators aren't the only ones who haven't learned anything in the last two months.

The current domino effect of revolutions and unrest has been driven by coverage of the first one, both by traditional media and, more importantly, on the internet which as Egypt proved is very hard to suppress.

The only news of these events available to ordinary North Koreans is whatever South Korea floats over the border tied to balloons. Most North Koreans don't have a phone, never mind the internet. Many don't even have electricity. If they're lucky enough to have access to a TV or a radio there is nothing but state-controlled programming. Satellite TV is unheard of. How you can think the situation is remotely comparable is beyond me.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:29

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Namarrgon posted:

I see petty dictators aren't the only ones who haven't learned anything in the last two months.

The chances of the Middle East revolutions having an effect on North Korea is about equal to the Tea Party movement making its way to the country.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:33

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

For monitoring Twitter

cioxx posted:

This is the best site for monitoring twitter, for those who don't know.
http://twitterfall.com/
Just plug in #tripoli or #libya and watch the stream come through. You can do exclusions and all kinds of neat things.

For monitoring aircraft unable to land at Tripoli

Monkeytime posted:

Here's an interesting site that lets you monitor global air traffic:
http://www.flightradar24.com/

Live Blogs
BBC
AJE

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:33

harskarenjag: Mar 11, 2008

lil sartre posted:

Thousands of Nigerians are stranded in Libya

Not surprising since Nigeria is the African country that Gaddafi hates most

Ghadaffi, Gaddafi, Qaddafi...What the gently caress is his name? I've seen so many different spellings of it and no one article ever mentions why they chose a specific one.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:35

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

It's because his name is originally written in Arabic, and letters in Arabic don't directly translate to the western alphabet, so it's written how it sounds.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:38

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Guardian live blog

quote:

Good morning and welcome to the Guardian's live blog of the thirteenth day of turmoil in Libya where, Muammar Gaddafi's regime is clinging on despite international condemnation at the UN and moves to form an interim government in the east.

Here are the main developments overnight and so far this morning.

Foreign Office revokes diplomatic immunity of Gaddafi and his family, as Foreign Secretary William Hague urges the Libyan leader to step down.

More than 150 workers rescued from the Libyan desert as two RAF Hercules aircraft � backed by the SAS � pulled off a high-risk evacuation of British and other citizens. Some 200 to 380 Britons remain.

The UN Security Council last night voted unanimously to impose sanctions on Libya. It has imposed an arms embargo and asset freeze while referring Gaddafi to the International Criminal Court for alleged crimes against humanity.

The Gaddafi is showing western journalists round the Tripoli area as it tries to portray to the world that it is still in control of at least the capital.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:49

harskarenjag: Mar 11, 2008

Brown Moses posted:

It's because his name is originally written in Arabic, and letters in Arabic don't directly translate to the western alphabet, so it's written how it sounds.

But Qaddafi and Ghaddafi sound completely different. Which one is correct?

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:54

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Either, I think it's because the way the Arabic letter is pronounced varies a bit, and that can't be correctly represented in a western alphabet. There's a very details explanation somewhere else in this thread that has charts and everything.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 11:56

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

harskarenjag posted:

But Qaddafi and Ghaddafi sound completely different. Which one is correct?

What Brown Moses is getting at is that they're technically ALL right.

wiki posted:

Because of the lack of standardization of transliterating written- and regionally-pronounced Arabic, Gaddafi's name has been transliterated in many different ways into English and other Latin alphabet languages. Even though the Arabic spelling of a word does not change, the pronunciation may vary in different varieties of Arabic, which may cause a different romanization. In literary Arabic the name معمر القذافي can be pronounced /muˈʕamːaru lqa�ˈ�aːfiː/. [ʕ] represents a voiced pharyngeal fricative (ع). Geminated consonants can be simplified. In Libyan Arabic, /q/ (ق) may be replaced with [ɡ] or [k] (or even [χ]); and /�/ (ذ) (as "th" in "this") may be replaced with [d] or [t]. Vowel [u] often alternates with [o] in pronunciation. Thus, /muˈʕamːar alqa�ˈ�aːfiː/ is normally pronounced in Libyan Arabic [muˈʕ�mːɑrˤ əlɡ�dˈd�ːfi]. The definite article al- (ال) is often omitted.

An article published in the London Evening Standard in 2004 lists a total of 37 spellings of his name, while a 1986 column by The Straight Dope quotes a list of 32 spellings known at the Library of Congress. ABC made a post on its blog identifying 112 possible spellings. This extensive confusion of naming was used as the subject of a segment of Saturday Night Live's Weekend Update on 12 December 1981.

"Muammar Gaddafi" is the spelling used by TIME magazine, BBC News, the majority of the British press and by the English service of Al-Jazeera. The Associated Press, CNN, and Fox News use "Moammar Gadhafi". The Edinburgh Middle East Report uses "Mu'ammar Qaddafi" and the U.S. Department of State uses "Mu'ammar Al-Qadhafi", although the White House choses to use "Muammar el-Qaddafi". The Xinhua News Agency uses "Muammar Khaddafi" in its English reports. The New York Times uses Muammar el-Qaddafi.

In 1986, Gaddafi reportedly responded to a Minnesota school's letter in English using the spelling "Moammar El-Gadhafi". The title of the homepage of algathafi.org reads "Welcome to the official site of Muammar Al Gathafi".

In short, the alternative spellings for each part of his name are shown in brackets:

Not all combinations are possible, but most are.

e: If you want, you can play around with Google Trends to see what's more popular where. For example, worldwide, Gaddafi is the most popular way to spell his name by far, followed by Gadhafi. In the UK, they just use Gaddafi, and Gahafi is hardly mentioned; in France it's Khadafi, with some Gaddafi tossed in.

Narmi fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Feb 27, 2011

# ? Feb 27, 2011 12:04

Ewan: Sep 29, 2008; Ewan is tired of his reputation as a serious Simon. I'm more of a jokester than you people think. My real name isn't even Ewan, that was a joke it's actually MARTIN! LOL fooled you again, it really is Ewan! Look at that monkey with a big nose, Ewan is so random! XD

harskarenjag posted:

Ghadaffi, Gaddafi, Qaddafi...What the gently caress is his name? I've seen so many different spellings of it and no one article ever mentions why they chose a specific one.

There isn't a standard spelling. The sounds are transliterated from Arabic into the Roman alphabet, which usually gives some variation as it is not standardized. (e.g. Taliban/Taleban al-Qaeda/al-Qaida/al-Qa'ida). This is made worse in this instance by Gaddafi's name being pronounced several ways depending on the Arabic dialect, so you get many different transliterations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammar_al-Gaddafi#Name

^^ This has some good information on it (including which press outlets use which spellings) as well as a cool diagram showing the different alternatives (which I posted earlier in the thread).

EDIT: In fact, the diagram above is the one I am referring to.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 12:04

Maels: Jan 22, 2004; Rotund Lord of Shit Mountain

Some arabic dialects pronounce "Q" as "Gh", namely Egyptian.
If you say either, it's pretty clear who you mean, much like when the british/americans say aluminium.

efb

# ? Feb 27, 2011 12:12

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

There's several reports that despite Gaddafi's attempts to capture Misurata the local protesters are still in control their. It also sounds like Zawiya, somewhere that's come under attack a lot in past days, is now fairly firmly in the hands of the protesters.

[edit]Just posted on the Guardian:

quote:

Peter Beaumont has just phoned in with news that has come straight from Catch-22. In the Audioboo, he told me me Libyan minders were taking him to the town of Zawiyah, presumably to show that it's still under government control. That has not turned out to be the case as Peter has been busy interviewing rebel forces who have taken over the town. He can confirm that Zawiyah, some 30 kilometres from Tripoli is under rebel control. The people he talked to in the town centre said they are now under "Benghazi government" control. In the background there are people chanting "Down with Gaddafi" and "We want change". So the regime's PR campaign has got off to a shaky start to say the least as the minders have taken foreign journalists to a town in rebel hands. Pity those minders, not exactly what the regime had in mind.

Also from AJE:

quote:

We're getting reports of Libyan customs officers deserting their posts in Ras Ajdir along the border with Tunisia. More soon...

Ras Ajdir is one of two major border crossings into Tunsia.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Feb 27, 2011

# ? Feb 27, 2011 12:17

Petr: Oct 3, 2000

Narmi posted:

What Brown Moses is getting at is that they're technically ALL right.

Not all combinations are possible, but most are.

e: If you want, you can play around with Google Trends to see what's more popular where. For example, worldwide, Gaddafi is the most popular way to spell his name by far, followed by Gadhafi. In the UK, they just use Gaddafi, and Gahafi is hardly mentioned; in France it's Khadafi, with some Gaddafi tossed in.

Muammer el Gaadhdhaffy?

# ? Feb 27, 2011 12:45

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

Petr posted:

Muammer el Gaadhdhaffy?

No idiot it's Moamer El Khazzafi.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 13:02

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

More evidence that Zawiyah is in rebel hands

quote:

Further confirmation - if needed - that Zawiyah is in rebel hands. This from Reuters.

quote:
Armed men opposed to the rule of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi are in control of the city of Zawiyah, about 50 km (30 miles) west of the capital Tripoli, a Reuters reporter in the town said. The red, green and black flag of Libya's anti-Gaddafi rebellion was flying from a building in the centre of the town and a crowd of several hundred people was chanting "This is our revolution," the reporter said.

quote:

CNN reporter Nic Robertson in Zawiya tweets: "Anti-Gadhafi rally in center of town. Civilians w/guns on rooftops, securing area, fear will be attacked by regime."

Gaddafi's regime was confident enough that Zawiya was under regime control that they sent foreign journalist their with minders to show them Gaddafi was winning, yet it appears the regime didn't know the situation there. Zawiya has been under a lot of attacks from Gaddafi's forces over the past few days, yet it appears not only have those attacks failed, but Gaddafi's regime isn't even aware those attacks are failing.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 13:15

Roark: Dec 1, 2009; A moderate man - a violently moderate man.

Ewan posted:

There isn't a standard spelling. The sounds are transliterated from Arabic into the Roman alphabet, which usually gives some variation as it is not standardized. (e.g. Taliban/Taleban al-Qaeda/al-Qaida/al-Qa'ida). This is made worse in this instance by Gaddafi's name being pronounced several ways depending on the Arabic dialect, so you get many different transliterations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammar_al-Gaddafi#Name

^^ This has some good information on it (including which press outlets use which spellings) as well as a cool diagram showing the different alternatives (which I posted earlier in the thread).

EDIT: In fact, the diagram above is the one I am referring to.

There was a short and interesting piece on the Economist's website about this whole issue with Gaddafi's name. It gets the shifts from Classical Arabic to modern Libyan Arabic without going to deep into linguistics terminology.

Fun fact: he's "Kezafi" to a lot of Farsi-speakers and Iranian Arabs.

# ? Feb 27, 2011 13:31

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# ? May 21, 2024 19:34

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Fun fact: if you transliterate Mu'ammar al-Gaddafi enough times from Arabic to Latin and back, eventually you end up with "Hairloon the Porksnout".

# ? Feb 27, 2011 13:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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