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doctor 7 posted:Can you really complain about this if you liked GTA IV? That's the game I keep picking up and then putting back down after 30 minutes, and I'm not even far enough into it for any repetition to start setting in.
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Apr 13, 2011 21:19
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Basebf555 posted:I saw this as Ross going back to Washington to get "official" permission to take Marsten out. Even though he's corrupt as hell, Ross still answers to superiors. Its probably just a formality, but I doubt Ross could/would just commit murder without it being sanctioned in some capacity. This doesn't make logical sense because, again, Ross had plenty of time to get permission to do Dutch then Marston one after another. The fact remains that it makes sense to kill Marston right after he kills Dutch then kill his family. Ross had plenty of time to speak with/get permission from Johns about the entire thing.
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Apr 13, 2011 21:31
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doctor 7 posted:As I said, you basically have to make up your own reason. I think it's very possible that Ross might have actually been planning on letting them go, but then Johns said "no, make him disappear too."
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Apr 13, 2011 21:45
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TheJoker138 posted:I think it's very possible that Ross might have actually been planning on letting them go, but then Johns said "no, make him disappear too." And there is a lot more red tape to go through to get rid of a mercenary you're blackmailing into working for you and not just another bandit.
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Apr 13, 2011 21:49
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Ross let John go back to the farm as reward for doing his dirty work. He was always going to be killed. Nate Johns Wasn't some epic puppet Master behind it all. he just wanted the gang gone and Ross did that.
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Apr 13, 2011 21:54
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doctor 7 posted:As I said, you basically have to make up your own reason. It makes sense to me because "convince Marston to help us, then execute him once he's finished" doesn't feel realistic as something the FBI would actually do. To me it makes more sense as the plan of one(Ross) or two corrupt agents who, once Dutch is out of the way, have to then justify to their superiors why they need to execute the guy that just helped them. You're right that this is one where you kinda have to fill in the details on your own though.
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Apr 13, 2011 22:28
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Also, when you kill Dutch, Ross doesn't have the Army with him at that point.
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Apr 13, 2011 22:42
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Pyruvate posted:Also, when you kill Dutch, Ross doesn't have the Army with him at that point. True, really the whole thing could be as simple as Marston being a total badass and Ross is too scared not to get excessive backup.
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Apr 13, 2011 22:52
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This is pretty much what happened last time. "Marston is going to be killed by Ross, it's thrown at you over and over in the story. No problems with that, it makes sense. However how Ross kills you is never appropriate as it makes no sense so you have to come up with your own reason." "No it makes perfect sense, see: *insert about 5-10 different reasons*" Thanks for confirming my point, I guess.
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Apr 13, 2011 23:00
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doctor 7 posted:This is pretty much what happened last time. I wasn't really trying to disagree with you, just describe what I was thinking when I played that part of the game as a comparison. I didn't know there was a running argument or anything.
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Apr 13, 2011 23:07
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One of these days I'm gonna have to finish the game so I can go back and read all those spoilers.
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Apr 13, 2011 23:08
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Saint Sputnik posted:One of these days I'm gonna have to finish the game so I can go back and read all those spoilers. It's nothing big, just how at the end Marston turns out to be a time traveling Tommy Vercetti, and then aliens show up, which sets up the sequel.
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Apr 13, 2011 23:10
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doctor 7 posted:Thanks for confirming my point, I guess. The problem is the scriptwriters watched far too much deadwood and read too much Game of Thrones. The new hotness is treating your characters like garbage to 'shock' the audience into how hardcore you are. The fact that people will rationalize the unsatisfying wrapup is just an attempt to think that the unsatisfying must somehow be deep. The story didn't have to be written as it was, the scriptwriters had every freedom to do whatever they wanted to do with it. But at the same time, the tone of the game changes significantly through the three acts. They say it's because the first is an homage to classic westerns, the second to spaghetti westerns, and the third to 'modern' westerns. I think the changes in tone are pretty jarring and it feels more like 3 distinct short games, than one cohesive game. And the ending is yet ANOTHER change in tone that doesn't make sense and somehow doesn't fit with the story they chose to write. Honestly, my liking for RDR went from 95% in the first act, to about 80% in the second act, to about 50% in the third act. Which mirrors my dislike for modern westerns and the pointless cruelty. It's like the whole point is "gently caress you for caring about ANYTHING or wanting a neat wrap up, this is real life, hard core mothafucka" and that just gets old. Anyway, I still would have been fine with a gently caress you ending, as it wasn't unexpected, but the way it was done was yet another gently caress you attempt to rub your nose in the idea that there are no happy endings. At least that's what it felt like to me, and that's why I didn't like it.
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Apr 13, 2011 23:26
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Rakthar posted:The problem is the scriptwriters Whoa there bro, I don't think the writers were out to get you personally or anything. I didn't get the sense at all that the writers were going for "no happy endings HAHAHA" they were trying to show the cycle of violence and revenge. Where a violent upbringing begins and why it happens. I know a lot of people weren't a fan of Jack, but the game could have easily started with you playing as Jack. The farm could have been the tutorial level and the game progresses as you track down those responsible for murdering your father and tearing apart your fragile family. That's what I got the sense of anyway, showing how lust for vengeance is started and carried out. I know this is going to sound like I'm trying to be a condescending rear end in a top hat but I kind of feel bad that you disliked the story so much. It's pretty obvious it could have been pulled off in half the amount of missions (even excluding the tutorial levels) but it's still a game and it still has to be fun.
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Apr 14, 2011 04:16
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Rakthar posted:The problem is the scriptwriters watched far too much deadwood and read too much Game of Thrones. The new hotness is treating your characters like garbage to 'shock' the audience into how hardcore you are. The fact that people will rationalize the unsatisfying wrapup is just an attempt to think that the unsatisfying must somehow be deep. However the distinct flaws for me were repetitious dialog (the "DO I HAVE A CHOICE"/"MY FAMILY" poo poo gets pretty tedious, by the 10th time it just felt like amateur hour) and Ross coming back for Marston was handled. The stupid thing is the former could have been solved by just dropping the repetitive lines. The latter could been fixed by 10-15 seconds of additional dialog using any of the assumptions made on the story's behalf in this thread. Everything people have posted have been reasonable and would work. Two easy fixes and you could have an otherwise flawless game. Well except for the Euphora engine making it frustrating as hell to perform precision movements (like getting through a door when you just missed it). fennesz posted:Whoa there bro, I don't think the writers were out to get you personally or anything.
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Apr 14, 2011 04:19
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Consider how nine out of ten sheriffs/lawmen in this game world deal with criminals. I'll give you a hint, it involves bullets. Marston explains this fact in the introductory cutscene at Fort Mercer. The government pays the lawmen to shoot bad guys, lawmen and bounty hunters chase you and shoot you for criminal acts, lawmen ask you to shoot bad guys, pay you bounty to shoot bad guys, Ricketts encourages shooting bad guys, he's a hero because he shot dudes, multiple side stories and story missions involve shooting bad guys (as defined by theft, murder, etc.). Regarding the ending, the game drat near spells it out to you in the introduction; Marston has to kill a criminal. How does anyone believe Ross is ever telling the truth about letting Marston go free? I guess if someone missed the multiple portrayals of good lawmen, neutral lawmen, and corrupt lawmen all killing 'bad guys'. Seriously, this is middle-school level foreshadowing. e: I guess I'll actually finish my post before pressing post. I liked the story and presentation, but I feel like Rockstar is too heavy handed with their themes. I would have been far more surprised if John died on a grand train heist or something. It ends up being boring and unexciting. More importantly, the ending falls emotionally flat for some becuase of its juvenile presentation. satanic splash-back fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Apr 14, 2011 |
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Apr 14, 2011 04:30
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Pickled Kittens posted:Seriously, this is middle-school level foreshadowing. Just because it was blatant doesn't mean it was ineffective.
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Apr 14, 2011 04:33
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I liked the story but I still would have preferred it if Marston was a bad guy instead for most of the game if not the whole thing. Or the player got a choice. I really hope there is a Red Dead Redemption 2 someday. There are a lot of directions they could take a sequel and a lot of things they can improve. The most important thing I really want in RDR2 is the content creator that Infamous 2 is getting and a more streamlined multiplayer that is faster for getting into competitive matches and co-op.
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Apr 14, 2011 04:40
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Personally I liked how Marston wasn't a giant wanton criminal. GTAIV Niko has genuine emotion in cutscenes which are completely opposite of how the missions play where you unrelentingly slaughter tons of good guys.
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Apr 14, 2011 04:44
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doctor 7 posted:Euphora engine making it frustrating as hell to perform precision movements (like getting through a door when you just missed it). Oh man this. THIS. I can spend 30 seconds trying to go through a door or climb on a crate or something.
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Apr 14, 2011 05:26
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Saint Sputnik posted:Oh man this. THIS. I can spend 30 seconds trying to go through a door or climb on a crate or something. Agreed, I love Euphoria for collision-based physics, but not all around. It would be cool if they could sort of switch it off and on. I wish every game was as responsive as Infamous...
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Apr 14, 2011 08:29
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I always thought the ending was more of a statement on how Ross was an emasculated character. Ross mistakes bureaucracy for civilization and simply does as he's told. For such a tough guy, he's essentially just hired help like Marston is but without illusion of choice. Marston could always tell his fellow gang members to go screw but Ross doesn't even have that. His worship of 'civilization' is just him following orders. That's why at the end why he cannot leave the job: his retirement is nothing more than having a longer leash that allows him to be in Mexico fishing instead of truly well-away from his job so he can keep coming back to it. Ross is a parallel to John Marston because they're both paid killers. The only difference that civilization makes is that it removes any sense of choice. When he faces his maker, Marston at least had a choice of going this route and trying to avoid it. Ross just gave it up and leaves nothing behind, not even a child.
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Apr 14, 2011 11:31
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Sco Dylan posted:Agreed, I love Euphoria for collision-based physics, but not all around. It would be cool if they could sort of switch it off and on.
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Apr 14, 2011 11:42
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doctor 7 posted:I admit I find it pretty infuriating when I can get through a door but God drat if I don't forgive the game when I shoot someone off their horse, only to have their foot get caught on a stirrup as their steed takes off in fear. The best is when there's a sudden turn and they get loving LAUNCHED. One time I was on the hills above the river diving the US and Mexico. Guy was catapult into in and it was glorious. Oh yeah that also reminds me. Next game, Marston should know how to loving swim. And then, since in my mind it'll be a prequel, he should get hit on the head in the end and announce that he forgot how to swim.
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Apr 14, 2011 14:13
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Saint Sputnik posted:Oh yeah that also reminds me. Next game, Marston should know how to loving swim. How is he going to swim when he's got pounds of equipment and leather on him? If anything, the lack of swimming is more fitting here as a cowboy dressed in chaps, boots, and leathers would sink even if they knew how to swim.
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Apr 14, 2011 17:59
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:How is he going to swim when he's got pounds of equipment and leather on him? If anything, the lack of swimming is more fitting here as a cowboy dressed in chaps, boots, and leathers would sink even if they knew how to swim. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason he couldn't swim was to prevent people from going to Mexico early.
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Apr 14, 2011 18:57
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Spacebump posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason he couldn't swim was to prevent people from going to Mexico early. Then have, like, a fast stream in the middle that carries you away, but otherwise you don't insta-die as soon as dip your toe in. I'm tired of scrabbling up the steep banks of all the water around Thieves' Landing in a desperate bid to not die. e: Playing for the next couple hours or so if anyone wants to jump in (GT AudreyHeartburn) Saint Sputnik fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Apr 14, 2011 |
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Apr 14, 2011 19:10
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Saint Sputnik posted:Then have, like, a fast stream in the middle that carries you away, but otherwise you don't insta-die as soon as dip your toe in. I'm tired of scrabbling up the steep banks of all the water around Thieves' Landing in a desperate bid to not die. 
melon cat fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Apr 15, 2011 |
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Apr 14, 2011 19:31
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melon cat posted:Not a bad diea. But I think a stream with infinitely-spawning bears would be more awesome. OK, this, but if only for the opportunity to go dynamite fishing for grizzly. I can see it now, tossing a lit stick into the water, and backing up just enough to see a fountain of water and bears rise up like old faithful in hell. I'd pay $10 just to be able to do this.
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Apr 14, 2011 19:49
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CzarChasm posted:OK, this, but if only for the opportunity to go dynamite fishing for grizzly. Huh. Is this game on the PC? Is it modable? Also, which of you is doctor 7?
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Apr 15, 2011 00:31
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Saint Sputnik posted:Huh. Is this game on the PC? Is it modable?
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Apr 15, 2011 01:07
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doctor 7 posted:That would be me I didn't recognize it as a forum name but I def. recognize your av.
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Apr 15, 2011 02:10
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Jesus I just got a random event I didn't even know existed in Thieves Landing a swarm of bats descended on the town, I didn't even know bats existed outside of Undead Nightmare 
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Apr 15, 2011 18:36
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fennesz posted:Jesus I just got a random event I didn't even know existed in Thieves Landing a swarm of bats descended on the town, I didn't even know bats existed outside of Undead Nightmare
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Apr 15, 2011 18:48
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Looks like there's a triple XP weekend on the 360. I just booted up the single player and got a little prompt for it  E: Hahah jesus, 1400XP for doing Critchley's Ranch. Beeb fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Apr 15, 2011 |
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Apr 15, 2011 21:26
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Time to play some RDR this weekend it looks like.
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Apr 15, 2011 21:38
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fennesz posted:Jesus I just got a random event I didn't even know existed in Thieves Landing a swarm of bats descended on the town, I didn't even know bats existed outside of Undead Nightmare I once had a ton of bats flood out of the cellar door in that big old mansion looking place out west. Tumbleweed?
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Apr 15, 2011 21:52
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Capn Beeb posted:Looks like there's a triple XP weekend on the 360. I just booted up the single player and got a little prompt for it loving finally. Gonna be playing the hell out of this so I can finally get back to Level 50. What's the fastest way to grind XP these days? I had Pike's Basin down to a solid 7 minutes, but I haven't played since the new mini-hideouts were added. Is Pike's still my best bet or is there a more effective grind?
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Apr 15, 2011 22:58
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Peas and Rice posted:loving finally. Gonna be playing the hell out of this so I can finally get back to Level 50. Pike's your best bet as the other new hideouts are minimal at best.
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Apr 15, 2011 23:08
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Is it all XP or just mission XP?
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Apr 16, 2011 00:03
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