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Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com BB ($27.09) UTG ($19.43) MP ($25) CO ($8.75) Button ($88.11) Hero (SB) ($29.93) Preflop: Hero is SB with Q  , A1 fold, MP bets $0.75, 1 fold, Button calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.65, 1 fold Flop: ($2.50) 10 , J , 4 (3 players)Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, 1 fold Turn: ($5.50) 2 (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $3, Hero calls $3 River: ($11.50) J  (2 players)Hero bets $7, Button calls $7 Total pot: $25.50 | Rake: $1.27 So, what about this hand. Button is a Finnsis guy who is about 33/24 over ~40 hands, recently won a 3 way pf all-in pot where his pocket 9's made a set on the river vs AA and KK. Preflop I just call, there's $1.85 in the pot and it's only $.65 to call. I flop a flush draw and a gutshot straight and just check-call. Turn completes my nut flush, so i c/c again. I thought about a c/r here but what is he going to call me with there? River is another J, and I decide to bet out, because I want some value. Not sure if villain will bet again, so I think betting here is better than a c/r. Only hands that has me beat here are TJ or flopped sets that rivered a full house. Woudl you play this differently?
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May 7, 2011 13:31
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Bear with me, I'm doing this by hand for the first time and my terminology may be completely off. Carbon, NL $0.02/$0.04, Full Ring w/two sitting out SB ($1.17) BB ($7.95) UTG ($5.73) Hero - MP1 ($4.87) MP2 ($5.44) CO ($2.70) Button ($1.17) Preflop Hero in MP1 with 9 9 1 fold, Hero bets $0.20, MP2 calls $0.20, 4 fold Flop T 5 3Pot is $0.40 Hero bets $0.30, MP2 calls $0.30 Turn 2 Hero bets $0.25, MP2 raises to $1.13, Hero folds Yeah. So my initial question was about the turn, but I'm pretty sure there was no part of this hand I played particularly well. Maybe the flop, that's about it. Anyway, MP2 is a solid enough player; knows what to do with a big hand, knows how to fold trash, and has folded in the face of big raises on occasion. C-bet after the flop since it's heads up with second pair, get called. At this point, I'm thinking he has a T or better, so I lead out the turn with a probe bet to see where I'm at. I'm thinking this was a waste of money. I need to either come in full bore for 1/2 pot to try to take it down or check-fold, and since I'm thinking I'm beat, I need to go with the latter. The $0.25 does make him hesitate for a second since it's out of character for what I've shown up until now, but he eventually makes the right move. I'm also thinking I pushed the 9s way too hard out of position since I had to lead out. Critiques are appreciated. Please be kind, I'm just starting out getting serious about my game 
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May 7, 2011 15:44
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HKS posted:This thought process is very flawed and rangeskates a huge amount. Thanks for the criticism. One of the reasons I post is to learn as well! I guess I just assigned a very wide range to the two villains because of the min betting. My big problem obviously is that the conclusion I came up with (bet bigger on the turn to "protect" against draws) actually goes against the analysis (it's time to value bet and squeeze money out of second best hands).
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May 7, 2011 15:49
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beedeebee posted:hand Chokes McGee posted:hand
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May 7, 2011 19:08
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beedeebee posted:Turn completes my nut flush, so i c/c again. I thought about a c/r here but what is he going to call me with there? River is another J, and I decide to bet out, because I want some value. Not sure if villain will bet again, so I think betting here is better than a c/r. Only hands that has me beat here are TJ or flopped sets that rivered a full house. Woudl you play this differently? So when you have the nuts you aren't willing to check raise, but on the river when your hand is now potentially beaten you bet out? You have an awesome flop draw and then fail to get money in the pot when the button has bet twice already. If you don't think he will call on the turn, why not just put in a check raise on the flop if you suspect a bluff? It would even be for value! Furthemore, if he doesn't have anything worthwhile on the turn, why do you think he'll put money in on the river? On the turn he could at least be drawing with the Kd and call a bet.
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May 7, 2011 19:50
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On the bdb aq hand, we have several factors to consider before settling on a line. We should consider villains raising range, cbet range/frequency, then finally compartamentalize villains cards and what our best line here is. If villain bets a large range we should ch/r for value or as a semibluff. If villain is weak tight check/call or check decide depending on bet size. If villain cbets a small% we can consider leading for value or semibluff. It is a decision tree you should familiarize with so you can deal with future situations. With villain info as played I would c/r the flop given villains range is wide enough to include a ton of worse draws and pair+weak draw hands that were way ahead of in equity that is perfect to semibluff vs. It is also our best pathway to value. On the chokes hand try and figure out villains calling range, and I doubt its tens only. Most solid players would call once with tx, 5x, pps up to 99, sometimes 3x, definitely all fds, sometimes overs with Ah, sometimes pure overs, a2, A4 And probably some moree poo poo. On a turn that hits only a small small part of his range im not folding. Its up to you to use your reads to either bet again for value if villain is a station or will chec back for a free card. If villain is aggro and would bet his whiffs we can check/call and face a river game time decision its hard but we shouldn't avoid tough spots on purpose. Yes somtimes we get called by tx twice and feel dumb but considering ranges and making fearless but informed plays is what separates us from the top regs. IsotopeOrange posted:Thanks for the criticism. One of the reasons I post is to learn as well! I guess I just assigned a very wide range to the two villains because of the min betting. My big problem obviously is that the conclusion I came up with (bet bigger on the turn to "protect" against draws) actually goes against the analysis (it's time to value bet and squeeze money out of second best hands). I like ur attitude. Its a common problem amongst even decent winners that we all sometimes arrive at the correct play but with bad analysis or through autopiloting. We have to ditch this completely to be able to squeeze everything out of every decision.
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May 7, 2011 21:12
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HKS posted:On the chokes hand try and figure out villains calling range, and I doubt its tens only. Most solid players would call once with tx, 5x, pps up to 99, sometimes 3x, definitely all fds, sometimes overs with Ah, sometimes pure overs, a2, A4 And probably some moree poo poo. On a turn that hits only a small small part of his range im not folding. Its up to you to use your reads to either bet again for value if villain is a station or will chec back for a free card. If villain is aggro and would bet his whiffs we can check/call and face a river game time decision its hard but we shouldn't avoid tough spots on purpose. Yes somtimes we get called by tx twice and feel dumb but considering ranges and making fearless but informed plays is what separates us from the top regs. If there's one thing I've learned from these comments, it's that I should've come correct on the turn instead of probing. Also I have a real problem with putting people on *a* hand instead of a *range* of hands, it's something I'm trying to work on. 
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May 8, 2011 00:21
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Chokes McGee posted:Bear with me, I'm doing this by hand for the first time and my terminology may be completely off. I'll preface this by saying I'm not a great player, but maybe I'm not crazy. 99 at UTG+1 seems almost like you should fold pre-flop, because the only thing you're doing by throwing that kind of money in pre-flop is making sure better hands call you. You didn't hit the flop, but bet anyway. I would have trusted the call there, checked the turn, and folded to almost any bet. Sure nobody is really going to put you on 99, but at the same time you essentially have middle pair. I'm sure you can win with it some percentage of the time, but I'm not sure your or my hand reading skills are accurate enough to make a bet or call here profitable.
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May 8, 2011 00:33
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ErIog posted:I'll preface this by saying I'm not a great player, but maybe I'm not crazy. 99 at UTG+1 seems almost like you should fold pre-flop, because the only thing you're doing by throwing that kind of money in pre-flop is making sure better hands call you. You didn't hit the flop, but bet anyway. I would have trusted the call there, checked the turn, and folded to almost any bet. Sure nobody is really going to put you on 99, but at the same time you essentially have middle pair. I'm sure you can win with it some percentage of the time, but I'm not sure your or my hand reading skills are accurate enough to make a bet or call here profitable. 99 is playable in any position 7-handed, and probably even in early positions on a full table, but I don't play full ring. hks covered the rest of the hand
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May 8, 2011 01:45
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mindtwist posted:99 is playable in any position 7-handed, and probably even in early positions on a full table, but I don't play full ring. hks covered the rest of the hand See, it turned out I was crazy.
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May 8, 2011 02:48
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Strong Sauce posted:On this flop with this hand it's usually a hand I'm going to be putting in a lot of money. Not only do you have the nut flush and gutshot, you also have 2 overcards to the board. Even if he has a flopped set here you still have pretty good equity. And what do we do when he calls our c/r and the turn misses us completely? I'd guess bet again? MassRayPer posted:So when you have the nuts you aren't willing to check raise, but on the river when your hand is now potentially beaten you bet out? You have an awesome flop draw and then fail to get money in the pot when the button has bet twice already. If you don't think he will call on the turn, why not just put in a check raise on the flop if you suspect a bluff? It would even be for value! Furthemore, if he doesn't have anything worthwhile on the turn, why do you think he'll put money in on the river? On the turn he could at least be drawing with the Kd and call a bet. See, that's why I should post more HHs, when you put it this way I'm thinking: what the hell was I doing. The moment I played the hand, it seemed like the right thing to do. But you are right, I should have put more money in the pot.
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May 8, 2011 12:46
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Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 7 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 3 Hero (UTG+1): $4.17 MP: $4.10 CO: $1.64 BTN: $1.78 SB: $2.77 BB: $1.20 UTG: $6.69 SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04 Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has A Q fold, Hero raises to $0.10, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.08, BB calls $0.06 Flop: ($0.30, 3 players) 3 8 5 SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.20, SB calls $0.20, BB calls $0.20 Turn: ($0.90, 3 players) K SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks River: ($0.90, 3 players) 9 SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.90... No great read on SB, BB is tight and extremely passive preflop, but not really enough hands for a good post flop read (especially since he plays so few). My thoughts street by street. Flop - standard cbet. Turn - The fact that they both called the flop surprised me, and makes me think there is probably at least a pair out there, especially against the blinds. I decide to check behind and fold to a River bet, but bet if the River is checked to me. River - If one of them likes his hand I can see checking the Turn looking for action, but when they didn't get any, I don't see checking the river as well. The show of weakness was enough that I decided to try to take it down with a bet. Biggest danger is that one of them has a crap pair and likes it just enough to see if it wins. Not My Leg fucked around with this message at 02:42 on May 9, 2011 |
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May 9, 2011 02:39
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Even with two people in the hand still, I would just 3 barrel this board on most rivers. The line you took is pretty likely to get looked up by a random pair from the flop, your line just doesn't look strong to a microstakes player. Once someone c/c's this flop and the turn is a K, almost 100% of their range has an absolute hand strength of <TP. This means that it is going to be a good situation to 3 barrel bluff on a lot of rivers (not all).
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May 9, 2011 03:17
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You've got to bet that turn. A non-draw-completing high card is basically exactly what you want to land when you're representing hand strength against people who are passive but staying in. Sometimes they had Kx and now they're not folding but it doesn't happen all that often. When you bet out again, draws don't get a free card and middling pairs like 44 or 5x/8x will often lay it down to a 2nd barrel (even in microstakes) with a king now out and you still representing strength. Basically most of any hands that check/calls on the flop will feel weaker on that turn card against a preflop aggressor still firing out, so you need to bet it. Of course, if you've observed either SB or BB call down with a weak pair then you might have to adjust, but with SB as an unknown and BB being tight you need to fire out the turn, maybe around .60-.80 but I tend to overbet so you can probably get away with lower. Bhaal fucked around with this message at 20:14 on May 9, 2011 |
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May 9, 2011 20:11
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Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Poker Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com CO ($31.49) Button ($39.30) SB ($17.13) BB ($70.07) UTG ($17.87) Hero (MP) ($54.79) Preflop: Hero is MP with A , A1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, Button calls $0.75, SB calls $0.65, 1 fold Flop: ($2.50) 10 , 5, J (3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, Button calls $1.75, 1 fold Turn: ($6) A (2 players)Hero ??? So, what do we do on the turn? We turn top set, but there is now the possibility that villain has a flush or a straight. All I know about him is that he was 28/20 over 30 hands. I can see him calling my raise with KQ. A flush seems less likeley to me, since he'd have to call with 8 9 or KT and stuff like that. And 89 would probably have raise my flop bet, right? But he could still have the flush. On the other hand, he could also have lower sets, or maybe flopped 2 pair. So, does leading the turn here and folding to a raise seem like the right plan here?
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May 11, 2011 16:30
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I don't like bet/folding here at all. The villain might perceive A as a bad turn card for your range because it is an ace and because it completes a flush and a straight draw, so I think he may bluff you a lot and raise your turn bet. I think against competent villains you can check/raise very often with success, because as mentioned the A is a perfect card for him to try to steal the pot. Against looser opponents I think a bet/call and reevaluate the river is probably best because they could still call you with random two-pairs, pairs + FD, pairs + SD, etc. Remember you have a non-trivial chance of filling up on the river, so I can't dump this hand quite yet.
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May 11, 2011 17:01
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Mind_Taker posted:I don't like bet/folding here at all. The villain might perceive A lol "random villain is going to interpret your 2barrel on a super wet board as weak and bluff raise you!!!" this is totally wrong also we have top set. while this might be a good spot to raise it's not a great turn card for all of his range and what's he going to bluff you with, a complete air?? 89o??? nothing needs to bluff. you need to just bet/call turn. he can have stuff like QJ with the Qd that just presses raise on turn because derp derp my equities. ch/r is a huge mistake and is going to enable him to completely control the hand when he chs back literally every worse hand. there's no hand for him to "take a stab" with. bet/fold is a giant mistake because we have somewhere around 9 outs to a boat and we're going to be getting about 3 to 1 when he raises. The pot odds aren't right but when we do boat up we're going to get paid off and depending on how he plays river and the card that comes we can fold sometimes.
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May 11, 2011 18:43
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Keep betting and never fold. Also bet closer to the pot on the flop. I don't really like a check-raise here since it just lets him play correctly against you.
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May 11, 2011 18:47
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Folded a difficult one there. 3 maniacs at my table. I felted one and this other guy has 54/29 in 24 hands. He just raised hard 3-4 of the last 5 hands and I get this hand http://www.pokerhand.org/?6109130 He had been cbetting superhard and being aggressive. Not so much aggression but huget bets like the hand posted and cbetting 5$ in a .90$ pot. So I got scared! Should of shoved or set mine here? TT must be the nuts against this guy. Also figured if I just call and dont hit I am out of position against a very aggro guy.
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May 13, 2011 02:41
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Villain raise a large range Villain cbets $5 in a $.90 pot. (no doubt with his large range, also extrapolate his looseness to cbetting looseness especially at this size which is a size that doesn't want to get called) Solution: call pre. call any flop any bet size, check and call any turn card any bet size, option to CRAI depending on stacks. Thats the mindset you should have leading into this hand. Obviously once the flop cards come out we have more things to consider but since you didn't we cannot. This hand is also profitable to 3bet vs villain's range. If you had reads of how villain reacts to 3bets, or how he plays 3bet pots this hand can easily swing towards a 3bet pre. With the info you've provided though especially the huge spastic cbet size calling here is more +EV. HKS fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 03:02
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HKS posted:Villain raise a large range Yeah pretty much figure I played it scared.  Funny thing is I would of played that way with JJ+ any time. Live and learn! Thanks!
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May 13, 2011 03:14
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Not a question about a specific hand, but more about a situation I ran into a few times and have been questioning what the correct play is. Cash game, 100BB deep. Assume that the only read on villain is that his starting hand range is fairly standard, he may be somewhat loose or somewhat tight, but assume he isn't calling a preflop raise with 83o. I open raise 3x from MP with 78s (or something similar, can be 88, doesn't really matter). Villain calls (not from the blinds, so he has position), both blinds fold. Flop comes 47Kr. I think it's completely standard to cbet this flop against 1 player no matter what I'm holding, so I cbet 1/2-2/3 pot and villain calls. Turn comes 2 (no flush draw) a complete blank. What do I do? Option 1 - Check. This strikes me as an incredibly weak line. Preflop raise, cbet, check looks exactly like the flop missed me and I expect him to play back at me with essentially anything, including air. If he does play back though, I think I probably have to just surrender the hand; the K hits his range to call a preflop raise, and I'm a huge dog to Kx (or more realistically, let's say K9+) here. Option 2 - Bet. This just seems really spewy to me. Yes, maybe he was floating the flop to take it down on the turn, but isn't it more likely that he just liked the flop enough to call. The turn didn't change anything, and I'm assuming he can see that, so 2 barreling this isn't going to make him go away. This seems like a situation in which there is no good option (okay, there's the "tighten up your range from MP," but if that's the answer then put me in the CO and him on the button or pretend I have pocket 8s). Cbetting the flop is completely standard, but once I do that and he calls, it seems like I am in a no win situation on the turn. If I check, he will take it down with anything, and if I bet, there is a good chance I am just spewing money to a guy who has me crushed. I could check the flop, but that just seems weird to me and I'm not sure what my line would be then. I suppose float the flop and then bluff the turn? (Sorry if that rambled a little, I'm still thinking the situation through.) EDIT - To clarify (thanks etcetera08) I am specifically wondering how to handle getting called by an unknown after cbetting a dry board that missed you. Also, since it is an unknown, my suggestion of float the flop out of position is probably a really bad idea now that I think about it. Not My Leg fucked around with this message at 05:03 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 03:28
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Not My Leg posted:Not a question about a specific hand, but more about a situation I ran into a few times and have been questioning what the correct play is. A huge chunk of your read is missing which effects your line. That is, what is his reaction to cbets. Also your preflop "read" supplied is completely worthless and doesn't help form a range at all. Do you basically just want advice about treating an unknown if you cbet a dry board and get called and turn doesn't change things?
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May 13, 2011 04:12
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etcetera08 posted:A huge chunk of your read is missing which effects your line. That is, what is his reaction to cbets. Yeah, sorry. I know that this play is hugely dependent on reads and I am wondering how to handle it against an unknown. And yes, that is exactly the situation, cbet a dry board that missed you, get called by unknown, turn doesn't change anything. I only added in a preflop read to rule out the idea that the guy hit a stupid 2 pair or something. Edit - Okay, I just did a review of all my recent sessions and I am spewing off a ton of money 2 barreling after I miss the flop. I'm just going to cut it out for now. I can work on using it when it makes sense later, but right now it is just a huge leak in my game. Not My Leg fucked around with this message at 09:14 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 04:53
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wrong thread!
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May 13, 2011 10:06
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Not My Leg posted:Middle pair OOP cbet Caveat - I'm pretty new so take with a pinch of salt. But from my point of view, surely this is exactly why when you have unknowns behind you, you need to keep a tight range, especially when you might be playing out of position until you know how they play? Theres a good chance that flop missed him, or even he has Axs and 2nd or 3rd pair, AJ, AQ, AT. But then again, as you pointed out he could also have AK, or Kx. You don't know what hes likely to call your raise with or how he reacts to Cbets, does he call them all? Does he fold when he misses? Is he a bit more tricky? This is exactly why position is so important, it helps cut down on those "ugh what do I do now" situations. I'd be leaving my 7/8 till I knew the table a bit better and playing my 8's to hit a set or get out, maybe throw a bluff if the situation fits. Potentially dodgy advice here but if I wanted to make a move at that pot I'd look to check it back and call if he bets 1/2-1/3 the pot at me then bet on the turn. But without knowing anything about your opponent other than "hes not insane" surely you play it safe and wait for a better spot?
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May 13, 2011 10:51
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Way more often than not you should have reads in this spot. Trying to solve hands in a vacuum is not that helpful to your overall game. Any read can change what you do on the turn with either 78 or 88, if not from the flop. I understand some players seek a "baseline" strategy for spots, because from there they then can deviate one way or another depending on the situation, except you shouldn't have a baseline strategy for any post-flop spot. In any case, you should have something about villain, unless the "few times" this happened it was literally your first orbit. Something as simple as how many hands villain played since you sat down? what country is he from, is he a reg? how many tables is he playing currently? it would all be helpful here. like what etc08 said, your read was basically he can be super loose OR super tight, with that read it isn't a surprise that there is no right answer. If we bet turn we get called by better if we check we get bet off by overcards or 56s right?
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May 13, 2011 15:10
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HKS posted:Way more often than not you should have reads in this spot. Trying to solve hands in a vacuum is not that helpful to your overall game. Any read can change what you do on the turn with either 78 or 88, if not from the flop. I understand some players seek a "baseline" strategy for spots, because from there they then can deviate one way or another depending on the situation, except you shouldn't have a baseline strategy for any post-flop spot. The point about there not being a baseline strategy postflop is well taken; it's actually something I know and yet still get stuck thinking about. In any case, this caused me to find a huge leak in my game, so time well spent. I think that in this situation I am just trying to win pots rather than actually make the most +EV (or in this case perhaps least -EV) decision.
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May 13, 2011 18:20
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Very deep live 1/2 game with big draw: I played this turn horribly...really feel like I did not get nearly as much value as I could have in this spot and played a bit scared: I have about 250bb in HJ, villain in CO is a very deepstacked reg with like 450-500bb...my image is very very tight TAG player. Villain is generally fairly passive vs. aggression but does take advantage of weakness. Plays kinda straightforwardly. He was playing about 35% of hands. He really hates wet boards. I have Th9h...raise to 10...villain flats 2 players flat. Pot is ~45. Flop: 9c8h4c...checked to me I bet 30 villain flats two players fold. 105$ pot Turn: 7h...I check...villain bets pot. Wasn't happy but I had massive implied odds and just called. I think he's extremely rarely bluffing here and his range is just TT-JJ/2pair/set. On the turn this is just a super standard checkraise/CRAI right? I think it's pretty hard to lead out that turn cause I'm not happy if I get raised but my cards are somewhat face-up after my check-call...I called with the plan to bet like 1/3rd pot if either flush hit on the river. edit: I'm not entirely sure if the 3rd card on the flop was the 4c but it was a low club. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 10:35 on May 15, 2011 |
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May 14, 2011 21:46
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Villain is tight passive preflop (11/1), but tends to complete more from the small blind (30). I haven't seen a lot from him on the flop, but he is more aggressive post flop than pre. This is microstakes. Merge No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Merge Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com MP ($4.68) CO ($5.54) Button ($4) SB ($4.21) Hero (BB) ($4.22) UTG ($5.13) Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 , 44 folds, SB calls $0.02, Hero checks Flop: ($0.08) 7 , 4, 8 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.05, SB raises to $0.10, Hero raises to $0.31, SB raises to $1.15, Hero? I feel like this guy, with these stats, is just set mining, and feel like I'm going to run into a set every time. On the other hand, against a regular microstakes player I would expect that line from 44,77+,78, and maybe A8, and I'm 60/40 against that range (even limiting it to just pocket pairs and 78 I'm 57/43). I would also expect a regular microstakes player to call a shove with plenty of hands I beat (overpairs, maybe TPTK). But if his range is really only 44,77,88 I'm pretty screwed. So, shove or fold (call seems terrible). EDIT - When I say villain is "more aggressive" on the flop I mean that I have seen him limp, and then lead at the flop and take it down. I haven't seen him go to war like this before, and I don't remember a C/R from him before. Also, only seen a handful of flops he was involved in. VV Yeah, obviously should have included 56 in his range as well, which makes this a very questionable (or outright terrible) shove. It's basically a coinflip against a random microstakes player, and since I would heavily discount this villain playing with anything less than a set (or maybe top 2), I'm probably way behind with zero fold equity. VV Not My Leg fucked around with this message at 19:42 on May 26, 2011 |
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May 26, 2011 10:05
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I fold there every time against this villain. 56 and 78 seem like his most likely holdings, but sets are certainly also in his range. I just don't see a hand you beat there after he check-raises, then raises your 3-bet on the flop. A tight-passive villain doesn't do that with TPTK, and while 99-TT might be in his limping range I don't see him 4-betting with it on the flop either. You're not heavily invested in the pot so find another spot.
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May 26, 2011 14:45
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1-3 live game. I just sat down so I don't have reads on anyone. I have A J UTG+2Villain is UTG+1 and makes it 12. I call as does MP and Button. Flop: J 410Villain bets 15, I call, MP calls, button folds. Turn: 5 Villain checks, I bet 30, MP folds, villain raises to 100, with about 150 left, and I have about 300 left. I....?
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May 28, 2011 10:57
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discstickers posted:1-3 live game. I just sat down so I don't have reads on anyone. (Caveat - I'm not a good player) Well without reads your in a really lovely spot, this is live so most people are a bit looser than online, a good tight player here can easily have TT or JJ for a set, and just as easily QQ, KK, AA. If he's a bit looser you can see JT in there, as well as KJ\KQ if he over values paint. I mean with TPTK, what hands can you beat that would bet like this, KJ or QJ maybe? AJ for a chop? KQ ? He's c-bet the flop for half pot, turn helps no body, you bet 30 into 75? Maybe he thinks your betting weak, but into two players who have both called earlier aggression, he then reraises you the pot? From my point of view you're probably beat by anyone who knows what they are doing, again, I'm not good though so take it with a pinch of salt.
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May 28, 2011 14:11
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Stacks?
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May 28, 2011 18:01
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Strong Sauce posted:Stacks? discstickers posted:Villain ... with about 150 left, and I have about 300 left.
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May 29, 2011 01:03
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It's a fold against a competent player though I don't see a good player taking that line ever with an overpair. He has a ton of sets/2pairs in his range. Villian is shoving a lot of blank rivers and it's hard for you to call there unimproved. Unless he put you on a float/QK/98 on the flop you're not in good shape in this dry a board and your line doesn't look like a draw. I don't understand why he'd go for the CR rather than check-calling with hands that you beat like KJ/QJ/AT. Also probably should've bet more on turn for value. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 20:53 on May 29, 2011 |
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May 29, 2011 20:21
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Just started playing 0.02/0.04 NL on Merge about 500 hands ago. I played around 10k hands of limit a few years back, but haven't really started playing and studying NL seriously until somewhat recently. Some tips on where I went wrong with this hand would be really helpful. UTG+1 and CO had both sat at the table recently, so no reads there. MP3 had played extremely tight so far. I think I should have paid more attention to that in my decision making process, specifically when I failed to fold on the flop. Merge No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (9 handed) - Merge Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com saw flop | saw showdown UTG+1 ($4.48) MP1 ($5.04) Hero (MP2) ($7.06) MP3 ($3.45) CO ($4.30) Button ($4.04) SB ($6.60) BB ($3.80) UTG ($1.56) Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q , Q1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.04, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.12, MP3 calls $0.12, CO calls $0.12, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.08 Flop: ($0.54) 8 , 4, 2 (4 players)UTG+1 bets $0.40, Hero raises to $0.80, MP3 raises to $3.33 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $2.53 Turn: ($7.60) J (3 players, 1 all-in)River: ($7.60) 7 (3 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: $7.60 | Rake: $0.38 Results below: Hero had Q , Q (one pair, Queens).MP3 had A , K (flush, Ace high).CO didn't show Outcome: MP3 won $7.22 Looking at it now, I'm thinking that I should have probably just called on the flop, and then folded to the all-in. My thinking was that I should be accomplishing 3 things by raising there: 1) getting my money in with an overpair when I am presumably ahead (however, with the 2 cold callers with position on me, this might have been a poor decision due to risk of AA/KK?) 2) giving prohibitively poor pot odds to anyone drawing for a flush who had not yet acted. With that as my goal, should I have raised even more? With a hand like this, I thought it would be unlikely to improve (backdoor flush draw where I risk being dominated, or getting trip/quad queens), while any single spade or any aces or kings would be somewhat scary. That's 16 cards that could hit and be significantly worse for me vs ~3-4 outs that improve the hand. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
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Jun 1, 2011 06:10
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Don't be results-oriented. You have an overpair. When you say tight, was MP3 playing like 6/0? Do you really think villians are just flatting there preflop with AA/KK? OTF you need to be wayyyyyyyyy more worried about like, set of 8s, set of 4s as higher PPs will be 3 betting pre. When you minraised utg's donkbet, what did you think he had? I think that looks really weak/just a bet to protect your hand (btw you need to raise more than cause flushdraws can flat you there and be getting slightly better than 2:1). You need to make around a pot-sized raise to get value from TT-JJ and flush draws. When you minraise I think a lot of draws (even gutshots with flushdraws like A5s/A3s) can just shove over you and get folds since your hand basically just looks like 99+. If UTG shoves over you then yea they probably have queens crushed. Anyway the call on the flop was good you were getting 2:1 on your call board is superdry and I don't think sets/higher PPs from later positions just shove over your hand like that. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jun 1, 2011 |
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Jun 1, 2011 16:50
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As far as I can tell the big problem was the raise on the flop, too small, what are you trying to achieve with it? It wont win the pot there vs a better hand, a weaker hand would probably fold and if he comes back over the top, you're queens are probably hosed. Calling the tight guys raise made sense though, if he hit a low set and sees that action hes probably not going to shove that in, if hes got top set, hes just going to let you two fight it out and call while you and UTG+1 keep paying him given his position. Most likely hand to shove imo is a draw, since a made hand better than yours is happy to milk your aggression and you made your hand look weak, so he wants you to fold rather than see if he hits it. [edit - What he said basically] [edit two] Best advice I've read recently is bet for a reason and fit your betsize around that reason. If you have the best hand (or you think you do), is there a 2nd best hand in the villains range and what bet would that hand call down. If don't think you'll win at showdown, but think your villains hand is weak enough to fold, or you think your villain can make a "big fold", what hand could you have given the board and your action and what bet would make him fold his hand. Also have no fear, if you think it's going to take 50bb to make him fold, and you think its a good spot, do it, if he calls and has you beat mark it for review and find out what clues he gave you that you missed, do your trial and error now when 50bb costs you a dollar and not 50. Sorry if any of thats patronising or anything but where ever I read it it helped me. Cast_No_Shadow fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 1, 2011 |
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Jun 1, 2011 17:52
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| # ? May 27, 2024 18:03 |
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Whoops. In the hand history isn't that clear that the cutoff called hijack's shove I thought it was headsup overpair vs. nut draw and overs. Anyway yea when the cutoff calls the shove after bet -> raise ->2x pot shove you're never good and it's a turbo fold unless you have reason to believe that he's a bad fish. Even ignoring the fact that you read him as tight, a random in that position's range their is like, set/JJ-AA and very rarely jacks and should pretty much always be a set. edit: Just expanding on what CNS said, just try and always have for betting/raising. Like, you raised because you thought you had the best hand, so it's for value so bet more cause you want to build a pot...your raise looks kinda weak and will result in getting put in a lot of lovely spots especially 4 handed with 2 players behind you. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jun 1, 2011 |
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Jun 1, 2011 19:37
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