Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Mr. Safe posted:

And I forgot to consider that he's probably not originally from Libya anyway.

Gaddafi is still probably quite popular, in parts of the country and the society. If the anti-Gaddafi folks haven't had time to organize themselves into a mass movement in Tripoli, then it's too late for it now, in which case Gaddafi could expect the greater Tripoli area to stand around him for some time. Also keep in mind that this isn't just army versus unarmed protesters anymore, now this is army versus armed Al-Qaeda cells who are giving poison milk to children.

:hitler:

was also opposed by many Germans, but millions also swore by him at the height of his craze and were eager to kill their own people. People are cute when they give their lives for crazy dictators.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 21:09

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# ? May 21, 2024 22:35

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

More info on todays battle:

quote:

AP has more on the battle between pro- and anti-Gaddafi forces in Brega, reporting that at least 10 rebel fighters were killed and 18 wounded.

quote:
The attack began just after dawn, when several hundred pro-Gadhafi forces in 50 trucks and SUVs mounted with machine guns descended on the port, driving out a small opposition contingent and seizing control of the oil facilities, port and airstrip. But by afternoon, they had lost it all and had retreated to a university campus 5 miles (7km) away.
There, opposition fighters besieged them, clambering from the beach up a hill to the campus as mortars and heavy machine gun fire blasted around them, according to an Associated Press reporter at the scene. They took cover behind grassy dunes, firing back with assault rifles, machine guns and grenade launchers. At one point a war plane struck in the dunes to try to disperse them, but it caused no casualties and the siege continued.
"The dogs have fled," one middle-aged fighter shouted, waving his Kalashnikov over his head in victory after the Gadhafi forces withdrew from the town before nightfall.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 21:10

Ireland Sucks: May 16, 2004

Forget Jews, imperialists and Al-Qaeda: if I have learned anything from these protests it's that the dogs are the cause of everyone's problems and we should unite against them.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 21:27

Paradox Personified: Mar 15, 2010; SoroScrew

Nenonen posted:

If the anti-Gaddafi folks haven't had time to organize themselves into a mass movement in Tripoli, then it's too late for it now,

May I ask why?

# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:05

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Brown Moses posted:

More info on todays battle:

This is just a taste of what will happen if/when Gaddafi tries to hold onto Tripoli by military force.

Cool picture of revolutionaries on a tank in Ajdabiya, Libya.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:11

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Paradox Personified posted:

May I ask why?

I mean that once the government has started reacting to the unrest in force, it becomes more difficult to recruit more people for the cause due to curfews etc., while the pro-government factions can spread their own pro-CG, anti-protester propaganda. It's questionable if that is effective, but it suffices for the government's purposes if the people don't know what's really going on and stay at homes.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:27

lil sartre: Feb 12, 2009; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Apology posted:

Don't count Sudan out of the fighting yet:

http://english.aljazeera.net//news/africa/2011/03/201132133019841904.html

"Proud of killing" is a euphemism for "reporting the true death toll that the government is minimizing to try and make things look a little better" I guess. What an rear end Aguer is.

I think you're confusing things. South Sudan has voted 99% for separation from Sudan a month ago and they will be an independent country in July. They have their own autonomous government and army (SPLA which has fought against the north Sudanese arabs for decades) and "general" Athor is just a rogue rebel leader who wants to cause trouble for.. political gain I guess? Thing is, it's a separate issue from the protests in North Sudan, which is a different country by this point.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:40

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Yeah, it's a complicated situation. My understanding of it is that General Athor is pro-secession, but anti-SPLA, the de-facto government of South Sudan. There was some attempt to bring him into the fold through the cease-fire the article talks about (his forces were also given amnesty and were supposed to lay down their arms), but there was apparently an attack by someone in early february. Athor claims the SPLA attacked his bases, but the SPLA claims that Gen. Athor attacked them and massacred civilians. Whatever actually did happen resulted in hundreds of deaths.

I won't simplify it by saying one side is good and one is bad, but I wouldn't necessarily believe Athor's story.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:49

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

From various news reports it sounds like Brega has loads of rebels streaming into it, so it'll be even harder to capture now.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 23:08

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

Apology posted:

There's clearly something I'm not understanding about the Saudi succession. Why can't King Abdullah declare Prince Sultan incompetent and name someone else? And if that wouldn't work due to factions, etc., why can't King Abdullah force Prince Sultan to name his chosen successor and pass the crown to Sultan's choice? IDGI.

Thank you for that article. Though I realized how old Sultan is, I had no idea he was an Alzheimer's sufferer. That puts the Saudi "pass the throne from brother to brother" thing in an even starker highlight. I mean, their entire ruling generation is over 80.

In any event, Sultan's relatives (including his son, American favorite Prince Bandar) are extremely powerful, and Abdullah doesn't want to piss off his nephews by stripping Sultan of his succession, particularly because Sultan is next in line by tradition (and one of the Sudiari Seven, like Abdullah).

# ? Mar 2, 2011 23:11

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Brown Moses posted:

From various news reports it sounds like Brega has loads of rebels streaming into it, so it'll be even harder to capture now.

Logistical support is going to be a bitch though. The rebels have the ability to mobilize popular support, what they need is the ability to organize and fund an army/populace.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 23:11

Spiderfist Island: Feb 19, 2011

the walkin dude posted:

Wow, this picture makes the Teabaggers (gogo corporate-sponsored "revolutions") look even more shameful than they already are.

They even manage to have better English skills too, for crying out loud.

# ? Mar 2, 2011 23:12

Radio!: Mar 15, 2008; Look at that post.

Is it a completely stupid idea to email the April 6 movement directly and ask if there's a way people can donate or something to help out? I know there was some talk of donations for Egypt awhile back, but I think that was going to be through the military and I don't remember hearing about it since.

It'd be nice to be able to help out, even a little.

Note: there might be information about this on their Arabic website, but I can't read Arabic and their English site is awful.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 01:39

Ramms+ein: Nov 11, 2003; Henshin-a-go-go, baby!

Radio! posted:

Note: there might be information about this on their Arabic website, but I can't read Arabic and their English site is awful.

Do you have the link for their Arabic site? They may have more info there.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 02:08

Heran Bago: Aug 18, 2006

I really have to thank the guys like Brown Moses for keeping this thread up to date. Ya'll are doing a fantastic job. It's been said but it's worth repeating.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 02:45

Radio!: Mar 15, 2008; Look at that post.

http://6april.org/

Here you go!

edit: seconding the thanks to Brown Moses. You are awesome.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 02:45

Ramms+ein: Nov 11, 2003; Henshin-a-go-go, baby!

Radio! posted:

http://6april.org/

Here you go!

edit: seconding the thanks to Brown Moses. You are awesome.

Ok, on the right-hand side of their page, a ways down, it says:

"To donate to the April 6 youth
We ask you to communicate through this email:
info@6april.org"

It's the same one they have under their contact info. I imagine that they can receive and respond to emails in English if they've set up their English site.

e: Who knows who the individuals who set up this website are, though. I imagine that they're not striking canal or textile workers.

Ramms+ein fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Mar 3, 2011

# ? Mar 3, 2011 03:38

Ramms+ein: Nov 11, 2003; Henshin-a-go-go, baby!

Looks like they haven't set up the "about us" section of their English website yet. Sorry for the quick translation.

Who Are we?
A group of Egyptian youth of all ages and persuasions who got together over the course of a whole year after the renewal of the April 6th hope of the possibility of a social action in Egypt in which the youth could participate, in all of the groups and strata of society, in all parts of the country, in order to emerge from our crisis and to reach a democratic future that overcomes the current state of obstruction of political, economic and social horizons at which our nation has stopped. Most of us did not come from a political background, and most of us did not work in a political or public capacity before April 6, 2008, but we were able to secure our connection to each other and define our direction by means of working together throughout that year.

[quote=]
من نحن؟
مجموعه من الشباب المصرى من مختلف الاعمار و الاتجاهات تجمعنا على مدار عام كامل منذ أن تجدد الامل يوم 6 ابريل 2008 فى إمكانية حدوث عمل جماعى فى مصر يساهم فيه الشباب مع كافة فئات و طبقات المجتمع فى كافة انحاء الوطن من أجل الخروج به من ازمته و الوصول به لمستقبل ديمقراطى يتجاوز حالة انسداد الآفاق السياسيه و الاقتصاديه والاجتماعيه التى يقف عندها الوطن الآن لم يأت اغلبنا من خلفيه سياسيه ما و لم يمارس اغلبنا العمل السياسى أو العمل العام قبل 6 ابريل 2008 و لكننا استطعنا ضبط بوصلتنا و تحديد اتجاهنا من خلال الممارسه اثناء ذلك العام.
[/quote]

Ramms+ein fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Mar 3, 2011

# ? Mar 3, 2011 04:11

quadratic: May 2, 2002; f(x) = ax^2 + bx + c

Radio! posted:

Is it a completely stupid idea to email the April 6 movement directly and ask if there's a way people can donate or something to help out? I know there was some talk of donations for Egypt awhile back, but I think that was going to be through the military and I don't remember hearing about it since.

It'd be nice to be able to help out, even a little.

Note: there might be information about this on their Arabic website, but I can't read Arabic and their English site is awful.

If you don't mind ending up on a government watchlist, you may want to consider donating to http://www.islamicreliefusa.org/egypt-crisis

They have a 4-star rating from Charity Navigator for whatever that's worth.

(They've got a Libya campaign as well http://www.islamicreliefusa.org/libya)

# ? Mar 3, 2011 05:15

Radio!: Mar 15, 2008; Look at that post.

quadratic posted:

If you don't mind ending up on a government watchlist

This is the saddest.

Thanks for the info, though! I will definitely send some money their way and try to convince my friends to do the same.

Ramms+ein posted:

Ok, on the right-hand side of their page, a ways down, it says:

"To donate to the April 6 youth
We ask you to communicate through this email:
info@6april.org"

Thank you for looking this up. I probably won't end up donating to them at the moment since there seems to be a better option, but hopefully it will be useful for other people to know.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 05:31

quadratic: May 2, 2002; f(x) = ax^2 + bx + c

Radio! posted:

Thank you for looking this up. I probably won't end up donating to them at the moment since there seems to be a better option, but hopefully it will be useful for other people to know.

Their Arabic "about us" page says:

quote:

نعتمد على إشتراكات وتبرعات أعضاء الحركة كمصدر اساسى للتمويل، و نرفض التمويل المالى الخارجى

Which I'd translate as "We rely on memberships and donations from members of the movement as the main source of financing, and we reject foreign financing." (Their emphasis.)

Still, they may be able to direct you to other organizations...

# ? Mar 3, 2011 05:57

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Just wanted to point out that Thomas Friedman is the biggest moron in the entire history of the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/opinion/02friedman.html

# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:23

laughterhouse five: Feb 17, 2011; by elpintogrande

Nonsense posted:

Just wanted to point out that Thomas Friedman is the biggest moron in the entire history of the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/opinion/02friedman.html

He really, really is.

quote:

ISRAEL The Arab TV network Al Jazeera has a big team covering Israel today. Here are some of the stories they have been beaming into the Arab world: Israel�s previous prime minister, Ehud Olmert, had to resign because he was accused of illicitly taking envelopes stuffed with money from a Jewish-American backer. An Israeli court recently convicted Israel�s former president Moshe Katsav on two counts of rape, based on accusations by former employees. And just a few weeks ago, Israel, at the last second, rescinded the appointment of Maj. Gen. Yoav Galant as the army�s new chief of staff after Israeli environmentalists spurred a government investigation that concluded General Galant had seized public land near his home. (You can see his house on Google Maps!) This surely got a few laughs in Egypt where land sales to fat cats and cronies of the regime that have resulted in huge overnight profits have been the talk of Cairo this past year. When you live right next to a country that is bringing to justice its top leaders for corruption and you live in a country where many of the top leaders are corrupt, well, you notice.

THE BEIJING OLYMPICS

# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:29

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

Nonsense posted:

Just wanted to point out that Thomas Friedman is the biggest moron in the entire history of the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/opinion/02friedman.html

At least he's not going on about caliphates.

And how the hell does someone equate giving up your freedom and getting a decent government? He's talking about China too so I don't even know what the hell led to that connection.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:35

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Nonsense posted:

Just wanted to point out that Thomas Friedman is the biggest moron in the entire history of the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/opinion/02friedman.html

quote:

�Hmmm, let�s see. He�s young. I�m young. He�s dark-skinned. I�m dark-skinned. His middle name is Hussein. My name is Hussein. His grandfather is a Muslim. My grandfather is a Muslim. He is president of the United States. And I�m an unemployed young Arab with no vote and no voice in my future.�

This parody is equally plausible

http://inanities.org/2011/03/this-is-just-the-start-and-it-never-loving-ends/

# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:37

Greg Legg: Oct 6, 2004

Heran Bago posted:

I really have to thank the guys like Brown Moses for keeping this thread up to date. Ya'll are doing a fantastic job. It's been said but it's worth repeating.

This. I don't have internet access at work and you guys are giving me lots of useful links to read when I get home. I feel like I have a good grasp of what is happening because of this thread. Thanks, guys!

# ? Mar 3, 2011 07:36

quadratic: May 2, 2002; f(x) = ax^2 + bx + c

Xandu posted:

This parody is equally plausible

http://inanities.org/2011/03/this-is-just-the-start-and-it-never-loving-ends/

This is great.

PS: Congrats on the modship!

quadratic fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Mar 3, 2011

# ? Mar 3, 2011 07:40

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Thanks!

Saleh says he's agreed to a plan to step down by the end of the year (or rather to reach "a framework for his eventual exit"). I give him less than a week. Slightly optimistic, but I just don't see a way out of this for him.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704005404576176742973494216.html posted:

SAN'A, Yemen�Yemen's president and opposition members agreed to a deal late Wednesday that opponents said gives the president until year's end to work out a framework for his eventual exit and that would rule out handing down power to his son.

A government official confirmed late Wednesday that the sides had reached "common ground" on opposition demands, but gave no details. The plan opposition leaders described, which would give President Ali Abdullah Saleh nearly a year to work out how he would eventually transfer power, would mark a softening from their demands earlier Wednesday that he step down this year.

Mr. Saleh, should he agree to a plan to transfer power, would become the third regional leader to step aside in the wave of protests against regimes across the region, following the ousters of Tunisia's Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali and Egypt's Hosni Mubarak earlier this year.

Following weeks of unrest in Yemen as protesters sought Mr. Saleh's ouster and democratic reforms, Mr. Saleh's government met late Wednesday with representatives from the Joint Meeting Party, a coalition of opposition groups, both sides said.

Afterward, the Joint Meeting Party said in a statement: "The president agreed to determine the series of step that he will take to leave power, with no inheritance, during a period of time that will not extend beyond this year."

The government official familiar with the meeting wouldn't comment on whether the plan involves a departure date for Mr. Saleh. "The plan proposed to the ruling party was favorably received," the official said, adding the government would issue a formal response statement Thursday.

Earlier Wednesday, opposition leaders offered Mr. Saleh a five-point plan of demands that called for the president to leave power by year's end and sought for all political parties in Yemen to confer on the best way to transfer power democratically.

A protest leader said early Thursday that any agreement by the sides wouldn't be accepted unless the president was to leave immediately, underscoring the distance that remains between many protesters and some Joint Meeting Party leaders, many of whom include politicians who have provided loyal opposition to Mr. Saleh for years.

Mr. Saleh, who has been in power for more than 30 years, has been an important regional ally for the U.S. Washington has provided millions of dollars in military aid to Mr. Saleh's government to help him battle an increasingly ambitious Yemen-based affiliate of al Qaeda. The Yemen-based group claimed responsibility for the Christmas Day 2009 attempted bombing of a Detroit-bound jet and a thwarted plot to send explosives to the U.S. aboard cargo planes late last year.

The president said in February he wouldn't run for election when his term ends in 2013. In January, he said he wouldn't hand power over to his son Ahmed Saleh but the opposition have continued to voice concerns that he would do so.
...

# ? Mar 3, 2011 07:53

UltraShame: Nov 6, 2006; Vocabulum.

Anderson Cooper's interview with a Gaddafi-supporting "government spokesman" (I didn't catch the name as I turned it on late, but it wasn't his son) was absolutely cringeworthy. The guy being interviewed by AC looked like he had his nuts in a vice.

quote:

Which I'd translate as "We rely on memberships and donations from members of the movement as the main source of financing, and we reject foreign financing." (Their emphasis.)

I'd say give your money to Doctors Without Borders. If you want to ameliorate stuff like this, they're a pretty safe bet, especially with "we don't want foreign money" being said. Seek more opinions and information, though - I Am Not An Expert.

edit: backtracked and realised the original guy was talking about Egypt, not Libya, whoops. But still donate to MSF if you want to help in situations like these.

UltraShame fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Mar 3, 2011

# ? Mar 3, 2011 08:06

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

In Egypt the Supreme Military court has jailed an activist after charging him with assaulting a public official on duty and breaking curfew.

quote:

Elbihiry was arrested during the early hours of Saturday morning, in front of the Council of Ministers headquarters, at a peaceful demonstration demanding the resignation of Ahmed Shafiq, the interim prime minister.

He was one of a group of protesters that took part in a peaceful sit-in, which was violently dispersed by the Egyptian armed forces, and military police. Protesters were reportedly beaten with sticks, others with electric shock batons.

[...]

Dr Laila Mustafa Soueif, a lecturer at Cairo Universitywas present at the sit-in and witnessed first hand the clashes and the initial arrest of Elbihiry.

"I was in the sit-in on Kasr el Aini street, when it was dispersed forcibly by police and military elements. As we were leaving, military elements took Amr Abdallah ElBihiry.

"They [military police] ruthlessly beat him up, my friends and I refused to leave without Amr. A high ranking officer calmed us down, and ordered a lower rank officer to release Amr, his face was severely injured. We all walked away together. But after we parted, we later found out that Amr and five others were arrested.

"Everyone was later released except Amr, he was accused of possessing a pistol. I can affirm that Amr had no weapon in his possession , otherwise military officials would not have released him in the first place," she said.

source

He's getting five years for this. Hopefully he gets released soon.

An in Libya it's been confirmed that Libyan troops have captured three Dutch soldiers who were on a secret mission to evacuate civilians last Thursday in an area near Sirte. Not sure what the fallout from this will be - they're still being held captive somewhere, so would that be grounds to mount a rescue mission? (or rather, what is the probability of the Dutch government authorizing one?)

# ? Mar 3, 2011 08:26

SauceNinja: Nov 8, 2002; Knock Knock.
Who's There?
You're Fired.

UltraShame posted:

"we don't want foreign money" stuff

So I just want to be clear on this. They want help for this kind of thing but they don't want your help because you're a dirty foreigner? So you subvert their narrow mindedness by covertly giving to them. That's hilarious, not to mention, very big of you. I wish I could say I was as altruistic but I think I'd feel like I'd be promoting idiocy instead of helping hungry children.

edit: Did anyone see this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/mar/02/libya-gaddafi-speech-book-burning#/?picture=372261030&index=12

I loving surrender.

SauceNinja fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Mar 3, 2011

# ? Mar 3, 2011 08:27

Radio!: Mar 15, 2008; Look at that post.

UltraShame posted:

edit: backtracked and realised the original guy was talking about Egypt, not Libya, whoops. But still donate to MSF if you want to help in situations like these.

I was just looking for anything, really. I only thought of April 6 because AJE did another program on them earlier today and it made me curious. I did end up donating to MSF, though.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 08:36

UltraShame: Nov 6, 2006; Vocabulum.

SauceNinja posted:

So I just want to be clear on this. They want help for this kind of thing but they don't want your help because you're a dirty foreigner? So you subvert their narrow mindedness by covertly giving to them. That's hilarious, not to mention, very big of you. I wish I could say I was as altruistic but I think I'd feel like I'd be promoting idiocy instead of helping hungry children.

If what was posted in translation was true,the people soliciting donations explicitly stated that they did not want any "foreign money," then that's what they want. The quote was "reject foreign finances" which is different, and I assume means large backers, but I guess the history and veracity of who is saying what will bear that out.

If you are really saying that people should not promote a profoundly and historically neutral oragnisation like MSF because it may help the people they are concerned about, because that is "subversion" doesn't make sense to me.

The guy who asked was making sure his money was going to a good cause, I don't think offering an alternative is so offensive, especially one like MSF.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:13

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Live blogs
BBC
Guardian
AJE

Maps
BBC's Key Maps of Libya

Guardian morning round up

quote:

Good morning, welcome to continued coverage of the uprising in Libya. We'll also attempt to keep you up to date with protests in other countries in the region. Here's a summary of the latest developments.

Muammar Gaddafi is reported to have accepted an offer from Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez to mediate between the Libyan leader and his opponents. The proposal is believed to be under consideration by the Arab League.

Libyan authorities are holding three Dutch soldiers arrested when they tried to evacuate a Dutch citizen from the city of Sirte, east of Tripoli, the Dutch defence ministry said today.

Anti-Gaddafi forces are braced for more counterattacks by troops loyal to the Libyan leader after a day of intense clashes in the eastern oil town of Brega yesterday when they repelled Gaddafi's fighters. At at least 10 rebels were killed in the fighting.

Spain has became the latest European country to offer help to refugees, saying it would send a plane loaded with humanitarian aid to the Tunisian-Libyan border today. A mass airlift of Egyptian refugees from the Libyan-Tunisian border to Cairo involving British, French and Tunisian planes began last night.

For monitoring Twitter

cioxx posted:

This is the best site for monitoring twitter, for those who don't know.
http://twitterfall.com/
Just plug in #tripoli or #libya and watch the stream come through. You can do exclusions and all kinds of neat things.

You can also exlude retweets using the drop down boxes on the top right. Reduces the amount of old information that gets repeated, and saves confusion.

For monitoring aircraft unable to land at Tripoli

Monkeytime posted:

Here's an interesting site that lets you monitor global air traffic:
http://www.flightradar24.com/

# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:50

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

More information of Chavez and the Dutch soldiers:

quote:

A Venezuelan peace plan for Libya that would involve "friendly countries" mediating between Gaddafi and his opponents is being mooted as providing a possible way out of the conflict this morning. Al-Jazeera's Dima Khatib is reporting that Gaddafi has accepted the offer from Hugo Chavez. Khatib also says Venezuelan government sources told her that the secretary general of the Arab League, Amr Moussa, has accepted the mediation proposal but Moussa told Reuters he had not yet agreed to the plan but "it is still under consideration".

It is also clearly being taken seriously by the international markets, as the oil price fell $3 (�1.84) on the news.

Details of the proposal remain somewhat vague at the moment. Venezuela's foreign minister Nicolas Maduro told the state-run AVN news agency that diplomacy rather than military threats should be employed to end the conflict:

quote:
Hopefully in the coming days we could create a committee of friendly countries that go to talk with the government of Colonel Gaddafi as well as the opposition that his taken up arms in some regions.

quote:

Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid, reporting from the eastern city of Benghazi on how the offer of mediation from Venezuela will be received by the opposition in Libya, says:

quote:
The only mediation they will consider is to find an exit strategy for Gaddafi and his family and all his close aides. They said there is no time anymore for dialogue. Mediation, unless it's with an exit strategy, will be quite difficult.

quote:

More on the Dutch soldiers being held in Libya (see 7.29am). The three soldiers were arrested on Sunday, when they tried to evacuated a Dutch citizen from the city of Sirte, one of Gaddafi's few remaining strongholds, the Dutch defence ministry said today.

The three were surrounded by armed men after landing near Sirte in a Lynx helicopter that was on board the navy ship HMS Tromp, which is anchored off the Libyan coast to help evacuations from the conflict torn country, spokesman Otte Beeksma told The Associated Press. He said Dutch officials are in "intensive negotiations" with Gadhafi's government to secure the marines' release, adding:

quote:
"We have also been in contact with the crewmen involved. They are doing well under the circumstances and we hope they will be released as quickly as possible."

Some info on the situation in the East:

quote:

Rebels in Ajdabiyah, about 75km from Brega, are bolstering their defences after yesterday's air attacks on both towns. Reuters reports that men are armed with rocket launchers, anti-tank aircraft guns and tanks:

quote:
Some rebel soldiers showed more enthusiasm than experience at handling arms, struggling under the weight of the rounds or working out how to use more advanced weapons, determined to hold their ground in Ajdabiyah, home to a military arms dump...

At one entrance to Ajdabiyah, rebels worked through the night to consolidate defences, adding rocket launchers, anti-tank weapons and anti-aircraft guns. Rebels also manned three tanks.

"Praise God we have weapons," said rebel fighter Drees Abdulwahid, 42, smiling and raising both hands to the sky.

Another rebel fighter said he had four days training in how to use an anti-aircraft gun. Others struggled to load the belts of 10-inch long bullets into the weapon. One young man staggered under the weight of the belt.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:52

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Brega just got bombed again, sounds like it was pretty ineffective:

quote:

Brega has come under air attack again, according to a report on Reuters:

quote:
"I heard the plane, then the explosion then saw the crater," said Mohammed Shibli in Brega, saying the bomb landed near the university for oil engineering which is about 2 km (1 mile) from the oil exporting terminal.
"There was an air strike about an hour and a half ago. I saw it with my own eyes," said Awadh Mohammed, a volunteer with the rebel forces.

[edit] The BBC is reporting that the airport in Brega is being bombed.

[edit 2] and also this:

quote:

Reuters also reports an air attack against rebel positions at Ajdabiyah.

quote:

@SaeedCNN‎ Tribal leader says 2 bombs dropped on military camps in Ajdabiya 30 mins ago

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Mar 3, 2011

# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:57

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

The LibyaFeb17.com website now has it's own forums. Expect a pro-Gaddafi forum invasion that involves lots of thread being posted in the wrong forums, and lots of posts being made in the wrong thread, until everyone gets banned.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:59

quadratic: May 2, 2002; f(x) = ax^2 + bx + c

SauceNinja posted:

So I just want to be clear on this. They want help for this kind of thing but they don't want your help because you're a dirty foreigner? So you subvert their narrow mindedness by covertly giving to them. That's hilarious, not to mention, very big of you. I wish I could say I was as altruistic but I think I'd feel like I'd be promoting idiocy instead of helping hungry children.

What are you getting worked up about? That statement was from the website of a grassroots political organization. They don't want foreign funding because accepting it could open them up to accusations of foreign influence.

I have no idea how you decided they actually meant KEEP EGYPT FREE OF FILTHY FOREIGNER MONEYS :argh:

# ? Mar 3, 2011 10:30

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

More battle related news

quote:

Airstrikes have been launched against Brega and Adjabiyah today, both of which came under fire from Gaddafi forces yesterday, an opposition fighter has told Reuters.

quote:
Rebel Captain Bashir Abdul Gadr, speaking outside Brega, said: "Gaddafi's forces are at Ras Lanuf, there are many of them. Our forces are in Brega and al-Ugayla."
He added: "There have just been air stikes in Brega at the airport and in Ajdabiya on our forces at the western gate."

Sounds like the pro-Gaddafi forces are preparing for an attack.

[edit] There's reports coming through of forces moving from Ras Lanuf toward Brega.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Mar 3, 2011

# ? Mar 3, 2011 10:30

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# ? May 21, 2024 22:35

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

In non-Libya news:

quote:

The Egyptian president Ahmed Shafiq has resigned. His departure was announced on the Facebook page of the Egyptian military.

Shafiq has been under pressure to go because of his links to the deposed dictator Hosni Mubarak, who appointed him before stepping down as president. He will be replaced by Essam Sharaf, who will have responsibility for appointing a new cabinet.

Essam Sharaf was a former Minister of Transport who resigned from the government 3 years ago in protest against corruption, and took part in the protests. Apparently he's quite respected among the people, so hopefully this is a good sign.

# ? Mar 3, 2011 10:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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