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To continue on with Nenone's statement, those Tigers can withstand 23mm cannon fire, which is likely the only thing that can probably effectively brought to bear against them. It would make sense if they're being used for close combat against infantry formations and structures while the Gazelles snipe at armor. MANPADs could as well, but the thing was designed around them, with a reduced radar and thermal signature and a chaff/flare dispenser, and anything more capable and longer range would incur the wrath of NATO's fixed-wing assets, if it hasn't been blown up already. That, and at night, they're practically invisible, so AA guns being blind-fired is a bigger threat than shoulder-fired missiles.
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Jun 4, 2011 13:17
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Live Blogs June 4th LibyaFeb17.com Feb17.info quote:LibyaFTW tweets: “Tripoli is alive tonight shooting can be heard everywhere without interuption these are Gaddafi last days.” quote:NATO employed attack helicopters to hit targets in Libya for the first time on Saturday, an alliance statement said. “The targets struck included military vehicles, military equipment and fielded forces,” the statement said, without giving details of the location of the strikes. Two targets were hit and an armoured vehicle at a checkpoint, a Sky correspondent on HMS Ocean reported. The NATO statement said the use of attack helicopters provided increased flexibility to track and attack pro-Gaddafi forces attempting to hide in populated areas. quote:Apache helicopters, flying from the HMS Ocean, successfully targeted a military radar installation and a checkpoint around Brega using Hellfire missiles and its 30mm cannon. In the same area, Royal Air Force ground attack aircraft destroyed another military installation, whilst a separate RAF mission successfully attacked two ammunition bunkers at the large Waddan depot in central Libya quote:French Apache helicopters also participated in last night’s strike and hit a dozen military vehicles, including two armed pickup trucks. A spokesman said several helicopters had to respond to small arms fire from the ground, but managed to remain unharmed. quote:A Russian presidential envoy for Africa, Mikhail Margelov, said he would go to Libya’s Benghazi on June 6 for talks with the Libyan opposition. quote:Japan has frozen $4.4bn of assets belonging to Gaddafi and his inner circle. quote:On June 3rd, NATO aircraft flew 144 sorties, including 56 strike sorties. Some of the key targets included: quote:In Misrata, rebel leader Abdelsalam reported fighting in Dafniyah to the west of the city that is now in rebel hands.
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Jun 4, 2011 14:19
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Caro just posted this on GiP:Kevin Dawes posted:I'm still alive. Made it to Misrata. Doing good. Check the youtube station. Permaban me if you want. The videos have to get out. At some point he's going to get himself or someone else killed. At least he posted some slightly interesting first hand info.
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Jun 4, 2011 14:22
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I have to bring my friends home.
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Brown Moses posted:Caro just posted this on GiP: Although he has coherency problems he is at least a productive nutter. Kind of reminds me of the foreigners going to fight in the Spanish revolution, except just to watch and perform amateur surgery on people. I do wonder about the frigate challenge though, I thought NATO would be ushering in stuff from Benghazi. Ireland Sucks fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jun 4, 2011 |
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Jun 4, 2011 14:29
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It's probably to make sure it's not obviously Gaddafi troops trying to sneak in bombs or something.
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Jun 4, 2011 14:31
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Couple of updates: An independence flag being painted on a Tripoli highway in the middle of the night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEwNWB9-jMU quote:Libya rebels helping alleged rape victim quote:Britain’s William Hague, the foreign secretary, and Andrew Mitchell, the secretary of state for international development, are visiting Benghazi, where they will meet National Transitional Council leaders including Abdul Jalil, the chairman.
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Jun 4, 2011 17:24
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If the BBC reports are right the Yemeni President is alive but he probably wont be for long, he's got severe burns and shrapnel near his heart. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13653884 quote:Unconfirmed reports earlier said that Mr Saleh had flown to Saudi Arabia. If those injuries are true then I would imagine he has flown to Saudi as he is going to need some amazing surgeons to survive that and be in a fit state to do anything, never mind run a country.
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Jun 4, 2011 17:25
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Well... at least he's out of the country. That's good, right?
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Jun 4, 2011 17:26
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Depends who tries to take over and how. I've seen various Tweets which suggests NATO and the Benghazi rebels are trying to convince the Gaddafi forces at Brega to surrender, apparently to the point of writing a hotline number on boulder in the desert to call if they decide to surrender. A few more nights of helicopter attacks and I think they'll really start to waver.
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Jun 4, 2011 17:28
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Apparently there's alot of bombing at the moment in Tripoli, at least 10 explosions in half an hour according to CNN, unusually early in the day as well. AJA is also now claiming Saleh has gone to Saudi Arabia for treatment. Also, a NATO Psyops radio message: http://soundcloud.com/stefanazz/20110604-1412-10404-nato They alternate between English and Arabic, this is just the English section. [edit]Jenan Moussa just posted this   video of a protester shot by a sniper in Hama, Syria, yesterday:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQR-QzJK44I&NR=1 Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 4, 2011 |
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Jun 4, 2011 18:10
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Bit more on Saleh's condition:quote:Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh has been left with shrapnel near his heart and second-degree burns to his chest and face after an attack on his palace, the BBC reported on Saturday.
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Jun 4, 2011 18:28
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Brown Moses posted:Someone just posted this on Twitter, it's a map of who controls which towns and cities: Unconfirmed reports that Gayran, east of Yefren, has rebelled, with a bridgade having defected to the rebels.
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Jun 4, 2011 18:32
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That's a 3-inch piece of shrapnel near his heart, and it's not clear whether he would need surgery? Is that code for "he might just die instead"?
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Jun 4, 2011 18:34
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mr. nazi posted:That's a 3-inch piece of shrapnel near his heart, and it's not clear whether he would need surgery? Is that code for "he might just die instead"? More likely it means that they aren't sure which is more likely to kill him, the shrapnel or the surgery.
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Jun 4, 2011 18:37
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mr. nazi posted:That's a 3-inch piece of shrapnel near his heart, and it's not clear whether he would need surgery? Is that code for "he might just die instead"? You know how pulling an arrow out of a wound can cause as much/more damage than the wound itself? Think along those lines, except the arrow in question is a massive slice of steel next to someone's heart.
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Jun 4, 2011 18:44
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Going into surgery NOW would likely mean that Saleh would be out of the picture for weeks - his government would have a zero chance of staying in power during that time. At a critical moment like this, when he's struggling for his own position, he'd rather just take antibiotics and go to surgery later, if at all possible. That's my take, anyway.
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Jun 4, 2011 18:48
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Nenonen posted:Going into surgery NOW would likely mean that Saleh would be out of the picture for weeks - his government would have a zero chance of staying in power during that time. At a critical moment like this, when he's struggling for his own position, he'd rather just take antibiotics and go to surgery later, if at all possible. That's my take, anyway. One of the problems with being a tyrant is that anyone who could do your job while you recover from surgery could also do it after you are killed in a
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Jun 4, 2011 18:52
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ChaosSamusX posted:You know how pulling an arrow out of a wound can cause as much/more damage than the wound itself? Think along those lines, except the arrow in question is a massive slice of steel next to someone's heart. Maybe he can build a palladium arc reactor to power a magnet to keep the shrapnel from getting closer to his heart?
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Jun 4, 2011 18:57
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Nenonen posted:Going into surgery NOW would likely mean that Saleh would be out of the picture for weeks - his government would have a zero chance of staying in power during that time. At a critical moment like this, when he's struggling for his own position, he'd rather just take antibiotics and go to surgery later, if at all possible. That's my take, anyway. You'd think that the foremost concern would be ensuring he lives to see tomorrow, not trying his best to hold on to power that's rapidly slipping from his grasp.
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Jun 4, 2011 18:57
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Pureauthor posted:You'd think that the foremost concern would be ensuring he lives to see tomorrow, not trying his best to hold on to power that's rapidly slipping from his grasp. You'd think, but in that case he would have packed up before this even happened and would be living a happy life as a wealthy, healthy man somewhere in Not-Yemen. But when you have made it your career to be the President For Life, and have killed and tortured your opponents, it's kind of hard to tell yourself that there's no point in continuing. That, and the fear of what will happen to you and your family and your fortunes, a lot of which is still in the country, if you give up.
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Jun 4, 2011 19:05
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Al-Jazeera English is reporting that Saleh has left Yemen for medical attention in Saudi Arabia, and the Saudi government has negotiated a one-week ceasefire between tribal forces and Saleh's loyalists. Let's see how long this lasts.
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Jun 4, 2011 19:07
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Pureauthor posted:You'd think that the foremost concern would be ensuring he lives to see tomorrow, not trying his best to hold on to power that's rapidly slipping from his grasp. If he has really already been shipped to Saudi Arabia his power is already gone. the number of autocrats who hold onto power while being out of the country for the revolution is vanishingly small. Even if he stays in country his reign is pretty much already over, all that's left is the fighting.
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Jun 4, 2011 19:07
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Pureauthor posted:You'd think that the foremost concern would be ensuring he lives to see tomorrow, not trying his best to hold on to power that's rapidly slipping from his grasp. This is not how dictators work. Both Mubarak and Gaddafi had plenty of opportunity to gently caress off with their billions and live the rest of their lives as kings anyway (you know, except without the literal servants). It seems that power really is the ultimate drug. From what I gather only Ben Ali had the proper state of mind to leave so far and even he could have left as soon as the heat came and have enough money to find his own loving dynasty. Dictators are insane. That's mostly why they are dictators in the first place. Namarrgon fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jun 4, 2011 |
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Jun 4, 2011 20:14
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Massacre on the rooftop of Karak Mosque in Syria http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYKUZFL5qVA Jenan Moussa is currently Tweeting a translation: http://twitter.com/#!/jenanmoussa quote:00:56 -01:01 one says referring 2 dead man:"this guy has Kohl in his eyes." Another says:"this animal". Som1 mentions word "cheese". It's honestly one of the worst videos I've seen from the last few months, especially with the translation.
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Jun 4, 2011 20:23
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That video seems to have been shot by a Syrian soldier. I'm very curious how it got out.
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Jun 4, 2011 20:26
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Xandu posted:That video seems to have been shot by a Syrian soldier. I'm very curious how it got out. You see another taking pictures/video with their phone. I'm guessing professionalism isn't the major army requirement in Syria. So the same way these things always leak; people do hosed up stuff and then tape it and post it somewhere.
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Jun 4, 2011 20:29
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quote:11:13 Le Figaro French Apache helicopters also participated in last night’s strike and hit a dozen military vehicles, including two armed pickup trucks. A spokesman said several helicopters had to respond to small arms fire from the ground, but managed to remain unharmed. French Apache helicopters? What now?
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Jun 4, 2011 20:37
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Namarrgon posted:You see another taking pictures/video with their phone. I'm guessing professionalism isn't the major army requirement in Syria. So the same way these things always leak; people do hosed up stuff and then tape it and post it somewhere. Wouldn't even the most basic, universal iota of common sense take over at this point? Even the most stupid, ethically bankrupt person imaginable should probably realise that - you know - filming yourself committing war crimes and joking about it maybe isn't the best thing you can do with your time. Just maybe?
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Jun 4, 2011 20:48
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Boner Slam posted:French Apache helicopters? What now? Probably some kind of wacky translation error or misconception. According to NATO there were 4 Tigers and 12 Gazelles from BPC Tonnerre and 4 Apaches from HMS Ocean. Some versions have shortened this as "British Apaches and French attack helicopters", and someone probably has then drawn the conclusion of attack helicopter = Apache. 
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Jun 4, 2011 20:51
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ChaosSamusX posted:Wouldn't even the most basic, universal iota of common sense take over at this point? Even the most stupid, ethically bankrupt person imaginable should probably realise that - you know - filming yourself committing war crimes and joking about it maybe isn't the best thing you can do with your time. Just maybe?  to that thought!
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Jun 4, 2011 20:55
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suboptimal posted:Al-Jazeera English is reporting that Saleh has left Yemen for medical attention in Saudi Arabia, and the Saudi government has negotiated a one-week ceasefire between tribal forces and Saleh's loyalists. Let's see how long this lasts. Well that's him done. Time for the power struggle.
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Jun 4, 2011 20:59
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ChaosSamusX posted:Wouldn't even the most basic, universal iota of common sense take over at this point? Even the most stupid, ethically bankrupt person imaginable should probably realise that - you know - filming yourself committing war crimes and joking about it maybe isn't the best thing you can do with your time. Just maybe? I was just going to point out the torture by American soldiers (not picking on them, pretty sure this happens by most if not all nations). Yeah, people really are either that dumb or completely utterly convinced of their invulnerability and brilliantness never to get caught.
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Jun 4, 2011 21:00
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Jut posted:Well that's him done. Time for the power struggle. AJE and the NYT both walked back their reports and now are saying that there's Saudi doctors in Yemen and a medical plane at the airport just in case.
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Jun 4, 2011 21:02
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Brown Moses posted:
It's probably the worst footage I've ever seen, of anything. And I think I've seen a fair few in my time. These soldiers have no shred of humanity left in them. The worst thing is, it's easy to see all those people were shot in the head and on a rooftop; a mass execution?
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Jun 4, 2011 21:20
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Vice President + Commander of Armed Forces have taken over according to Al Jazeera.
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Jun 4, 2011 21:29
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:It's probably the worst footage I've ever seen, of anything. And I think I've seen a fair few in my time. These soldiers have no shred of humanity left in them. The worst thing is, it's easy to see all those people were shot in the head and on a rooftop; a mass execution? Well, what do you expect from a dictator's army? We've seen the same thing with Gaddafi's troops and his mercenaries, with their use of rape as a weapon. Soldiers of a dictator's regime are mostly poorly trained, and only used as shock troops for controlling the population. They're basically used for murder against the populace through brute force by the government, and not anything else.
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Jun 4, 2011 21:44
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Nuclear Spoon posted:Vice President + Commander of Armed Forces have taken over according to Al Jazeera. Do you mean Yemen? I don't think the other teetering regimes have Vice Presidents but I'm not sure.
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Jun 4, 2011 22:10
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Yeah, it's Yemen.
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Jun 4, 2011 22:18
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Xandu posted:AJE and the NYT both walked back their reports and now are saying that there's Saudi doctors in Yemen and a medical plane at the airport just in case. Apparently the Saudis have now said he is in fact in Saudi Arabia http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13658445 posted:Yemen's president Ali Abdullah Saleh has flown to Saudi Arabia for medical treatment, a day after he was wounded when his palace was shelled, Saudi officials say. Namarrgon posted:From what I gather only Ben Ali had the proper state of mind to leave so far and even he could have left as soon as the heat came and have enough money to find his own loving dynasty.
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Jun 5, 2011 00:23
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A lot of people on Twitter are breathless over Saleh's move to Saudi Arabia and his transfer of power to his VP, but at the same time, what exactly has changed? If his family is still there, and in control of the security forces, it doesn't seem like everyone's just going to pack it up and go home...
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Jun 5, 2011 01:04
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