Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Interview with Eman al-Obeidi

quote:

On 26 March Eman al-Obeidi forced her way into the Rixos hotel in Gaddafi's heartland, Tripoli.

Before the world's cameras, hotel staff and secret policemen forcibly held back the media, smashed cameras and tried to silence Obeidi as she screamed allegations that she had been beaten and gang-raped by men loyal to Colonel Gaddafi.

Eventually she was forced into an unmarked car and driven away from the hotel grounds leaving the stunned journalists, and the watching world, behind her.

After weeks of confusion about her fate, during which she was denounced by the state as being drunk, mentally ill and a traitor she eventually managed to escape to Qatar with the aid of a defecting Libyan official.

Foreign Affairs Correspondent Jonathan Miller met Eman al-Obeidi in Qatar's capital Doha, where she has been able to talk freely for the first time and Channel 4 News has heard her story in full.

She said: "I was kidnapped two days before I came to the hotel. I was kidnapped by Gaddafi's people at a checkpoint - 12 to 15 people took me.

"When I entered the car there was another woman in there who had also been kidnapped. They took us to a place, it seemed like a big farm. When we went inside there was another woman who had also been kidnapped.

"My hands and my legs were tied up - and for two days we didn't get any food or water. I was not allowed to use the toilet. They were raping me, one by one. One would finish and then another would come.

"They tied my hands to stop me resisting while they raped me."

During the interview Obeidi also makes clear the motive for the assault was the fact she came from eastern rebel-held Libya.

She explained: "During the attack they insulted people from the east. I was asking them 'What did I do wrong?' I didn't do anything, all I did wrong was being from the east. That was clearly stated in my ID.

"They told me 'where are the men from the east? Let them come and see what we do to their women. Let them see how we rape their women, and humiliate them.'

"They used weapons while having sex with me. Everything they did was bad, and they kept saying 'we are the Gaddafis, we will stay in power.'"

Jonathan Miller was one of the journalists who tried to defend Obeidi at the Rixos Hotel when she appeared. She told him of her reasons for daring to break into the hotel.

"At that moment I was so frightened - if they were not scared of the journalists and cameras, and the whole world watching, then what would stop them killing me?

"I knew it would happen, no matter what. But I was satisfied that at least I created a scandal. I didn't want to keep silent about what happened to me. They have to pay the price for what they did."

For weeks worldwide audiences begged to know what happened to her after the government officials took her from the hotel.

Obeidi described the moments: "When they took me off in the car, they were driving so fast and I was so scared. They didn't take me to one place - they just drove around.

"They stopped at one point to pick up someone. This person told me he was from security, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and they were going to buy me new clothes.

"They changed my clothes and said they would take me to a Libya TV channel and wanted me to change my story. They wanted me to say that the journalists had got it wrong, and that the rebels were the ones that kidnapped me.

"I was bold and I refused - so they took me to jail."

After many interviews with the police station, she was released but Obeidi was consigned to an effective house arrest during which she says she was beaten and held further by security forces.

"They followed me in the street, when I was home, and they beat me.

"The street was like a highway, so it was difficult to stop cars because they were driving fast, but they still stopped me.

"They kidnapped me and took me to the police station."

Eventually she managed to flee Libya to Tunisia, with the aid of a defecting military officer. Only once outside did she realise the world wide attention that had been focused on her, and gives thanks to those who followed her story.

"I thank the whole world for their concern and for following my case and helping me even though they don't know me."

quote:

NATO Maritime assets thwart another attack on Misrata by pro-Qadhafi forces.

In the early hours of 16 May, maritime forces engaged in the NATO-led Operation Unified Protector detected two rigid-hull inflatable boats (RHIBs) that appeared to have deployed from the vicinity of Zlintan and were headed towards Misrata. NATO forces reacted by sending warships and helicopters to investigate and identify the RHIBs.

As NATO forces made their approach, one RHIB stopped in the water as the second escaped at high speed to the West, towards Zlintan.

An explosive ordnance disposal team from an allied warship was deployed to inspect the abandoned RHIB and discovered a large quantity of explosives (approximately one tonne) and two human mannequins. In view of the obvious threat posed by the explosives, the decision was made to destroy the RHIB at sea. This was carried out by the allied warship using small arms fire.

This incident bore similarities with a recent incident, where pro-Qadhafi forces laid sea-mines in the approaches to the port of Misrata. However this is the first evidence of an attempt to use an improvised explosive device with decoy human mannequins to threaten commercial shipping and humanitarian aid in the area of Misrata.

This is also the third incident in recent weeks where pro-Qadhafi forces have been active on the seas, a change in their operations that signifies their continued intent to bring harm to civilians or to attack NATO vessels.

NATO repeats its warning to the people of Libya to stay away from any military equipment including aircraft, vessels, vehicles and installations.

Could someone explain the two human mannequins?

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 15:51 on May 16, 2011

# ? May 16, 2011 15:42

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# ? May 23, 2024 10:12

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

So it doesn't look empty from far away.

# ? May 16, 2011 16:19

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

So one was towing the other? And why would they want to convince a huge warship that they had two more people in the boat, as some sort of decoy if they had to make a quick getaway?

Reuters has a short bit on psychological warfare being used at the moment:

quote:

NATO is broadcasting messages to Gaddafi�s forces on Libyan army radio frequencies. The broadcast tells them that foreign mercenaries are raping the Libyan people and it urges them to give up.

�Nobody has the right to make the lives of their people a living hell,� says the broadcast, heard by Reuters on a Libyan army radio taken by rebels in the Western Mountains.

�Stop fighting against your own people,� it continues, saying that the Libyan leadership has lost control and recruited non-Libyan mercenaries �and allowed them to rape your people.�

The threat of rape and the role of foreign mercenaries are issues frequently brought up by refugees who have fled fighting in the rebel-held Western Mountains and by the rebels who stayed behind.

The Libyan government has denied recruiting mercenaries and says its forces are not targeting civilians. Officials say they are fighting armed criminal gangs and al Qaeda militants who are trying to ruin the country.

NATO warplanes, acting under a United Nations mandate to protect civilians, have stopped government troops advancing on rebel strongholds but not silenced their guns, and Gaddafi remains in power.

Fighting on several fronts has come to a near-standstill.

Asked about the broadcasts, a NATO official told Reuters: �NATO is being responsible in informing the Libyan people though public service announcements to ensure the civilian population remain as safe as possible.�

The message, played on loop, is broadcast in English and Arabic spoken with an Iraqi accent.

�You have a choice,� it says. �Build a peaceful Libya for the benefit of your family and a better future for your country.� Otherwise, the air strikes which began on March 19 will continue, it warns.

The broadcast features a woman saying, �Why, my son, why do you kill our people?� A crying child says, �Dad, come home, stop fighting.�

I had two Libya asylum seekers arrive today (I work for a company that houses them), both seemed very happy to be here, especially as one of them had been shot twice. We've started to see more and more come in over the last couple of weeks, although not large amounts. Hopefully they'll be able to return home to a better life soon.

Also, I wish I knew where "Tawarga" was, because apparently the rebels have captured.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 16:49 on May 16, 2011

# ? May 16, 2011 16:30

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Brown Moses posted:

So one was towing the other? And why would they want to convince a huge warship that they had two more people in the boat, as some sort of decoy if they had to make a quick getaway?

Maybe the plan was to get to visual range of the harbour, then rig the boat to drive on a direct course and detonate remotely or with timer or collision? The mannequins would make it look more like business as usual than an empty boat approaching on its own...

# ? May 16, 2011 17:03

Ballz: Dec 16, 2003; it's mario time

So I'm sure the big question on everyone's minds right now is... what does Ben Stein think about all this?

"CBS News posted:

Ben Stein: "Arab Spring" is a fraud

Now, I am going to tell you the truth about the so-called "Arab Spring," and about the Middle East generally right now.

First, the "Arab Spring" as a force for democracy, human rights and peace in Egypt seems to me to be a fraud.

The dictator and his entourage who were kicked out in Egypt were pro-West, a bit restrained on Israel, open to free enterprise, and resistant to Iranian-sponsored terror.

Egypt is now rapidly becoming anti-Israel, pro-Iran, pro the Iranian-sponsored terrorist group Hamas, and very far from being pro-human rights. They are arresting businessmen right and left in Egypt just for the crime of being successful. They have arrested Mubarak's sons, and have said they plan to try Mubarak.

The most potent of the political forces in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood, hates the United States, loathes Israel, condemns the killing of bin Laden (whom they praised as a martyr), and have been wedded to terror for their entire existence.

Oh, P.S, they are closely connected with Adolph Hitler.

They will probably take over Egypt completely sooner or later.

As the terrorist government of Syria cracks down on its own people, the U.N. Security Council does exactly nothing about it.

Has anyone noticed that the common denominator of all the successful Arab street movements is that they are sympathetic to Iran? When the dust settles, Iran is going to own the Middle East - except for maybe Saudi Arabia, if we have the guts to help them (which I very much doubt).

We are going to lose our pals in Bahrain - not nice guys, but pals of the U.S.A. anyway - and we are going to lose our pals in Yemen, and it will possibly have an actual al Qaeda government.

There is a gigantic regional coup by Iran taking place. We are doing very little, if anything, to stop it.

We are going to regret helping the Egyptians kick out Mubarak as much as we regret helping Khomeini force out the Shah.

You can call it "Arab Spring" if you want. But with Iran now the regional superpower, it is a lot more like an extremely bleak Mideast winter.

You heard it here first.

Thought a little bit of :godwin:

and a whole lotta :derp:

would give you a bit of a giggle for the day.

# ? May 16, 2011 17:14

A Winner is Jew: Feb 14, 2008; by exmarx

Ballz posted:

So I'm sure the big question on everyone's minds right now is... what does Ben Stein think about all this?

Thought a little bit of and a whole lotta would give you a bit of a giggle for the day.

I thought Ben Stein was cool because he put his own money on the line for people to win on a game show. Then I read about his politics. :eng99:

# ? May 16, 2011 17:17

King Dopplepopolos: Aug 3, 2007; Give us a raise, loser!

To plagiarize Joe Biden, any sentence uttered by Ben Stein has three things: a noun, a verb and Hitler.

# ? May 16, 2011 18:25

neamp: Jun 24, 2003

Brown Moses posted:

Also, I wish I knew where "Tawarga" was, because apparently the rebels have captured.

Wikipedia has it as Taworgha and bing maps knows it as Tawurgha'. They place the center at different spots though so I don't know which group of buildings there is considered the city proper.
Google Earth/Maps doesn't have it at all, in general their record of Libyan towns is pretty terrible. More than half seem to be missing to begin with, then others are listed twice in two variants with the markers a kilometre apart. Which is usually hovering over a patch of desert only somewhat close to the town it belongs to anyway.

Edit: Reports now that there is still fighting in Tawurgha ("at Allam", yay for more obscure locations), so not really taken yet it seems.

neamp fucked around with this message at 18:36 on May 16, 2011

# ? May 16, 2011 18:30

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

Brown Moses posted:

Reuters has a short bit on psychological warfare being used at the moment:

Probably Compass Call which is loving awesome.

# ? May 16, 2011 18:34

Mad Doctor Cthulhu: Mar 3, 2008

Brown Moses posted:

With Saif being named as a war crime suspect it'll shut down any chance of a negoiated settlement with Saif as some sort of temporary leader, something the regime would probably have demanded if Gaddafi had left. With that option gone it would seem the only way to resolve the conflict is to get rid of the entire Gaddafi family, and I'm sure his inner circle is probably thinking that the only way to survive the revolution and stay free is to turn on the Gaddafi family, something I'm sure those members of the international community in contact with Gaddafi's allies will be focusing on during their conversations.

I also expect Gaddafi's family are paranoid as gently caress now, so being an ally probably isn't as fun or easy as it used to be, which will hopefully push them even further apart.

Let's be fair: there is no way in hell any member of that Family was going to remain in charge. The time for that to realistically happen was when the revolution started and before they started killing off people. For the Gaddafis to really expect a truce to be taken seriously after all of this shows how loving out of touch they are. There are two choices they have: they can either beg openly for asylum and run like hell, or they can be executed. Given how far this has gone, I would not be surprised to see Twitpics of them in a bloody pile on fire.

A Winner is Jew posted:

I thought Ben Stein was cool because he put his own money on the line for people to win on a game show. Then I read about his politics.

Ben Stein's insanity can be summed up like this: He went from a speechwriter for one of the worst presidents in history, then salvaged himself by acting in a lot of things, and THEN threw that all away just to speak out in favor of Nixon and his own insanity for absolutely nothing but his reputation, his job, and a lot of money.

In short? The man's a loving idiot.

# ? May 16, 2011 18:47

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Brown Moses posted:

Also, I wish I knew where "Tawarga" was, because apparently the rebels have captured.

I think it's Taworgha, which is south of Misarata. My guess is that the rebels in Misarata (or just in general) are going forming a second front against the Qaddafi forces in Sirte.

# ? May 16, 2011 19:04

Ireland Sucks: May 16, 2004

Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:

Ben Stein's insanity can be summed up like this: He went from a speechwriter for one of the worst presidents in history, then salvaged himself by acting in a lot of things, and THEN threw that all away just to speak out in favor of Nixon and his own insanity for absolutely nothing but his reputation, his job, and a lot of money.

In short? The man's a loving idiot.

I was thinking 'what? how can the man who did Religulous be this much of a whackjob?'. Then I realised which documentary was actually supposed to spring to mind when I see his name. What a terrible man.

# ? May 16, 2011 21:09

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

King Dopplepopolos posted:

To plagiarize Joe Biden, any sentence uttered by Ben Stein has three things: a noun, a verb and Hitler.

Oh yeah. Biden might not be the most tactful guy ever, but stuff like this is awesome.

# ? May 16, 2011 21:12

shotgunbadger: Nov 18, 2008; WEEK 4 - RETIRED

^^chances are in the white house, Biden is the smartest man in the building at any given day.

Slave posted:

I was thinking 'what? how can the man who did Religulous be this much of a whackjob?'. Then I realised which documentary was actually supposed to spring to mind when I see his name. What a terrible man.

Am I missing something or are you saying you were shocked that the man behind Religulous, aka "Darwin invented evolution, Hitler talked about cultural darwinsim, ergo evolution supporters are literal Nazis" the movie, is a wacko?

# ? May 16, 2011 21:47

Mr. Sunshine: May 15, 2008; This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt); Fun Shoe

shotgunbadger posted:

Am I missing something or are you saying you were shocked that the man behind Religulous, aka "Darwin invented evolution, Hitler talked about cultural darwinsim, ergo evolution supporters are literal Nazis" the movie, is a wacko?

What are you people talking about? Religulous was that mockumentary with Bill Maher. The :godwin:

"documentary" with Ben Stein was Expelled.

# ? May 16, 2011 22:20

Toast Museum: Dec 3, 2005; 30% Iron Chef

shotgunbadger posted:

Am I missing something or are you saying you were shocked that the man behind Religulous, aka "Darwin invented evolution, Hitler talked about cultural darwinsim, ergo evolution supporters are literal Nazis" the movie, is a wacko?

You're thinking of Expelled. Religulous was by Bill Maher, who is also a crank but for different reasons, like being anti-vaccine and rejecting the germ theory of disease.

# ? May 16, 2011 22:21

shotgunbadger: Nov 18, 2008; WEEK 4 - RETIRED

Mr. Sunshine posted:

What are you people talking about? Religulous was that mockumentary with Bill Maher. The "documentary" with Ben Stein was "Expelled".

Gah, yes it is, sorry I get them confused, both pretty well sucked but yea, two totally different flavors of crazy, sorry!

# ? May 16, 2011 22:22

Mad Doctor Cthulhu: Mar 3, 2008

I was going to ask how Bill Maher could be mistaken for Ben Stein, but then I realized they were on Comedy Central a lot during the '90s and they're both stark raving insane. So no worries. I don't think Maher wrote for Nixon, however.

No, wait, he banged Ann Coulter. So there's his connection to insanity.

# ? May 16, 2011 23:54

shotgunbadger: Nov 18, 2008; WEEK 4 - RETIRED

Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:

I was going to ask how Bill Maher could be mistaken for Ben Stein, but then I realized they were on Comedy Central a lot during the '90s and they're both stark raving insane. So no worries. I don't think Maher wrote for Nixon, however.

No, wait, he banged Ann Coulter. So there's his connection to insanity.

Nah didn't confuse the guys, just confused their movies, I forgot if it was the boring smug atheist movie or the boring smug theist movie.

# ? May 16, 2011 23:59

Lustful Man Hugs: Jul 18, 2010

Ballz posted:

Ben Stein

This is perhaps the dumbest thing I am going to hear all week. Have - in fact - any of the street movements in the Middle East whatsoever been linked to any amount of support for Iran?

# ? May 17, 2011 01:00

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

quote:

Two ships carrying 120 Iranian activists sailed for Bahrain on Monday in an act of solidarity with the island country's Shia majority population.

The Iranian government ordered the two boats to return, while activists threw into the water letters they were carrying as "moral support" to Bahraini Shia, a journalist for Iran's English-language Press TV reported live aboard the ships.

The ships turned back towards Iran at a half-way point after facing "the emergence of threats" from warships belonging to a coalition of Gulf states which aid Bahrain in its crackdown on anti-government demonstrators, the Washington Post reported, citing an announcement on the activists' website.

Iranian authorities did not try to stop the ships' trip, the website said, according to the Washington Post.

Mahdi Eghrarian, an organiser of the trip, told the semi-official Fars news agency that the ships embarked at the southwestern port of Dayyer.

A third of the activists were women, including ten children and no "armed personnel" are on board, Eghrarian said.

The group is carrying 5,000 letters which convey the Iranian people's "moral support", he said, for the Shia of Bahrain.

"We've started moving towards international waters. We will carry on sailing towards Bahrain's borders as far as possible in order to be able to hand over letters and messages of the Iranian nation to the Bahraini nation," Eghrarian said according to Fars.

Last month, Iranian authorities stopped two boats carrying Iranian students from leaving the southern port city of Bushehr for Bahrain - an attempt at a similar campaign.

Bahrain, a tiny island country in the Gulf, has a majority Shia population but is ruled by a Sunni king, who has cracked down on pro-democracy protests that broke out in February.

The Iranian regime 'supports' the revolution in Bahrain because there is a Shia majority that is being opressed, but in reality they are crushing any hints that revolution against an opressive regime is possible. They've been openly hypocritical since the start.

# ? May 17, 2011 01:28

mr. nobody: Sep 25, 2004; Net contents 12 fluid oz.

Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:

For the Gaddafis to really expect a truce to be taken seriously after all of this shows how loving out of touch they are. There are two choices they have: they can either beg openly for asylum and run like hell, or they can be executed. Given how far this has gone, I would not be surprised to see Twitpics of them in a bloody pile on fire.

Once an international arrest warrant is issued for gaddafi (assuming it happens), isn't asylum out of the question at that point? Libya (the gaddafi government) has claimed it will ignore it since they didn't sign the treaty/whatever that formed the International Criminal Court, but that would effectively freeze his traveling ability wouldn't it?

mr. nobody fucked around with this message at 01:54 on May 17, 2011

# ? May 17, 2011 01:51

A Winner is Jew: Feb 14, 2008; by exmarx

mr. nazi posted:

Once an international arrest warrant is issued for gaddafi (assuming it happens), isn't asylum out of the question at that point? Libya the government has claimed it will ignore it since they didn't sign the treaty/whatever that formed the International Criminal Court, but that would effectively freeze his traveling ability wouldn't it?

I think he could go to other nations that haven't signed the treaty for the ICC. :patriot:

# ? May 17, 2011 01:54

mr. nobody: Sep 25, 2004; Net contents 12 fluid oz.

Ok how about: what are the implications to Gaddafi, if/when an international arrest warrant is issued for his arrest on the charges against him?

# ? May 17, 2011 01:56

pylb: Sep 22, 2010; ^{"The superfluous, a very necessary thing"}

mr. nazi posted:

Ok how about : what are the implications to Gaddafi, if/when an international arrest warrant is issued for his arrest on the charges against him?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_al-Bashir.

# ? May 17, 2011 01:58

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

A Winner is Jew posted:

I think he could go to other nations that haven't signed the treaty for the ICC.

We signed it, we just haven't ratified it. Of course that puts us on par with countries like Sudan and Russia :barf:

# ? May 17, 2011 02:12

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Casimir Radon posted:

We signed it, we just haven't ratified it. Of course that puts us on par with countries like Sudan and Russia

Bush "unsigned" it and yes, that's a thing.

# ? May 17, 2011 03:27

Vacation Tenzin: Jan 23, 2005; I'M TOTALLY CALM AND RELAXED.

Anderson Cooper just showed a bunch of those syrian youtube videos of people being shot at in the streets trying to recover other peoples dead bodies and one of the mass grave they found in Daraa. This is just so depressing, I can't even imagine what it would be like to be Syrian.

# ? May 17, 2011 03:32

Cable Guy: Jul 18, 2005; I don't expect any trouble, but we'll be handing these out later...; Slippery Tilde

Xandu posted:

Bush "unsigned" it and yes, that's a thing.

You prompted me to look up some more info and it sparked a few more disturbing recollections. I know it's wiki but anyway...

quote:

The position of the Bush Administration during its first term in office was to unalterably oppose US ratification of the Rome Statute, believing Americans would be unfairly treated for political reasons.

quote:

The Bush administration's policies toward the ICC exceeded merely staying out of the Statute, and actively began seeking to guarantee that US citizens be immune to the Court and to thwart other states from acceding to the Stature without taking US concerns into account. The US vigorously pressed states to conclude agreements with the US that would guarantee its citizens immunity from the Court's jurisdiction, threatening to cut off aid to states that refused to agree.

The sheriff wears a black hat.

Also Xandu, where the hell did you get your avatar..? I swear I've seen that before.

Edit: I'm aware that US relations with the ICC softened even under Bush's second term (Darfur et al) but still.

Cable Guy fucked around with this message at 04:37 on May 17, 2011

# ? May 17, 2011 04:32

Homeroom Fingering: Apr 25, 2009; The secret history (((they))) don't want you to know

ChaosSamusX posted:

Have - in fact - any of the street movements in the Middle East whatsoever been linked to any amount of support for Iran?

When they first started Iran was vocally supportive of Yemen and Egypt overthrowing their Western backed dictators. Then when people started getting vocal in Iran, they brutally cracked down and shut their pie holes. They haven't said anything about what's happening to their friends in Syria, probably because they're preoccupied with their crippling Djinn problem.

# ? May 17, 2011 05:45

Chade Johnson: Oct 12, 2009; by Ozmaugh

tetsul posted:

When they first started Iran was vocally supportive of Yemen and Egypt overthrowing their Western backed dictators. Then when people started getting vocal in Iran, they brutally cracked down and shut their pie holes. They haven't said anything about what's happening to their friends in Syria, probably because they're preoccupied with their crippling Djinn problem.

Some people. The majority of Iranians still support the regime, it's exiles and bourgeoisie that were trying to cause trouble.

# ? May 17, 2011 06:12

A Winner is Jew: Feb 14, 2008; by exmarx

Chade Johnson posted:

Some people. The majority of Iranians still support the regime, it's exiles and bourgeoisie that were trying to cause trouble.

Clearly this is just a group of exiles and bourgeoisie.

# ? May 17, 2011 06:29

Cjones: Jul 4, 2008; Democracia Socrates, MD

People think it's the bougies who protest against totalitarian regimes?

...oh

# ? May 17, 2011 07:08

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

It's 3 months since the Libyan conflict started, and various people have promised something big for the 3 month anniversery, although various people have also know to talk bullshit.
Live Blogs May 17th
LibyaFeb17.com
AJE
Guardian
Feb17.info

quote:

Al Arabiya & Al Jazeera both report that Shokri Ghanem, chairman of Libya�s National Oil Company, has defected from Gaddafi�s regime and joined the opposition. Reuters says it was unable to verify this report and there have been earlier mistaken reports about his defection.

quote:

ICC to investigate institutionalized gang-rape of women in Libya
Security forces in Libya are allegedly using sexual enhancement drugs as a �machete� and gang-raping women they stop at checkpoints, the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has said.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo told CNN Monday that the court in The Hague will investigate allegations of institutionalized rape in the war-torn country.

�There are rapes. The issue is who organized them,� Luis Moreno-Ocampo told CNN�s Nic Robertson. �They were committed in some police barracks. Were the policemen prosecuted? What happened?� he asked.

Moreno-Ocampo said the criminal court has information about women who were stopped at checkpoints and, because they were carrying the flag of the rebels, were taken by police and gang raped.

He also said there were reports of the use of male sexual enhancement drugs, which he called a �tool of massive rape.�

�There�s some information with Viagra. So, it�s like a machete,� he said. �It�s new. Viagra is a tool of massive rape.

�So we are investigating. We are not ready to present the case yet, but I hope in the coming month, we�ll add charges or review the charges for rapes.�

In late April, various media organizations � including Foreign Policy magazine � reported that Susan Rice, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, told a closed-door U.N. Security Council hearing that Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi has been distributing Viagra pills to his troops �so they go out and rape.�

The magazine, which attributed the information to a U.N. diplomat in the room, said Rice did not offer any evidence to support her claim.

Pfizer, the maker of the drug, could not be reached early Tuesday morning for comment.

It was also not clear whether Moreno-Ocampo used the term �Viagra� as a catch-all for male sexual enhancement drugs in general.

Perhaps the best-known alleged rape case in Libya is that of Eman al-Obeidy.

Al-Obeidy received worldwide attention on March 26, when she burst into the Rixos Hotel in Tripoli while journalists staying there were having breakfast.

She told reporters she had been taken from a checkpoint east of Tripoli and held against her will for two days while beaten and raped by 15 men loyal to Gadhafi.

While notable for the international attention it received, al-Obeidy�s case may not be an exception.

Moreno-Ocampo did not say how many women might have been raped in Libya since the start of the civil war.

�The shooting is in the public space. The arresting people is so massive, so pervasive,� said Moreno-Ocampo. �(But) what happens inside the barracks with women is more difficult to know.�

Also Monday, the ICC sought the arrest of Gadhafi and two relatives, linking them to �widespread and systematic� attacks on civilians as they struggle to hold power in Libya.

quote:

Ministries ablaze after Tripoli strikes
A security services building and the headquarters of Libya's anti-corruption agency in Tripoli have been set ablaze after being hit by apparent NATO air strikes.

The two buildings on Al-Jumhuriya Avenue are close to the residence of leader Muammar Gaddafi, in an area where two explosions were heard at around 1.30am on Tuesday (1130 GMT).

By 3am firefighters were battling to control flames that were tearing through the two facing buildings, according to an AFP correspondent brought to the area by Libyan authorities.

The head of Libya's Ministry for Inspection and Popular Control, the anti-corruption agency, was at the scene and said that some ministry employees had been injured, but provided no further details.

Government spokesman Mussa Ibrahim later said that the rebel National Transitional Council (NTC), based in eastern city of Benghazi, had directed NATO to attack the agency in a bid to destroy files related to former regime officials who have joined the rebellion.

"We believe that NATO has been misled to destroy files on their corruption cases," he told reporters.

Three explosions had also been heard earlier in the same area.

Parts of Tripoli have been targeted almost daily by NATO-led strikes carried out since a March 19 UN resolution called for the protection of civilians from Gaddafi's regime.

Based off reports I've read from Tripoli I get the feeling those buildings were targeted to weaken the security forces in Tripoli, and help the rebels in Tripoli fight against Gaddafi's security forces.

From the sounds of things the rebels are just outside Zliten, currently checking the areas they've captured for any Gaddafi troops, fortifying their positions and moving heavy equipment into place. At the same time they are focusing on the south, with most of the fighting around Tawarga. It makes me wonder if their plan is to fight toward Sirte, cut of Gaddafi's troops in Brega, and allow the rebels waiting in the East to steam roll over them all the way to Sirte, linking up with Misrata. If that happened Gaddafi would be doomed.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 10:18 on May 17, 2011

# ? May 17, 2011 08:28

Mr. Sunshine: May 15, 2008; This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt); Fun Shoe

Chade Johnson posted:

Some people. The majority of Iranians still support the regime, it's exiles and bourgeoisie that were trying to cause trouble.

With the risk of starting a massive derail:
Given the lack of free elections, and the well-known oppressive nature of the regime - on what do you base that claim? Have there been any reliable polls on the Iranian people's attitude towards their rulers? What we do know is that the regime has very little patience with political dissent, and that it tends to crack down violently on demonstrators. If the population is forbidden, under the threat of violence, from expressing anything but support for the regime, any claim that the regime enjoys popular support is simply absurd.

On a semi-related note: I understand taking an anti-american stance, I really do. I even sympathize with it. But it seems to me that some people take it as the sole defining trait of a regime - you're either for or against america, and if a regime is anti-american then its opponents must by definition be pro-american imperialists. Why is that?

# ? May 17, 2011 08:34

shotgunbadger: Nov 18, 2008; WEEK 4 - RETIRED

Mr. Sunshine posted:

On a semi-related note: I understand taking an anti-american stance, I really do. I even sympathize with it. But it seems to me that some people take it as the sole defining trait of a regime - you're either for or against america, and if a regime is anti-american then its opponents must by definition be pro-american imperialists. Why is that?

Because modern history has shown it's not the craziest option?

# ? May 17, 2011 08:53

Mr. Sunshine: May 15, 2008; This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt); Fun Shoe

shotgunbadger posted:

Because modern history has shown it's not the craziest option?

But by that reasoning people fighting for human rights in Belarus, Iran, North Korea, China etc etc are pro-american imperialists. That's the problem - if the only defining property of a state is its attitude to America, then the crimes of that state are irrelevant and anyone pointing out those crimes is simply a shill for the opposing side. Such a worldview means that it's allright for a state to opress the poo poo out of its population as long as the state itself opposes the western imperialists.

# ? May 17, 2011 09:27

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Good article from the BBC about Misrata

quote:

Misrata breathes as Gaddafi siege lifted
A home-made armoured car, with a heavy machine-gun welded to the back, screeches past us on the battle-ravaged streets of Misrata - a brand new "victory" rap anthem blaring from inside and four grinning faces peering out.

"Our revolutionary fighters - we pamper them now," says our local translator Abdullah Ali, with a mixture of pride and indulgent disapproval.

We've just enjoyed a helping of barbecued camel liver, served in the rubble of a bright yellow villa close to the wider devastation of Tripoli Street, where a group of local fighters have set up camp.

"The people bring them food every day," says Mr Ali. "We know we owe them so much."

It has taken us 34 hours to reach the besieged port of Misrata by sea, from the eastern city of Benghazi. We hitched a ride on a small, rusting fishing boat - packed with supplies and rebel fighters - which wallowed extravagantly in a gentle Mediterranean swell.

Misrata's large, commercial harbour has been mined and shelled by Col Gaddafi's forces in recent weeks, but our arrival, monitored by three Nato warships off the coast, went smoothly.

The captain, who had learnt his trade at a naval academy in Soviet Azerbaijan, led a big onboard cheer of relief.

It is three days now since the last bombardments struck the city. People here are enjoying their first nights of uninterrupted sleep in many weeks.

The city's rag-tag defenders, helped decisively by Nato airstrikes, have pushed Col Gaddafi's forces back out of rocket and artillery range on at least three fronts.

As we drive through the city - a complicated task given the maze of roadblocks and barriers - we can see dozens of queues forming, some outside bread shops, others by the side of the road, where lorries have brought eggs in from farms in newly seized territory to the west.

The siege of the city may have been lifted, but most supplies can only reach here by sea, and stocks of most goods remain worryingly low.

The local mobile phone system is down too. For many people that is just a minor additional inconvenience, but for the rebels - still dysfunctional at the best of times - it is clearly a big headache as they struggle to co-ordinate their disparate forces on multiple fronts.

With so many civilians crowding into the city from neighbouring towns, accommodation is scarce.

We spend our first night in the slightly surreal surroundings of a private clinic-cum-spa, a few doors down from one of the main hospitals. I get some sleep on a doctor's examination bed between rooms marked "bridal salon" and "tight chests."

The next morning I meet a five-year old girl, who appears to be one of the last victims of Col Gaddafi's long and furious bombardment of Misrata - an offensive that may well feature in any future attempt to prosecute him for alleged war crimes.

Malak is five years old, and lost her right leg on Friday afternoon, when a Grad missile smashed through the wall of her home in a residential neighbourhood.

Later her father, Mustapha Ashami, shows me the children's bedroom. Although Malak survived the explosion, her one-year old sister, Rudeyna, was killed on the spot, as was her three-year-old brother, Mohammed.

"I want to see Gaddafi killed - wiped off the face of the earth," he says.

But then he changes his mind. "He must be brought to justice and pay the penalty for his crimes."

On Tripoli Street - where the scars of war are at their most livid - residents have assembled a collection of munitions, some intact, others in pieces, and arranged them outside a bullet-riddled shop front into a makeshift display.

It is part memorial, part museum, part souvenir stall. Crowds gather each day to take photos and to wipe their feet on a large doormat bearing Col Gaddafi's image.

Nearby, Farouk Ben Attmeade swaggers past the crowds with a bandolier of bullets wrapped snugly round his chest. Like a surprising number of people here, he spent many years in Britain.

Two friends accompany him - one is a 19-year-old English student who took food to the frontlines during the heaviest fighting. The other is a 37-year-old postman-turned-sniper.

"We have defeated Gaddafi - his forces are scared of us now. There are none left. We are just waiting for orders from our government in Benghazi and we can advance," says Mr Attmeade.

But he acknowledges that will be hard without Nato's help, and refers obliquely to the tribal divisions that make it "complicated" to start moving onto other cities without "proper instructions."

From Misrata, rebel forces are pushing slowly towards the west and the south-east.

But for now it remains unclear whether they are simply strengthening their grip on areas around their home city, or laying the foundations for a bigger and more decisive offensive into the heart of western Libya.

# ? May 17, 2011 09:49

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

Mr. Sunshine posted:

But by that reasoning people fighting for human rights in Belarus, Iran, North Korea, China etc etc are pro-american imperialists. That's the problem - if the only defining property of a state is its attitude to America, then the crimes of that state are irrelevant and anyone pointing out those crimes is simply a shill for the opposing side. Such a worldview means that it's allright for a state to opress the poo poo out of its population as long as the state itself opposes the western imperialists.

It's a problem of black and white thinking. The opposition in Iran don't exactly love America, and the older among them can still remember the Shah. They're just a lot more worried about the current regime which is actively repressing them, then the external boogyman that we are to them (and them to us). They're not on "our" side, so much as they're on their own, and the ruling party paints as shilling out to us.

# ? May 17, 2011 09:57

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# ? May 23, 2024 10:12

El Anansi: Jan 27, 2008

Norman Finkelstein gave a lecture at my school yesterday--his first ever in Egypt, I guess--in which he laid out a lot of observations w/r/t how the Arab Spring generally and the Egyptian revolt specifically are going to alter the political landscape of I/P from here on out. Here is an interview he did with the Egyptian daily Al Masry Al Youm which covers some of the same stuff.

# ? May 17, 2011 10:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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