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dj_clawson posted:2 years from now, when a comprehensive report shows that actually 3 people were just shot in the leg. Why has it seemed to suddenly become standard practice for Israel to shoot unarmed protesters in the leg, and then this is passed off as nothing of consequence?
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 20:40 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 15:10 |
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dj_clawson posted:Prediction: this is called a massacre by the entire world until 2 years from now, when a comprehensive report shows that actually 3 people were just shot in the leg. Because it's ok if they only get a little bit shot?
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 20:47 |
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dj_clawson posted:Palestinians also protest within PA controlled areas all the time - sometimes with guns and suicide vests on display - and Israel does nothing about it unless it turns violent on its own. Haha you have no idea what life for Palestinians is like do you? Israel is no better than white apartheid southafricans.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 20:51 |
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a japanese pop icon posted:Haha you have no idea what life for Palestinians is like do you? Israel is no better than white apartheid southafricans. I think most people here would agree that while Israel is a pretty reasonable government towards its own, it is brutally oppressive to the Palestinians within its sphere of power. I personally think Apartheid is a very good analogy, though.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 20:53 |
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ChaosSamusX posted:I think most people here would agree that while Israel is a pretty reasonable government towards its own, it is brutally oppressive to the Palestinians within its sphere of power. I personally think Apartheid is a very good analogy, though. I doubt apartheid "security" concerns were motivated by a violent mob of radical extremists funded and armed by Iran and in full control of a strip of land from which they fired rockets at civilian settlements. Even good analogies have their limits.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 21:25 |
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can you people please keep Israel/Palestine out of this thread?
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 21:27 |
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IRQ posted:Because it's ok if they only get a little bit shot? It's certainly a step down from shooting people to death.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 21:33 |
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dj_clawson posted:Palestinians also protest within PA controlled areas all the time - sometimes with guns and suicide vests on display - and Israel does nothing about it unless it turns violent on its own. Are you kidding me? This is probably the most obvious lie you've ever spouted on these forums, and I've read a few. If nothing else there's hundreds of hours of video evidence to the contrary easily accessible on the Internet, such at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyIiajWL_6U Or the weeklies in Bi'lin, etc, etc. Most likely something similar happened today in the Golans. *edit* VVVVVV Nelson Mandela was removed from the US's terrorist list in june 2009, so it's ok now. Svartvit fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jun 5, 2011 |
# ? Jun 5, 2011 21:33 |
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Sh3kel posted:I doubt apartheid "security" concerns were motivated by a violent mob of radical extremists funded and armed by Iran and in full control of a strip of land from which they fired rockets at civilian settlements. Even good analogies have their limits. Umkhonto we Sizwe. South Africa had to deal with the military wing of the African National Congress for the last 30 years of apartheid. They were backed by the communists in neighboring Mozambique, Namibia, and Angola, and fought in the Angolan Civil War alongside Cuba soldiers. I believe the MK even did suicide bombings at some point.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 22:11 |
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dj_clawson posted:People overlook things like that when they're cheering on Arab countries who are rushing to replace their oppressive regimes with honestly, some regimes that look only slightly less oppressive to their populations. What new Arab regimes are you talking about?
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 22:22 |
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I'm assuming he is talking about Egypt. If he is, he is totally right.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 22:24 |
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Less dumb rhetoric, more Libya discussion. 20 mins ago: quote:A powerful but distant blast was felt in the centre of Tripoli at around 9:00pm (1900 GMT) on Sunday, followed by stronger explosions a few minutes later, said an AFP correspondent who was unable to immediately determine the targets. I wonder what they are hitting. quote:NATO warplanes pounded Tripoli on Sunday and US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said it was only a matter of time before aides to embattled Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi abandon him. quote:The notorious hacker collective Anonymous has taken its campaign to the next level by releasing names and passwords for email accounts belonging to Middle East government officials: Anonymous is mostly a joke, but I'm impressed. Kudos. quote:Libya's rebel leaders must plan in detail how they would run the country if Muammar Gaddafi stood down and should learn from Iraq after the 2003 invasion, British Foreign Secretary William Hague said on Sunday. quote:Tunisian authorities endured the grim task on Sunday of attempting to recover the bodies of more than 200 migrants after their boat capsized, coastguard said. quote:545 soldiers loyal to Gaddafi, who were killed in battles with rebel fighters, have been buried in Misrata according to Muslim rites since the start of the conflict. quote:US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said on Sunday that Muammar Gaddafi's aides will inevitably abandon the Libyan strongman and "throw him under the bus." quote:British jets hit a military barracks in the Libyan capital early Sunday, intensifying NATO pressure on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi nearly four months into an uprising to end his erratic 42-year rule.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 22:36 |
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BTW I just read a probably false rumor from twitter ( http://www.twitlonger.com/show/au1i0g ) that states that there are plans to use mustard gas against the rebels. While I dont tend to place much importante on hearsay it also made me wonder: Could it be possible that, as Ghadaffi grows more and more desperate, he resorts to this kind of weapons in the future? I want to believe he would take into account that the second those missiles strike the ground all the credibility he has left would evaporate, and his compound would probably be bombed flat by the next day, but Im not sure somebody, who wanted to purge whole cities and encourages the use of rape as a weapon of fear, would be deterred by it
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 23:14 |
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Svartvit posted:Are you kidding me? This is probably the most obvious lie you've ever spouted on these forums, and I've read a few. If nothing else there's hundreds of hours of video evidence to the contrary easily accessible on the Internet, such at this: OK, not to derail this thread, but in response: This is obviously not what I'm talking about. If there's an area Israel control, has Israeli people living there, and they do not want hostile Palestinians (armed or unarmed) around, they have every right to say, "No, you cannot come in here" and post guards on the border, and if the warnings are completely ignored, the guards can prevent people from entering. The posted video, for example, was trying to enter a nearby settlement full of settlers who are sick of being attacked. If you want to argue, "Israel shouldn't be in the West Bank anyway! It's Palestinian land!" I would say to you, "I agree that there should be a Palestinian state, it should probably be in the West Bank, and Israel should not be building settlements there, but the fact of the matter is that because of crummy leadership on both sides, Israel does control it and does protect the citizens who live there." The right to protest has limits. Like here in the US, you can protest the existence of Israel, but at appropriate times, with the police watching you like during any other protest. You can't break into my apartment complex and march outside my door. There's public and private space. Or, worse, if you were a Canadian who felt Maine was part of Canada, and you had a history of violence against the US, and you wanted to march through the border and wander around Maine as protest, the US would say, "gently caress you, you're not coming in" and post armed guards at the border. Also: shouting at people's feet is better at center mass. You are trying to get them to disperse, which is hard if someone of them are willing to be martyrs to their cause.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 23:19 |
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papasyhotcakes posted:BTW I just read a probably false rumor from twitter ( http://www.twitlonger.com/show/au1i0g ) that states that there are plans to use mustard gas against the rebels. While I dont tend to place much importante on hearsay it also made me wonder: Could it be possible that, as Ghadaffi grows more and more desperate, he resorts to this kind of weapons in the future? I want to believe he would take into account that the second those missiles strike the ground all the credibility he has left would evaporate, and his compound would probably be bombed flat by the next day, but Im not sure somebody, who wanted to purge whole cities and encourages the use of rape as a weapon of fear, would be deterred by it My final hours of Gaddaffi involve him in his burned-out compound, throwing every available rock and falling plaster at the oncoming British troops.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 23:21 |
Paradox Personified posted:Can you school me on the alcohol/ al-kohol/kohl thing? I tried to trace it but Check it out.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 23:32 |
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Kenning posted:Check it out. Beaten, but it's always the obvious sites you forget if you haven't done field work in a while, isn't it...
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 23:49 |
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dj_clawson posted:My final hours of Gaddaffi involve him in his burned-out compound, throwing every available rock and falling plaster at the oncoming British troops.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 23:57 |
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Casimir Radon posted:I think it's going to look something like this. I think I could live with that ending.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 00:26 |
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A story from todays Guardian:quote:Nato strike force in Libya enjoys quick success with apache gunships And the NATO press briefing for June 5th Operations quote:Sorties conducted 05 JUNE: 139
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 09:37 |
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Live Blogs June 6th LibyaFeb17 Feb17.info AJE Guardian Tripoli quote:ChangeInLibya tweets: “A full day of NATO strikes on Tripoli & Gaddafi bldngs. Explosions started at 10am in the morning and still haven’t stopped. quote:Reuters Diplomacy quote:Sky News Russia is to send an envoy to meet the Libyan opposition in Benghazi. Syria quote:Syria now claims 23 people were killed when Israeli troops opened fire yesterday on pro-Palestinian protesters in the Golan Heights.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 09:51 |
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Israeli landmines. That says it all really. They are supposed to be banned under international law...
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 10:44 |
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Israeli landmines. That says it all really. They are supposed to be banned under international law... They're not a signatory of the Ottawa Treaty.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 10:53 |
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Based off what I've been reading about Misrata it seems that the rebels are still holding their positions at the request of NATO, and receiving reinforcements and equipment from Benghazi. The Misrata commander is also claiming that the Zliten rebels are being provided with weapons and telecommunications equipment, and are attacking Gaddafi troops at night. There were some reports yesterday that rebels had entered Brega, but there's been no solid confirmation.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 11:10 |
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Some footage of the Golan mow-down taken from the Israeli occupied side. Also featuring an interview with Mark "Goebbles" Regev, finally being talked back by someone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-lJkOzhZnk *edited for correctness
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 11:30 |
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Reuters has the first confirmation from a non-rebel source that Yafran is under rebel control:quote:YAFRAN, Libya, June 6 (Reuters) - Libyan rebels on Monday entered the town of Yafran, southwest of the capital, which was previously controlled by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, a Reuters photographer in the town said. Good to see it confirmed, and this also confirms that rebel forces can move freely between it and other captured towns in the area. That would mean that pretty much the entire Nafusa mountain region is under rebel control, and now they can move supplies over the border from Tunisia to the entire region.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 11:53 |
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Bit from the Guardian about Yemen:quote:There's is renewed diplomatic hope that President Saleh will finally stand down as president of Yemen, writes our Middle East editor Ian Black.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 12:05 |
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Interesting side note on the Palestinian charge the other day. The land mines set off by the molotov cocktails the protesters threw, were on the Syrian side of the border. Presumably, therefore, they were Syrian. Is Syria a signatory to the anti-landmines treaty?
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 12:59 |
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The Guardian has a piece of the Libyan governments pathetic propaganda efforts with Western journalists in Tripoli:quote:Gaddafi regime fails to fool media over injured child And as the cherry on the top of this story, a Tweet from moments ago by another foreign journalists in Libya: quote:Still broadcasting, watching it now RT @mpoppel: AFP: NATO-led warplanes hit Libyan state broadcaster: information ministry official
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 13:44 |
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Interesting if true, but there's reports via Twitter that Nafusa rebels have reached a place called Surman, 80km north of Yefren, and about 15-20km west of Zawiyah. Zawiyiah is only 40-50km west of Tripoli. Surman is also on the coast, which means if it was captured supplies and troops from Benghazi could land there, which would another disaster in a long line of disasters for Gaddafi. The outcome of all these depends on a few factors, mainly how many rebels have reached there, if there's a local rebel group to join them, and if whether or not they attempt to hold it.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 13:58 |
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Wait, am I reading that right; Gadaffi literally used a bomb on his own people for propaganda purposes?
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 14:01 |
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Brown Moses posted:Interesting if true, but there's reports via Twitter that Nafusa rebels have reached a place called Surman, 80km north of Yefren, and about 15-20km west of Zawiyah. Zawiyiah is only 40-50km west of Tripoli. Its all Urban / Semi Urban between Surman and Zawiyah, basically its almost one city that spreads along the coast; as such I don't think any fighting will be easy, assuming that is Gaddafi has any forces of note there.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 14:05 |
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Wait, am I reading that right; Gadaffi literally used a bomb on his own people for propaganda purposes? It sounds more like they dug a hole, threw an old bomb in it, and claimed it was a NATO dud. There was a story like that from early on in the war, where they were taken to a farm, shown a strangly dug out looking crater with random bit of metal in it, and were told it was NATO missile strike. Another bit of news: quote:Russian President Dmitry Medvedev's envoy Mikhail Margelov will meet Libyan rebel leaders in Benghazi on Tuesday but will not travel to Tripoli, an official said. Bit of a snub to the Gaddafi regime. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jun 6, 2011 |
# ? Jun 6, 2011 14:05 |
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I was under the impression that authoritarian regimes were supposed to be good at this whole propaganda thing. Why is everything they do so... clumsy?
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 14:12 |
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ukle posted:Its all Urban / Semi Urban between Surman and Zawiyah, basically its almost one city that spreads along the coast; as such I don't think any fighting will be easy, assuming that is Gaddafi has any forces of note there. If there's a local rebel group who have just been waiting for support, then the Nafusa rebels could provide them with the equipment they've been receiving across the Tunisian border, which includes night vision gear, sniper rifles, and MILAN anti-tank missiles. It'll make the area an absolute nightmare for Gaddafi troops to fight in, they won't be able to use the cover of night to attack the rebels, and there armoured vehicles will become death traps. It's also another front Gaddafi's troops have to engage the rebels in, and at the same time the rebels could secure everything to the west as well, especially as there's already been reports of seperate rebel activity in that area. I'll keep an eye out for more information related to it coming in. Few more updates, looks like State TV is off the air after all: quote:AFP NATO aircraft struck buildings belonging to Libyan state television on Monday. quote:calperryAJ tweeted: ”BREAKING: #Libyan state television is officially off the air. #NATOhas clearly hit what it was aiming at.” quote:Cal Perry reports from Ajdabiya that state TV went off air in the east of the country, and is now going up and down. Some other news from the East: quote:Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi’s forces fired rockets into the rebel-held east Libyan town of Ajdabiyah on Monday and clashes broke out on the main road further west, two rebel military sources said. It's nothing too exciting, small groups of Gaddafi troops have been trying to get around the rebel frontlines, and sometimes they suceed, but all they manage to do is damage some property and get NATO on their tail. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Jun 6, 2011 |
# ? Jun 6, 2011 14:21 |
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Brown Moses posted:The Guardian has a piece of the Libyan governments pathetic propaganda efforts with Western journalists in Tripoli: I don't understand why the hell they keep doing this. For gently caress's sake, NATO is bombing Libya with planes, gunships and predator drones, there has to be real collaterals to show the foreign journalists. Hell, the regime could just release numbers of civilian casualties and refuse to show foreigners anything. Instead they pull these stunts, which will cause any claim of civilian deaths at NATO hands to look like bullshit.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 14:24 |
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Pureauthor posted:I was under the impression that authoritarian regimes were supposed to be good at this whole propaganda thing. Why is everything they do so... clumsy? Because now instead of broadcasting propaganda on a state controlled TV station they're trying to do it on major international networks. Your average member of Congress or MP probably has a better funded propaganda department than the Libyan government and CNN and BBC are used to finding the story in the bullshit.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 14:25 |
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Just looking back at the story about the big group of religious leaders apparently killed in Brega by NATO. A journalist trapped in the Rixos hotel managed to disprove that thanks to co-ordinates provided by the regime and a Skype conversation. The regime is so used to controlling every aspect of the media they just can't manage it when so much attention is focused on their claims. AJE is still amazed by the capture of Yefren: quote:It's been a surprising morning, because what we have had are two static military fronts, one to the south of me and then one to the west of me - just east of Tripoli ... We understand that the fighting on that second front has been very heavy, there has been very little movement in the town of Misurata.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 14:40 |
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Brown Moses posted:Interesting if true, but there's reports via Twitter that Nafusa rebels have reached a place called Surman, 80km north of Yefren, and about 15-20km west of Zawiyah. Zawiyiah is only 40-50km west of Tripoli. No, they captured Surman junction, that is the point where the road to Surman branches off at the foot of the Nafusa mountains. It's just a few kilometers from Bir Ayyad and Yefren, they are trying to secure the supply route they have opened up there. Gaddafi troops unfortunately still control the alternative more direct (and easier to defend) route to Yefren and Qalaa on top of the plateau as far as I know.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 15:00 |
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# ? May 21, 2024 15:10 |
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Ah poo poo, I thought that was an amazingly fast advance.
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# ? Jun 6, 2011 15:03 |