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farraday posted:I think it's most likely to be elite Italian spec ops squad composed entirely of Sergio Leone fans. Unfortunately because of all the extreme closeups of eyes and hands it ended up taking them 45 minutes just to get through the front gates.
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Mar 24, 2011 03:54
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Limbo posted:Unfortunately because of all the extreme closeups of eyes and hands it ended up taking them 45 minutes just to get through the front gates. You just don't understand building tension. From the BBC quote:0252: Al-Arabiya English tweets: "A steering group of countries backing military intervention in Libya will be open to all nations that want to join, could be set up in days" Get your applications in now, spots are going fast.
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Mar 24, 2011 03:56
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"Western speaking" is so vague. I'm just imagining a bunch of lost Welsh tourists.
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Mar 24, 2011 03:59
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Rnr posted:Driving home I heard in the radio that after 4 sorties with no action the Danish F-16's finally bombed something. My war porn I see your bombing run and raise you an ammo depot. quote:The Canadian raid reportedly destroyed an ammunition depot. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/canadian-cf-18s-bomb-libyan-depot-first-attack-20110323-102102-603.html I had to read it a couple of times to make sure I didn't misread, but yep we hit a target from a CF-18, not with a CF-18! 
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Mar 24, 2011 04:01
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farraday posted:From the BBC Well, it's a bit of a good sign, since steering groups usually have things like mission statements.
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Mar 24, 2011 04:07
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Test Pilot Monkey posted:"Western speaking" is so vague. I'm picturing a double decker bus filled with Scottish soccer hooligans just tearing rear end around Tripoli before stopping off at Khadaffi's tent-bunker.
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Mar 24, 2011 04:07
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Can anyone tell me why a bunch of my Facebook friends are accusing coalition forces of waging war for no reason? Do they not realize that Gaddaffi's a batshit-insane dictator and the air strikes have specifically targeted Lybian military installations? Or do I need new friends? 
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Mar 24, 2011 04:12
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melon cat posted:Can anyone tell me why a bunch of my Facebook friends are accusing coalition forces of waging war for no reason? Do they not realize that Gaddaffi's a batshit-insane dictator and the air strikes have specifically targeted Lybian military installations? Well waging war is probably accurate enough. For no reason can be easily parsed as "for reasons I disagree with" because a surprisingly limited number of people realize the two are not synonymous. If you want to drop your friends for disagreeing with you that's your business. If you want to drop them for failing to achieve an intellectually rigorous standard of communication you might have difficulty finding new ones. t3ch3 posted:Well, it's a bit of a good sign, since steering groups usually have things like mission statements. But what if the mission statement is in Western? I think the bigger problem will be a war waged by committee, which would seem to have some fairly serious negatives.
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Mar 24, 2011 04:19
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melon cat posted:Can anyone tell me why a bunch of my Facebook friends are accusing coalition forces of waging war for no reason? Do they not realize that Gaddaffi's a batshit-insane dictator and the air strikes have specifically targeted Lybian military installations? I'm sorry, I'm confused. Are you saying it doesn't count as a war if you're only targeting military installations?
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Mar 24, 2011 04:20
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Posting about politics on facebook is about the least classy thing you can do ever, regardless of what politics you post about.
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Mar 24, 2011 04:22
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melon cat posted:Can anyone tell me why a bunch of my Facebook friends are accusing coalition forces of waging war for no reason? Do they not realize that Gaddaffi's a batshit-insane dictator and the air strikes have specifically targeted Lybian military installations? You need to stop publicly admitting to having a Facebook account. Which you are apparently even using. With friends. Facebook friends.
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Mar 24, 2011 04:22
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tetsul posted:I had to read it a couple of times to make sure I didn't misread, but yep we hit a target from a CF-18, not with a CF-18! Hold your beaver tears still, the news didn't specify if it was an enemy ammo dump or the one at the coalition airbase!
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Mar 24, 2011 04:22
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farraday posted:But what if the mission statement is in Western? I think the bigger problem will be a war waged by committee, which would seem to have some fairly serious negatives. "Alright, welcome to the pre-meeting for our war planning retreat. Who's taking minutes? Denmark? Great. Now, we've contracted for just coffee and muffin catering, since we're ending the retreat by noon and Cameron promised to bring the big pads of paper and markers. Does anyone have items they wanted to add to the agenda outline I sent around?"
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Mar 24, 2011 04:29
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t3ch3 posted:"Alright, welcome to the pre-meeting for our war planning retreat. Who's taking minutes? Denmark? Great. Now, we've contracted for just coffee and muffin catering, since we're ending the retreat by noon and Cameron promised to bring the big pads of paper and markers. Does anyone have items they wanted to add to the agenda outline I sent around?" I think you need to passive aggressive that up a bit more to sound like a real meeting. So comments from Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister via BBC. quote:0328: Coalition aircraft attacked a fuel depot in Tripoli on Wednesday night, Libya's Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaim has told reporters, according to the Associated Press. Other targets on Wednesday were near Benghazi and Misrata, Mr Kaim said. Libya isn't very good at this, they launch operations after cease fires and stop firing without declaring one. farraday fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 04:32
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farraday posted:From the files of "gently caress if I know, just report it in case it's true" we have this from the BBC liveblog. I suspect these are European mercenaries raiding and looting Qaddafi's pad when they found out they got paid in phony money. Qaddafi should've know its not cool to rip off mercenaries.
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Mar 24, 2011 04:39
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melon cat posted:Can anyone tell me why a bunch of my Facebook friends are accusing coalition forces of waging war for no reason? Do they not realize that Gaddaffi's a batshit-insane dictator and the air strikes have specifically targeted Lybian military installations? People that didnt follow all the crazy poo poo that led to the current situation seem to be content just calling it iraq and the government imperialists because thats been the stereotypical progressive educated person line for a while. Its a knee-jerk reaction by a lot of people to hear US military and MiddleEast. Just know above all they are probably ignorant of the situation. They are the type that wait for their smart friends to breakdown a situation before considering their preconceptions.
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Mar 24, 2011 04:49
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evilweasel posted:Posting about politics on facebook is about the least classy thing you can do ever, regardless of what politics you post about.
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Mar 24, 2011 05:42
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Cicero posted:Nothing wrong with informed discussion or disagreement. You were missing a key part, and that key unlocks the secret of why Facebook political debates with your more laid-back friends turn out generally retarded.
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Mar 24, 2011 05:46
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Christ, some of the commentators on the Al-Jazeera blog site are now calling for Jamahiriya to be bombed.
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Mar 24, 2011 05:53
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Just about Dawn in Tripoli and the sun is already up in the west.quote:Good morning starshine BBC: quote:0426: Libyan officials took journalists to a hospital in Tripoli early on Thursday to see what they said were the charred bodies of 18 military personnel and civilians killed by air and missile strikes, the Reuters news agency reports. Gloobie gloop... gloobie.... No way to confirm their identities probably. Safer than the earlier reports where people supposedly killed in coalition strikes were recognized by family members as having been taken away by Qaddafi's men.
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Mar 24, 2011 05:54
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Chronojam posted:You were missing a key part, and that key unlocks the secret of why Facebook political debates with your more laid-back friends turn out generally retarded.
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Mar 24, 2011 05:54
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I don't see how tech savy = informed political awareness. Facebook gives people confidence, who have no idea about politics or history, to express those dumb opinions because it's safe and easy.
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Mar 24, 2011 06:20
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Boy, all this Libya stuff is pretty serious. At least things are a little more quiet at the moment here in Bahrain. Most of the stores around me are open again, and the curfew around parts of Manama has been shortened from 4PM-4AM to being 8PM-4AM, I think. But that's only in certain regions around the city anyway, it's not everywhere. Security around my workplace seems to be back to normal too, but I'm not sure how long this relative calm will last. I've heard from a co-worker that there's supposed to be a big rally on Friday over at the other end of town, even though I thought protests and such were not permitted at the moment. I'm not positive about that happening or not, I haven't seen anything mentioned on the US Embassy site yet about it. Here's the latest PDF from the US Embassy here in Bahrain, if anyone's interested! http://bahrain.usembassy.gov/demonstration/demonstrations/demonstration_notice_-_mar_20_-_261.pdf I live and work well within one of the green zones on the map. This map... has a heck of a lot more red zones on it than the last one I looked at, boy. I haven't personally seen any of the checkpoints with armed thugs or whatever, but I don't travel around much. I don't have a car here. But they mentioned them last week at work here, and what to do if you're stopped or whatever. I haven't heard as much about them this week, maybe there's less of them. Ever since the Pearl Roundabout was demolished, seems like there's less news about Bahrain and way more about Libya, so it's hard to say how things will turn out here. I assume the GCC troops are still around somewhere, I haven't heard anything about them leaving yet. EDIT - It looks like the curfew in parts of the city is from 10PM-4AM, not from 8 to 4. So even shorter. HJE-Cobra fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 07:05
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It's funny that GBS has tended to be mostly anti-war in the past, but now suddenly I feel as if I entered an alternate universe in regards to the Libyan conflict. When I now go to traditionally pro-war websites like Yahoo! news article comments, Free Republic, Fox News, & so on....., they are decisively anti-war talking about how in-debt and broke America is and how we are warmongers, etc. While here on Something Awful, I feel like I am reading the neo-con forums where war porn is everywhere and what is talked about is how wonderful regime change is and forcefully spreading democracy is the will of America. I know it's more complicated than that, but on the surface it looks that way.
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Mar 24, 2011 08:11
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ZetaReticuli49er posted:It's funny that GBS has tended to be mostly anti-war in the past, but now suddenly I feel as if I entered an alternate universe in regards to the Libyan conflict. Tell us 'bout them blacks.
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Mar 24, 2011 08:16
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This is an example of the uninformed, knee-jerk anti-war stuff that's getting passed around (via Facebook) by some of the armchair activists that I know: Instead of Bombing Dictators, Stop Selling Them Bombs I was halfway through writing a point-by-point refutation of the whole damned thing when I realized that I was gearing up for political arguments on Facebook with people who have "You can't hug your children with nuclear arms" bumper stickers. 
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Mar 24, 2011 08:38
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ZetaReticuli49er posted:It's funny that GBS has tended to be mostly anti-war in the past, but now suddenly I feel as if I entered an alternate universe in regards to the Libyan conflict. TWILIGHT ZONE
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Mar 24, 2011 08:43
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Slantedfloors posted:Have you been paying attention to his speeches? This is a trick question and the sponges will fire at imperialist scum with their al quaeda boogie cannons!!! HJE-Cobra posted:Here's the latest PDF from the US Embassy here in Bahrain, if anyone's interested! 
Warthog fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 09:12
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Tadhg posted:I was halfway through writing a point-by-point refutation of the whole damned thing when I realized that I was gearing up for political arguments on Facebook with people who have "You can't hug your children with nuclear arms" bumper stickers. 
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Mar 24, 2011 09:37
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ZetaReticuli49er posted:It's funny that GBS has tended to be mostly anti-war in the past, but now suddenly I feel as if I entered an alternate universe in regards to the Libyan conflict. No the funny thing is that uninformed people like you are suddenly popping into this thread ever since Libya hit mainstream media. To say this intervention is simply war porn proves you have no idea about what has been happening in Libya and that region.
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Mar 24, 2011 09:40
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Warthog posted:Is it just me or does that map seem a bit like those cheap tourist-mini-maps they hand out at airports and train stations? It's gotta be some kind of tourist map of Bahrain, it's got notable sights marked with icons. The stadium, the fort, the Pearl Roundabout, the Grand Mosque, and other places of interest all have icons depicting them. And the boat icons too, yeah. I guess they just got whatever map they had lying around at the embassy and put some red and green rectangles on it in Powerpoint or whatever.
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Mar 24, 2011 09:47
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Lascivious Sloth posted:No the funny thing is that uninformed people like you are suddenly popping into this thread ever since Libya hit mainstream media. To say this intervention is simply war porn proves you have no idea about what has been happening in Libya and that region. The different reactions probably have a whole lot to do with who was president. There were mega atrocities going on in Iraq before we invaded there too. They executed like 300,000 people a year in the years running up to the war if I remember reading correctly, not to mention using chemical weapons on their own populace. Bush does military action = bad for Democrats, Obama does military action = bad for Republicans. It is pretty much a no-brainer.
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Mar 24, 2011 09:58
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Tadhg posted:This is an example of the uninformed, knee-jerk anti-war stuff that's getting passed around (via Facebook) by some of the armchair activists that I know: Er, a point by point refutation? She makes a perfectly valid argument - that if we weren't selling weapons to Libya, Egypt, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia then it would be a lot harder for them to oppress their citizens in the first place. There is a little irony in the fact that much of the equipment we blew up in Iraq and now Libya was sold by Western countries in the first place. You could argue that she's confusing long term goals with short term actions but that's no reason to mock her. Pissboy Geoff posted:They executed like 300,000 people a year in the years running up to the war. And you're making a pretty non-provable argument, it could also be possible that the wars were done for different reasons, had different goals and have been managed differently that leads people to different conclusions versus simple partisanship. Sri.Theo fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 10:01
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Live blogs March 24th BBC AJE LibyaFeb17.com Guardian Misarata quote:BBC LibyaAlHurra tweets: "Medeor first aid ship arrived yesterday in Misrata under military protection. Hospitals had been short of basics including anaesthetics... Malta&US provided security support... 'The joy over the relief supplies so far only in the hospital was huge,' said Dr Nagi Idris founder of 'Global Relief for Libya'... Medeor.org is responding to urgent requests for additional relief consignments, which are packed and should arrive by the end of the week." quote:BBC The BBC's Ben Brown in Benghazi says there are reports from the besieged rebel-held city of Misrata in the west that Gaddafi bombardment has resumed. Residents say they've run out of medical supplies, hospital overflowing with casualties, no food and people drinking rainwater. But Gaddafi deputy foreign minister says only limited skirmishing in Misrata today. Benghazi quote:BBC The BBC's Ben Brown in Benghazi says it remains an unequal fight on the ground as many of the rebels have antiquated weapons, such as old hunting rifles, while Gaddafi forces have much more sophisticated kit. He says the Gaddafi assault on Misrata poses a key test for the allied pledge to protect civilians, because they are in mortal danger in that city. quote:BBC The BBC's Kevin Connolly in Benghazi has just filed an insightful interview with rebel spokesman Mustafa Gheriani. He says the rebels have 17,000 soldiers in the field, but concedes most of them aren't proper soldiers. Many are civvies, such as music teachers, pastry cooks and accountants. Responding to Connolly's suggestion that the rebel fighters are chaotic, Gheriani says: "That's not fair. A learning curve is taking place right now." quote:AJE Libya's fairly tight-lipped opposition national council has opened up, or at least one of its members has. quote:BBC The BBC's Kevin Connolly in Benghazi says at the burned city courthouse which has become the HQ of the revolution, some of the offices are old cells with iron doors; the walls are bare brick; and someone's gone round correcting the spelling on English-language rebel posters. quote:AJE The Telegraph newspaper's Rob Crilly wrote a short dispatch last night from Benghazi, describing the effort by rebels to root out Gaddafi "sleeper cells" in the area. Ajdabiya quote:AJE One of our team in the east reports that Ajdabiya Hospital is under "regular attack" these days and that most of the doctors have left. NFZ quote:BBC The UK Chief of Defence Staff's Strategic Communication Officer, Maj-Gen John Lorimer, says: "British armed forces have again participated in a co-ordinated strike against Libyan air defence systems in support of the United Nations Security Council resolution 1973. The UK launched guided Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles (TLAM) from a Trafalgar Class submarine at air defence targets as part of the coalition plan to enforce the resolution." quote:BBC French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe has just said the allied coalition will continue launching air strikes on Libyan military targets.
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Mar 24, 2011 10:06
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Ajdabiyaquote:BBC Ali Hashem, Al Jazeera correspondent in Libya tweets: "Coalition jets strikes Ajdabiya gates. #Libya #feb17" Several hours ago their were tweets about tanks being positioned at the east and west gates of Ajdabiya, so I assume that's what is being hit. It'll be interesting if those strikes have just happened, because there doesn't seem to have been much coalition activity during daylight hours so far.
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Mar 24, 2011 10:30
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Xandu posted:A good perspective on imperialism and this recent intervention. It's right that simplistic ideas about "imperialism" and "class struggle" fail to adequately explain this conflict, but they've failed to explain many other conflicts in world history too. These revolutions are not "unforeseen" at all - we've been seeing them form for years on the Internet among Arab youth, although we couldn't know exactly when and where it would kick into high gear. As for a new political system without parties, this is just a transitory period where political parties will form in time after having been suppressed for a long time. I'd submit that this intervention follows the same "logic" as in the Balkans, that of intervening to stop atrocities. There, Yugoslavia was split up into pre-existing countries, but everyone seems to make it quite clear that Libya should not be split up. While the primary motivation is humanitarian, and goes against some realpolitik-goals (oil, immigration), it does also support some realpolitik-goals (goodwill from the "Arab street", economic progress on the long term, stability in the Med).
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Mar 24, 2011 10:55
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melon cat posted:Can anyone tell me why a bunch of my Facebook friends are accusing coalition forces of waging war for no reason? Do they not realize that Gaddaffi's a batshit-insane dictator and the air strikes have specifically targeted Lybian military installations? This is pissing me off no end - Stop the War Coallition are holding  EMERGENCY PROTESTS against the intervention. My question is - well what do you propose instead? Real people are dying out there, if we don't do anything, Gadaffi will kill them all (as he has done in the past). They won't listen to any argument for the war, even when it is coming direct from a girl living in Benghazi. The "we know what's good for them better than they do" attitude of the anti-war folks is just loving patronising.
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Mar 24, 2011 10:59
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Tripoliquote:BBC Freequeenpeace tweets: "Just spoke with my cousin in #Tripoli, #Libya. Phone lines are up, call if you can!" Hopefully that'll mean more reports from people in Tripoli soon. Misarata quote:Guardian Despite air strikes, Gaddafi's tanks rolled back into Misrata under the cover of darkness and began shelling the area near the main hospital, residents and rebels told Reuters. I think those tanks have now withdrawn or been destroyed.
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Mar 24, 2011 10:59
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Pissboy Geoff posted:The different reactions probably have a whole lot to do with who was president. There were mega atrocities going on in Iraq before we invaded there too. They executed like 300,000 people a year in the years running up to the war if I remember reading correctly, not to mention using chemical weapons on their own populace. Bush does military action = bad for Democrats, Obama does military action = bad for Republicans. It is pretty much a no-brainer. Iraq could have executed 100 billion kittens, but that was not how Bush sold us the war. Initially, it was all a bunch of bullshit about weapons of mass destruction. The bullshit about spreading democracy and the bullshit about how bad a guy he was both came after the first bullshit justification turned out to be (as anyone could tell you beforehand) complete loving bullshit. Whereas Khadaffi is very definitely massacring the opposition.
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Mar 24, 2011 11:09
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It's annoying to see the for and against arguements being reduced down to just one key point for either side. There's a number of reasons for involvement in Libya, personally I think it's a combination of the following: - Protecting civilians from Gaddafi, especially after what appears to have happened in Zawiyah. - Ensuring Libya doesn't become a rogue state on the other side of the Med from Europe. - Deflecting criticism for inaction in other parts of the Arab world, especially the Gulf States. - Replacing Gaddafi with a regime that's more stable, whether or not that's democratic is to be seen. - Helping the rebels finish of Gaddafi after a lot of Western countries gave the rebels their backing and destroyed their relationships with Gaddafi. I really don't think that the coalition wants to end up with another Green Zone in Tripoli, I believe they really want the rebels to have ownership of the victory, and have them establish a new regime, ideally a stable democracy. Whether or not that pans out is difficult to predict.
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Mar 24, 2011 11:21
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