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Pleads posted:Heaven forbid they add a few tens of billions of dollars to the trillions in debt to themselves they'll never pay back. A lot of our debt belongs to China who, I suspect, have pretty strong feelings against our going into Libya given that they have been investing a lot of money there lately - especially in oil.
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Feb 28, 2011 19:07
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They love me! they really love me! ... what protests? Nope, no protests going on here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12603259
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Feb 28, 2011 19:08
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Sarah Bellum posted:They love me! they really love me! ... what protests? Nope, no protests going on here. They just covered this on the BBC News, the journalist who spoke to him seemed to think Gaddafi isn't really in touch with what's going on. I think he's not getting all the information about what's going on at the moment, or he's deluded.
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Feb 28, 2011 19:12
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Pleads posted:Heaven forbid they add a few tens of billions of dollars to the trillions in debt to themselves they'll never pay back. On this note, pay attention to the spring vote on the debt ceiling. There are 3 options for the US financial situation. A) Raise the debt ceiling, going against the majority of republican's promises not to increase the 'Immoral debt accumulation'. B) Balance the budget and start paying the debt down. (Not gonna happen.) C) Default on our loans. Military funding in Iraq and Afghanistan make up about 25% of our budget. 52% if you don't include mandatory entitlement programs such as Social Security and Healthcare. We're maxed out. If we default on our loans, the banks of the world will eat the debt and fall instantly into bankruptcy. Credit will dry up. The value of the dollar will drop with it. There is simply no way to afford larger military action without drastic, economically disastrous decisions.
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Feb 28, 2011 19:12
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^^^^ Your logic and doomsday prophecy is harshing my humour  Earwicker posted:A lot of our debt belongs to China who, I suspect, have pretty strong feelings against our going into Libya given that they have been investing a lot of money there lately - especially in oil. Yeah but that's not got anything to do with whether you WANT to spend more or not. Visa suspending my card doesn't make me stop browsing Steam for video games, ya know? Some people just have addictions, and for you guys it's spending large sums of money to invade/liberate resource-rich Arabs, while I like online FPS games set in the aftermaths of those military actions. Actually with that correlation, I kind of hope the military goes in so in 5 years someone can call me a teamkilling human being in the streets of Tripoli.
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Feb 28, 2011 19:17
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Side question for those history buffs out there: Has Quaddafi ever faced resistance on the scale of what's going on in Libya right now? I'm curious if there's any way he might possibly recover from this or if it's a sure sign that he's finally on his way out. Do you mean "Has the territory he controls ever been reduced to a pathetic, ever-shrinking, soon-to-be-gone rump-state propped up only by his own tribe and foreign mercenaries"? Because no, he's never had that kind of trouble before. Slantedfloors fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 28, 2011 |
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Feb 28, 2011 19:19
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Thrust On Moore posted:Yeah, I... okay then. Are you familiar with the Nation of Islam? It's no wonder he praises Scientology, they're both bizarre UFO cults. Nation of Islam believes that white people were the product of an evil alien scientist named Yakub. Regular Muslims see NoI as not being an actual Islamic outfit (it isn't).
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Feb 28, 2011 19:29
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Pleads posted:^^^^ Your logic and doomsday prophecy is harshing my humour The thing about it is it's not a doomsday scenario. Empires come and go. You can't avoid it. Ottomans, Persians, Greek, Roman, British, French, German. Each thought they were unique and their reign would last forever and they were the most powerful the earth has ever seen. Everything comes to an end and the world will always keep turning. What happens next will eventually just be another moment in the books of history. The reason the second world war started was because everyone thought it couldn't.
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Feb 28, 2011 19:31
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Sivias posted:The thing about it is it's not a doomsday scenario. Empires come and go. You can't avoid it. Ottomans, Persians, Greek, Roman, British, French, German. Each thought they were unique and their reign would last forever and they were the most powerful the earth has ever seen. Originally, WW1 was called "The war to end all wars".
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Feb 28, 2011 19:35
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Patter Song posted:Nation of Islam believes that white people were the product of an evil alien scientist named Yakub. Also, before the invention of White People, every one drove around in flaming flying saucers.
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Feb 28, 2011 19:35
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Brown Moses posted:They just covered this on the BBC News, the journalist who spoke to him seemed to think Gaddafi isn't really in touch with what's going on. I think he's not getting all the information about what's going on at the moment, or he's deluded. That's what the psychiatrist quoted in this article says: http://abcnews.go.com/International/libyas-gadhafi-inside-head-madman/story?id=12999918 quote:Jerrold Post, a psychiatrist who worked for the CIA for 21 years, said Gadhafi had a borderline personality disorder that caused a person to lose touch with reality during stressful times. That makes sense to me, actually. People with it can be prone to very, very extreme rages wherein all rational thought and action goes out the window. Some people with borderline personality disorder can also display very extreme behaviour that they either later remember incorrectly or don't remember doing at all. Edit: However, most people with BPD are more likely to damage themselves than others. I know a lot of people with the disorder who are very compassionate under normal circumstances. Gaddafi seems to be quite sociopathic on top of having BPD. Cacatua fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Feb 28, 2011 |
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Feb 28, 2011 19:40
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Petey posted:http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/28/110228fa_fact_steavenson?currentPage=all It's usually a good idea to read anything Petey recommends for you. The Moor Next Door is so droll sometimes: quote:@themoornextdoor And the link, translated by Google Chrome from French (Google is a lot better at translating French than it is Arabic or Persian) quote:Some ten thousand contractors who served in the fight against terrorism have been deleted from the ranks of the PNA disability "not attributable to service." These former soldiers say they are shocked to see the state restore the terrorists when he abandons them to their fate. Hmm, that is...impolitic. One of the people I've been following on Twitter is witnessorg. Here's a link to their website, it's really quite interesting: http://www.witness.org/ witnessorg has provided quite a few splendid (and by splendid I mean ghastly) videos of events happening at all the protests. If JP Morgan gets a controlling interest in Twitter some time in the future, do you think Twitter will still be as free as it is, or will there be roving hordes of moderators deleting posts and suspending accounts that dare to talk about more than Justin Bieber, the Oscars, and Lindsay Lohan's latest escapades? quote:A fund recently set up by Wall Street bank JP Morgan is reportedly trying to bag stakes in Twitter and Zynga, two of the hottest firms in online social media. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/feb/28/jp-morgan-seeks-twitter-zynga-stakes?CMP=twt_fd They can have Farmville and Cityville though. Got to promote capitalism the best way you can---by allowing the plebs to have the virtual wealth that they'll never be able to achieve irl. An unconfirmed report out of Libya: quote:@feb17voices Of course, this is the type of report that simply can't be confirmed, and by the time there's a free flow of information coming out of Libya, this little story will seem like small potatoes compared to the atrocities we'll learn about in the future. Gaddahfi continues to bomb bases outside of Benghazi: quote:Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- A Libyan military jet bombed a base in eastern Libya on Monday, as embattled leader Moammar Gadhafi fought to hold onto his regime. http://www.aina.org/news/20110228113719.htm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter I know this isn't about the Middle East, but it does give an idea of the quality of the reporting on any given subject inside the United States: quote:MONDAY, FEB 28, 2011 12:55 ET http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/02/28/olbermann_nyt_wisconsin/index.html And now we know what happened to Keith Olbermann as well; he's writing his own blog: http://foknewschannel.com/ I think it's a good plan for him. If you don't like what someone is saying, just "disappear" them: quote:TEHRAN (BNO NEWS) -- Iran on Monday arrested opposition leaders Mirhossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karoubi as well as their wives, according to an opposition news website. It comes just a day before a planned protest. http://channel6newsonline.com/2011/..._medium=twitter Oh, Iran, when are you going to learn  A translation of Saif Al-Islam's speech today (Warning: LOUD): http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-563254 Apology fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Feb 28, 2011 |
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Feb 28, 2011 19:41
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Brown Moses posted:British forces have been asked to develop plans to impose a no-fly zone on Libya, David Cameron has just told Parliament. Cacatua posted:Edit: However, most people with BPD are more likely to damage themselves than others. I know a lot of people with the disorder who are very compassionate under normal circumstances. Gaddafi seems to be quite sociopathic on top of having BPD. Men with BPD tend to be prone to violence towards others but I wouldn't be that quick to medicalise the guy: for most of his life he has had to get up and wrestle over whether he would spend his days rolling in oil money or lording over a nation with an iron fist. Suddenly out of nowhere everyone in his country wants to kill him and his and his families life is pretty much over. Denial has got to be the most predictable reaction. Ireland Sucks fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Feb 28, 2011 |
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Feb 28, 2011 20:05
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quote not edit you know the drill
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Feb 28, 2011 20:14
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It looks like within the past 24 hours Gaddafi has made a concerted attempt at punishing the opposition, with failed assaults of Zawiya and Misrata, and an attempt to bomb ammunition depots in the east that also evidently failed (due to incompetence or sabotage). Gaddafi must really hate the opposition radio in Misrata, since it has been the target of attacks at least 2 or 3 times in the past few days. Unconfirmed reports also suggest that opposition forces in Zawiya have branched out and overrun a Gaddafi checkpoint in Jeddain. Rumors are also that the feared Khamis Brigade was behind the assault on Zawiya earlier, but this can't be confirmed. Khaweldi's security brigade is allegedly positioned in Sorman (pop. 36,000), giving it fast access to either Zawiya or Ghadames. I've found this this twitter account to be generally pretty timely and fairly accurate: http://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi Edit: Also reports circulating that Gaddafi is employing his foreign intelligence chief to open a dialog with the eastern rebels, and that a mission has been sent to Benghazi. Unconfirmed quotes from Gaddafi's deputy foreign minister suggest that this is some sort of last chance for the rebels to negotiate.
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Feb 28, 2011 20:26
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More like last chance for Gaddafi. He might find it a bit difficult to pay some of those mercenaries now:quote:The US appears to be intensifying efforts now to turn the screws on Gaddafi regime. Bit more delusion from Gaddafi: quote:Some more lines have come out from that interview (left) with Muammar Gaddafi.
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Feb 28, 2011 20:33
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Bit more news on the situation in Tripoli:quote:A Pakistani engineer in Tripoli has been telling BBC Pashto that the situation in the capital is anything but normal. "You can neither get out of Tripoli nor you can enter. There is a little bit of traffic on the road but all the markets are closed. You can't get food and water." quote:The engineer says bread is the only food that can be found in Tripoli. "It costs two to three Dinar ($1.5-3.5) and you have to wait for three hours in a queue to get it."
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Feb 28, 2011 20:36
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Is it known where Gaddafi physically is right now? I'm kind of imagining a scenario where the anti-Gaddafi forces finally take Tripoli, storm a bunker and find a guy that looks just like him, wearing his robes and everything, and either kill or or hand him over to the UN for war crimes trials and then celebrating for a couple hours before the real Gadaffi gets in front of a camera in Samarkand or something. "Surprise! Still alive!"
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Feb 28, 2011 20:38
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He was interviewed today in Tripoli by the BBC, Sunday Times, and some other US news organisation. I think as far as Gaddafi is concerned everything isn't that bad, so he doesn't need to go anywhere yet.
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Feb 28, 2011 20:40
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^^^ For some reason when you said that I imagined Gaddafi as a quarterback in the super bowl. It's 4th and long. His team is down 5 points with no time on the clock. He needs to make this pass. The hike. He shotguns back... searches for his receiver. And notices the most beautiful of butterflies wafting above the field and decides to watch it. Oh, he also has no offensive line. He's so hosed.
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Feb 28, 2011 20:48
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Brown Moses posted:More like last chance for Gaddafi. He might find it a bit difficult to pay some of those mercenaries now: Well, at least he's on the right track when he says "America isn't the international police of the world". Now if only we could get some of the people inside the United States ruling powers to realize the same thing, but there's money to be made in perpetual war so that won't go far.
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Feb 28, 2011 20:52
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Sivias posted:^^^ For some reason when you said that I imagined Gaddafi as a quarterback in the super bowl. It's 4th and long. His team is down 5 points with no time on the clock. He needs to make this pass. Also the entire stadium crowd hates him and wants him to die. (They represent the rest of the world)
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Feb 28, 2011 20:52
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Gaddafi is JaMarcus Russell, complete with syrup and skittles.
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Feb 28, 2011 21:03
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roundmidnight posted:Gaddafi is JaMarcus Russell, complete with syrup and skittles. I was going with Brady Quinn, but this works too.
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Feb 28, 2011 21:08
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I keep thinking how harder the job of protesters is getting with each succeeding revolution. Those regimes aren't sitting still and learn from the mistakes of Tunisia, Egypt and Libya.
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Feb 28, 2011 21:10
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cioxx posted:I keep thinking how harder the job of protesters is getting with each succeeding revolution. Those regimes aren't sitting still and learn from the mistakes of Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. At the same time though, it just energizes the protesters more, because they can point at all those other countries and say "They fought for their freedom and won, now it's our turn."
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Feb 28, 2011 21:11
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cioxx posted:I keep thinking how harder the job of protesters is getting with each succeeding revolution. Those regimes aren't sitting still and learn from the mistakes of Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. They're not really "learning" from the other regime's mistakes, they're just blindly flailing out and trying to intimidate the protesters so they can grab some breathing room. They've all used the exact same pattern for quelling protests and unrest for decades, but it's only now that they're realizing those preparations are worth dick-all if their citizens actually want them gone. The Cheshire Cat posted:At the same time though, it just energizes the protesters more, because they can point at all those other countries and say "They fought for their freedom and won, now it's our turn." Slantedfloors fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Feb 28, 2011 |
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Feb 28, 2011 21:18
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Furious Mittens posted:Well, at least he's on the right track when he says "America isn't the international police of the world". Now if only we could get some of the people inside the United States ruling powers to realize the same thing, but there's money to be made in perpetual war so that won't go far. Broken watch, etc. Seems like it might be spreading to Gaddahfi's only remaining buddy in Nicaragua: quote:Facebook Brings Nicaraguan Youth Together Against President Ortega in “Virtual March” http://www.hispanicallyspeakingnews..._medium=twitter I'm not renaming my twitter list to Middle_East_Africa_South_America_New. Twitter won't let me use that many characters in the title. Oman is still working hard towards achieving freedom and parity: quote:Oman protests spread, teargas fired http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Oman+protests+spread+teargas+fired/4355904/story.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter For more jobs to be created for Omanis, they'll have to stop using slave labor, of course: quote:Oman is a transit and destination country for men and women, primarily from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, and Indonesia, most of whom migrate willingly to Oman as domestic servants or low-skilled workers in the country’s construction, agriculture, and service sectors. Some of them subsequently face conditions indicative of involuntary servitude, such as withholding of passports and other restrictions on movement, non-payment of wages, long working hours without food or rest, threats, and physical or sexual abuse. Unscrupulous labor recruitment agencies and their sub-agents at the community level in South Asia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) may coerce or defraud workers into accepting work in Oman that turns out to be exploitative and, in some instances, constitutes involuntary servitude. - U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June, 2009 [full country report] http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Oman.htm And humanitarian aid simply can't get into Tripoli: quote:The fragile security situation in and around the Libya capital of Tripoli has made it too dangerous for international aid agencies to assess the need for medicine, food and other supplies there, the United Nations has said. http://english.aljazeera.net//news/africa/2011/02/2011228191419265337.html If you've ever been truly hungry, then you know what it's like for some of these people. If you have a few extra bucks, please donate them to a charity that fights world hunger, or one that provides medical care to people in underprivileged countries. Perhaps someone who knows more about charities than I do can suggest a few. I seem to be a bad picker when it comes to charities. And a little about the ladies  :quote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ehsan-zaffar/the-revolution-isnt-over-_b_828651.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter Come on, Egypt. They helped you, they took the same risks of getting shot or hit in the head with a rock, they got tear-gassed right alongside you, and they took the added risk of being brutally raped, the least you can do is give them a seat at the table
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Feb 28, 2011 21:22
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Apology posted:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ehsan-zaffar/the-revolution-isnt-over-_b_828651.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter Article's got quite a few things wrong: - In 1919 it wasn't really a revolution and it never achieved independence from the British - None of the people on the constitutional amendment committe are "strident champions of the Egyptian Revolution", male of female. They're old constitutional supreme judges and law professors, not some people off the street writing whatever comes to their mind. - Mubarak's regime never suppressed female political partcipation or spread fear about it, in fact they went as far as to declare that a large portion of the people's assembly (equivalent to the congress in the US) must be female which basically marked certain districts "female-only", so only female candidates could run in these districts. Plus they've had several female ministers throughout the years.
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Feb 28, 2011 21:33
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Slantedfloors posted:Also this, with a focus on Egypt. Egypt is basically the lynchpin of the Middle East - where it goes, everyone else follows. They've been the most powerful Arab state since post-colonialization (and before, technically) and are by far the most influential. Other authoritarian states in the region have always been able to rely on their people not doing much overthrowing, just because Egypt hadn't done it first as an example. Now that the Egyptian people have overthrown their dictator, everyone else in the region are realizing their own dictator doesn't have a fraction of the power of Mubarak, and the dictators ae freaking out. On one level, this is accurate, but on another level, Mubarak's degree of control in Egypt is dwarfed by the level of control that, say, the Saudi Royal Family has in the KSA. Also, for a variety of factors discussed earlier, Egypt was actually one of the Arab countries most susceptible to a successful revolution. The Gulf States don't want to give their slaves the wrong ideas, the Iranian regime has proven able to cow protestors through overwhelming violence, Lebanon is too fractured and complex... (I sure hope the people of Lebanon prove me wrong)
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Feb 28, 2011 21:34
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Monkeytime posted:From CNN's Mideast blog: The way she's been speaking, I think the US and EU are likely to continue increasing pressure on Gaddafi over the next week. Naval forces could be the basis of a no-fly zone. edit: The US military is also the best equipped to deal with a humanitarian crisis. The Cheshire Cat posted:Has that ever stopped the US in the past? There was a coup attempt in the early 90s, but nothing of this scale. Xandu fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Feb 28, 2011 |
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Feb 28, 2011 21:36
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Not seen this mentioned in the thread, but one of the Hercules that was involved in the second (of two) RAF evacuations came under small arms fire and was damaged yesterday. The BBC's Frank Gardner says on Twitter: Im told the group who fired on the RAF rescue Hercules yesterday mistook it for a regime plane and have apologised
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Feb 28, 2011 21:40
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Patter Song posted:On one level, this is accurate, but on another level, Mubarak's degree of control in Egypt is dwarfed by the level of control that, say, the Saudi Royal Family has in the KSA. Also, for a variety of factors discussed earlier, Egypt was actually one of the Arab countries most susceptible to a successful revolution. The Gulf States don't want to give their slaves the wrong ideas, the Iranian regime has proven able to cow protestors through overwhelming violence, Lebanon is too fractured and complex... (I sure hope the people of Lebanon prove me wrong) I don't doubt that the level of control exercised by some other Middle Eastern states is greater than Egypt (the Gulf states and Syria, especially) or that all circumstances are exactly the same, just that the methods they've used to protect their interests are working off the same blueprint the Mubarak regime's. Which as it turns out, were worth sweet gently caress all in the face of the entire country wanting Mubarak out of power. If Egypt can come out of this a successful democracy, I really don't see this wave of protests burning out until the various autocracies start making massive reforms or collapse entirely. Egypt is just too influential in Middle Eastern politics for it to be some kind of weird isolated pariah democracy in a sea of dictatorships. Unrest and demands for political freedoms will start bleeding into other countries by sheer cultural force. Slantedfloors fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Feb 28, 2011 |
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Feb 28, 2011 21:48
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Slightly   video with Gaddafi as the theme  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLZUWfC0L8Y I love tonetta 
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Feb 28, 2011 21:57
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Heintron posted:Slightly A work of art.
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Feb 28, 2011 22:17
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Let the floodgates open! Habib Al Adly, former Minister of Interior and responsible for the Egyptian police, prisons and internal security forces was arrested several weeks ago and they've begun interrogating him pertaining to the events taking place between the 25th and 28th. His forces were the ones that opposed the protesters in Egypt from Jan. 25th till the 28th, killing over 300 and wounding thousands then mysteriously disappeared from the streets and prisons the evening of the 28th which caused massive chaos and looting. So far, here's what he said: He denied giving the order to open fire on the protesters, saying he gave his assistants on the field (police and central security commanders) broad authority to do whatever they think is appropriate to deal with the situation as they were out in the streets while he was not, and that the responsibility for the deaths lies upon these commanders, saying "I didn't call every officer to tell them to open fire!" And in regards to the decision to open all the prisons nation-wide (prisoners in Egypt numbering tens of thousands, most of them in for rape, murder, theft or something similar) he says that the decision came from many leaders and officials in the NDP (National Democratic Party, Mubarak's party) and they demanded he cause chaos and terror in the country so the protesters would "go home". He's also confirmed he received orders from one of the key leaders of the NDP to remove the protesters by any means necessary including shooting everyone, hiring thugs (what we saw in the camel battle) in order to kill the protest movement. Ironically, the attorney general's office interrogated Habib Al Adly's assistants first and they defended their former minister and said the order to open fire came from low-level officers on the field, but after Habib's statement they've changed their testimonies and they're saying Habib ordered them to open fire on protesters and to open the prisons.
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Feb 28, 2011 22:40
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Sivias posted:The thing about it is it's not a doomsday scenario. Empires come and go. You can't avoid it. Ottomans, Persians, Greek, Roman, British, French, German. Each thought they were unique and their reign would last forever and they were the most powerful the earth has ever seen. It's worth pointing out that the Egyptians kept a single civilization/empire going for 2500 years.
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Feb 28, 2011 22:42
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The-Mole posted:It's worth pointing out that the Egyptians kept a single civilization/empire going for 2500 years. They were also the first and only game in town - until Rome popped up.
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Feb 28, 2011 22:50
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Slantedfloors posted:They're not really "learning" from the other regime's mistakes, they're just blindly flailing out and trying to intimidate the protesters so they can grab some breathing room. They've all used the exact same pattern for quelling protests and unrest for decades, but it's only now that they're realizing those preparations are worth dick-all if their citizens actually want them gone. Actually I would say they may be learning. The initial protests were all met with violence, and that violence(especially deaths) is what catalyzed the revolutions. Seeing your countrymen stand up for you, then be killed for you makes you a lot more likely to stand up and snowball things. There was some other country that started using crowd control gear rather than weapons. I guess thats good, but it will stop the protests from becoming revolutions IMO. Again its hosed up, but you have to break some eggs to make an omelet or whatever.
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Feb 28, 2011 22:58
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Sivias posted:They were also the first and only game in town - until Rome popped up. The Assyrians, Babylonians, Hittites, Sumerians, etc. would like a word...
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