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etcetera08 posted:the word 'float' is being used incorrectly since float implies an intention to steal the pot later. it's more that the just call because I COULD STILL HIT (as was already said). In the original post a month ago I was using float in that context because the player was described as a "very good LAG." In general 1/2 players are incapable of an actual float move (not that it would be particularly wise to do so in a 1/2 game anyway), which was I think the quibble MRP and I had. Then of course Moose chimed in and now we're posting graphs without context and I remember why I (and many, many others) stopped posting in these threads. vonkin posted:Play HU for staked rolls Last time this happened Moose got blown out in a perma challenge and then parachuted out of it. Yeah, not doing this.
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Mar 25, 2011 23:18
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jeffersonlives posted:In the original post a month ago I was using float in that context because the player was described as a "very good LAG." In general 1/2 players are incapable of an actual float move (not that it would be particularly wise to do so in a 1/2 game anyway), which was I think the quibble MRP and I had. Then of course Moose chimed in and now we're posting graphs without context and I remember why I (and many, many others) stopped posting in these threads. are u jelly? you're the person who decided to throw my ability into question after I disagreed with you. the context was you saying "derp derp who would listen to you clown you couldnt even win at live 1/2!!!!"
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Mar 25, 2011 23:24
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jeffersonlives posted:In the original post a month ago I was using float in that context because the player was described as a "very good LAG." In general 1/2 players are incapable of an actual float move (not that it would be particularly wise to do so in a 1/2 game anyway), which was I think the quibble MRP and I had. Then of course Moose chimed in and now we're posting graphs without context and I remember why I (and many, many others) stopped posting in these threads.  who is many many others?
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Mar 26, 2011 00:02
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etcetera08 posted:who is many many others? The analysis threads go dead for weeks at a time and pretty much all of the people who have interesting things to say about pokering don't post in them even though many of them still post in other threads. You really think the quantity and quality is what it was years ago?
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Mar 26, 2011 00:09
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Here's a live hand I played where I'm not sure if I did the right thing. This is live full ring $2-3 NL Hold'em with a max buy-in of $200. The casino I play at is generally pretty loose/soft. I'm in UTG+1 with KK, and about $200 in stack. UTG limps. I raise to $15. 3 callers including the CO and the short-stacked small blind. Flop comes J98 rainbow. First to act, I bet $40 into the ~$60 pot. CO shoves for about $200 total. Small blind calls for about $60. Others fold. CO seems aggressive but I don't have much other read on him yet. What should I do? I folded, CO had AJ and didn't improve, small blind mucked. I was frustrated at not calling but not sure if I was just being results-oriented. ShardPhoenix fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Mar 26, 2011 |
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Mar 26, 2011 00:28
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Holy poo poo did "a thing" start because of my loving post. Jefferson isn't even wrong in his analysis, it just reminded me of how many hilariously stupid things 1/2 casino players will do that may resemble higher level play if you take them out of context. Nobody in that situation was coming with nothing, he's completely correct. Shard- If the players you are playing against look like typical casino patrons I would call and not feel too horrible about myself. Given that one person had 60 I would imagine they are horrible and discount this meaning anything strong. So the only thing I'd be concerned with is the overbet all in and even that seems more like a bad player overplaying a pair or a pair and a draw than anything too strong.
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Mar 26, 2011 00:55
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Was this at Commerce? Don't fold. Edit: nvm Commerce plays 1/3, still don't fold.
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Mar 26, 2011 01:08
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MassRayPer posted:Shard- If the players you are playing against look like typical casino patrons I would call and not feel too horrible about myself. Given that one person had 60 I would imagine they are horrible and discount this meaning anything strong. So the only thing I'd be concerned with is the overbet all in and even that seems more like a bad player overplaying a pair or a pair and a draw than anything too strong.  ).BTW I was playing at Crown Casino in Australia which from what I've heard is softer than any Vegas casino. ShardPhoenix fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Mar 26, 2011 |
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Mar 26, 2011 01:11
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So I dabbled in a bit of FR Rush when SNGs were kinda regtastic. Sigh. Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/1 Hold'em Cash Games, 9 Players Board: FDSaussure (Button): $100,00 diegone82 (SB): $115,00 Aussieboy355 (BB): $102,75 wollxer (UTG): $57,80 GAMBOLLER (UTG+1): $45,15 petian (MP1): $133,75 plyngpkrforfun (MP2): $76,40 Maldelver (MP3): $54,15 CoolStoryBroLOL (CO): $126,80 Dealt to FDSaussure K  K Pre-flop: (5 folds), CoolStoryBroLOL raises to $2,00, FDSaussure raises to $7,00, (2 folds), CoolStoryBroLOL raises to $19,00, FDSaussure calls $12,00 Flop: ($39,50) K  9 A (2 Players)CoolStoryBroLOL bets $21,00, FDSaussure calls $21,00 Turn: ($81,50) 8 (2 Players)CoolStoryBroLOL checks, FDSaussure checks River: ($81,50) 7 (2 Players)CoolStoryBroLOL bets $86,80 and is all-in, FDSaussure calls $60,00 and is all-in, CoolStoryBroLOL returns $26,80 Results: CoolStoryBroLOL Showed 6 5 FDSaussure Mucks K K CoolStoryBroLOL wins $198,50
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Mar 27, 2011 01:11
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Really really need to work on my deep game/game selection. I played my longest session ever at live 1/2 (like 12 hours) cause my computer is dead...I bought in for 100bb was up to like 500bb at one point cause of a insanely drunk guy/lagtard/bluffing a lot. I actually said to myself a bunch of times that I was too deep and all the fish had been stacked and I should walk away but I wanted to stay until the tournament the next day... Anyway here is the hand that put me on crazy tilt and caused me to start playing horribly and opening 60% of my hands: Villian in this hand is a young guy who had been playing very tight and hadn't shown any agression or raised until this point. My image is pretty tight when it goes to showdown...he only saw me go to showdown three times and I had monsters each time. But I had been really loose post either firing two bullets or making some kind of delayed bluff if I had a draw and he had seen me just stealing dead money a lot. I was folding a lot when a people were raising me like 3x pot and I only had top-pair on wet boards which I think villian was explointing...I think a bad tendency I got from playing online too much (especially rush poker). Pre: UTG with like 500bb smallest stack is like 75bb..KK open to 15 4 callers. Villian calls from MP. Flop: J9x black. Opened for like 45. Villian snap raises for 100. Everyone folds I call which in retrospect was kinda horrible...but I put him on like AJ/mid PP and was hoping to get some more value later. But I should always be 3betting here right? Turn: red 8...bet 150 he snap-raises again to 600 with like 200 behind with a really excited look on his face...after tanking like 30 seconds he calls the clock on me. I ended up folding. No idea what he had but overpair is usually the nuts live and I had like 60% equity versus his range of AJ/sets/air right? edit: Also what does it usually mean when someone calls the clock that fast? Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Mar 27, 2011 |
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Mar 27, 2011 08:19
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Dr. Eat posted:Really really need to work on my deep game/game selection. I played my longest session ever at live 1/2 (like 12 hours) cause my computer is dead...I bought in for 100bb was up to like 500bb at one point cause of a insanely drunk guy/lagtard/bluffing a lot. I actually said to myself a bunch of times that I was too deep and all the fish had been stacked and I should walk away but I wanted to stay until the tournament the next day... Also, I'm not sure how much sense it makes to just call a raise on the flop and then bet out on the turn when you haven't improved. ShardPhoenix fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Mar 27, 2011 |
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Mar 27, 2011 12:45
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Kinda hard to comment since we don't know the exact board, but generally I think you should be calling or folding the flop. When you're deep you really don't want to be putting a ton of money in on the flop vs. a tight, maybe passive player. On the turn as played it is a snap fold, you are good here never ever ever. You should also probably be checking the turn, unless you have a real good reason to think he's raising top pair on the flop, and will call down 2 more streets with it. This seems unlikely because people usually call with top pair in villains spot, like 95% of the time, especially someone who you would describe as a young tight player.
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Mar 27, 2011 13:47
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I had a decent amount of history on him and he had been folding like 80-90% of the time to turn and river cbets and i had been doing it all night to him. My image was also really loose since i had been leading so many flops and its possible he raised because he put me on a flush draw.The card missed him as well unless he had suddenly started betting his draws or was bluff raising with 88 on the flop cause I had been cbetting so much. At the time my thought process was he was a nit whose showdown range was like 1st nuts/2nd nuts/3rd nuts. If he has AJ/QJ/JT it was for value and villain would call me down on the turn and river. Looking back on it I'm sure my kings were good and I should've jammed immediately after he called the clock and raised me so fast but I didn't feel comfortable being in a 1000bb pot with just an overpair and no draws. if he has a set and I had shown I was going to bet all 3 streets wouldn't he want to just call the turn and save the big raise for the river for max value? Edit: board was J298 two to a flush. Also should I have been checkcalling or cfolding turn and river if more bricks come? Should I just not have been playing so deep and gone home? The deepest I've ever been is like 300bb. I was happy to have a big stack when there were a lot of drunk fish there but by like 11am everyone was solid and it was pretty expensive learning experience. Ended up leaving only up 100 bucks. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 27, 2011 |
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Mar 27, 2011 14:01
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Your decision to flat his flop raise and then lead turn makes no sense and that's almost always a horrible line.
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Mar 27, 2011 18:40
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removed sperg, nothing to see here.
HKS fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Mar 28, 2011 |
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Mar 27, 2011 19:52
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I'm not sure you're using these terms correctly, tight/lose refers to how many hands you play, passive/aggressive refers to betting/raising vs checking/calling. You seem to be saying you're being loose postflop when I think you really mean you're being aggressive.
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Mar 28, 2011 08:39
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Dr. Eat posted:At the time my thought process was he was a nit whose showdown range was like 1st nuts/2nd nuts/3rd nuts. If he has AJ/QJ/JT it was for value and villain would call me down on the turn and river. These two sentences do not remotely match up. If he's not going to showdown without a near-nut hand, you're way, way behind. Dr. Eat posted:Looking back on it I'm sure my kings were good and I should've jammed immediately after he called the clock and raised me so fast but I didn't feel comfortable being in a 1000bb pot with just an overpair and no draws. if he has a set and I had shown I was going to bet all 3 streets wouldn't he want to just call the turn and save the big raise for the river for max value? Not at all. You bet and called a raise on the flop, and then bet into the raiser again on the turn. That would seem to indicate you're happy building a big pot, (and it's generally a highly questionable move in the first place, so he's probably basing part of his decision off that, too) and this is a drawy board. Even if the villain is strong enough that he's not overly worried about you sucking out, there are a lot of cards that could kill the action here. What if a card hits that completes the flush and puts a four-straight on the board? He's not likely to get his monster paid in that case, so he's looking to get it in now. I'm baffled as to why you're so convinced you were ahead here. Everything you've said about his play indicates the opposite. Dr. Eat posted:Should I just not have been playing so deep and gone home? The deepest I've ever been is like 300bb. I was happy to have a big stack when there were a lot of drunk fish there but by like 11am everyone was solid and it was pretty expensive learning experience. Ended up leaving only up 100 bucks. Yes. Poker gets trickier the deeper you are. Stack level changes the nature of the game, and mistakes can be magnified. You had a great table to stack up to that point, but the drunken fish dried up and you had no experience playing this deep. Call it a night, get some rest, and come back for the tourney. You'll play better in the tourney if you're not on the end of a major session, anyway. Really, though, I would suggest you cash out when you get this deep in the future, because your play here looks a little lost. MassRayPer posted:Holy poo poo did "a thing" start because of my loving post. Jefferson isn't even wrong in his analysis, it just reminded me of how many hilariously stupid things 1/2 casino players will do that may resemble higher level play if you take them out of context. Nobody in that situation was coming with nothing, he's completely correct. Yeah, I didn't think there's any world where I can make a call there and not be setting money on fire. Just posting to make sure of that. But like I said in my initial post, this guy can absolutely float with an eye toward stealing later. The main hole in his game is OVER-aggression. He calls all kinds of crap pre-flop and early when it's cheap and counts on fold equity to get him out of it. I thought he might be tightening up on me since I had recently called a three-barrel, but I have a feeling this whole thing played out in his head as a daring attempt to show he could still bluff me.
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Apr 1, 2011 14:22
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Yeah you guys 100% right. Appreciate the posts and my overpair was obviously no good in that spot. Thought about my hands a lot from that session and my line there was pretty horrible. Learned my lesson and I cashed out Friday after my stack got too big and the fish were gone.
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Apr 3, 2011 11:20
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?6060337 KK with deep stacks part 2. Is my line ok? seniorservice fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 3, 2011 |
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Apr 3, 2011 19:24
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Looks OK, you should bet more on the turn though so the river bet is not as large, and also because he's most likely calling turn regardless of size, so you get more money that way when he calls just twice.
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Apr 4, 2011 04:05
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I got into a kinda stupid stacksize problem during my live session the other night: The villian in this hand was a really horrible whale...he had sat down with 3.5k at a FR 1/2 table (uncapped) and had a VPIP of like 90% and was raising to $20 pre-flop with like ace-rag/any two-suited cards/trying to buy every pot post-flop. He was legitimately the worst player I have ever seen and every pot he got involved in usually had at least 3 callers. I was actually the table shortstack with like $500 (bought in for $200 but won a large pot when I turned the nut-straight and someone chasing a flush draw paid me off). Anyway I was trying to play as many hands as possible with the whale and another maniac to my right...my image was insanely nitty and I had been playing very few hands. Villian limped UTG+1, 2 players call, I raise to $20 in the CO with 33 (BTN says that I probably have aces and folds), blinds fold, villian calls, two players call, so like 80 in the pot. Flop is T73r villian bets $70 two players folds I raise to $200...villian gets a really uncomfortable look on his face and I was worried he'd fold...he min-raises to $400...I figured there was like $700 in the pot and I'd only have $100 behind if I called so I might as well 4bet ship pray he has T7 even though he might fold...there was no way he had TT/77/overpair since he would've raised preflop. Anyway since the pot was like 2x the size of my remaining stack and I can't fold I'm always shipping there, right? Not that it matters but he said afterwards in Chinese that he folded AT...I saw him later at the baccarat table losing way more Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Apr 4, 2011 |
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Apr 4, 2011 17:18
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Yeah, shipping the flop is standard. There's really no need to get cute and pretend you're retarded and unaware of stack sizes, hoping to let him stick the rest in trying to push you out. If he's not gonna call a reraise that small in the first place, it's unlikely to matter, because few people are going to think they have any fold equity on the turn to push you out there. You're clearly committed to the hand at that point, and every indication from the villain shows that he's willing to go to the felt. May as well just get it in as soon as possible. Bear in mind, you really get the best of both worlds here. Yeah, you don't quite double up, but you come about as close as you can without doing so, and you do it without even having to risk a suckout. If he had T7 and called, he'd win the hand by the river about 17% of the time. He folds you a pot of $880 while you had about $80 behind. You win that 100% of the time. If he called with T7, you win a pot of $1040 about 83% of the time, making your expectation for a call about $863, so a call (if you're thinking two pair is the bottom of his calling range) actually makes less money here in the long run. Granted, one-pair hands are going to be in much worse shape against you, but they've still got a chance to suck out that you're completely avoiding.
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Apr 4, 2011 17:43
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seniorservice posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?6060337 agree with zerostar, bet more on turn, otherwise okay and not much else you can do. Dr. Eat posted:I got into a kinda stupid stacksize problem during my live session the other night: I'm not sure what you're trying to ask since in that whole space of describing the hand you only ask one question. No you cannot fold, Folding sets against a whale? Why would you ever want to fold a set against a bad player? I assume your real question is should I have raised and then shoved over his "see where I'm at raise" because he folded for only $100 more to him. Even bad players realize no one 4-bet bluffing this board. If he is really that terrible and you are really that nitty, then it is way better to let him do all the betting and let him hang himself then for you to raise here and give him some slack and a chance to fold. Your range here is very narrow for someone with a nitty image. You don't have T7, you don't have Tx other than maybe AT so essentially you're entire range of hands on the flop when you raise is sets and AA/KK/QQ.
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Apr 4, 2011 18:03
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^^I had been the most carddead I had ever been for about 4 hours then the whale and maniac sat down and I started playing a lot more hands. Before that I had only showndown like 4 hands and raised preflop like 6 times. No I am never ever ever folding bottom set there against that villian. My question was if I should just 4bet ship on the flop even though my cards are basically face-up (as you said my entire range is sets/AA/KK/QQ) or if I'm more likely to get called on the turn. I obviously want the terrible player to call me. edit: the rake at this casino is 10% capped at $15 so the only way to make any kind of profit is to be pretty nitty. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 4, 2011 |
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Apr 4, 2011 18:22
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Dr. Eat posted:^^I had been the most carddead I had ever been for about 4 hours then the whale and maniac sat down and I started playing a lot more hands. Before that I had only showndown like 4 hands and raised preflop like 6 times. First thing is that casino is a rip off. Second, you should just 4-bet shove there because even if he knew you had a set there, you're still getting called 90% of the time. He has already committed $400 and it will be just another $100 to call into a $1k pot. It sucks that you didn't get that extra $100, but what you did was absolutely standard and you still won a huge pot and made the right play. Third, depending on your table it can be very profitable to limp in with marginal hands live, hoping to hit it big because people don't know how to fold and you (hopefully) do know how to fold. This is not to say you should limp every hand, but there are tons are situations where I've found it profitable. The added benefit is that you lose your nitty image when you go card-dead because people don't remember that you're only limping in and not doing a PFR. They just remember that "this guy was in some hands so he isn't nitty". There are tons are live players who are super nits, and even the worst players recognize this and say stupid poo poo like "Man when's the last time you've been in a pot, you must have a monster so I'm folding my Ace Queen!" I'm not saying you are nitty, but going card-dead can promote that image if you don't occasionally mix it up.
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Apr 4, 2011 18:59
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Yea the rake is absolutely horrible but it's the only legal poker room in the country and my comp was dead so eh I felt like playing live. There are underground poker rooms here but they do stuff like put chips in the cards (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/live-poker-rigged-new-technology-1010114/) and refuse to pay pots that are too big.
Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 5, 2011 |
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Apr 4, 2011 19:37
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?6074364 UTG raiser has only 6 hand sample size but he's raised half his hands (50/50) so far so I figured a 3bet is fine here with AQo in the CO. When the other guy in the BB cold calls I get worried (putting him on PP 66-QQ, AK-AT, sometimes KQ or KJs, sometimes KK, sometimes garbage since he's an NL25 player you can't discount that). Perfect flop though Q72r and I'm good here almost always so I make a half pot cbet. Overcaller calls again and other 50/50 guy check raises 2.5x the cbet for half his stack. Action? STP ratio for UTG villain is 2:1 and 3:1 for BB villain on flop seniorservice fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 15:38
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Yeah. Fold all day long. This is Rush. Your calling standards have to go up when playing Rush in general. Rush is full of set miners. It would be rare enough that someone would try checkraising so small as a steal into someone who's shown so much aggression and a caller on top even if this weren't Rush. He's trying to get paid. You did the right thing in disappointing him.
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Apr 11, 2011 19:18
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I do not think I am capable of folding this to a shortstacker. I expect to see more queens and air and stuff like A7o than sets. I would flat the raise with the intention of stacking turn against the ch/raising shortie. If the full stacked guy behind us ships I could probably get away, but I think folding here is a bit on the nitty side.
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Apr 11, 2011 22:16
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Pretty sure you're more than fine getting in TPTK vs a shortstacker.
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Apr 11, 2011 23:08
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Ah. I had their stack sizes backward. Regardless, I'm still folding to the 80BB stack in Rush. Everything in Rush is a bit on the nitty side. More than a bit, for most players. Assuming you don't have notes or stats indicating the guy's a complete fucktard, I'd still fold. Trying to use SPR theory in Rush is much different than presented in PNLHE; I've found all your ideal SPRs should be adjusted much lower than suggested in the book because Rush is so nitty. With this kind of SPR heads up, I'd call against a stack that size, but I still don't think your average Rush player is making this move into two guys who've shown strength without beating you.
AmnesiaLab fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Apr 11, 2011 |
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Apr 11, 2011 23:12
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I was playing 1/2 at a casino recently, one limper and I raise with AQo to $15 or so ~UTG+2, called by ~CO, ~BTN and the limper. Flop is Q86r. Check, I bet $45~ into ~$63. Fold. Gets to CO... CO is a college-age black guy. He tanks for maybe two minutes doing a big "what do I do, what do I do??" routine.. taking his cards off the table to look at them as if it is a tortured decision. Then he raises another ~$90 on top, leaving him with ~$30 behind. I have him covered (had just arrived at the table). It folds to me and... I instamuck. Odds that this guy leveled me into folding the best hand? ragle fucked around with this message at 09:38 on May 4, 2011 |
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May 4, 2011 09:26
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ragle posted:I was playing 1/2 at a casino recently, one limper and I raise with AQo to $15 or so ~UTG+2, called by ~CO, ~BTN and the limper. Flop is Q86r. Check, I bet $45~ into ~$63. Fold. Gets to CO... 1000000-1
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May 4, 2011 09:50
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So hey yeah I'm pretty new at internet poker. I'm wondering if I could get any input on this game? http://www.pokerhand.org/?6099645 I'm still very uncertain on how much to bet, especially since I've played a week and a half of limit before this. I didn't really have a read on my opponent either.
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May 4, 2011 13:53
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Aeble posted:So hey yeah I'm pretty new at internet poker. I'm wondering if I could get any input on this game? http://www.pokerhand.org/?6099645 Seems OK but bet bigger on the turn. Trips aren't folding, it's possible one of your opponents has a weaker flush, and definitely possible someone has the K or something. My default would be to shove, but anything close to pot will do, as long as you never fold after committing yourself.
IsotopeOrange fucked around with this message at 16:25 on May 4, 2011 |
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May 4, 2011 16:10
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Well, good news! You now have a read on him. You should probably make a note that he mashes minbet when he has a monster. That being said, I think you should go ahead and bet bigger on the turn. There's a lot of hands that you have beat that are never folding, and a lot of single diamond hands that floated the flop that will likely pay out. Shoving the river is good. Don't feel bad about the result, and you should probably leave that off next time you post a hand. I feel like this guy will play any ace like this, and there are probably a lot more aces, worse flushes, and a few idiotic hands like 84 (woohoo 3 pairs!) that lose to you to make up for the boats and flushes that beat you. So please don't just fold next time this guy minbets and you have a flush. Think about what he thinks is a huge hand and react accordingly.
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May 4, 2011 19:20
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ragle posted:I was playing 1/2 at a casino recently, one limper and I raise with AQo to $15 or so ~UTG+2, called by ~CO, ~BTN and the limper. Flop is Q86r. Check, I bet $45~ into ~$63. Fold. Gets to CO... When they're peering and puzzling at them like the rank and suits are encoded in a math problem printed on the card, they're hamming it. The "what do I do" act alongside it is pretty good evidence he knows what he's doing and what he's doing is acting like he's caught a bigger/different hand than expected and is deciding how to play it. Put him in for his last 30 (if you were in position, call and call the turn shove).
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May 4, 2011 19:54
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Totally disagree with putting him in there. Instafold is good unless you've got a read that the guy will stack off like this with less than TPTK. Normally, this indicates huge strength. If a guy is running a bluff, he doesn't want to seem indecisive before he does it. The hesitation and debate followed by a raise is almost always a monster.
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May 5, 2011 01:58
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Completely agree with seniorservice and AmnesiaLab, if he checks his cards then spends forever tanking, you're almost always beat here. Sometimes they're doing this with an OESD or something, but I don't think they are that often.
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May 5, 2011 07:49
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Aeble posted:So hey yeah I'm pretty new at internet poker. I'm wondering if I could get any input on this game? http://www.pokerhand.org/?6099645 IsotopeOrange posted:Seems OK but bet bigger on the turn. Trips aren't folding, it's possible one of your opponents has a weaker flush, and definitely possible someone has the K This thought process is very flawed and rangeskates a huge amount. 1) what smaller flushes? for our opponents to have smaller flushes. Several things has to be possible. Our flop leading villain bet, then min3bet. This is a very unlikely line for any villain to take with 2 diamonds. Maybe the minlead part, but definitely not the min3bet part. If villain 2 (the flatting villain) had a small flush, he is much more likely to raise the turn than flat another minbet. It's easy to go well this is NL10 villains can play anything in whatever way. In practice this is not always true and even the worse villains respond logically to hands. With this all being said the chances of either villain having a flush is very very small. 2) What Kd? Villain 1, with his line that he took, didn't do it with a random Kd alone. So would he take this line with KK? Probably not. Would he take this line with AdK? probably not (would raise pre, would lead or 3bet much bigger on flop, would checkraise flop sometimes). 8xKd? I dunno if that leads, if it does it probably wouldn't 3bet flop. What other Kd takes this line that doesn't have 2 diamonds? Villain 2, he has a higher chance of having Kd. The hands that Villain 1 can't have like KKd or 8xKd or even just KdQx can potentially show up in villain 2's hand. KK is still discounted heavily because he limped behind. The thing is if villain is willing to call/call here with some 8oXd hand he pretty much has all of them. 8o7d sure, 8o9d sure etc etc. His range is much wider than just Kd and we have to be aware of it Joe-Bob posted:That being said, I think you should go ahead and bet bigger on the turn. There's a lot of hands that you have beat that are never folding, and a lot of single diamond hands that floated the flop that will likely pay out. Shoving the river is good. You too. What you guys both posted are all words and feelings. Those are not actual hand analysis at all. Range everything out when you're playing a hand. Maybe you do this intuitively but you should learn to work it out during discussions, that way you start performing the range finding mindfully in real-time. As played I take the same line as OP, due to the ranges I give both players and perception of my own hand. There is a huge difference when you work everything out and act with confidence than a muddled idea that you are probably ahead and should do x. Do this in every single hand you ever play. HKS fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 6, 2011 |
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May 6, 2011 23:05
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