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News of another major defection.quote:Guardian The Guardian has been told that General Khouildi Hamidi, Muammar Gaddafi's intelligence coordinator, is defecting from the Gaddafi regime. We're trying to confirm this. The Malta journalist who first said Kousa was defecting was talking about this happening last night, along with 4 other important regime figures.
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Mar 31, 2011 11:26
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Chortles posted:I remember a goon referring to a standing army as a threat to liberty (and thus by implication more trouble than it's worth)... but now, I'm wondering how he or she would respond to what an ad hoc "people's army" looks like?* I have no idea who this other guy is, and I don't necessarily think a standing army is a terrible idea, but Libya *does* have a standing army. It's the one that's the threat to liberty.
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Mar 31, 2011 11:31
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OwlBot 2000 posted:So you're saying Koussa will be murdered in his jail cell? Let's be fair. Hess was found hung in a prison greenhouse when he was 93, at least 43 years after the war ended and half a lifetime in isolation. If he was intentionally murdered, had help in committing suicide, or managed to wrap an electrical cord around his neck, all those possibilities still remain open.
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Mar 31, 2011 11:59
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Brown Moses posted:News of another major defection. https://twitter.com/!/FMCNL/status/53409282263232512 Which would fit with that tweet. @FMCNL posted:Currently Nomad Aviation flight Cessna 525 CitationJet tail nr HB-VWM at FL390 (!) heading Tunisia Djerba, more defections to come? Could be the start of a flood of defections.
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Mar 31, 2011 12:06
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I'm getting the feeling that the earlier army defections have been greatly exaggerated and the rebels simply don't have anything combat-worthy to put on the field. Looks like it's going to be a stalemate: Gaddafi forces can't bring up enough firepower to seriously threaten Benghazi and the rebels can't get their act together in the immediate future. So the war will go on between Bin Jawad and Aydabija, with the occasional coalition airstrikes. The end result with the current path is that the east manages to start exporting oil and continue with life in the cities, while the loyalists can't do that because of the embargoes. Before long, the people with influence and business interests in the west will realize this and then it is just a matter of time until Gaddafi is gone.
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Mar 31, 2011 12:50
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I'm fairly certain that once Gaddafi's forces reach Ajdabiya the coalition will start bombing them again, then it'll be back to Sirte, then back and forth, the coalition jumping in everytime civilians look threatened. At the moment they are probably relying on more defections, it wouldn't suprise me if we saw at least one more defection in the next 12 hours.
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Mar 31, 2011 12:56
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IRQ posted:Hey we armed Saddam too, don't forget to drag that horribly inaccurate comparison out! Not only did you arm him, you helped him try (and fail) to seize power, smuggled him off to Egypt where he could be nursed back to health, and try again. Jut fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 13:19
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Bit of an update from the east:quote:Coalition forces have bombed pro-Gaddafi forces near Brega, and they have been pushed back to the village of Bishr, west of the city, BBC Monitoring reports, quoting privately-owned online newspaper Libya al-Yawm. "Brega: Alliance forces bomb the hardware of Gaddafi's brigades near the village of al-Urqub to the south of Brega... Brega: Gaddafi brigades driven back to the area of the village of Bishr west of Brega," the paper said.
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Mar 31, 2011 13:44
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Jut posted:Not only did you arm him, you helped him try (and fail) to seize power, smuggled him off to Egypt where he could be nursed back to health, and try again. Don't forget those 1 million dissidents killed under his regime and the chemical weapons attacks on Halajab all happened when he was on our payroll. In fact, the bulk of his political murders were coordinated using computer databases we provided to him.
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Mar 31, 2011 14:02
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Young Freud posted:Don't forget those 1 million dissidents killed under his regime and the chemical weapons attacks on Halajab all happened when he was on our payroll. In fact, the bulk of his political murders were coordinated using computer databases we provided to him. I guess we should learn from the past (overthrowing Governments, engineering coups, arming rebels) for a change. I find it amusing how several people have expressed amazement on how the various dictators in the Middle East revolutions have responded with similar actions, which are seen as stupid and futile, yet don't seem to have a problem with The West making the same loving mistakes over and over in the Middle East.
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Mar 31, 2011 14:07
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1mpper posted:The problem is that there's no real concrete connection between the NTC council and the actual rebels on the ground fighting. Additionally, if you read their bios and their PR-glossed website, it becomes obvious that the NTC leadership, especially the prime minister, are well-connected neoliberal technocrats likely propped up by business interests within Benghazi and the western world. They've already promised free-market concessions to the West and oil business to countries like Qatar (likely in return for recognition) should they end up forming the new Libyan government. Whether that translates into a legitimate transitional government representing the will of the rebels, and the people at large, is tenuous at best. I recall something similar to this put forward in the D&D thread. Basically, your argument boils down to the notion that we shouldn't support or recognize a fledgling democratic movement simply because we don't like the ideologies or motives of it's leadership. Henry Kissinger felt the same way.
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Mar 31, 2011 14:34
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dj_clawson posted:Google News is feeding me a lot of news that reads, "Obama authorizes covert operations in Libya." I began by thinking that Gadaffy was a Bond villain. I am now beginning to view Obama as such. Except Obama is more like Dr Evil, giving Gadaffy a way out of every situation. "I have you now, Gadaffy! When the timer runs out, my dolphins with freakin  LASERS will finish you!"*goes golfing*
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Mar 31, 2011 14:56
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Young Freud posted:Don't forget those 1 million dissidents killed under his regime and the chemical weapons attacks on Halajab all happened when he was on our payroll. In fact, the bulk of his political murders were coordinated using computer databases we provided to him. Things were simpler back during the cold war.
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Mar 31, 2011 15:11
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From the BBC live blog:quote:Al-Arabiya TV is reporting that chief of Libyan [external] intelligence Abu-Zayd Durdah has fled to Tunisia. There is no independent confirmation of the report.
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Mar 31, 2011 15:17
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Cartouche posted:I began by thinking that Gadaffy was a Bond villain. I am now beginning to view Obama as such. Except Obama is more like Dr Evil, giving Gadaffy a way out of every situation. I get the feeling the CIA is there to end this quickly. And by end this quickly, I mean 'execute every single member of Gadaffi's family and burn them on a pyre so we can get back to our own poo poo.'
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Mar 31, 2011 15:17
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[quote="CartoucheObama is more like Dr Evil [/quote] Of all the things in the world, I just know there has to be a comic book superhero that's just the biggest limp dick in the world.
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Mar 31, 2011 15:21
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SoroScrew
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:I get the feeling the CIA is there to end this quickly. And by end this quickly, I mean 'execute every single member of Gadaffi's family and burn them on a pyre so we can get back to our own poo poo.' The CIA isn't exactly great at james bond stuff.
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Mar 31, 2011 15:45
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evilweasel posted:The CIA isn't exactly great at james bond stuff. Well, in all fairness to the CIA, you'd not hear much about the successes.
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Mar 31, 2011 15:50
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Cartouche posted:Well, in all fairness to the CIA, you'd not hear much about the successes. The sad truth is just that pretty much every single one of the CIA's operations end in either failure or massive blowback, unless it's orchestrated against somone who doesn't even realize they're about to get hosed. That's what happens when your agency was founded by trust-funders with no real world experience and is kept alive by people looking for something on their resume before they jump ship to the defense industry. Slantedfloors fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 15:52
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evilweasel posted:The CIA isn't exactly great at james bond stuff. Was it them or the brits that called up the people who made Thunderball to ask if the tiny rebreather in the movie was a real thing? It was like a couple CO2 canisters taped together. 
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Mar 31, 2011 16:35
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Wouldn't it be great if Gaddafi's retarded sons got implicated in terrorist acts and ended up in Gitmo? One can only hope.
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Mar 31, 2011 16:38
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IRQ posted:Was it them or the brits that called up the people who made Thunderball to ask if the tiny rebreather in the movie was a real thing? It was like a couple CO2 canisters taped together. Oh that's rich. Got a link? I kind of doubt everything the CIA does is successful/good, but they can't be completely moronic. Calling in GPS coordinates can't go wrong. *bombs hospital*
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Mar 31, 2011 17:05
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cioxx posted:Wouldn't it be great if Gaddafi's retarded sons got implicated in terrorist acts and ended up in Gitmo? Considering Gitmo is a travesty of flagrant human rights violations, no.
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Mar 31, 2011 17:08
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Darth123123 posted:Oh that's rich. Got a link? I kind of doubt everything the CIA does is successful/good, but they can't be completely moronic. Calling in GPS coordinates can't go wrong. *bombs hospital* Though that's a hell of a lot more likely to happen without any spotters on the ground.
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Mar 31, 2011 17:28
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The CIA has a long history of exaggerating their failures, especially domestically. I know a little bit about them, from friends of family, and from just general history, memory and observation, and while everything in, for example, Legacy of Ashes, was completely true, I noted that certain successes were completely ignored. Not mentioned at all. This does not make them any more competent, it just points out that if you read their publicity, you will view them as complete failures.
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Mar 31, 2011 17:31
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Xandu posted:Though that's a hell of a lot more likely to happen without any spotters on the ground. Agreed. And if a spook gets killed will it be reported?
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Mar 31, 2011 17:49
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Things are happening in Ivory Coast.BBC posted:Ivorian President Laurent Gbagbo's army chief has sought refuge at the home of South Africa's ambassador in Abidjan, South Africa's foreign ministry says. Things can't be going too well for Gbagbo's forces if their leader decides to throw the towel. Situation map. Just a week back Ouattara's forces were restricted to the northern part of the country, now they control the capital Yamoussoukro and the port of San Pedro. Abidjan is the main city of the country, but some parts of it are controlled by Ouassara's guerrillas too. 
Nenonen fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 18:00
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Cartouche posted:Well, in all fairness to the CIA, you'd not hear much about the successes. http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Hope-C-I-Interventions-II-Updated/dp/1567512526/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2 You can read about a lot of the CIA successes in that book. Their success is not always something to brag about.
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Mar 31, 2011 18:04
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First Libyaquote:NicRobertsonCNN: Govt spksmn said #Musa Kusa left Libya on sick leave. We askd if any other officials currently on “sick leave”? He said no. We’ll see. "Yeah we heard people partying in the background but he claimed he was sick and union rules meant we had to give it to him. loving Unions." quote:Liberty4Libya: #Gadafi militias issue ultimatum to #Rujban revolutionaries, giving them till 4pm (passed) #Libya time to surrender, or face consequences. Rujban is to the south and West of Tripoli toward the Tunisian border. It has not been a site of recent clashes in the past week, although twitter chatter has picke dup around int in the past 24 hours. Syria Assad orders review of Syrian laws The timing here is obvious. Tomorrow, Friday, is a week since protests broke open nationwide following unrest in Daraa. Unrest continues, and you can expect tomorrow to see how the protesters and army are going to react to the recent developments. Bahrain Bahrain steps up crackdown on opposition Key here is the sub-headline outlining claims and counterclaims of Hezbollah involvement. The push toward a sectarian narrative here is fairly widespread and is part of the justification for GCC intervention. So far they appear to be successful in undermining the movement toward a less autocratic government. Kuwait Guardian quote:Kuwait's cabinet resigned on Thursday over regional turmoil, the country's official news agency said, in an apparent reference to the political unrest in neighboring Bahrain. Yemen has been out of the news in recent days, but again expect movement there tomorrow. farraday fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 18:16
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I was under the impression that the Yemen govt. had more or less given up the ghost. Is there anything left other than a guy sticking his fingers in his ears and going 'lalala can't heeeeeeeeear you'?
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Mar 31, 2011 18:18
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Pureauthor posted:I was under the impression that the Yemen govt. had more or less given up the ghost. Is there anything left other than a guy sticking his fingers in his ears and going 'lalala can't heeeeeeeeear you'? There were talks between President Saleh and one of the leading General's who had defected, but they appear to have stalled with the opposition refusing Saleh's concessions. However since then there's been very little as it appear neither side really wants a military confrontation. Of course the situation is unstable and with mass protests highly likely again tomorrow anything going wrong could set it off. Edit// Submitted without comment, there is a thread of dialogue in the twitter stream relating various actors and elements in the Libyan uprising to Harry Potter characters.
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Mar 31, 2011 18:21
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Apparently, Ali Treki's attempt at becoming the Libyan envoy to the UN has become short lived. He's defected as well. Also, Lindsey Graham has been the first to break Republican ranks and support the Libyan Transitional Council, by saying they're not al-Qaeda and will not become an al-Qaeda aligned state.
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Mar 31, 2011 19:00
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The Guardian has a little more detail:quote:Another senior Libyan official appears to have resigned, which if true makes him the second big name to defect from Gaddafi's inner circle within a day. According to AP: And a bit from AJE: quote:A senior Libyan diplomat has announced his resignation and fled to Egypt, becoming the second high-profile reported defection from Gaddafi's government in as many days. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 19:00
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Actually I'm pretty sure Syria is nipped in the bud, and this time by the actual people, not security forces, but both are likely to annihilate any uprising.
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Mar 31, 2011 19:55
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Nonsense posted:Actually I'm pretty sure Syria is nipped in the bud, and this time by the actual people, not security forces, but both are likely to annihilate any uprising. You're a well known pessimist though.
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Mar 31, 2011 20:01
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farraday posted:You're a well known pessimist though. Sounds like a personal problem.
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Mar 31, 2011 20:04
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Contraction mapping posted:I recall something similar to this put forward in the D&D thread. Basically, your argument boils down to the notion that we shouldn't support or recognize a fledgling democratic movement simply because we don't like the ideologies or motives of it's leadership. Henry Kissinger felt the same way. But I didn't make that argument at all? My argument is that it is quite possible that this one specific opposition council (and there's one or two others claiming to be legitimate as well if I recall correctly) consists primarily of neoliberal technocrats trying to co-opt a rebellion that they only have the most tenuous connection to. As in, they took the opportunity of a spontaneous counter-revolution to illegitimately claim a leadership role in order to ensure a business-friendly agenda and power once an interim government becomes feasible after Gadhafi is defeated. This assessment is bolstered considering the deals they have already cut with western business interests and OPEC nations like Qatar in return for "recognition". In other words I'm proposing we (I don't use that term to necessarily mean the U.S., certainly a neoliberal regime is in the west's interests) shouldn't support or recognize every organization that merely claims to be democratic when there's no clear connection between them and the rag-tag rebels they claim to represent, especially when they already seem so willing to sell out Libyan financial interests. Your comparison to Henry Kissinger is also somewhat lacking considering he was friendly to all non-leftist pro-western governments, democratic and authoritarian alike. And the NTC is certainly not leftist.
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Mar 31, 2011 20:04
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Sounds like NATO airstrikes are occuring inside Misarata, these from the last 20 minutes:quote:LibyaFeb17_com DIRECT from Misratah: Coalition fighter jets air striking Gaddafi's tanks in Misratah right now quote:feb17libya Skynews reports that Witness says hears a dozen loud explosions and rocket fire in #Misrata quote:Libyan Tripolitanian Sorry abt the last tweet, tht was from a phone call this morning. Friends on twitter telling me NATO is attacking Gaddafi forces in Misrata quote:[b]Tripolitanian UPDATE: Coalition forces have targeted a few tanks in #Misrata
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Mar 31, 2011 20:11
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Nonsense posted:Sounds like a personal problem. They have a pill for that now, but it never helps. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2062387,00.html Time article based on the rebel leaderships claims of what equipment they'd need to defeat Qadafi's forces. I believe the US military is skeptical that increased weaponry would do much good in light of the disorganized nature of the ground forces. The issue of arming the rebels has increasingly come to the fore in recent days, with Turkey again rising as a dissenting voice against the major pro-intervention powers.
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Mar 31, 2011 20:18
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evilweasel posted:The CIA isn't exactly great at james bond stuff. Cartouche posted:Well, in all fairness to the CIA, you'd not hear much about the successes. I imagine they may be doing things the easy way, like helping several Libyan officials to resign publicly to undermine the regime. A lot more effective than a few snipers.
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Mar 31, 2011 20:32
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