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Talks via Chavez are a no go:quote:Rebels have refused an offer of talks with Col Gaddafi, al-Jazeera reports. The chairman of the newly formed National Libyan Council has reportedly rejected the concept of talks entirely. quote:The rebel national Libyan council in Benghazi has said it will accept nothing less that than Gaddafi's exit, and that of all his family and close aides, according to al-Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid, which seems to rule out Venezuela-brokered mediation talks. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 11:01 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 16:49 |
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quote:The anti-Gaddafi transitional council has asked the UN for permission to bomb the mercenaries, al-Arabiya TV says.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 11:24 |
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A bit more on the new Egyptin PM:quote:The new Egyptian prime minister, Essam Sharaf, sounds like he could represent a genuine break from the Mubarak regime, despite being a former minister himself. From Ahram online (thanks to @Snarkos in the comments section for the tip-off):
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 11:56 |
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The ICC just announced who is being investigated for various crimes:quote:Three of Gaddafi's four sons, Saif al-Islam, Khamis Muammar and Mutassim, and Musa Kusa, are among those who will be investigated by the International Criminal Court, according to al-Arabiya (via @SultanAlQassemi). It also names:
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 12:06 |
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For Gaddafi government to consider negotiating with the rebels means 1) they are desperate, and 2) they are out of touch with reality
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 12:13 |
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Narmi posted:An in Libya it's been confirmed that Libyan troops have captured three Dutch soldiers who were on a secret mission to evacuate civilians last Thursday in an area near Sirte. Not sure what the fallout from this will be - they're still being held captive somewhere, so would that be grounds to mount a rescue mission? (or rather, what is the probability of the Dutch government authorizing one?) In my estimation it is extremely unlikely that the Dutch government will do anything of the sort. They are probably embarassed as poo poo that they got some of their soldiers caught on the soil of a sovereign country that they are not at war with and entered illegally. Expect a lot of diplomatic posturing.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 12:21 |
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More from Egyptquote:@Olemars, in the comments section, has an interesting point about the Egyptian prime minister's resignation:
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 12:24 |
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I'm honestly sad Shafik's resigned as Prime Minister, he might have done a good job. Don't know a lot about Essam Sharaf, and they'll have to form a new government now.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 12:24 |
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I missed this early, but Mubarak will be questioned about corruption.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 12:40 |
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Another mysteriously inaccurate bombing in Brega:quote:A little more information from Brega about this morning's air strikes, via AFP: Fattah al-Moghrabi, director of supplies for Brega hospital, said a bomb was dropped in an area between the oil company and the residential part of the town. No-one was hurt, he said. quote:The airstrike in Brega today did not inflict any casualties, the Associated Press reports: Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 12:48 |
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I guess we can theorize maybe some of the pilots are missing on purpose? Or is it normal for people to be this inaccurate with whatever model of plane/bomb they're using?
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 13:17 |
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Pureauthor posted:I guess we can theorize maybe some of the pilots are missing on purpose? Not necessarily on purpose, but I bet they don't have a huge incentive to actually hit anything. From the pilots point of view getting there and dropping the bombs on first pass wherever is the safest bet. Least chance of getting hit by ground fire, least chance of getting shot as traitor when they return, least chance of getting shot by the rebels if they happen to win the war. The equipment is also old, must be in pretty rough shape and quality of pilots is probably dubious so even if they wanted, hitting anything meaningful would be a crapshoot.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 13:22 |
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I wonder if they've disabled the ejecting mechanisms so pilots can't bail out and join the rebels.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 13:25 |
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Afternoon recap from The Guardianquote:• Brega and Ajdabiya have reportedly been bombed by Gaddafi's forces as troops loyal to the Libyan leader continue their bid to reclaim towns and cities
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 13:33 |
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quote:BBC Monitoring has picked up an intruiging report from al-Libya TV, the state TV channel: it says a mind-boggling 37 billion sedative pills have been seized at a Libyan port. Col Gaddafi has publicly accused protesters and rebels of being under the influence of drugs brought into the country by al-Qaeda. That's about 6000 pills per person in Libya. If every pill weighed .01g that would be about 3,700 tonnes of pills, minus packaging. Also it's pretty impressive all those rebels dosed up with sedatives managed to fight off Gaddafi's forces in Brega. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:04 |
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Brown Moses posted:That's about 6000 pills per person in Libya. If these were purchased by Gaddafi in an attempt to provide evidence for his retarded "AL-QUEDA HALLUCINOGENIC RIOT DRUGS" claims, it will be the best thing ever.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:30 |
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I'd be surprised if they weren't.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:38 |
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Yes you see Al Queda somehow convinced half the Libyan populace to take 6000 sleeping pills each and then, while they were asleep and half dead, attacked them with dream magick turning them into Islamist zombies controlled by the western media.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:41 |
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Nuclear Spoon posted:I'd be surprised if they weren't. I'd be surprised if they actually exist.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:43 |
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That explains all those convoys of lorrys carrying shipping containers driven by men in big beards heading towards the east of the country.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:44 |
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Elliptical Dick posted:In my estimation it is extremely unlikely that the Dutch government will do anything of the sort. They are probably embarassed as poo poo that they got some of their soldiers caught on the soil of a sovereign country that they are not at war with and entered illegally. Expect a lot of diplomatic posturing. It's not illegal.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:45 |
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Earwicker posted:Yes you see Al Queda somehow convinced half the Libyan populace to take 6000 sleeping pills each and then, while they were asleep and half dead, attacked them with dream magick turning them into Islamist zombies controlled by the western media. Don't forget the CIA arming them.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:47 |
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Of all the drugs possible, why'd they choose sedatives to report them as?
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:48 |
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I bet they look like ecstasy pills with a crescent moon stamped into them.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 14:48 |
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Pureauthor posted:I guess we can theorize maybe some of the pilots are missing on purpose? Or is it normal for people to be this inaccurate with whatever model of plane/bomb they're using? It can't be ruled out, but if you just didn't want to hit something in Libya, you would jettison your munitions in the desert rather than intentionally dropping bombs close (and potentially killing some kid you didn't see). The more likely explanation is that these are poorly trained pilots using outdated equipment. Even the USAF misses their targets all the time (or in 2003, would hit British convoys), as missiles go stray or the target is misidentified. Libya has no precision guided munitions, so they must do with simpler stuff, like freefall bombs or older generation missiles. These can still be used for great effect, but require better training than 3rd world countries airforces usually have: the foremost mission is to be able to protect your own airspace, and Libyans have a poor track record with that (in the Egypt-Libya war of 1977 Egyptian air force raped them). They do have some experiences about air-to-surface bombings 20 years back, but they weren't too good at it even then. quote:The air force was extensively used in the fighting in Chad in the 1980s, in support of Libyan ground units. It was reported that many Libyan bombing raids were carried out at excessively high altitudes when met with anti-aircraft fire so the attacks did not play a decisive role.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 15:17 |
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That does make sense, especially now the rebels have AA guns.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 15:20 |
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The earlier resignation of the PM in Egypt has gone down well:quote:Opposition groups are considering calling off a million-man march planned for tomorrow after the prime minister resigned (see 9.37am) and a former minister who joined the protests against Mubarak was asked to form a new government by the military, Al-Masry Al-Youm reports:
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 16:00 |
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Not only did the rebels win the Battle of Brega, they also captured loads of enemy soldiers:quote:A hundred soldiers loyal to Colonel Gaddafi were taken prisoner by rebels in the town of Brega yesterday, AFP news agency reports. "We have taken many prisoners, not less than one hundred," said a spokesman for the rebels, in Benghazi. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Mar 3, 2011 |
# ? Mar 3, 2011 16:17 |
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Brown Moses posted:The earlier resignation of the PM in Egypt has gone down well: That's a great sign. Still a lot of work to do and a lot that could go wrong but it's really encouraging to see the different "sides" really listening to each other (or at least seeming to)
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 16:18 |
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This should be good:quote:Reuters has just posted this: I fully expect this to be amazingly insulting to the people of Libya.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 16:50 |
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Bit more:quote:More from Reuters on the Venezuela proposal: quote:And more on the Venezuelan proposal from Reuters: But on the otherhand: quote:Reporting from Benghazi, the BBC's Lyse Doucet tweets: "Heard some anxious Libyans at HQ National Council Benghazi saying some family members being picked up in Tripoli".
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 16:58 |
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Brown Moses posted:I fully expect this to be amazingly insulting to the people of Libya. For him to enter in talks would mean he'd have to acknowledge what's happened so fan. Anything less would be an insult. Also the Libyan people have rejected the offer for talks since he proposed it, so Chavez's offer is kinda pointless.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:03 |
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Now the ICC is involved I don't see how Gaddafi and his family won't end up there if anything that's acceptable to the rebels is proposed.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:05 |
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Why the hell would the opposition want to have anything to do with Chavez or Venezuela? They know he just be looking out for Gaddafi's interests no matter what he says. What did Chavez ever have to offer anyone in the region, even Gaddafi, besides solidarity in America-hate? Also, what's the currently accepted term for the non-Gaddafi side? It seems to have gone from 'Protesters' to 'Opposition' to 'Rebels'. Are people still saying 'Rebels'?
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:21 |
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I think people are waiting until they stop being Protestors and become 'Rebels' because that'll open a whole new level of hurt on Gadaffi in terms of Non-International Armed Conflicts and Article 3 rights.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:24 |
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ibroxmassive posted:It's not illegal. It's illegal to send military forces into a country you are not at war with. It's far more complex than that, obviously, but that's the short version.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:24 |
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breaklaw posted:Also, what's the currently accepted term for the non-Gaddafi side? It seems to have gone from 'Protesters' to 'Opposition' to 'Rebels'. Are people still saying 'Rebels'? Yeah I'd say they are rebels now. Once you get to the point of using tanks and artillery it's not really a "protest" anymore, it's a war - or at least, a rebellion.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:33 |
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Chade Johnson posted:It's illegal to send military forces into a country you are not at war with. It's far more complex than that, obviously, but that's the short version. From what I've been told and what I've read, it's not illegal for State A to use proportionate and limited force to enter the sovereign territory of State B with the intent to save or protect citizens of State A. Operation Entebbe being the prime example.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:35 |
Hob_Gadling posted:From the pilots point of view getting there and dropping the bombs on first pass wherever is the safest bet. Tell that to Havermeyer. He always gives the gunners below all the time they need to set their sights and take their aim and pull their triggers or lanyards or switches or whatever the hell it is they pull when they want to kill people they don't know.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:45 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 16:49 |
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ibroxmassive posted:From what I've been told and what I've read, it's not illegal for State A to use proportionate and limited force to enter the sovereign territory of State B with the intent to save or protect citizens of State A. Military legality is an incredibly murky issue and usually in the end it doesn't really matter what is said on paper.
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# ? Mar 3, 2011 17:57 |