Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Few bits from Twitter:

quote:

Libyan rebels armed with rocket-propelled grenades and traveling in speedboats fired on Libyan ships off the Mediterranean coast.

quote:

@NicRobertsonCNN: As journalists' convoy is leaving Zawiya, we see a new army moving in: clean up crews in orange overalls

quote:

@BaghdadBrian: This morning foreign security contractors /experts make light of journalists fears about security in #benghazi no way #gaddafi can take it

quote:

@jenanmoussa Just spoke to a fighter on the frontline in #Ajdabya, he says: civilian casualties piling up, exact nbs not clear.

quote:

jenanmoussa: The fighter in #Ajdabya tells me rebels are holding up in the eastern part of the city. #Gaddafi troops mainly at the western gate. #Libya

# ? Mar 16, 2011 16:54

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# ? May 21, 2024 23:26

Lustful Man Hugs: Jul 18, 2010

quote:

We haven't punished even the terrorists who we captured. We captured a big number of them. Did we exclude them? Torture them? Kill them? No... All the time we focus on a small number, the naughty, noisy people. We like them. They are sexy. But the majority, they are not very interesting. We should listen to the millions of people, the voice of millions. All the time we want to listen to 30 people here, 1,000 here, 100 here. I told you we have thousands of atheists who don't believe in God Almighty, even God. They say 'we don't believe in God, let alone Mr Gaddafi.

Um... what? This is the weirdest thing ever. They are sexy? Are the Gaddafis sure it isn't them who have taken hallucinogenic drugs?

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:00

pwnyXpress: Mar 28, 2007

Xandu posted:

Hezbollah, Moqtada al-Sadr, and Iran have all condemned the Bahrain crackdown. Makes me wonder if one of them will interfere.

edit: oh geez, the Bahraini government is describing their operation as a cleansing

DAMMIT

Stupid westerners can't get it up when it really matters, when we could show the people of the ME we actually care about them rather than their oil. Now we've dicked around too much and the extremists are going to be the ones to step up and foster friendships with them. At points like this, as sad as it may be, it seems it might be better for the evil dictators to prevail to prevent the further radicalization of the whole area.

I HATE MY STUPID GOVERNMENT

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:08

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

pwnyXpress posted:

At points like this, as sad as it may be, it seems it might be better for the evil dictators to prevail to prevent the further radicalization of the whole area.

No, God-loving-Dammit, this stupid loving logic trap is how we got into this mess in the first place.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:11

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

@ChangeInLibya #Tripoli is now officially relying on shipments and reserves for fuel. City has less than 30% of what it normally needs #libya #feb17

That might explain why the rebels stole the oil tanker yesterday, and the other reports of rebels using boats to harass shipping.

Nic Robertson of CNN has ventured out of Benghazi to have a look at what's actually happening.

quote:

@NicRobertsonCNN On outskirts pf Ajdabiya, massive Army presence: 1000's soldiers, dozns trucks w/all kinds ammo, tanks, heavy armour -- waiting to roll in

quote:

@NicRobertsonCNN At our request, going to front lines today.. intense firefight on outskirts of #al Brega..

quote:

@NicRobertsonCNN #Govt in control of #Brega. Rebels fled so fast left food and blankets at roadside. Clearly were firefights on highway.

quote:

@NicRobertsonCNN RETWEETING TO CLARIFY EARLIER TWEET RE BREGA: should read SIGNS OF INTENSE FIREFGHT outskirts Brega SEV DAYS AGO -NOT TODAY.

quote:

@NicRobertsonCNN: On road from Brega to Ajdabiya, see occsnl signs of destryd rebel vehcls here and there, small villages sm mostly untouchd.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:12

bringer: Oct 16, 2005; I'm out there Jerry and I'm LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT

pwnyXpress posted:

DAMMIT

Stupid westerners can't get it up when it really matters, when we could show the people of the ME we actually care about them rather than their oil. Now we've dicked around too much and the extremists are going to be the ones to step up and foster friendships with them. At points like this, as sad as it may be, it seems it might be better for the evil dictators to prevail to prevent the further radicalization of the whole area.

I HATE MY STUPID GOVERNMENT

That has been the mindset of your stupid government for the longest time. That oppressive dictatorships now are better than the threat of radicalization later.

Support the people. They don't innately hate every American, it's not genetic. It's because of poo poo like this, where you value the safety and stability of your life over their freedoms, that causes anti-Americanism (let's be honest about what you mean by radicalization).

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:14

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

What is China and Russia's deal with the no fly zone anyway? Why are they against it so much?

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:22

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

bringer posted:

That has been the mindset of your stupid government for the longest time. That oppressive dictatorships now are better than the threat of radicalization later.

Seriously people, Dictator's don't prevent radicalization, they loving cause it. They crush all internal dissent, the most peaceful types first and most easily, until all discontent is focused and controlled by only the most fuckhat crazy extremist sons of bitches.

Just look at loving Iran if you want to see the endpoint for this stupid loving idea of dictators keeping the area under control. The US helped SAVAK butcher every type of opposition group until the only ones left were the militant religious extremists, who were able to pick up and lead the now incredibly pissed off remnants of the other ideological groups.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:24

Benagain: Oct 10, 2007; Can you see that I am serious?; Fun Shoe

The Cheshire Cat posted:

What is China and Russia's deal with the no fly zone anyway? Why are they against it so much?

At a guess, Ghadaffi's been heavily lobbying them with promises of cheaper oil and they can see that the tide's turned against the protestors for now. China also doesn't want to be seen interfering in democracy revolts for their own reasons.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:25

HJE-Cobra: Jul 15, 2007; Bear Witness; Hell Gem

I have been a bit more informed about the Bahrain situation than I may have seemed. We've had lots of meetings and email alerts about it all the time at work, and me and my co-workers discuss it plenty in the office. I check the US Embassy's website pretty often nowadays and stuff, too. So I'm not TOTALLY uninformed.

But prior to coming here, I certainly didn't know much about Bahrain. I don't speak the language, too, so that doesn't help much. I'll try to stay out of trouble, anyway.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:30

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Few more bits on Twitter:

quote:

@NicRobertsonCNN On western outskirts Ajdabiya: soldiers say rebels fire RPGs, then hide in civilian houses, making more difficult to go in & fight them

quote:

@feb17voices : AJA: #gaddafi forces say they bombed Benghazi airport #feb17 #libya

quote:

@feb17voices They didn't hit the airport..2 bombs were dropped outside of the airport...They actually hit a cemetery close by..#Libya #Feb17

quote:

@ChangeInLibya: The fight RIGHT now is occurring from western gates of Ajdabiya, all the way to Brega, and some unrelated clashes in Sirte.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:33

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Update from AJA:

quote:

Al Jazeera Arabic reporter has just given this live update regarding the situation in the east:

1. Gaddafi forces cornered (with tanks and APC) in Ajdabiya. We spoke to some eyewitness who said that 36th battalion had pushed forward and was able to move closer to the eastern entrance.
2. Reports from eyewitnesses are saying that some of the soldiers had defected and fled into the city of Ajdabiya where they changed their clothes to mingle with people and not be detected
3. On western gates of Ajdabiya there are no clashes but only an exchange of tank rounds etc to prevent Gaddafi troops from entering
4. Southern entrance has witnessed no movement of Gaddafi forces into the city
5. Benghazi has not witnessed any pro-Gaddafi troops moving into it, all the neighbouring areas are with the revolutionaries and all the tribes here are raising the independence flag calling for the toppling of Gaddafi. Gaddafi and Saif�s speeches yesterday and today are an attempt from the regime to weaken the resilience of people. It�s psychological and media warfare only. This is also confirmed by Saif trying to scare people saying that everything will end in 48 hours.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:43

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

ChaosSamusX posted:

Um... what? This is the weirdest thing ever. They are sexy? Are the Gaddafis sure it isn't them who have taken hallucinogenic drugs?

Huh, I don't know how that would make sense even if you counted the 'sexy' thing as being a lost in translation kind of thing. Let me try to dissect that ramble.

"We haven't punished even the terrorists who we captured. We captured a big number of them. Did we exclude them? Torture them? Kill them? No..."

So the above part is talking about the rebels, okay...

"All the time we focus on a small number, the naughty, noisy people. We like them. They are sexy."

I can only assume that by 'we' he doesn't mean himself but the audiences of international media, and sexiness means media sexiness. Or something like that.

"But the majority, they are not very interesting. We should listen to the millions of people, the voice of millions."

So by saying that the majority is not very interesting, he talks about media's interests and how they should be listening to the masses.

"All the time we want to listen to 30 people here, 1,000 here, 100 here. I told you we have thousands of atheists who don't believe in God Almighty, even God. They say 'we don't believe in God, let alone Mr Gaddafi."

So these naughty, sexy people are just a vocal minority of drug-abusing atheists. It's hard to follow, but there seems to be some kind of underlying logic. Just not a very coherent presentation. It's like listening to my mother in law.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 17:56

Dr Kool-AIDS: Mar 26, 2004

Nenonen posted:

"All the time we focus on a small number, the naughty, noisy people. We like them. They are sexy."

I can only assume that by 'we' he doesn't mean himself but the audiences of international media, and sexiness means media sexiness. Or something like that.

No, he's saying the media covers the words and actions of a vocal minority because it makes for a "sexier" (less boring) story. Essentially he's once again blaming the rebellion on media sensationalism.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 18:06

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Here's a great article I found that describes how the protest in Bahrain are not strictly about Sunni-Shia divisions.

quote:

Describing a pro-government demonstration in Bahrain last week, Michael Slackman wrote in the New York Times that it was an affluent crowd, very different from the mostly low-income Shia who were protesting against the government. "The air was scented with perfume, and people drove expensive cars," he said.

While local and international media talk repeatedly about Bahrain's sectarian divide, demonstrators on both sides insist there is Shia-Sunni unity. So what, exactly, is going on?

First, some facts. The majority of Bahrainis � about 70% � are Shia, and the majority of pro-reform/anti-government demonstrators at the Pearl Roundabout are Shia. It is true, also, that Bahrain is ruled by a Sunni royal family, and that the majority of participants at pro-government rallies appear to be Sunnis.

This is not to say that all Bahraini Sunnis are rich or that being Shia is always synonymous with being poor. As many commentators will point out, Bahrain is home to economically powerful Shia families and high-ranking Shia government officials.

But the facts of the matter speak for themselves. Corruption, crony capitalism and a lack of transparency add up to uneven development and a vast disparity in wealth. By and large, Bahrain's Shia are losing out in the country's economic boom.

What this reflects, to a large extent, is the success of the Bahraini regime's strategy to deal with challenges to its legitimacy by promoting and reinforcing identity politics within a system of privileges where certain groups and individuals are favoured over others. In a word: discrimination.

So the Shia represent the majority of pro-reform, anti-government protesters because they are the majority of the population, but also because the government actively discriminates against them.

Meanwhile, Bahrain's rulers, the majority of the government, military, and business leaders are Sunni. Bahrain's political, social and economic system operates by offering privileges and wasta to some, at the expense of the rights of others. In this way, the government maintains a separation between Bahrain's communal groups (Baharna, Arab, Howala, Ajam, Asians) and discourages citizens from associating with each other on a national basis � which has posed a real challenge to the regime in the past.

This "divide and rule" policy was developed by the Al Khalifa and its allies after they settled in Bahrain in the 18th century, appropriated land from the indigenous Shia owners and effectively made them into peasants. Even then, the regime operated with the assistance of a number of Shia families who it employed as ministers or tax collectors. Still today, high-ranking government positions are disproportionately awarded to members of the Al Khalifa family, or other Sunni allies, and a few handpicked Shia representatives are given positions of power.

Continuing a discriminatory tradition set by imperial Britain during Bahrain's time as a British protectorate (when police were recruited from British-colonised India), the regime today relies on defence from imported mercenaries, while Bahraini Shia are denied the right to serve in their own armed forces.

Another form of discrimination is electoral gerrymandering. In past elections, the Shia-dominated northern governorate of more than 91,000 voters elected nine members of parliament. In the Sunni-dominated southern governorate only 16,000 voters elected six members.

This is in addition to the detention of hundreds of Shia protesters last year, and the arrest of 23 Shia citizens charged with forming a "terror network" to overthrow the government. The 23 � many of them members of the Haq Movement of Liberties and Democracy (an opposition group that boycotts elections) � were charged under the widely criticised anti-terror law. They were eventually released last week in a concession to the current uprising, confirming suspicions that the case was politically motivated.

Bahrain's sectarian divide therefore stems from economic disparity and the denial of civil rights.

A better way to understand the current uprising is as a movement for civil rights and liberties. The demands are for transition from a system of privileges for a few at the expense of the many towards a system of greater rights for all. That is presumably why the Shia-dominated "cannot-haves" of the anti-government, pro-reform crowds appear to have crossed the sectarian rift and drawn in Bahrainis from a range of political platforms including liberals, secularists and human rights activists.

This is not to say that there are no sectarian elements within both the anti-government camp and the pro-government rallies. But at this point there appears to be a broader call for less economic disparity and more rights, which has to some extent managed to cut through the religious boundaries. A good illustration of the class element is the position of the affluent upper-middle class "Nido" youth. While some are part of the Pearl Roundabout pro-reform opposition, many more have woken from their apolitical reverie to support the pro-government movement, complaining that the protesters do not represent "the Bahrain we know" � and of course they don't.

In terms of conciliatory gestures by the government, what Bahrain needs now is not publicity stunts by the government and its privileged supporters proclaiming "unity". This is little more than a PR exercise to sideline the issue of a deeply flawed and potentially failing political system.

It has been a long winter of discontent in the wider Middle East; and the sweeping changes this spring have not escaped Bahrain's imagination. The outcome right now looks uncertain, but one thing is sure: it is not the demands of the pro-reform protesters at Pearl Roundabout but the Bahrain government's rule by repression and discrimination that is pushing this country towards a "sectarian abyss".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/03/bahrain-sunnis-shia-divided-society

# ? Mar 16, 2011 18:40

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Here is a video, which makes me flash back to what must of happened to the guy in Tianamen who tried to stop those tanks, of an unarmed man yelling allah akbar apparently getting :nms:

shot

in Bahrain.

Also

quote:

the New York Times has said four of its journalists are missing in Libya:
Anthony Shadid, the Beirut bureau chief and twice winner of the Pulitzer Prize for foreign reporting; Stephen Farrell, a reporter and videographer who was kidnapped by the Taliban in 2009 and rescued by British commandos; and two photographers, Tyler Hicks and Lynsey Addario, who have worked extensively in the Middle East and Africa.

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/four-new-york-times-journalists-are-missing-in-libya/

# ? Mar 16, 2011 18:52

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Sinteres posted:

No, he's saying the media covers the words and actions of a vocal minority because it makes for a "sexier" (less boring) story. Essentially he's once again blaming the rebellion on media sensationalism.

That's precisely what 'media sexiness' means, but I guess the term isn't widely used in English.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 18:57

Zappatista: Oct 28, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

Shageletic posted:

Here's a great article I found that describes how the protest in Bahrain are not strictly about Sunni-Shia divisions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/03/bahrain-sunnis-shia-divided-society

While no saint or beacon of democracy himself, Manuel Noriega wrote in his autobiography that he learned to recognize protest groups by the sounds of the pots and pans they'd use as noisemakers- anti-government demonstrators would be clanging expensive aluminum and copper pots and pans.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 19:01

Dr Kool-AIDS: Mar 26, 2004

Nenonen posted:

That's precisely what 'media sexiness' means, but I guess the term isn't widely used in English.

Oops. Yeah, that was me being dense.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 19:09

quadratic: May 2, 2002; f(x) = ax^2 + bx + c

Jut posted:

not without an exit visa. You're pretty much a prisoner there unless your company decide to let you leave

Not in Bahrain. At least not for Americans.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1001.html#entry_requirements

# ? Mar 16, 2011 19:35

J33uk: Oct 24, 2005

Clinton just gave an interview to CNN saying that only the security council can authorize action and that any international effort would have to involve Arab states contributing. With the Russian and Chinese delegations unlikely to support intervention I think that the rebels in Libya are pretty much on their own.

Edit: Alright, no need to panic. Obama has just announced his decision on how to move forward. http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0311/and_while_youre_at_it_10a933e0-ae86-46e2-a12d-c4ac679bef74.html

J33uk fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Mar 16, 2011

# ? Mar 16, 2011 20:02

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Bit of news from AJE about the fighting in Libya:

quote:

More on the fighting in Ajdabiyah, where Reuters reports that "weary" government soldiers returning from the front lines told journalists that they were meeting "renewed resistance" from the rebels.

The rebels, meanwhile, appear confident of turning the tide, warning of "surprises".

"The fighting is fierce. His supply lines are stretched so he can't push on from Ajdabiyah. We've got some surprises in store. We're going to fight on and we're going to win," said Mustafa Gheiriani, a rebel spokesman in Benghazi.

Reinforcements from Benghazi are said to be heading to Ajdabiyah to help rebels there.

Witnesses describe a violent government crackdown from the city.

Idris Omar says he saw government soldiers kill his neighbour when they entered the town on Tuesday.

"They stopped his car and saw the flag sticker. They asked, 'what's this?' He replied, 'the flag of Libyan independence'. Then they shot him dead," Omar told Reuters.

A Reuters correspondent reported seeing 50 government trucks loaded with food, weapons and petrol parked along a coast road near the city, along with a number of tanks and empty tank carriers returning from the front.

Rocket launchers, armoured personnel carriers and about 20 ambulances were also seen along the highway.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 20:14

Jamsque: May 31, 2009

So after getting boxed in by the initial swell of the uprising, CQ has now counter-attacked too aggressively. It'll be interesting to see if he sends reinforcements East from Tripoli or feels he needs them all to keep the people suppressed on his doorstep.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 20:21

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

The Red Cross have withdrawn from Benghazi all the way to Tobruk.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 20:26

Crackpipe: Jul 9, 2001

I'm sure we'll finally decide to really, for serious think about doing something in Libya a week after the last rebel-held city falls. I know it's a bit more complicated than playing Civ 5 or something, but they've had weeks and weeks and weeks to do something.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 20:31

Earwicker: Jan 6, 2003

Crackpipe posted:

I'm sure we'll finally decide to really, for serious think about doing something in Libya a week after the last rebel-held city falls. I know it's a bit more complicated than playing Civ 5 or something, but they've had weeks and weeks and weeks to do something.

The problem is no one wants to do it unilaterally or without certain partners involved, and getting the right group of nations involved in doing it is what takes so long. I wouldn't trust the US to go in alone, and probably neither do many Arab states.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 20:33

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

Crackpipe posted:

I'm sure we'll finally decide to really, for serious think about doing something in Libya a week after the last rebel-held city falls. I know it's a bit more complicated than playing Civ 5 or something, but they've had weeks and weeks and weeks to do something.

If they actually do anything that requires effort or picking a side to support, they won't later be able to claim they were neutral but that they were always rooting for whichever faction wins.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 20:33

pwnyXpress: Mar 28, 2007

bringer posted:

That has been the mindset of your stupid government for the longest time. That oppressive dictatorships now are better than the threat of radicalization later.

Support the people. They don't innately hate every American, it's not genetic. It's because of poo poo like this, where you value the safety and stability of your life over their freedoms, that causes anti-Americanism (let's be honest about what you mean by radicalization).

You're right, and I didn't think through completely what I was writing there. Mostly I'm just venting my frustration with the government for not acting more quickly when that debate was less of an issue in people's minds. I believe we could have had the safety and stability as well as their freedoms. The longer we wait it out, the more it seems to become an issue of one or the other. I personally certainly support the revolutionaries in their cause, and value liberty over my own comfort. However, my wife, her family, my family, and most of the people I live around tend toward the other spectrum and view me as a radical, discounting whatever argument I may make to persuade them otherwise. I was more reflecting on what I see to be the general view than my own.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 20:56

Lustful Man Hugs: Jul 18, 2010

What about the plan being drawn up by UK, France and Lebanon? They sounded pretty serious about doing it (Also, it would be a trilateral plan, which is much better than a unilateral one).

Of course, this could just be more empty rhetoric.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:00

davebo: Nov 15, 2006; Parallel lines do meet, but they do it incognito; College Slice

Slantedfloors posted:

If they actually do anything that requires effort or picking a side to support, they won't later be able to claim they were neutral but that they were always rooting for whichever faction wins.

But wouldn't a bunch of nations agreeing (especially the U.S.) to support one side pretty much dash any hopes the Ghaddafi forces had of winning and prompt most of them to jump ship? As many defectors as they've had so far, I can only imagine how many would switch sides just seeing American planes zooming by.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:02

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

davebo posted:

But wouldn't a bunch of nations agreeing (especially the U.S.) to support one side pretty much dash any hopes the Ghaddafi forces had of winning and prompt most of them to jump ship? As many defectors as they've had so far, I can only imagine how many would switch sides just seeing American planes zooming by.

Obviously. But no one is going to make the first move and scream out "HOT drat, LET'S WHOOP SOME GHADAFFI rear end" and risk no one else doing the same. So the smart money is not doing anything, or making some token complaints about "keeping it peaceful" or "ensuring the safety of civilians" and then just making deals with whoever eventually takes power.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:06

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

ChaosSamusX posted:

What about the plan being drawn up by UK, France and Lebanon? They sounded pretty serious about doing it (Also, it would be a trilateral plan, which is much better than a unilateral one).

Of course, this could just be more empty rhetoric.

It's a potential resolution for the UNSC, so it still has some obstacles to cross before it gets passed.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:10

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

Interesting article on the Guardian about the mood in Benghazi.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/16/benghazi-braces-battle-libya-endgame

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:31

Cartouche: Jan 4, 2011

Earwicker posted:

The problem is no one wants to do it unilaterally or without certain partners involved, and getting the right group of nations involved in doing it is what takes so long. I wouldn't trust the US to go in alone, and probably neither do many Arab states.

Agreed. On one hand I want for more "local" countries to act rather than sticking our (USA) necks out once again, but it really feels like a deer-caught-in-headlights inaction all around. Frustrating as all hell. Not to mention I'd like to hand-of-god them across the collective faces and point with great gusto at Japan. Kind of like, "OK WE WILL NOW BE FLATTENING YOUR PALACE WITH YOU IN IT GADAFI, WE HAVE MORE PRESSING MATTERS WITHOUT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT YOUR SORRY rear end OVER THERE."

Some major poo poo going down around the globe, and a whole poo poo ton of "hmmm, hrmmm, hmmm".

Angst. I am feeling angst.

Cartouche fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Mar 16, 2011

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:35

Namarrgon: Dec 23, 2008; Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

New Division posted:

Interesting article on the Guardian about the mood in Benghazi.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/16/benghazi-braces-battle-libya-endgame

Wait the kamikaze pilot in Tripoli was not real?

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:35

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Namarrgon posted:

Wait the kamikaze pilot in Tripoli was not real?

There were claims earlier that two of his sons were badly injured in the attack, Khamis was reported as being in a critical condition, so if either of them show up soon and looking unburnt then it's possibly untrue.

Few other bits from live blogs:

quote:

Updates from Misurata now, where pro-democracy fighters say they are holding their ground against an assault by pro-Gaddafi troops.

"The fighters have defeated Gaddafi's forces from the southern and western side (of the city)," a resident, who gave his name as Mohammed, told Reuters by telephone.

"The shelling on the city stopped and the rebels have captured some tanks. The battle is continuing on the eastern side, but it is not a heavy one."

Residents say that pro-Gaddafi forces had begun pounding the city at about 7:00am local time with tanks, artillery and rockets.

"They are trying to enter the city. I do not think they will be able to do it, at least not today," a pro-democracy fighter said.

State television meanwhile appealed to the people of Misurata to support pro-Gaddafi security forces.

quote:
The armed forces are from you and for you. Avoid strife ... This is a call for stability and security for everybody. Do not listen to provocation and avoid discord."

quote:

Pro-democracy activists say they have taken control of the Anwar Afriqiya oil tanker, a ship carrying 25,000 tons of fuel, in the waters off Tobruk. [Picture: AFP]

quote:

Al Jazeera Arabic
Eyewitness from Tripoli called in and reported the hearing of very heavy gunfire from within the military college. The eyewitness also reported that screams could be heard with the words �no no!� being extremely audible.

quote:

Al Jazeera Arabic is reporting from revolutionaries that 3 helicopters manned by defected pilots bombarded Gaddafi�s forces which were based on the outskirts of east Ajdabiya today.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:42

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Here's a VERY :nms:

video of corpses that show unusual skin burns some people are claiming as proof that Gaddafi used chemical weapons in Misarata:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nNdpk0239w

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:46

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

Namarrgon posted:

Wait the kamikaze pilot in Tripoli was not real?

Of course not. It was from a rebel radio station broadcasting stuff intended to bolster morale. The reporters on the ground in Benghazi covering the revolt for the Wall Street Journal have mentioned these broadcasts in their coverage, but a lot of their stuff is behind a paywall. But if you have access, here ya go.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704662604576202821789052208.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:47

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Brown Moses posted:

Here's a VERY video of corpses that show unusual skin burns some people are claiming as proof that Gaddafi used chemical weapons in Misarata:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nNdpk0239w

quote:

This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy on shocking and disgusting content.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:49

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# ? May 21, 2024 23:26

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Here it is on Facebook:
:nms:

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150211199272907 :nws:

Some people think its white phosphorus burns.

# ? Mar 16, 2011 21:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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