Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Smug Guy: Dec 14, 2010; by Ozma

spasticColon posted:

So you are trying to rationalize a 3rd war because it's not technically in the Middle East? I guess I'm just the odd man out because I've become an non-interventionist when it comes to foreign policy. I just hope we the US does not send in ground troops.

No what I'm trying to say is that you're an idiot and have no idea what you're talking about because you can't even find a spot on a map before smudging your pudding covered finger over what it is you're talking about.

And because of this, no one should ever take whatever you have to say seriously because you're incapable of learning what it is you're talking about before spouting off about it.

You obviously haven't studied even the basics about this event or if the consideration of ground troups has been considered.

You don't know where this place is on a map. You don't know what options are on the table. Please don't interject into this conversation. I'm not so much trying to discredit you as I am trying to keep this conversation moving constructively.

Smug Guy fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Mar 20, 2011

# ? Mar 20, 2011 02:49

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# ? May 19, 2024 19:07

spasticColon: Sep 22, 2004; In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

Smug Guy posted:

No what I'm trying to say is that you're an idiot and have no idea what you're talking about because you can't even find a spot on a map before smudging your pudding covered finger over what it is you're talking about.

And because of this, no one should ever take whatever you have to say seriously because you're incapable of learning what it is you're talking about before spouting off about it.

Your Username/Avatar/Post combo pretty much sums it up. Call me an idiot all you want, I still think the US being a part of this is wrong.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 02:53

Zoph: Sep 12, 2005

Smug Guy posted:

No what I'm trying to say is that you're an idiot and have no idea what you're talking about because you can't even find a spot on a map before smudging your pudding covered finger over what it is you're talking about.

And because of this, no one should ever take whatever you have to say seriously because you're incapable of learning what it is you're talking about before spouting off about it.

You obviously haven't studied even the basics about this event or if the consideration of ground troups has been considered.

You don't know where this place is on a map. You don't know what options are on the table. Please don't interject into this conversation.

You're being a little hard on the guy, man. I agree that it's unreasonable to assume this will lead to a third war just like Iraq or Afghanistan but there's certainly an argument to be made that getting involved isn't in our best interest.

There's a lot of hostility in this thread.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 02:54

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

spasticColon posted:

Your Username/Avatar/Post combo pretty much sums it up. Call me an idiot all you want, I still think the US being a part of this is wrong.

If you also think the US being a part of Kosovo was wrong then you're absolutely entitled to your opinion. But if you think US involvement in Libya is wrong based entirely on Iraq and Afghanistan then you really don't understand the situation.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 02:55

Smug Guy: Dec 14, 2010; by Ozma

Zophar posted:

You're being a little hard on the guy, man. I agree that it's unreasonable to assume this will lead to a third war just like Iraq or Afghanistan but there's certainly an argument to be made that getting involved isn't in our best interest.

There's a lot of hostility in this thread.

Forgive me for being hard on a person who berates the condition of "The Middle East" on a location west of Naples.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 02:59

Sleng Teng: May 3, 2009

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

It's LF trying to troll GiP mod grover and it's totally hilarious and not bitter impotent whinging at all.

Nonetheless it is a good reminder that we can't really know for sure how things are going to turn out, and that authoritative statements on the outcome this early are a little silly.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:01

pylb: Sep 22, 2010; ^{"The superfluous, a very necessary thing"}

Just saw that a usually reliable and well informed french newspaper (Canard Enchaine) had published that France's intelligence agency (DGSE) had delivered 105mm canons and AA batteries to the rebels.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:01

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Don't be such a loving pedant, there's a reason people group the Middle East and North Africa together.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:01

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Smug Guy posted:

Find where Tripoli is on a map, then draw a circle over what you consider the "Middle East".

Afghanistan is also a part of Central Asia, not Middle East. So, one US war in the Middle East and even there they're not actively involved in any fighting any more. Clearly there is a war deficit.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:02

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

pylb posted:

Just saw that a usually reliable and well informed french newspaper (Canard Enchaine) had published that France's intelligence agency (DGSE) had delivered 105mm canons and AA batteries to the rebels.

Maybe they shoulda left out the AA guns.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:02

Stroh M.D.: Mar 19, 2011; The eyes can mislead, a smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth.

Smug Guy posted:

Forgive me for being hard on a person who berates the condition of "The Middle East" on a location west of Naples.

Oh, but that's what the term MENA is for! It bundles the places were all of those hideous muslims you hate so much up in a way that requires no actual knowledge of geography!

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:02

BethelBAR: Apr 17, 2008; by Cowcaster

spasticColon posted:

Your Username/Avatar/Post combo pretty much sums it up. Call me an idiot all you want, I still think the US being a part of this is wrong.

Just you loving wait until you comment on a thread about IBS, then don't you dare complain when Smug Guy picks you out due to your username.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:02

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Shitpost Gaze posted:

Nonetheless it is a good reminder that we can't really know for sure how things are going to turn out, and that authoritative statements on the outcome this early are a little silly.

Stopped clock, twice a day etc.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:03

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

spasticColon posted:

So you are trying to rationalize a 3rd war because it's not technically in the Middle East? I guess I'm just the odd man out because I've become an non-interventionist when it comes to foreign policy. I just hope we the US does not send in ground troops.

I don't think you really know what's gong on here. The US has repeatedly stated they won't send troops into Libya. In fact, every country enforcing the NFZ has agreed they don't want to send troops in. And even if they wanted to, the UN resolution doesn't allow for it.

UNSC Resolution 1973 posted:

Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the Secretary-General, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory, and requests the Member States concerned to inform the Secretary-General immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorization conferred by this paragraph which shall be immediately reported to the Security Council;

What's more, the US is not leading the charge here, they've taken on a more supportive role, providing logistics for countries like Britain and France. France has already send its aircraft in, and the UK ~~will soon follow~~ followed them soon after. Meanwhile, the extent of US involvement so far has been to launch Tomahawks from its ships.

e: I'm was bit behind apparently.

Narmi fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Mar 20, 2011

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:04

Stroh M.D.: Mar 19, 2011; The eyes can mislead, a smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth.

evilweasel posted:

Maybe they shoulda left out the AA guns.

105 mm cannons aren't AA guns. They are this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M101_howitzer

Or possibly this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/105_mm_Mod%C3%A8le_F1

Though the purpose of a detached tank gun escapes me :science:

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:06

IRQ: Sep 9, 2001; SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

pylb posted:

Just saw that a usually reliable and well informed french newspaper (Canard Enchaine) had published that France's intelligence agency (DGSE) had delivered 105mm canons and AA batteries to the rebels.

That sounds like a bad idea based on how fluid the ground war is, there's every chance that additional AA equipment could be captured by Khadaffi.

Which is why it's probably just bullshit.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:06

Stroh M.D.: Mar 19, 2011; The eyes can mislead, a smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth.

Narmi posted:

You're the odd man out because you don't seem to actually know what's going on. The US has repeatedly stated they won't send troops in Libya. In fact, every country enforcing the NFZ has agreed they don't want to send troops in. And even if they wanted to, the UN resolution doesn't allow for it.

What's more, the US is not leading the charge here, they've taken on a more supportive role, providing logistics for countries like Britain and France. France has already send its aircraft in, and the UK will soon follow. Meanwhile, the extent of US involvement so far has been to launch Tomahawks from its ships.

You're lagging. The UK participated with Tornados armed with Storm Shadows during the evening run.

Stroh M.D. fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Mar 20, 2011

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:07

Burt Sexual: Jan 26, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Switchblade Switcharoo

My concern, and probably others, is what exactly is an occupying force. We could send in 10k troops, kick some loyalist rear end (or not), and leave. But realistically, the UN couldn't put in a clause that excluded ANY boots on ground whatsoever.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:08

Burt Sexual: Jan 26, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Switchblade Switcharoo

pylb posted:

Just saw that a usually reliable and well informed french newspaper (Canard Enchaine) had published that France's intelligence agency (DGSE) had delivered 105mm canons and AA batteries to the rebels.

He said AND AA batteries. Really why would you give AA to a rebel force that just accidently shot down one of their own, and then send in your countries planes to fly over the same territory.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:11

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

It's LF trying to troll GiP mod grover and it's totally hilarious and not bitter impotent whinging at all.

Except that post exists and isn't a troll at all. That said,

Gaddafi is on his last legs, also a split Libya is out of the question.

Stroh M.D. posted:

Your lagging. The UK participated with Tornados armed with Storm Shadows during the evening run.

Someone on AJE mentioned that the US might not participate until Sunday, or Monday, it's still possible we won't use manned aircraft correct?

Nonsense fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Mar 20, 2011

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:11

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

Stroh M.D. posted:

Your lagging. The UK participated with Tornados armed with Storm Shadows during the evening run.

Thanks, I just got home from work, guess I must have skimmed over that part.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:13

pylb: Sep 22, 2010; ^{"The superfluous, a very necessary thing"}

Darth123123 posted:

He said AND AA batteries. Really why would you give AA to a rebel force that just accidently shot down one of their own, and then send in your countries planes to fly over the same territory.

This exchange is supposed to have taken place in Benghazi around March 6, so before the NFZ. It obviously hasn't been confirmed though, so should be treated as rumor.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:13

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Darth123123 posted:

My concern, and probably others, is what exactly is an occupying force. We could send in 10k troops, kick some loyalist rear end (or not), and leave. But realistically, the UN couldn't put in a clause that excluded ANY boots on ground whatsoever.

I don't know why this is an issue. The UN gave no authorization for the invasion of Iraq in 2003, yet Bush and Blair pushed on with it. If someone really wanted to send troops to Libya, then they would. So far, no one is interested in doing so.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:14

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Nonsense posted:

Except that post exists and isn't a troll at all.

Except that follow grover around the forums and post it whenever he's in a thread because... well because.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:15

Stroh M.D.: Mar 19, 2011; The eyes can mislead, a smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth.

Uh, guys... sure they're not referring to these kinds of AA batteries?

Stroh M.D. fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 20, 2011

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:15

The Orgasm Sanction: Dec 30, 2006; Svelte

Darth123123 posted:

He said AND AA batteries. Really why would you give AA to a rebel force that just accidently shot down one of their own, and then send in your countries planes to fly over the same territory.

Think energizer instead of bofors.

^^^^gahhh

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:15

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Nenonen posted:

I don't know why this is an issue. The UN gave no authorization for the invasion of Iraq in 2003, yet Bush and Blair pushed on with it. If someone really wanted to send troops to Libya, then they would. So far, no one is interested in doing so.

Yeah, the language of that resolution shouldn't be a concern in a world where the U.S. has 50,000 "non-combat advisors" in Iraq.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:16

Craiglen: Sep 2, 2006

Stroh M.D. posted:

Your lagging.

You're.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:17

pylb: Sep 22, 2010; ^{"The superfluous, a very necessary thing"}

Unfortunately the joke falls flat in french, "batteries antia�riennes" is a long way from "piles AA"

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:17

Stroh M.D.: Mar 19, 2011; The eyes can mislead, a smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth.

Craiglen posted:

You're.

Right you're.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:21

Smug Guy: Dec 14, 2010; by Ozma

Nenonen posted:

Afghanistan is also a part of Central Asia, not Middle East. So, one US war in the Middle East and even there they're not actively involved in any fighting any more. Clearly there is a war deficit.

Yeah that's the joke. Go post in lf. You finally got it.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:32

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Protest in Syria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTK_TfitZV0

edit: NYT article

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/world/middleeast/20syria.html?src=tptw&pagewanted=print posted:

DAMASCUS, Syria � More than 20,000 people marched Saturday in the southern Syrian town of Dara�a in funerals for protesters killed in demonstrations the day before, and the police used truncheons and tear gas to disperse the mourners.

Protests broke out in four cities on Friday, a rare event in a police state that brutally represses dissent. At the largest one, a march of several thousand people in Dara�a, a police crackdown killed six people.

The funeral procession on Saturday became a protest in its own right, with marchers calling for more freedoms and an end to Syria�s longstanding emergency law, witnesses said. They chanted, �The people want an end to corruption,� and, �The blood of our martyrs won�t be forgotten.� They repeated the demands made in the march on Friday: that the mayor and a local security chief should be fired for their role in arresting of a group of children two weeks ago for writing protest graffiti.

�We know they used tear gas and excessive force with the protesters,� said Razan Zaitouneh, a prominent human rights lawyer in Damascus. No reporters or activists have been allowed into the city, which remains closed, and communications with the city have been cut, she said.

The authorities sent a delegation of Dara�a elders, including the mufti of the city, to try to calm the situation and negotiate with the citizens, according to Mazen Darwish, head of the Syrian Center for Media and Freedom of Expression.

One Dara�a resident said the delegation members �don�t represent us.�

The resident, who, like others, refused to be identified for fear of repercussions, said, �They would never represent the families of those killed.�

The funeral procession left the central mosque of Dara�a after noon prayers and lasted three hours before returning to the center of town. As the mourners tried to march to Al Mahata district of Dara�a, confrontations started with the security services. The authorities used tear gas, but the gas seemed more toxic than ordinary tear gas, witnesses said.

�Many suffered near suffocation and paralysis symptoms,� said a witness reached by phone.

The Interior Ministry has established a committee to �investigate the unfortunate events that happened in Dara�a,� according to the state-run Syrian Arab News Agency. �All those proved responsible, or those who committed any offense would be held accountable.�

Thirty-two people who were arrested in a small protest in the capital on Wednesday said they would go on a hunger strike until their release.

Xandu fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Mar 20, 2011

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:32

Suave Fedora: Jun 10, 2004

Mufti is a funny word.

Muuufti

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:37

spasticColon: Sep 22, 2004; In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

I'll admit my ignorance to the situation and forgetting where Libya is on the map. The news media is once again terrible even on the internet. But what's the endgame to all of this? Hopefully not occupation by US forces or any forces for that matter. Yes, I know the UN resolution states that there won't be an occupation. But if the situation worsens or doesn't improve even after air strikes, what then?

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:42

Cartouche: Jan 4, 2011

Smug Guy posted:

No what I'm trying to say is that you're an idiot and have no idea what you're talking about because you can't even find a spot on a map before smudging your pudding covered finger over what it is you're talking about.

And because of this, no one should ever take whatever you have to say seriously because you're incapable of learning what it is you're talking about before spouting off about it.

You obviously haven't studied even the basics about this event or if the consideration of ground troups has been considered.

You don't know where this place is on a map. You don't know what options are on the table. Please don't interject into this conversation. I'm not so much trying to discredit you as I am trying to keep this conversation moving constructively.

Weren't you the guy who had the gall to tell folks to settle down earlier in the thread?

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:50

OctaviusBeaver: Apr 30, 2009; Say what now?

I doubt Obama wants a land invasion. He wants to be the big war leader to raise is poll numbers and to look decisive and manly. Unfortunately starting wars of aggression does not always go as smoothly as one would like as we saw in Afghanistan, so we could very well end up with troops on the ground.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:52

Suntory BOSS: Apr 17, 2006

OctaviusBeaver posted:

He wants to be the big war leader to raise is poll numbers and to look decisive and manly.

Considering how war weary the US public is and the fact that 6/10 Americans don't want our military involved in Libya, I strongly doubt that. In fact, the Administration has been consistently downplaying our role in the conflict for exactly that reason.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:54

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Is protecting people from slaughter really a war of aggression?

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:54

spasticColon: Sep 22, 2004; In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

OctaviusBeaver posted:

Unfortunately starting wars of aggression does not always go as smoothly as one would like as we saw in Afghanistan, so we could very well end up with troops on the ground.

This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Then we would truly have a 3rd war since airstrikes apparently don't mean so.

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:56

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# ? May 19, 2024 19:07

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Xandu posted:

Is protecting people from slaughter really a war of aggression?

If the US is involved, of course it is!

# ? Mar 20, 2011 03:57

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