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How long do these UN votes take?
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Mar 17, 2011 20:19
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Some news on Palestine: Mahmoud Abbas is maybe going to visit Gaza to promote reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah. Meanwhile, Hamas supporters beat up a bunch of students at a Fatah-affiliated university.quote:Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, has said he is willing to visit the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip in an effort to promote reconciliation between the rival Fatah and Hamas factions. source Tarnek posted:Huge rallies in Benghazi right now on AJE. People singing, shooting in the air, throwing shoes on the screen of Gaddafi, who continues spewing threats; it makes me believe the rebels have a good chance in this. I'd have thought by now they'd have learned (or been told) to stop wasting ammo by firing in he air. e: In Lebannon, people are holding a rally for Hezbollah to lay down their arms. quote:Hezbollah urged to lay down weapons source Hezbollah is widely condemned as a terrorist group (their flag has a hand holding an AK-47) that wants to destroy Israel, giving the justification to attack Lebanon like they did a few years back, so hopefully this is the beginning of the end for them Narmi fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 20:22
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Interesting analysis by AJE: Gaddafi essentially shot himself in the foot by making an extremily threatening speech to Benghazi, and that the attacks will begin tonight. It signals desperation and will be fuel for the supporters of a no-fly zone in the UN security council. These next hours might get interesting. About 2 hours until a vote. Tarnek fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 20:25
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So I'm guessing the next few hours at the UN will be focused on behind the scenes stuff trying to figure out the Russian and Chinese positions, since everyone else seems to have reached the tipping point.
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Mar 17, 2011 20:26
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e: ^^^ It sounds like instead of voting against the popular opinion, they may just abstain from the vote all together. Strictly heresay, though. Overheard it on AJE. It seems like the siege on Benghazi is going to commence before or shortly after the No Fly Zone vote. Are the military resources ready to scramble the minute the vote passes, if it passes? Otherwise the NFZ is going to be pretty much pointless if they aren't ready for another 2 days.
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Mar 17, 2011 20:34
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Sivias posted:It seems like the siege on Benghazi is going to commence before or shortly after the No Fly Zone vote. Are the military resources ready to scramble the minute the vote passes, if it passes? Otherwise the NFZ is going to be pretty much pointless if they aren't ready for another 2 days. I think I heard on AJE that the military would be ready within hours of the vote passing. Let's hope they can live up to that...
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Mar 17, 2011 20:35
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http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE72G2A020110317?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0 posted:France, the only country to recognise the interim rebel council in Benghazi, believes there is enough support for the resolution to pass and military intervention could take place within hours of that, senior French diplomatic sources said.
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Mar 17, 2011 20:38
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Isn't there already an American aircraft carrier in the Med? I was under the impression they kept one around in that area. France has one, too, of course.
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Mar 17, 2011 20:43
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Earlier today Gaddafi threatened to attack civilian ships and planes in the mediterranean if the there is outside military intervention. Perhaps other nations are realising that it would be in their own interest to remove this madman from power. He might just pull through with some of his threats. This threat even managed to finally overtake the Japan nuclear debacle for top news on some Swedish media, which is saying something. Tarnek fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 20:52
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I hope he does try some fool hearted attack on international security forces. It will be arguably ineffective (he can hardly overpower small armed civilians, what could he do against an aircraft carrier?) and give the international community even more cause to get this twat out of power.
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Mar 17, 2011 20:59
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All of last month there was barely any fighting going on at night and now the biggest operation of the whole conflict is supposed to go down in the middle of the night? Yeah right. It's just Gaddafi trying to scare people by telling them his troops are going to come in while they sleep. The assault on Benghazi will not happen before tomorrow morning, I am sure.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:03
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I doubt many will be sleeping anyway. There is no surrender at this point. No one in Benghazi can really claim they weren't with the opposition, so this so called 'amnesty' and 'mercy' is taken with a grain of salt. This is their last stand.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:06
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Can a person with more skills show us a map with the latest control colours? Would be interesting to see before the siege.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:24
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Powdered Toast Man posted:Isn't there already an American aircraft carrier in the Med? I was under the impression they kept one around in that area. France has one, too, of course. The Enterprise is within range, I believe.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:28
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Narmi posted:Hezbollah is widely condemned as a terrorist group (their flag has a hand holding an AK-47) that wants to destroy Israel, giving the justification to attack Lebanon like they did a few years back, so hopefully this is the beginning of the end for them They were formed to respond to Israeli aggression in Lebanon. Israel only pulled out of southern Lebanon in 2000 and attacked again 6 years later.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:35
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Narmi posted:There's talk that Denmark is preparied to go in on a no-fly zone without a UN mandate. There was talk that one Danish party (the Red Greens) want give the rebels stinger missiles so that they could defend themselves instead of having to rely on western intervention. Yes, lets give Muslim rebels some missiles to shoot at aircraft... That just can not fail.. What I am wondering is how all these countries that normally do not like us Euro/US are now screaming for military intervention. Here in Norway the news are mostly about a fictional threat to us from Japan, followed by stories of Norwegians being in Japan, again followed by news of missing / dead tsunami victims. We then get sports and stock market news and then we are over on the news about the REVOLTs... I really do not 'get' reporters..
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Mar 17, 2011 21:36
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Because we normally intervene without clear reasoning. This time its pretty altruistic, especially if we dont go nation building afterward.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:40
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Warcabbit posted:The Enterprise is within range, I believe. From the 3rd, it's been chilling at the top of the Red Sea, but it can be moved pretty quick. The USS Ponce (amphibious transport dock) and USS Kearsarge (800 Marines and helicopter carrier) are in the area.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:41
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Chade Johnson posted:They were formed to respond to Israeli aggression in Lebanon. Israel only pulled out of southern Lebanon in 2000 and attacked again 6 years later. I get why Hezbollah exists, and I'm not trying to defend Israel, just pointing out that but their goals and the means they used to achieve those goals only serve to aggravate Israel (and by extension most western nations) and invite retribution. It's like how a few days ago someone killed those five Israelis, and Israel responded by announcing the plan to build more settlements. Hezbollah doesn't have the means to take on Israel, yet continue to carry out these insignificant attacks that label Lebannon as a whole as the aggressor.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:50
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quote:The Guardian Britain, France and the US, along with several Arab countries, are to join forces to throw a protective ring around the Libyan rebel stronghold of Benghazi as soon as a UN security council vote on military action is authorised, according to security council sources. At which point Gaddafi will be so hosed. I look forward to his next speech. There's also reports that China and Russia plus 3 other states are planning to abstain from the vote as well.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:53
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PsychoLordling posted:Here in Norway the news are mostly about a fictional threat to us from Japan, followed by stories of Norwegians being in Japan, again followed by news of missing / dead tsunami victims. We then get sports and stock market news and then we are over on the news about the REVOLTs... What I hate the most is when news channels obsess over a singular story, the worst example of this being the WTC terror attacks. Yes, we get it, the towers collapsed, you have been covering it for 72 hours straight. Even though people do want to be informed of big events, there should always be a balance - no single story can be that important. But it's the audiences who force the media's hand: you don't give enough time to the breaking breaking Godzilla news, your audience will watch a channel that covers it. No serious journalist gives a flying gently caress about Prince William, but they still have to cover it over and over and over again because their viewers love royal weddings.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:54
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Chade Johnson posted:They were formed to respond to Israeli aggression in Lebanon. Israel only pulled out of southern Lebanon in 2000 and attacked again 6 years later. Attacked in 2006 after Hezbollah fired rockets at various towns near the border and attacked soldiers, and then stole the bodies of the dead soldiers to use them as bargaining chips. It's not like we just randomly decided to attack those fuckers. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV Sure, just wanted to make that point. Don't Ask fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 21:55
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Please don't turn this thread into something about Israel.
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Mar 17, 2011 21:58
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Sivias posted:I hope he does try some fool hearted attack on international security forces. It will be arguably ineffective (he can hardly overpower small armed civilians, what could he do against an aircraft carrier?) and give the international community even more cause to get this twat out of power. The downside is the thought of collateral damage. It would be great if we could kindly ask for all non-Gadafi supporters to leave the vicinity of his stronghold, and simply flatten it. edit: including a few bunker busters to reach a bit underground. Cartouche fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 21:58
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Greyfox1625 posted:From the 3rd, it's been chilling at the top of the Red Sea, but it can be moved pretty quick. The French are talking about wanting to take action "hours" after the UN Resolution (assuming it's passed). That's pretty clear translation that significant assets have been put in place. NATO was probably getting everything together over the past week "just in case". Not to mention that the Med isn't that big to begin with, just have to do multiple refuelings. Kosovo & Iraq both had bombing missions flown by B-2's basing out of the US that took 30+ hours roundtrip.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:03
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Brown Moses posted:At which point Gaddafi will be so hosed. I look forward to his next speech. I understand the need for this, but I'm kinda torn on whether intervention too such an extent is a good idea. This is the kind of thing that, while done in Libyan's best interests, will undermine the whole "we can do this on our own" sentiment and will give the impression of foreign troops on the ground being necessary. I really hope it doesn't cause resentment later on as Libyans are asking for more/direct military help, but it's a possibility if the situation is mishandled. Personally, it just seems like a very delicate situation with a very narrow window between doing too much and doing too little. Unless they stick solely to protecting civilians and don't engage Gaddafi's forces, and don't interfere with the formation of whatever new government emerges, Arabs could view this as another Afghanistan or Iraq. e: It seems like Italy's in favour of a NFZ. e2: Actually, they said that they would let NATO use their bases almost a week ago, so this isn't really new news. Narmi fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Mar 17, 2011 |
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Mar 17, 2011 22:14
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I hope everyone who supports intervention know doesn't waver if one of those bombs misses and kills civilians, which is a quite plausible scenario. Brown Moses, do you know which other states are planning to abstain?
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Mar 17, 2011 22:17
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Simtex posted:The French are talking about wanting to take action "hours" after the UN Resolution (assuming it's passed). That's pretty clear translation that significant assets have been put in place. NATO was probably getting everything together over the past week "just in case". There was something on AJE a week or two ago saying there are British planes in Cyprus that could be in Libyan airspace in about half an hour. Anyone know where the nearest French bases are?
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Mar 17, 2011 22:23
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Narmi posted:I understand the need for this, but I'm kinda torn on whether intervention too such an extent is a good idea. This is the kind of thing that, while done in Libyan's best interests, will undermine the whole "we can do this on our own" sentiment and will give the impression of foreign troops on the ground being necessary. I really hope it doesn't cause resentment later on as Libyans are asking for more/direct military help, but it's a possibility if the situation is mishandled. They can't really do it on their own though. While reports have been conflicting the outcome is going to be really nasty with a lot more civilian deaths if nobody does anything. I just would much prefer people bitching about the west turning this in to another Iraq than compared to headlines about thousands upon thousands of people being purged after Gadaffi has bombarded the city in to rubble and slaughtered anyone who could potentially be a rebel.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:23
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Xandu posted:I hope everyone who supports intervention know doesn't waver if one of those bombs misses and kills civilians, which is a quite plausible scenario. Which is pretty much inevitable once Qaddafi starts engaging in the time honored tradition of sticking AA batteries and SAMs in civilian areas. There's still some small hope that things don't get to far before the remaining support for Qaddafi erodes. Sometimes even the threat of overwhelming force is enough.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:25
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Sending from my phone so I don't know how to put a link in but the Guardian is reporting that France and Britain already have assets in place (land, not carrier-based) so I'd imagine things will definitely be moving pretty drat fast once the resolution is passed. I'd love to know what kinds of backroom deals and negotiations have been going on over the past couple of weeks to get this set up.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:27
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Simtex posted:Which is pretty much inevitable once Qaddafi starts engaging in the time honored tradition of sticking AA batteries and SAMs in civilian areas. And since the UN resolution basically makes any miliary unit targeting civilians fair game, and since Ghadaffi's entire strategy is just blasting the poo poo out of rebelling cities with artillery, that makes his army a big fat target.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:27
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Xandu posted:Brown Moses, do you know which other states are planning to abstain? Nothing I've picked up on, there are rumours that Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar and UAE will be part of the no fly zone though.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:29
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NoneSuch posted:They can't really do it on their own though. While reports have been conflicting the outcome is going to be really nasty with a lot more civilian deaths if nobody does anything. I guess I should rephrase that: I wish that it wasn't necessary for foreign intervention, but I can't see them winning without it at this point, which is why I'm torn. I fully acknowledge that it's necessary, I just wish it wasn't. And I don't really care about people complaining that it'll turn into Iraq, I just hope it's carried out in a way that it doesn't.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:33
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Brown Moses posted:Nothing I've picked up on, there are rumours that Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar and UAE will be part of the no fly zone though. So what's the over/under on Ghaddafi and his family escaping to South America? At this point he's got to know it's up, even if he's loving insane.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:34
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Brown Moses posted:Nothing I've picked up on, there are rumours that Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar and UAE will be part of the no fly zone though. Who wants to bet that there's been a bit of quid pro quo deal making for that support. They give you an Arab stamp of approval while the west looks the other way in Bahrain, etc. Today a Libyans life is worth more than a Bahrainians. Funny world we live in.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:36
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Saudi Arabia helps regimes slaughter their civilians during the week and prevents dictators from slaughtering their civilians at the weekend.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:36
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:So what's the over/under on Ghaddafi and his family escaping to South America? At this point he's got to know it's up, even if he's loving insane. Pretty sure there's sanctions in place that are supposed to prevent him from flying. Even if Chavez would take the risk of UN action against Venezuela and accept him, he'll have no money and he'll be an international pariah. Also, he's afraid of flying.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:37
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Jamsque posted:Saudi Arabia helps regimes slaughter their civilians during the week and prevents dictators from slaughtering their civilians at the weekend. Libyans are Sunni, the Bahraini protesters are Shia. Pretty simple calculus if you're the Saudis.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:42
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redscare posted:Libyans are Sunni, the Bahraini protesters are Shia. Pretty simple calculus if you're the Saudis. Probably doesn't even enter the equation. The Saudis don't have a stake in Libya's future, they do in Bahrain's.
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Mar 17, 2011 22:43
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