|
Wow! Thanks for the quick details. I've heard Gadaffi's pretty nutty, but I can't imagine he's gonna be able to last through the rest of March when most his nation and the U.N. is against him.Vir posted:"loving FINALLY" - but they're also eager to see the Arab league countries and Islamic countries taking a more central role in the near future.
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 18:32 |
|
|
Stroh M.D. posted:Obama explicitly stated that there will be no manned flights above Libya. When? His statement earlier today only explicitly ruled out ground troops and the Pentagon briefer wouldn't comment on "future operations".
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:23
|
|
|
EatinCake posted:Does anyone (who has better knowledge on Libya, better connections, or better websites) know how they feel about the U.S. actually joining their fight? Initially they were against it, but after Gaddafi mobilized his forces they started asking for a NFZ, then bombing strategic targets. They were literally begging for western intervention two days ago, and didn't seem too particular where it came from. From the BBC: quote:2315: Residents of the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi have welcomed the air and missile strikes by the UN-mandated international coalition. Iyad Ali told the Reuters news agency: "We think this will end Gaddafi's rule. Libyans will never forget France's stand with them. If it weren't for them, then Benghazi would have been overrun tonight." Khaled al-Ghurfali added: "We salute, France, Britain, the United States and the Arab countries for standing with Libya. But we think Gaddafi will take out his anger on civilians. So the West has to hit him hard."
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:25
|
|
|
The Pentagon has said no US manned aircraft are operating over Libya at the moment, but they've haven't confirmed if it'll stay that way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:25
|
|
|
EatinCake posted:Wow! Thanks for the quick details. I've heard Gadaffi's pretty nutty, but I can't imagine he's gonna be able to last through the rest of March when most his nation and the U.N. is against him. Egypt, Tunisia, and Bahrain didn't push futures speculators to raise the price of gas by nearly a dollar per gallon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:25
|
|
|
AJ confirmed the arrival of Danish F-16 in Sicily and stated that they were scheduled for operation on Sunday, which I assume to mean tomorrow. Could be interesting.
Stroh M.D. fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Mar 20, 2011 |
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:27
|
|
|
Well I hope this works out in the favor of the Libyans. I hope it's over with quickly and that the violence stops with Gaddafi's downfall. I don't know if that will actually happen, which is what worries me. Gaddafi has proven that he's loving nuts and a genocidal maniac, though, so, even with the loss of life that's sure to occur (and has occured), I don't think it's a stretch to say that Gaddafi being in power would be worse. Good luck, Libya. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:27
|
|
|
t3ch3 posted:When? His statement earlier today only explicitly ruled out ground troops and the Pentagon briefer wouldn't comment on "future operations". Well dude fuckin loves drone strikes, so I imagine we'll see a big rise in those.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:28
|
|
|
Bad news, Libya no longer recongises the UN Resolution:quote:Libya's foreign ministry says it considers no longer valid UN Security Council resolution 1973, which called for a no-fly zone over Libya and demanded a ceasefire, the AFP news agency reports.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:29
|
|
|
Zophar posted:Egypt, Tunisia, and Bahrain didn't push futures speculators to raise the price of gas by nearly a dollar per gallon. This is dumb: the best way for the price of gas and oil to recover would be a quick Gaddafi victory.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:29
|
|
|
More details of targets hit tonight:quote:News is trickling in about the targets of tonight's attacks. Mohammed Ali, a spokesman for the exiled opposition group the Libyan Salvation Front, said the Libyan air force headquarters at the Mateiga air base in eastern Tripoli and the Aviation Academy in Misrata had both been targeted.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:30
|
|
|
Zophar posted:Egypt, Tunisia, and Bahrain didn't push futures speculators to raise the price of gas by nearly a dollar per gallon. To be fair, neither the Egyptian or Tunisian protesters asked for foreign aid (I don't think Bahrain did either but I'm not sure about that), while Libya did.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:30
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:This is dumb: the best way for the price of gas and oil to recover would be a quick Gaddafi victory. I never said it was a *smart* move.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:31
|
|
|
From the airtraffic FMCNL account:quote:Currently 6 USAFE F-15E from 494FS Lakenheath UK entering French coast heading #Libya for Operation Odessy Dawn c/s PANTHER 69 quote:3 USAF tankers joining up with the 6 USAFE F-15E Operation #Odyssey Dawn quote:Sorry, next USAF tanker just checking in, so it's 4 USAF tankers Operation #Odessy Dawn
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:32
|
|
|
Zophar posted:I never said it was a *smart* move. So your argument is what, exactly, let's lay out the causal chain you're thinking here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:32
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:So your argument is what, exactly, let's lay out the causal chain you're thinking here. Obama has to do something to respond to people bitching about gas prices and simultaneously doesn't want to be on the wrong side of history?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:33
|
|
|
EatinCake posted:Wait, so U.S. actually fired missiles at Lybia? Last I saw the Obama administration had just been sitting on the other side of the ocean giving the uprisings the thumbsup without any actual support. Not sure what to think about this development. I wouldn't necessarily say I have better knowledge of Libya than a lot of people posting here, but my feeling is of very heavy trepidation. The US bombing (and limiting to bombing, if the gods are with us) is the least worst choice out of an abysmal field of options. Do we let a democratic movement, one who has heroically sacrificed hundreds or perhaps thousands of people in the hope of a democratic society, get decimated and massacred by a despot that has single-handedly been a 30 year running spout for terrorism and civil wars? This seems to be the only sensible choice if we consider ourselves anywhere interested in the poo poo we talk about democracy, but so much can go wrong. And will go wrong. There are a billion unintended consequences (like for example rebels in a hundred different locales seeking to create civil wars in the hope of UN intervention) that are going to occur here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:34
|
|
|
quote:Khaled al-Ghurfali added: "We salute, France, Britain, the United States and the Arab countries for standing with Libya. But we think Gaddafi will take out his anger on civilians. So the West has to hit him hard." This has me worried. If this sentiment is echoed and the revolt is successful and fully backed with minimal casualties, that's one thing. Another thing is taking that statement to justify excuses of extreme brutality by rebel forces if the country is taken by them and they are not fully backed to whatever extremes of Western power they may think they deserve. In other words - "This purging wouldn't be necessary had "The West" hit them as hard as we had asked in the early hours of this revolution..." This might be swinging deeply into lose-lose territory.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:36
|
|
|
t3ch3 posted:When? His statement earlier today only explicitly ruled out ground troops and the Pentagon briefer wouldn't comment on "future operations". Maybe I misheard him. In any case, no flights are planned and there is no reason for manned American flights after the bulk of the fighting is over. They are probably just keeping their options clear if things somehow goes south.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:37
|
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:Wow, the Libyan rebels got an action movie hero to write their tweets. Sounds like the BR.USS Willis is in the AO.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:40
|
|
|
Stroh M.D. posted:In any case, no flights are planned and there is no reason for manned American flights after the bulk of the fighting is over. You also have no evidence that this is the case. The Pentagon statement was that "phase one" of the operation consisted of the removal of the air defense network, which they'll assess when there's sunlight above Libya before starting the next phase of the operation and they won't comment on the details of that or whatever plans are in place. There's no reason to assume, based on anything Obama or the Pentagon said today that the US will not be involved in manned operations over Libya.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:41
|
|
|
Stroh M.D. posted:AJ confirmed the arrival of Danish F-16 in Sicily and stated that they were scheduled for operation on Sunday, which I assume to mean tomorrow. Could be interesting. I expect Norwegian F-16s to be on station in Sicily on Tuesday. A Norwegian P-3 Orion marine surveillance plane, and C-130 transport planes may join. I think these F-16 have been upgraded for modern ground attack capabilities as well as air interception. Brown Moses posted:Bad news, Libya no longer recongises the UN Resolution: If I remember correctly, last night the same guy was translating a statement saying the resolution would be abided by - while still protesting against it - and this morning saying the resolution was void. And then there's the Zionist Al Qaida drug dealer stuff. The PR strategy seems to be "Say anything. See if anything sticks."
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:41
|
|
|
Hmm I'm running out of alcohol here and the gulf states aren't exactly overflowing with it so I'm calling it a night, gonna watch the local press tomorrow on whether or not there's some official sign of arab involvement. edit yeah they got the AM and later MLU upgrades
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:41
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Bad news, Libya no longer recongises the UN Resolution: It never existed in the first place. At the same time as Kadaffi held his speech about a cease-fire, his forces kept shelling Misrati and Benghazi. It was a ruse - and a bad one. Thank Twitter for that. This is one of the reasons the French hit as quick as they did. Any legitimacy Kadaffi had went out the window with that lie - which is also, by the way, a war crime in its own right.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:43
|
|
|
Man, the crazies (plants) are really starting to come out of the woodwork. From the BBC comments: quote:2303: Sami in Tripoli tells BBC Radio 5 live that the attacks by Western powers show a level of arrogance: "The West have lost their minds. In the 1970s, Libya was supporting [people in other] countries who were freedom fighters. They called us terrorism supporters. Now the terrorism is in Libya, and they're supporting [people who they] call them freedom fighters." quote:2333: Amin Ibrahim, from Ireland, writes: "Feel gutted with what's happening in Libya. Parents are Libyan and support Gaddafi all the way. America and Europe have no right to interfere with what's happening in the country!!" From AJE comments: quote:gaddafi defeated reagan already and he is defeating third generation of usa politics (obama) quote:@ True_African_Libya quote:Benghazi will burn! No airstrike will stop Libya's true leader.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:50
|
|
|
t3ch3 posted:You also have no evidence that this is the case. The Pentagon statement was that "phase one" of the operation consisted of the removal of the air defense network, which they'll assess when there's sunlight above Libya before starting the next phase of the operation and they won't comment on the details of that or whatever plans are in place. There's no reason to assume, based on anything Obama or the Pentagon said today that the US will not be involved in manned operations over Libya. Of course this is all conjecture on my part, and I may be proven wrong, but at this stage it would surprise me. A number of nations are already ready to pick up the slack on phase two or three (whatever they may be) in enforcing the NFZ, and the US long-range air arm is stretched thin as it is in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sure, there's the Enterprise cozing out in the Mediterranean, but why fly pointless flights when you all but promised the American people not to?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:50
|
|
|
Stroh M.D. posted:Of course this is all conjecture on my part, and I may be proven wrong, but at this stage it would surprise me. A number of nations are already ready to pick up the slack on phase two or three (whatever they may be) in enforcing the NFZ, and the US long-range air arm is stretched thin as it is in Iraq and Afghanistan. So they can test out some outrageously expensive hardware in a live situation! http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/03/libya-may-give-the-f-22-its-first-wartime-test quote:Speaking at a Senate budget hearing yesterday, Gen. Norton Schwartz, the Air Force’s chief of staff, said that the first phase of a campaign against Moammar Gadhafi’s aircraft would attack Libyan radar sites. That’s just as airmen with no-fly experience predicted to Danger Room. Taking down the radar sites, which direct Libyan air defenses, will require the use of radar-evading stealth jets. Enter the F-22 Raptor, Norton said, according to The Hill’s John Bennett.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:52
|
|
|
Stroh M.D. posted:It never existed in the first place. At the same time as Kadaffi held his speech about a cease-fire, his forces kept shelling Misrati and Benghazi. It was a ruse - and a bad one. Thank Twitter for that. Any legitimacy that the lunatic had went out the window when started slaughtering his own people. The man is certifiable. The blame for all of this lies on his zombie head.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:53
|
|
|
I'm going to bed in a second, so if anyone wants to see if evidence of the allged suicide attempt by Gaddafi appears you should keep an eye on this twitter account: http://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:54
|
|
|
AJE comments posted:I ask all of you, if you had an RPG and a person with a stick attacked you with the clear intent to kill you, will you say it's unfair to kill him with your RPG? I want some of what this individual is smoking.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 00:57
|
|
|
t3ch3 posted:So they can test out some outrageously expensive hardware in a live situation! To late for the F-22s now. It's an air superiority fighter and Libya hardly got an air force left. To be frank, the Norwegian and Danish F-16 AM/BM are better suited for what lies ahead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:01
|
|
|
Speaking of the F-22's, what type of squad gets those fighters? The best of the best?
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:04
|
|
|
Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:Any legitimacy that the lunatic had went out the window when started slaughtering his own people. The man is certifiable. The blame for all of this lies on his zombie head. I agree, but it would have complicated things a bit if he actually had upheld that cease-fire. Thankfully, he wasn't that smart. Thing is, by outright lying he disqualified himself as even a diplomatic contact. He's a war criminal now, a wanted man. He's not a world leader. He can't negotiate a surrender - unconditional is all that's left, and then it's off to the Hague to answer for his crimes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:05
|
|
|
Regnevelc posted:Speaking of the F-22's, what type of squad gets those fighters? The best of the best? Details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22#Operators All sorts of units actually, even the Air National Guard got a few. The F-22 was supposed to replace the F-15, much like the F-35 was supposed to replace the F-16. The senate killed that plan in -09. But the distribution remained surprisingly even.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:09
|
|
|
Stroh M.D. posted:I agree, but it would have complicated things a bit if he actually had upheld that cease-fire. Thankfully, he wasn't that smart. I think the suicide rumor is pretty dumb, but I don't see Gaddafi being taken alive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:11
|
|
|
Xandu posted:I think the suicide rumor is pretty dumb, but I don't see Gaddafi being taken alive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:12
|
|
|
Xandu posted:I think the suicide rumor is pretty dumb, but I don't see Gaddafi being taken alive. Funny, I have him pinned as a coward. Unstable? Sure. Crazy? No doubt. Willing to fight to death? Not...really. Like Saddam he will try to run, then hide and finally negotiate his way out of this mess. Something about dictators make them believe the world will treat them with silk gloves even after they're down and out. I think we will see a similar pattern here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:15
|
|
|
Stroh M.D. posted:Details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22#Operators That would be bad rear end to be in the air guard and fly an F22.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:15
|
|
|
Zophar posted:Obama has to do something to respond to people bitching about gas prices and simultaneously doesn't want to be on the wrong side of history? Gadhaffi is clearly unstable and is thus no longer a reliable ally. He was prized only for his ability to maintain order, and when that went, so did his value. No one is going to back a losing horse.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 18:32 |
|
|
Regnevelc posted:That would be bad rear end to be in the air guard and fly an F22. Assuming it didn't rain.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2011 01:23
|
|