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AJE is reporting 120 rockets were fired into Misarata today, on top of the 200 that were fired into Misarata yesterday.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 10:23 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 22:05 |
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MothraAttack posted:Did anyone else see the state TV video of Gaddafi fist-pumping in an SUV around Tripoli? A dude appears to faceplant off a moving vehicle at the end. Quick! We need some propaganda video to show on tv, stat! Uhhh, all we have left is the one from last year where Bouba falls off and consequently gets run over by G's truc... I SAID WE NEED A VIDEO, CUT IT AND AIR IT!!!
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 10:47 |
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Speaking of videos, a couple from Misarata via the Guardian:quote:The BBC has a video report from a hospital in Misrata. It shows a six-year-old girl who had 30 pieces of shrapnel removed from her body after her home was bombed. Doctors say if any more patients arrive they will have to be treated on the floor. quote:New video footage has emerged that appears to show the latest fighting in the port city of Misrata. This film uploaded to YouTube today purports to show clashes on Tripoli street.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 11:44 |
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Couple of articles worth a read:quote:The Economist has an interesting piece on how the Libyan rebels in Benghazi are going about trying to set up a functioning state. quote:More on the situation in the besieged city of Misurata by Amnesty International’s crisis researcher Donatella Rovera: In Misurata, a city under siege.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 13:26 |
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Guardian Libya Summary for today:quote:• Eight people have been killed in the western city of Misrata, after government forces bombarded the besieged city with Grad rockets again, a doctor at a local hospital told al-Jazeera. One person was reported killed in Ajdabiya, in the east of the country, when Gaddafi's forces opened fire on opposition soldiers on the western edge of the city.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 14:13 |
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quote:Two small boats carrying five Libyan army officers and 13 other people from Libya arrived in a southern Tunisian port on Friday, Tunisia's state TAP news agency reported: It'll be interesting to see what ranks they are.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 16:07 |
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This video is quite popular today. Allegedly shows rebel mistreatment of Gaddafi soldiers that surrendered (hanging, beheading, mutilation): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkcMgPsB3Gs&skipcontrinter=1
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 16:36 |
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pwnyXpress posted:This video is quite popular today. Allegedly shows rebel mistreatment of Gaddafi soldiers that surrendered (hanging, beheading, mutilation): I remember a while ago a rebel 'leader' (for as far they exist apparently) called upon the rebel 'forces' not to take prisoners. Gaddafi troops were to either defect or die. I guess some are taking that just a bit too seriously.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 16:42 |
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pwnyXpress posted:This video is quite popular today. Allegedly shows rebel mistreatment of Gaddafi soldiers that surrendered (hanging, beheading, mutilation): I've read that it's a couple of months old, back before the TNC existed and the rebels were organised, although I've not seen it confirmed.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 16:46 |
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I don't have trouble believing the video is real or that they would mistreat prisoners, but the upload history of that guy's youtube channel is making me doubt it.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 16:48 |
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Man, that video's description is gold. But yeah, I'd guess it's from the beginning of the uprising in Benghazi when after live ammunition was employed against protesters angry mobs attacked and torched institutions associated with the oppressive regime. No idea what that building was exactly but they were obviously pretty angry at the people within, especially that one guy!
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 21:44 |
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What's that, Alan Kuperman? HRW says that Gaddafi is not massacring civilians?http://articles.boston.com/2011-04-14/bostonglobe/29418371_1_rebel-stronghold-civilians-rebel-positions posted:EVIDENCE IS now in that President Barack Obama grossly exaggerated the humanitarian threat to justify military action in Libya. The president claimed that intervention was necessary to prevent a “bloodbath’’ in Benghazi, Libya’s second-largest city and last rebel stronghold. Hmm http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/04/10/libya-government-attacks-misrata-kill-civilians posted:Attacks by Libyan government forces in the western city of Misrata have endangered civilians and targeted a medical clinic in violation of international law, Human Rights Watch said today. And from today http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/world/africa/16libya.html?_r=1&hp posted:MISURATA, Libya — Military forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, who have surrounded this city and vowed to crush its anti-Qaddafi rebellion, have been firing into residential neighborhoods with heavy weapons, including cluster bombs that have been banned by much of the world and ground-to-ground rockets, according to the accounts of witnesses and survivors and physical evidence on the ground.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 21:54 |
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Xandu posted:What's that, Alan Kuperman? Kuperman is the worst. His whole shtick is that the majority of genocides and ethnic cleansings since WWII were mostly caused by rebel groups who were willing to sacrifice their own in a gamble for Western intervention (this is his take on the Rwandan genocide, AFAIK). He even compares it to insurance practices.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 23:17 |
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He calls him Khadafy? That has to be the most inaccurate pronunciation ever.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 23:45 |
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Ham posted:He calls him Khadafy? It's the Boston Globe's decision, but yeah.
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# ? Apr 15, 2011 23:48 |
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From the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13102164quote:Glancing around the hospital ward full of broken bodies, a weary Libyan surgeon gave his explanation of the conflict in the besieged city of Misrata. I'm glad reporters are finally getting inside Misrata. And HRW has some pictures of the weapons at http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/04/15/libya-cluster-munitions-strike-misrata
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 09:40 |
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This should go down well for the conspiracy minded: http://i51.tinypic.com/24lob5v.jpg
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 11:11 |
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CeeJee posted:This should go down well for the conspiracy minded: Why's that? Looks like a standard 81mm illumination round. Edit: Further googling leads me to believe it is a British 81mm illumination round of French manufacture. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Apr 16, 2011 |
# ? Apr 16, 2011 11:41 |
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Why's that? Looks like a standard 81mm illumination round. Star of David looking symbol as the manufacturing company's logo.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 12:11 |
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Young Freud posted:Star of David looking symbol as the manufacturing company's logo. I think that's a symbol to represent that it is a parachute illumination round.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 12:12 |
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I think that's a symbol to represent that it is a parachute illumination round. Oh, I can see it now, with the crescent shape as the parachute and the star as a light. But, just say, the star resembles the six-pointed Star of David (although it doesn't have the negative space the David shield has), and that can spawn some conspiracy theories. Remember that the proposed Iraq flag in 2004 was linked to Israel because it had a lot of blue and white in it.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 12:24 |
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National Democratic Party (Egypt's ruling party for over 33 years) has just been dissolved by law!http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/04/2011416125051889315.html posted:An Egyptian court has dissolved the former ruling National Democratic Party (NDP) and ordered its funds and property to be handed over to the government. Very interesting, this basically leaves the Muslim Brotherhood as the most powerful and organized voting force on the scene right now. NDP officials have said they will appeal the ruling.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 15:29 |
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Ham posted:National Democratic Party (Egypt's ruling party for over 33 years) has just been dissolved by law! So much for democracy. Regardless of how bad the NDP may have been, it should have been up to the population of Egypt to decide via election votes if the party was worth keeping around or not.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 17:03 |
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Jut posted:So much for democracy. Regardless of how bad the NDP may have been, it should have been up to the population of Egypt to decide via election votes if the party was worth keeping around or not. You're entering into the realm of self parody. After 40 years of single party rule pretending there is a split between the dictatorial government and the party it uses as a means for power is absurd. farraday fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Apr 16, 2011 |
# ? Apr 16, 2011 17:09 |
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Jut posted:So much for democracy. Regardless of how bad the NDP may have been, it should have been up to the population of Egypt to decide via election votes if the party was worth keeping around or not. Here's excerpts from the DA's official report on the case: quote:It got dissolved for "....the NDP has ignored and stepped away from the principles and values behind it's founding; which resulted in social dysfunction, political corruption and the abuse and elimination of rights and freedoms provided by the Egyptian constitution which pushed the Egyptian people into revolting in the 25th of January Revolution.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 17:30 |
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Huh. New avatar, Ham? This is good news. I was very concerned that the NDP might get voted back into office. The devil you know, after all. It's not uncommon, as I seem to recall from both Germany post WWII and Iraq: after a period like that, they're the only people who know how to run things. On the other hand, well, you have to watch out for the Neo-NDP reforming, and you still have the Muslim Brotherhood to watch out for. I hope that you guys are forming a strong central party of your own.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 21:41 |
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Picture from Misrata. edit: and accompanying NYT article Xandu fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Apr 16, 2011 |
# ? Apr 16, 2011 21:44 |
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That's a great article, it's amazing the rebels have held onto Misarata for as long as they have.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 22:00 |
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farraday posted:You're entering into the realm of self parody. I never said there was a split, and don't pretend to imagine there is, but banning political parties goes against the spirit of democracy. They, like anyone else should have been given the right to stand for election and let the people decide, not the courts. Banning them is little different to how the MB were banned under Mubarak's rule. Anyway given the NDP's performance in the 2000 and 2005 elections, I doubt had they been allowed to stand that they would have taken a significant proportion of the vote. Here in Romania the communist party was dissolved shortly after the revolution, the former communist party members just reformed under new banners and wormed there way back into power. Had they been allowed to stand as representatives of the Communist party, then post revolution Romania may have turned out better then it did. I'm also worried that after the MB playing the god card to sway the "yes" vote on the referendum, that they, without any major opposition, will win the election by a landslide. Say goodbye to any hope of a secular Egypt.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 22:11 |
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Jut posted:I never said there was a split, and don't pretend to imagine there is, but banning political parties goes against the spirit of democracy. They, like anyone else should have been given the right to stand for election and let the people decide, not the courts. Banning them is little different to how the MB were banned under Mubarak's rule. Anyway given the NDP's performance in the 2000 and 2005 elections, I doubt had they been allowed to stand that they would have taken a significant proportion of the vote. Jut I think you're thinking too much of this. The NDP itself is dissolved but it's members can join any other party/form other parties and still work in politics, they're not banned from political work/office. Also there's rumors the military will employ a system in the next parliamentary elections where you vote for a party, not for an individual so that if MB gets 4 million out of 20 million party votes they get 20% of the seats, so every vote "counts" as opposed to the system where you elect a certain individual. However this would shut the door in front of independents. Ham fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 16, 2011 |
# ? Apr 16, 2011 22:19 |
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Brown Moses posted:That's a great article, it's amazing the rebels have held onto Misarata for as long as they have. The part about harnessing sand, "dirt is their friend," and the guy playing Good Riddance... Wow. Good article.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 22:20 |
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Jut posted:I never said there was a split, and don't pretend to imagine there is, but banning political parties goes against the spirit of democracy. They, like anyone else should have been given the right to stand for election and let the people decide, not the courts. Banning them is little different to how the MB were banned under Mubarak's rule. Anyway given the NDP's performance in the 2000 and 2005 elections, I doubt had they been allowed to stand that they would have taken a significant proportion of the vote. I'm sorry but you're full of it. The people should have the right to decide but in your home country it was bad they banned the party it reformed under new banners that didn't have the taint of the old and they got elected, which meant the people were wrong. Except if they did that they might not be wrong since the NDP is the only group which can save us from the MB. Your hard core concern for democracy isn't even skin deep. Trying to claim that removing the single political party which was so tied into a corrupt regime its entire leadership is under investigation/house arrest for corruption and other crimes is the exact same as banning any other political party is fraught with blind reductionism.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 22:31 |
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farraday posted:Except if they did that they might not be wrong since the NDP is the only group which can save us from the MB. The only thing stopping the MB or more extreme islamists from gaining a majority in parliament at this point is the military, the NDP wouldn't have stood a chance. It's better that the NDP has now dissolved so people can rally behind other secular parties to face-off against the MB instead of supporting the NDP against them.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 22:34 |
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farraday posted:I'm sorry but you're full of it. The people should have the right to decide but in your home country it was bad they banned the party it reformed under new banners that didn't have the taint of the old and they got elected, which meant the people were wrong. b) Prevent the people who are guilty of crimes (if they are found guilty), from running in an election, don't start screaming for freedom while at the same time partaking in similar actions as the NDP did in '53 and beyond (yes I know it wasn't called the NDP in '53, but it was pretty much the same party)
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 23:38 |
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Jut posted:a) Romania isn't my home country, I'm only here for work. No so-called political party should ever be banned, check. Meanwhile over here in reality we have a different standard than "if anything is even remotely similar at all to any bad thing, it is a bad thing." The NDP was no more a political party than the Ba'ath party or the Nationalist party of Chiang Kai Shek era Taiwan. It's simply the nominally political machinery of the dictatorship. Pretending it's simply a political party the same as any other when it has been a crucial element of maintaining rule in an era where Constitutional law has been overridden by a perpetual state of emergency is a willful rejection of reality.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 23:47 |
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There's claims tonight that Gaddafi troops crossed into Tunisia briefly, and ended up killing one Tunisian soldier and injuring 3 others, should be interesting to see if that's actually true.
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# ? Apr 16, 2011 23:55 |
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Brown Moses posted:There's claims tonight that Gaddafi troops crossed into Tunisia briefly, and ended up killing one Tunisian soldier and injuring 3 others, should be interesting to see if that's actually true. That would be the last straw. If that is true, and the Libyan civil war is spilling out into other countries, I can see an actual military intervention with regime change as its goal being the only solution.
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# ? Apr 17, 2011 00:01 |
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farraday posted:No so-called political party should ever be banned, check. Meanwhile over here in reality we have a different standard than "if anything is even remotely similar at all to any bad thing, it is a bad thing." So a party is OK as long as you think they are not bad? This isn't an issue for the courts to decide in a free country, it's for the population to decide. Ham, do you know anything else about the political power plays going on over there? Does it look like the military council may make a play for power during the elections? Any chance of them pulling a Iliescu?
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# ? Apr 17, 2011 00:06 |
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Jut posted:So a party is OK as long as you think they are not bad? quote:Here in Romania the communist party was dissolved shortly after the revolution, the former communist party members just reformed under new banners and wormed there way back into power. Had they been allowed to stand as representatives of the Communist party, then post revolution Romania may have turned out better then it did. quote:I'm also worried that after the MB playing the god card to sway the "yes" vote on the referendum, that they, without any major opposition, will win the election by a landslide. Say goodbye to any hope of a secular Egypt. If you were anywhere near consistent your so called commitment to democracy would be laudable instead of clearly a smoke screen for you to complain about every single drat thing. Single party states don't have real political structures, they have oppression/submission structures. Acting like the NDP is a real political party is as stupid as treating anything called an election as democracy or thinking the title President means the person holding it was fairly elected. You're freely arguing for the corruption of any and all political processes because you can't recognize any difference between things that are called by the same name. You need to have your depth perception checked.
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# ? Apr 17, 2011 00:22 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 22:05 |
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farraday posted:So democracy is a failure if the MB or the new communist party is voted into power, but judging a party as bad isn't right. quote:If you were anywhere near consistent your so called commitment to democracy would be laudable instead of clearly a smoke screen for you to complain about every single drat thing. quote:You're freely arguing for the corruption of any and all political processes because you can't recognize any difference between things that are called by the same name. You need to have your depth perception checked.
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# ? Apr 17, 2011 02:04 |