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Mr. Safe posted:And I forgot to consider that he's probably not originally from Libya anyway. was also opposed by many Germans, but millions also swore by him at the height of his craze and were eager to kill their own people. People are cute when they give their lives for crazy dictators.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 21:09 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 13:28 |
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More info on todays battle:quote:AP has more on the battle between pro- and anti-Gaddafi forces in Brega, reporting that at least 10 rebel fighters were killed and 18 wounded.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 21:10 |
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Forget Jews, imperialists and Al-Qaeda: if I have learned anything from these protests it's that the dogs are the cause of everyone's problems and we should unite against them.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 21:27 |
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Nenonen posted:If the anti-Gaddafi folks haven't had time to organize themselves into a mass movement in Tripoli, then it's too late for it now, May I ask why?
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:05 |
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Brown Moses posted:More info on todays battle: This is just a taste of what will happen if/when Gaddafi tries to hold onto Tripoli by military force. Cool picture of revolutionaries on a tank in Ajdabiya, Libya.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:11 |
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Paradox Personified posted:May I ask why? I mean that once the government has started reacting to the unrest in force, it becomes more difficult to recruit more people for the cause due to curfews etc., while the pro-government factions can spread their own pro-CG, anti-protester propaganda. It's questionable if that is effective, but it suffices for the government's purposes if the people don't know what's really going on and stay at homes.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:27 |
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Apology posted:Don't count Sudan out of the fighting yet: I think you're confusing things. South Sudan has voted 99% for separation from Sudan a month ago and they will be an independent country in July. They have their own autonomous government and army (SPLA which has fought against the north Sudanese arabs for decades) and "general" Athor is just a rogue rebel leader who wants to cause trouble for.. political gain I guess? Thing is, it's a separate issue from the protests in North Sudan, which is a different country by this point.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:40 |
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Yeah, it's a complicated situation. My understanding of it is that General Athor is pro-secession, but anti-SPLA, the de-facto government of South Sudan. There was some attempt to bring him into the fold through the cease-fire the article talks about (his forces were also given amnesty and were supposed to lay down their arms), but there was apparently an attack by someone in early february. Athor claims the SPLA attacked his bases, but the SPLA claims that Gen. Athor attacked them and massacred civilians. Whatever actually did happen resulted in hundreds of deaths. I won't simplify it by saying one side is good and one is bad, but I wouldn't necessarily believe Athor's story.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 22:49 |
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From various news reports it sounds like Brega has loads of rebels streaming into it, so it'll be even harder to capture now.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 23:08 |
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Apology posted:There's clearly something I'm not understanding about the Saudi succession. Why can't King Abdullah declare Prince Sultan incompetent and name someone else? And if that wouldn't work due to factions, etc., why can't King Abdullah force Prince Sultan to name his chosen successor and pass the crown to Sultan's choice? IDGI. Thank you for that article. Though I realized how old Sultan is, I had no idea he was an Alzheimer's sufferer. That puts the Saudi "pass the throne from brother to brother" thing in an even starker highlight. I mean, their entire ruling generation is over 80. In any event, Sultan's relatives (including his son, American favorite Prince Bandar) are extremely powerful, and Abdullah doesn't want to piss off his nephews by stripping Sultan of his succession, particularly because Sultan is next in line by tradition (and one of the Sudiari Seven, like Abdullah).
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 23:11 |
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Brown Moses posted:From various news reports it sounds like Brega has loads of rebels streaming into it, so it'll be even harder to capture now. Logistical support is going to be a bitch though. The rebels have the ability to mobilize popular support, what they need is the ability to organize and fund an army/populace.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 23:11 |
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the walkin dude posted:Wow, this picture makes the Teabaggers (gogo corporate-sponsored "revolutions") look even more shameful than they already are. They even manage to have better English skills too, for crying out loud.
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# ? Mar 2, 2011 23:12 |
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Is it a completely stupid idea to email the April 6 movement directly and ask if there's a way people can donate or something to help out? I know there was some talk of donations for Egypt awhile back, but I think that was going to be through the military and I don't remember hearing about it since. It'd be nice to be able to help out, even a little. Note: there might be information about this on their Arabic website, but I can't read Arabic and their English site is awful.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 01:39 |
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Radio! posted:
Do you have the link for their Arabic site? They may have more info there.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 02:08 |
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I really have to thank the guys like Brown Moses for keeping this thread up to date. Ya'll are doing a fantastic job. It's been said but it's worth repeating.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 02:45 |
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http://6april.org/ Here you go! edit: seconding the thanks to Brown Moses. You are awesome.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 02:45 |
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Radio! posted:http://6april.org/ Ok, on the right-hand side of their page, a ways down, it says: "To donate to the April 6 youth We ask you to communicate through this email: info@6april.org" It's the same one they have under their contact info. I imagine that they can receive and respond to emails in English if they've set up their English site. e: Who knows who the individuals who set up this website are, though. I imagine that they're not striking canal or textile workers. Ramms+ein fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 03:38 |
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Looks like they haven't set up the "about us" section of their English website yet. Sorry for the quick translation. Who Are we? A group of Egyptian youth of all ages and persuasions who got together over the course of a whole year after the renewal of the April 6th hope of the possibility of a social action in Egypt in which the youth could participate, in all of the groups and strata of society, in all parts of the country, in order to emerge from our crisis and to reach a democratic future that overcomes the current state of obstruction of political, economic and social horizons at which our nation has stopped. Most of us did not come from a political background, and most of us did not work in a political or public capacity before April 6, 2008, but we were able to secure our connection to each other and define our direction by means of working together throughout that year. [quote=] من نحن؟ مجموعه من الشباب المصرى من مختلف الاعمار و الاتجاهات تجمعنا على مدار عام كامل منذ أن تجدد الامل يوم 6 ابريل 2008 فى إمكانية حدوث عمل جماعى فى مصر يساهم فيه الشباب مع كافة فئات و طبقات المجتمع فى كافة انحاء الوطن من أجل الخروج به من ازمته و الوصول به لمستقبل ديمقراطى يتجاوز حالة انسداد الآفاق السياسيه و الاقتصاديه والاجتماعيه التى يقف عندها الوطن الآن لم يأت اغلبنا من خلفيه سياسيه ما و لم يمارس اغلبنا العمل السياسى أو العمل العام قبل 6 ابريل 2008 و لكننا استطعنا ضبط بوصلتنا و تحديد اتجاهنا من خلال الممارسه اثناء ذلك العام. [/quote] Ramms+ein fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 04:11 |
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Radio! posted:Is it a completely stupid idea to email the April 6 movement directly and ask if there's a way people can donate or something to help out? I know there was some talk of donations for Egypt awhile back, but I think that was going to be through the military and I don't remember hearing about it since. If you don't mind ending up on a government watchlist, you may want to consider donating to http://www.islamicreliefusa.org/egypt-crisis They have a 4-star rating from Charity Navigator for whatever that's worth. (They've got a Libya campaign as well http://www.islamicreliefusa.org/libya)
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 05:15 |
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quadratic posted:If you don't mind ending up on a government watchlist This is the saddest. Thanks for the info, though! I will definitely send some money their way and try to convince my friends to do the same. Ramms+ein posted:Ok, on the right-hand side of their page, a ways down, it says: Thank you for looking this up. I probably won't end up donating to them at the moment since there seems to be a better option, but hopefully it will be useful for other people to know.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 05:31 |
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Radio! posted:Thank you for looking this up. I probably won't end up donating to them at the moment since there seems to be a better option, but hopefully it will be useful for other people to know. Their Arabic "about us" page says: quote:نعتمد على إشتراكات وتبرعات أعضاء الحركة كمصدر اساسى للتمويل، و نرفض التمويل المالى الخارجى Which I'd translate as "We rely on memberships and donations from members of the movement as the main source of financing, and we reject foreign financing." (Their emphasis.) Still, they may be able to direct you to other organizations...
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 05:57 |
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Just wanted to point out that Thomas Friedman is the biggest moron in the entire history of the world. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/opinion/02friedman.html
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:23 |
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Nonsense posted:Just wanted to point out that Thomas Friedman is the biggest moron in the entire history of the world. He really, really is. quote:ISRAEL The Arab TV network Al Jazeera has a big team covering Israel today. Here are some of the stories they have been beaming into the Arab world: Israel’s previous prime minister, Ehud Olmert, had to resign because he was accused of illicitly taking envelopes stuffed with money from a Jewish-American backer. An Israeli court recently convicted Israel’s former president Moshe Katsav on two counts of rape, based on accusations by former employees. And just a few weeks ago, Israel, at the last second, rescinded the appointment of Maj. Gen. Yoav Galant as the army’s new chief of staff after Israeli environmentalists spurred a government investigation that concluded General Galant had seized public land near his home. (You can see his house on Google Maps!) This surely got a few laughs in Egypt where land sales to fat cats and cronies of the regime that have resulted in huge overnight profits have been the talk of Cairo this past year. When you live right next to a country that is bringing to justice its top leaders for corruption and you live in a country where many of the top leaders are corrupt, well, you notice.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:29 |
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Nonsense posted:Just wanted to point out that Thomas Friedman is the biggest moron in the entire history of the world. At least he's not going on about caliphates. And how the hell does someone equate giving up your freedom and getting a decent government? He's talking about China too so I don't even know what the hell led to that connection.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:35 |
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Nonsense posted:Just wanted to point out that Thomas Friedman is the biggest moron in the entire history of the world. quote:“Hmmm, let’s see. He’s young. I’m young. He’s dark-skinned. I’m dark-skinned. His middle name is Hussein. My name is Hussein. His grandfather is a Muslim. My grandfather is a Muslim. He is president of the United States. And I’m an unemployed young Arab with no vote and no voice in my future.” This parody is equally plausible http://inanities.org/2011/03/this-is-just-the-start-and-it-never-loving-ends/
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 06:37 |
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Heran Bago posted:I really have to thank the guys like Brown Moses for keeping this thread up to date. Ya'll are doing a fantastic job. It's been said but it's worth repeating. This. I don't have internet access at work and you guys are giving me lots of useful links to read when I get home. I feel like I have a good grasp of what is happening because of this thread. Thanks, guys!
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 07:36 |
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Xandu posted:This parody is equally plausible This is great. PS: Congrats on the modship! quadratic fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 07:40 |
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Thanks! Saleh says he's agreed to a plan to step down by the end of the year (or rather to reach "a framework for his eventual exit"). I give him less than a week. Slightly optimistic, but I just don't see a way out of this for him. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704005404576176742973494216.html posted:SAN'A, Yemen—Yemen's president and opposition members agreed to a deal late Wednesday that opponents said gives the president until year's end to work out a framework for his eventual exit and that would rule out handing down power to his son.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 07:53 |
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Anderson Cooper's interview with a Gaddafi-supporting "government spokesman" (I didn't catch the name as I turned it on late, but it wasn't his son) was absolutely cringeworthy. The guy being interviewed by AC looked like he had his nuts in a vice.quote:Which I'd translate as "We rely on memberships and donations from members of the movement as the main source of financing, and we reject foreign financing." (Their emphasis.) edit: backtracked and realised the original guy was talking about Egypt, not Libya, whoops. But still donate to MSF if you want to help in situations like these. UltraShame fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 08:06 |
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In Egypt the Supreme Military court has jailed an activist after charging him with assaulting a public official on duty and breaking curfew. quote:Elbihiry was arrested during the early hours of Saturday morning, in front of the Council of Ministers headquarters, at a peaceful demonstration demanding the resignation of Ahmed Shafiq, the interim prime minister. source He's getting five years for this. Hopefully he gets released soon. An in Libya it's been confirmed that Libyan troops have captured three Dutch soldiers who were on a secret mission to evacuate civilians last Thursday in an area near Sirte. Not sure what the fallout from this will be - they're still being held captive somewhere, so would that be grounds to mount a rescue mission? (or rather, what is the probability of the Dutch government authorizing one?)
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 08:26 |
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UltraShame posted:"we don't want foreign money" stuff So I just want to be clear on this. They want help for this kind of thing but they don't want your help because you're a dirty foreigner? So you subvert their narrow mindedness by covertly giving to them. That's hilarious, not to mention, very big of you. I wish I could say I was as altruistic but I think I'd feel like I'd be promoting idiocy instead of helping hungry children. edit: Did anyone see this? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/mar/02/libya-gaddafi-speech-book-burning#/?picture=372261030&index=12 I loving surrender. SauceNinja fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 08:27 |
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UltraShame posted:edit: backtracked and realised the original guy was talking about Egypt, not Libya, whoops. But still donate to MSF if you want to help in situations like these. I was just looking for anything, really. I only thought of April 6 because AJE did another program on them earlier today and it made me curious. I did end up donating to MSF, though.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 08:36 |
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SauceNinja posted:So I just want to be clear on this. They want help for this kind of thing but they don't want your help because you're a dirty foreigner? So you subvert their narrow mindedness by covertly giving to them. That's hilarious, not to mention, very big of you. I wish I could say I was as altruistic but I think I'd feel like I'd be promoting idiocy instead of helping hungry children. If what was posted in translation was true,the people soliciting donations explicitly stated that they did not want any "foreign money," then that's what they want. The quote was "reject foreign finances" which is different, and I assume means large backers, but I guess the history and veracity of who is saying what will bear that out. If you are really saying that people should not promote a profoundly and historically neutral oragnisation like MSF because it may help the people they are concerned about, because that is "subversion" doesn't make sense to me. The guy who asked was making sure his money was going to a good cause, I don't think offering an alternative is so offensive, especially one like MSF.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:13 |
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Live blogs BBC Guardian AJE Maps BBC's Key Maps of Libya Guardian morning round up quote:Good morning, welcome to continued coverage of the uprising in Libya. We'll also attempt to keep you up to date with protests in other countries in the region. Here's a summary of the latest developments. For monitoring Twitter cioxx posted:This is the best site for monitoring twitter, for those who don't know. For monitoring aircraft unable to land at Tripoli Monkeytime posted:Here's an interesting site that lets you monitor global air traffic:
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:50 |
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More information of Chavez and the Dutch soldiers:quote:A Venezuelan peace plan for Libya that would involve "friendly countries" mediating between Gaddafi and his opponents is being mooted as providing a possible way out of the conflict this morning. Al-Jazeera's Dima Khatib is reporting that Gaddafi has accepted the offer from Hugo Chavez. Khatib also says Venezuelan government sources told her that the secretary general of the Arab League, Amr Moussa, has accepted the mediation proposal but Moussa told Reuters he had not yet agreed to the plan but "it is still under consideration". quote:Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid, reporting from the eastern city of Benghazi on how the offer of mediation from Venezuela will be received by the opposition in Libya, says: quote:More on the Dutch soldiers being held in Libya (see 7.29am). The three soldiers were arrested on Sunday, when they tried to evacuated a Dutch citizen from the city of Sirte, one of Gaddafi's few remaining strongholds, the Dutch defence ministry said today. Some info on the situation in the East: quote:Rebels in Ajdabiyah, about 75km from Brega, are bolstering their defences after yesterday's air attacks on both towns. Reuters reports that men are armed with rocket launchers, anti-tank aircraft guns and tanks:
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:52 |
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Brega just got bombed again, sounds like it was pretty ineffective:quote:Brega has come under air attack again, according to a report on Reuters: [edit] The BBC is reporting that the airport in Brega is being bombed. [edit 2] and also this: quote:Reuters also reports an air attack against rebel positions at Ajdabiyah. quote:@SaeedCNN Tribal leader says 2 bombs dropped on military camps in Ajdabiya 30 mins ago Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:57 |
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The LibyaFeb17.com website now has it's own forums. Expect a pro-Gaddafi forum invasion that involves lots of thread being posted in the wrong forums, and lots of posts being made in the wrong thread, until everyone gets banned.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 09:59 |
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SauceNinja posted:So I just want to be clear on this. They want help for this kind of thing but they don't want your help because you're a dirty foreigner? So you subvert their narrow mindedness by covertly giving to them. That's hilarious, not to mention, very big of you. I wish I could say I was as altruistic but I think I'd feel like I'd be promoting idiocy instead of helping hungry children. What are you getting worked up about? That statement was from the website of a grassroots political organization. They don't want foreign funding because accepting it could open them up to accusations of foreign influence. I have no idea how you decided they actually meant KEEP EGYPT FREE OF FILTHY FOREIGNER MONEYS
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 10:30 |
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More battle related newsquote:Airstrikes have been launched against Brega and Adjabiyah today, both of which came under fire from Gaddafi forces yesterday, an opposition fighter has told Reuters. [edit] There's reports coming through of forces moving from Ras Lanuf toward Brega. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 10:30 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 13:28 |
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In non-Libya news:quote:The Egyptian president Ahmed Shafiq has resigned. His departure was announced on the Facebook page of the Egyptian military.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 10:42 |