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Just played this hand and am wondering if I was right playing it like that. Probably not! Am moving from nl10 but anyways. I do not a have much of a read except that he was 41/20 in ten hands so probably not a super nit. Thanks for any input/critique. http://www.pokerhand.org/?6127397 edit: for what its worth I am trying to puch him off AK or whatever until the river when I think I am good. Did think I won showdowns sometimes if no Q K A come tho. Iznogood fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Jun 3, 2011 |
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Jun 3, 2011 07:22
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I guess playing J5 (SOOTED!) is debatable. I guess once you do you played it fine. Edit: Iznogood posted:
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Jun 3, 2011 07:29
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Strong Sauce posted:I guess playing J5 (SOOTED!) is debatable. I guess once you do you played it fine. he he he. Well I was after his blind thats all. Flopped that flop and attempted to steal it some more. Reviewing the hand he does look more like some pocket but I never put him on KK for sure. edit: ha ha just realised I posted what he had after hidding it from the hand. Maybe its time to go sleep. Iznogood fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Jun 3, 2011 |
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Jun 3, 2011 07:42
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The palmface is for thinking he has exactly AK or limiting his range to that. He could easily have a wide range of cards. KK I would guess should be in his range but probably weighted less. If he really had Kings that seems like thin value from him unless he thinks you're going to call him with midpairs or have some history where he's done this on the river as a bluff on a missed flush and you've hero called him.
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Jun 3, 2011 08:19
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Iznogood posted:Just played this hand and am wondering if I was right playing it like that. Probably not! Am moving from nl10 but anyways. 41/20 means probably a fish. Fish love to call in the BB because they feel they already have invested money in the pot, I doubt he will fold even 50% of his hands. J5s equity, OOP, will suck. I fold preflop. Flop and turn bets are clear value bets, calling the turn min raise is good for pot odds. On the turn he is only doing this min raise for value, so his range is 4x, TJ, and sets (TT / JJ). Were ahead of that range when we spike our J, so I would lead river for value to prevent 4x from being scared of by the jack and checking back. Rob Filter fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jun 3, 2011 |
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Jun 3, 2011 08:57
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Iznogood posted:Just played this hand and am wondering if I was right playing it like that. Probably not! Am moving from nl10 but anyways. If he's 41/20 why in the hell would you blind steal with this hand? Yes it is just 10 hands but it is all you have to go on for a marginal move. Second question: Why are you trying to push him off AK or whatever and how are you doing that with your best sizing on the turn? MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jun 3, 2011 |
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Jun 3, 2011 09:04
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Well point taken guys! Reviewing my session its clear I have to adjust to 4 tabling. I played 30k+ hands in the last week at nl2/nl10 and am moving up. Pretty boring 4 tabling nl25. So getting involved in marginal spots just to get action 
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Jun 3, 2011 15:52
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Weird spot in my very first hand at a $2/$5 live game last night. Didn't have any history with the main villain in this hand. I'm in the BB with 4  6. 3 limpers including the SB, I check.Flop comes Q 5 5 rainbow. Checks around. Turn comes 7 and completes the rainbow. Checks around again. River comes 8. The pot is $18 which includes the rake taken out. SB checks. I bet $15. MP1 calls $15. Villain raises to $80. SB folds. I raise to $180. MP1 folds. Villain raises all in for ~$500 total. I fold. I know hindsight is 20/20, but should I have just flatted his raise there with the low straight, or should I have raised for value as I did? Again it was literally my first hand of the night against a complete unknown. My rationale for raising was that live players are completely capable of slowplaying a 5 until the river. Of course he could have had 77 or 88 as those are limping hands in live games, and 69 might be in his limping range too, but I figured a 5 consisted of the majority of his raising range and I thought a smallish raise to $180 would get a call from 5x. When he raised again I had to put him on a full house a majority of the time, so I folded.
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Jun 3, 2011 16:01
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Mind_Taker posted:should I have just flatted his raise there with the low straight, or should I have raised for value as I did? Small pot, paired board, rear end end, live nits = just call.
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Jun 3, 2011 17:24
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Ran into a few tough spots with pre-flop all ins today. How would you have played these situations? First example: this is the third hand I've played since sitting, with no history with villain, so I have no read. Merge No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (8 handed) - Merge Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com UTG+1 ($4.28) MP1 ($2.72) MP2 ($4.58) CO ($4.38) Hero (Button) ($3.92) SB ($1.58) BB ($4) Villain (UTG) ($3.10) Preflop: Hero is Button with K  , AVillain bets $0.12, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Villain raises to $0.54, Hero raises to $1.22, Villain raises to $2.30, Hero... ... raises to $3.92 (All-In), Villain calls $0.80 (All-In) I think I should have probably flatted the raise to 2.30 here, or flatted the raise to 0.54 This was the 16th hand I'd seen from the Villain, who was around 50/0 over 15 hands. Merge No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (8 handed) - Merge Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com Villain (BB) ($5.68) UTG ($3.14) UTG+1 ($4.27) MP1 ($3.59) Hero (MP2) ($3.88) CO ($4) Button ($4) SB ($1.96) Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K , A2 folds, MP1 calls $0.04, Hero bets $0.12, 3 folds, Villain raises to $5.68 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero... ...calls Villain was 10/9 over ~150 hands here. Merge No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (8 handed) - Merge Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com Villain (Button) ($4) SB ($4) BB ($4.80) UTG ($4.86) Hero (UTG+1) ($6.88) MP1 ($4) MP2 ($3.94) CO ($3.27) Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K  , K1 fold, UTG bets $0.12, Hero raises to $0.28, 3 folds, Villain raises to $1.08, 2 folds, Hero... ...shoves I'm unsure of whether I'm just being results oriented here and played correctly, or if I am too eager to get all my chips in with hands that are not AA.
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Jun 4, 2011 01:57
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You seem to be raising way too small in all of those hands. hand 1 raise to like .37-.45, hand 2 raise to .16-.2, hand 3 .37-.45. Nothing wrong with getting any of those hands in pre but you gotta tune your raises to be larger
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Jun 4, 2011 09:55
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waar posted:You seem to be raising way too small in all of those hands. hand 1 raise to like .37-.45, hand 2 raise to .16-.2, hand 3 .37-.45. Nothing wrong with getting any of those hands in pre but you gotta tune your raises to be larger I think I agree on hands 1 and 3, but I'm unsure on 2. I try to keep my preflop raises all evenly sized. I've been playing at about 22/14/4 and going with 3x BB on 95% of all PF raises where I'm the first to raise, but I've also read some advice suggesting that my PF raise should consistently be 3x + 1x * n where n = number of limpers instead. As a relatively new to NL player, what strategy would you suggest for determining when and by how much to vary pf raise amount?
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Jun 4, 2011 10:29
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nemesis07 posted:I think I agree on hands 1 and 3, but I'm unsure on 2. I try to keep my preflop raises all evenly sized. I've been playing at about 22/14/4 and going with 3x BB on 95% of all PF raises where I'm the first to raise, but I've also read some advice suggesting that my PF raise should consistently be 3x + 1x * n where n = number of limpers instead. As a relatively new to NL player, what strategy would you suggest for determining when and by how much to vary pf raise amount? Yes, this is what you should be doing. The reason for that: by only raising 3x after someone has limped you are still giving too good of pot odds for others (and the original limper) to call.
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Jun 4, 2011 16:43
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You are on the BTN at a 9 player table. Everyone limps to you and you raise to 3BB with AA. You see how that is bad, no?
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Jun 4, 2011 19:40
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nemesis07 posted:I think I agree on hands 1 and 3, but I'm unsure on 2. I try to keep my preflop raises all evenly sized. I've been playing at about 22/14/4 and going with 3x BB on 95% of all PF raises where I'm the first to raise, but I've also read some advice suggesting that my PF raise should consistently be 3x + 1x * n where n = number of limpers instead. As a relatively new to NL player, what strategy would you suggest for determining when and by how much to vary pf raise amount? If you want to keep your PF raises evenly sized then just "raise pot" preflop. Most casual players do this and you'll fit right in with them which is good.
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Jun 4, 2011 19:46
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Live 1/2 with a really strange table dynamic and a villain with a bunch of conflicting tells: villian in this hand is a large guy, 30ish, ex or current military with a bunch of tattoos. he had been talking a lot to other players at the table and especially to a hot girl to his left from the same state as him (hawaii). my image is pretty TAGish standard player. i had rivered him in 2/3 pots we played so i think he was annoyed at me before this hand. i had only sat down about 25minutes before so i hadn't seen him do much but i believed he was a decent player. i have ~$260 he has $550 or so. i open UTG+1 with Q Q to $15...mp calls...villian in CO looks at his cards says "it's time to get my money back" and immediately calls. i'm pretty sure he has like Ax/pp below tens/connectors.$48 pot. flop comes: 6 32. i cbet ~35. mp folds. villian stands up (which is usually a sign of a monster according to "read 'em and reap") and raises 80 more in a really stringy way....calls and then bets in 8 units of 2 $5 chips (which is usually really weak and supposed to look strong). he's looking down at the table the whole time in order to raise that way. i think for a bit about wtf he could be raising me here with and the whole time i'm thinking he's chatting kinda loudly with the girl. i call....believing he would do this to me with any kind of draw. it would suck if he had 54 but w/e. i was going to fold turn if an ace came c/call a heart/check call a blank.turn 245 pot: black 9. i check and he immediately goes all in. he gets really fidgety, is looking away from me mostly and starts talking to this girl again really loudly about random stuff in hawaii for like 2 minutes while i'm tanking. i say "ok i think i have to call here"...he immediately stands up again and looks like he's about to table his cards holding them pretty high with an excited look on his face. i mean this board makes no sense to bluff at on the turn w the busted flush/straight draw based on how much i have behind so wtf can he have here. i am 100% sure he believes i have TT-QQ. he must want me to fold but he was also showing signs of extreme strength. i also think he would do this with set/2 pair. hero???? cliffs of the tells: 1) aggressive personality type (more prone to bluff) 2) being extremely talkative and looking confident (strong holding) 3) stringy raise on the flop (weak) 4) fidgety shoulders (strong) 5) standing up (super-strong) 6) pissed off at me (more likely to try and steal a pot) also what does it usually mean when someone is chatting lot after shoving? it's usually nuts right? edit: i knew that check-calling turn on a blank would basically be an allin for me just the table dynamic/his actions messed with my plan. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jun 7, 2011 |
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Jun 7, 2011 12:03
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Pot is 275 on turn btw, you have 130 behind, so you have to call 130 to win 405 getting a little better than 3 to 1. You only need to be good here 24% (130/(405+130)) of the time for this to be a breakeven call. The only real decision is on the flop because you really can't get half your stack in and give much consideration to folding the turn. I would just shove flop, pretty wet board so lots of draws are getting it in with you and even worse one-pair hands like 77-jj. I don't think we're deep enough to bother calling to keep bluffs in on turn except I guess Ace-high type hands that have no flush draw, but then are you really folding to any Ace on the turn after getting half your stack in on the flop? Also dude sounds like he's a little tilted/spewy.
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Jun 7, 2011 13:44
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yea it took me way longer to make my decision on the flop than turn. i dunno, i just think just shoving 65bb on the turn after i just got reraised just screams that i will be called by a set. and obviously i can't fold out any draws/made hands. but i think shoving ~100bb on flop is bad cause i have like zero FE in this game, just an overpair and i am a little deep, i don't see how he's raising on that flop with worse PP unless he's really spewey (i hadn't seen him play enough to confirm that he is) or thinks i'm randomly c-betting low wet boards into two players. i don't think he would just spazz out with 77/44. he was definitely tilted but i'm not sure he was spewey. i was prepared to snap-call allin on turn (and would against most randoms) but this guy appeared really comfortable/confident and when he stood up looking very happy to go to showdown right before i decided to fold. if i fold whatever i can topoff. edit: i think he was tilted in the sense that he wanted to win pots versus me regardless of how much $$$ he could've gotten out of it. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Jun 7, 2011 |
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Jun 7, 2011 14:11
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MassRayPer posted:If you want to keep your PF raises evenly sized then just "raise pot" preflop. Most casual players do this and you'll fit right in with them which is good.
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Jun 7, 2011 17:52
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Puosu posted:The habit of smashing the pre-configured buttons is something that should be left to the casual players, for they are the ones making you your money. The potsize button completely ignores position which is of vast importance when deciding on the proper amount to raise pre. Therefore every time position should have an effect on your play you are effectively leaking dollars, euros, pesos or whatever might be the currency of your choice by pressing the damned buttons created by the even moreso damned people taking rake out of your hard earned pots. Kittens also die. Varying your preflop raises by position is definitely not a universally held standard, especially in shorthanded games (you have a bit more room to maneuver on this in full ring, I think, as there are some more extreme circumstances). Just raising to pot, especially at microstakes and lowstakes, really isn't a bad idea. It's a hell of a lot better than most people do, it'll always be at least close to what you want. Now, 3bet sizing is totally different and shouldn't be reduced to "hit pot," but that is a different conversation. edit: also welcome to pitr i guess!!
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Jun 7, 2011 18:53
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Puosu posted:The habit of smashing the pre-configured buttons is something that should be left to the casual players, for they are the ones making you your money. The potsize button completely ignores position which is of vast importance when deciding on the proper amount to raise pre. Therefore every time position should have an effect on your play you are effectively leaking dollars, euros, pesos or whatever might be the currency of your choice by pressing the damned buttons created by the even moreso damned people taking rake out of your hard earned pots. Kittens also die. At microstakes, I would say that the players that are varying their bet sizes preflop tend to be on the worse side. When I see someone raise to 2.5x UTG (I play fr) right away I make a note that he did that, because players that do probably had just read Little Green Book and is following that book to the letter, making them super easy to play against. I like mashing buttons because of consistency and it's actually a raise size I like (3.5x open, 4.5x after 1 limper).
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Jun 7, 2011 19:23
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etcetera08 posted:Varying your preflop raises by position is definitely not a universally held standard, especially in shorthanded games (you have a bit more room to maneuver on this in full ring, I think, as there are some more extreme circumstances). Just raising to pot, especially at microstakes and lowstakes, really isn't a bad idea. It's a hell of a lot better than most people do, it'll always be at least close to what you want. Thanks for the welcome.
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Jun 7, 2011 19:34
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Here's a question... what happens if someone says something like that "Okay, I pretty much have to call here" when they are put to a decision and the opponent flips his cards over. That, to me, is a call. It isn't "I think I should call here" or "I can't see myself folding this" but a flat out statement of "I have to call" How is that not binding?
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Jun 8, 2011 05:16
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Yah, i think dr. eat's opponent might have really thought his statement was binding. I've heard different rules about what you can say, I think it depends on the room. If the guy doesn't say exactly "I call", I don't show my cards until the dealer tells me to...
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Jun 8, 2011 05:36
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Baddog posted:Yah, i think dr. eat's opponent might have really thought his statement was binding. Basically this. People say a bunch of dumb poo poo during poker hands so I just let the dealer make mistakes for me.
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Jun 8, 2011 11:12
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nah he definitely did not think that it was binding or that i had called...he did immediately stand up afterwards ready to slam down his cards on the table after i said it tho. i think he said to me afterwards "so are you calling or folding?" but this hand was like a month ago so i can't remember the convo exactly. plus it was fairly ambiguous. what if someone says like: "i think i should shove" "i'm capable of a call" "normally here i'd want to raise..." - those aren't that much more ambiguous than what i wrote. and yea, this stuff needs to be left to the dealer. my intent with that statement was extremely ambiguous and i was trying to get a reaction out of him. especially in a foreign casino like the one i'm playing in only very clear statements like "call" "raise" "allin" should be binding imo. @Crazy685: uh if the guy flips his cards over it's his mistake and i don't think "i think i have to call" is binding unless it's a super strict casino...i probably wouldn't go back. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jun 8, 2011 |
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Jun 8, 2011 14:47
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No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com UTG+1 ($4.15) MP1 ($4) Hero (MP2) ($2.53) CO ($4.15) Button ($4.04) SB ($4.04) BB ($1.60) UTG ($5.50) Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K , K UTG calls $0.04, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.08, 2 folds, SB raises $0.30, 2 folds, Hero raises $0.48, SB calls $0.24 Flop: ($1.20) 6 , A, 7 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.32, SB calls $0.32 Turn: ($1.84) 7 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.32, SB raises $1.31, Hero calls $0.99 River: ($4.46) J (2 players)SB checks, Hero calls $0.34 (All-In), SB calls $0.34 Total pot: $5.14 Results: SB had Q , Q (two pair, Queens and sevens).Hero had K , K (two pair, Kings and sevens).Outcome: Hero won $4.89 quote:luvnu4eva: ROFL Imprudent? I dunno. I was presuming he wouldn't have raised pre-flop with 77 or a single ace, and he was check calling so I presumed no AA.
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Jun 8, 2011 17:40
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Pretty much all of your bets need to be bigger. You're laying 5-1 on the flop and 8-1 on the turn!
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Jun 8, 2011 18:08
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So many things wrong with the hand. As to whether he has an Ace... really difficult to see him with any Ace hand other than AQ. unless he really likes 3-betting worse Aces here. But I don't know if you realized that when you called turn here. Your betsizing is atrocious though, that totally overshadows his poor play I think.
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Jun 8, 2011 18:57
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Your preflop raise sizes are making this super difficult to play compared to the standard shipshipshiplolmoneys. Minraising with a limper in is On top of that please do buy in with a minimum of hundred big blinds the next time you take a seat.
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Jun 8, 2011 19:15
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Haha thanks. Will try and work on my betsizing. A lot.
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Jun 8, 2011 19:46
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?6132837 I know my turn bet is way too small but any other feedback? Is the donk-bet on the flop OK or should I have gone for a c/r? River seems a clear b/f to me.
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Jun 10, 2011 02:48
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vampire posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?6132837 I don't see why you c/f the river. You're realistically only losing to 33 44 TT (no way he raises UTG+1 with any other full house hand). My read is either a high pocket pair (less likely) or something like A3 (more likely).
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Jun 10, 2011 06:48
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discstickers posted:I don't see why you c/f the river. You're realistically only losing to 33 44 TT (no way he raises UTG+1 with any other full house hand). My read is either a high pocket pair (less likely) or something like A3 (more likely). I didn't. I bet and then folded to his huge shove when the board paired. The way he played passive until the river just screamed that he'd rivered a boat. :EDIT: ...and he pretty much never has A3 there, mainly because I hold the Ac. vampire fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jun 10, 2011 |
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Jun 10, 2011 09:06
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vampire posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?6132837 Do you have any reads? This is pretty much b/f (or sometimes even just c/f) against most villains but probably clearer with some reads. I mean your line is so strong he can't really have anything besides a FH. Also what is his perception of you? Edit: to answer your questions, turn bet is fine, donk bet is fine. A b/b/b line is way better since you want to have a chance to b/3b flop here against villain's stronger hands. I'd only check here if Villain is very weak-passive, if I've been c/R'ing a lot of flops like this and won't get any credit for a hand, or to prevent people from just folding every time I bet on a monotone flop. discstickers posted:I don't see why you c/f the river. You're realistically only losing to 33 44 TT (no way he raises UTG+1 with any other full house hand). My read is either a high pocket pair (less likely) or something like A3 (more likely). Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Jun 10, 2011 |
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Jun 10, 2011 09:35
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Strong Sauce posted:Do you have any reads? This is pretty much b/f (or sometimes even just c/f) against most villains but probably clearer with some reads. I mean your line is so strong he can't really have anything besides a FH. I only got out of line with him once when I made a really bad play and 4-bet/folded when I thought he was re-stealing my BTN raise.
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Jun 10, 2011 10:15
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I need help with bet sizing, especially preflop for now. Let's say I have a premium hand (KK) and I want the looser players at the table to potentially call or reraise me if they have anything, but I also want to make them pay for it. Let's say it's a 10-man table, $.02/$.05 and I'm UTG. What's the right bet size? I currently just double the BB (bet 10 cents), is that too low? Feels like I'm leaving money on the table but I don't wanna scare people with my bet  Now, same question, same hand, but I'm the button. Let's say three people limped and the dude behind me raised to .10 so the pot is $0.32. I assume I'll want to bet more here, but by how much? I realize the exact figures would depend on what kind of people I'm playing with, but I'm just asking for ballpark figures here. Any general resources on bet sizing would be helpful, too.
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Jun 19, 2011 03:14
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Ashenai posted:I need help with bet sizing, especially preflop for now. Let's say I have a premium hand (KK) and I want the looser players at the table to potentially call or reraise me if they have anything, but I also want to make them pay for it. When you raise UTG, you are going to have a much stronger range than when you raise on the BTN. Because of this, you want to raise larger to immediately put more money in the pot with your strong hand range and to discourage people from calling since you will be out of position for the rest of the hand. Never alter bet sizing based on your hand strength, but use other variables like your table position, and the general calling and 3betting tendencies of the people yet to act. When you raise on the BTN, you are going to have a very wide range. If you make a large raise, people can exploit this by 3betting you very liberally since your range is weak and you will have to fold too often. Therefore you want to raise smaller to give people less incentive to 3bet you, and to encourage people to call out of position from the blinds. Nobody is winning long term flatting out of the blinds so once you learn to read hands, you should be fine letting people call and playing pots out of position against you. When I used to 4 table 6max NL rush, I would be playing so many hands that it was too much work to raise a different amount based on my table position in every hand and the exact table dynamic of that specific rush hand. So I would simplify it and raise 3x UTG and UTG+1, 2.5x on the CO and BTN, and 3x in the small blind. For each person who has limped in front of me, I would add an additional big blind to my raise size. If I was in the blinds (out of position against the limpers) I would add another big blind. At a 10-man table, if there are more than 3 limpers I would also add an additional big blind on top. If you are on the BTN and there is a short stack in the blinds (total stack less than 20 big blinds), I would advocate minraising the BTN to reduce their immediate profit from shoving over your raise (an effective strategy in NL cash). I've looked into this a lot over the years, and you really have to alter your preflop raise sizes in NL tournaments, so I have a lot of experience with it. Here is the exact raise sizes that I would use at a live 10-man NL table, assuming it has been folded to me. UTG 4.5x UTG+1 4x UTG+2 3.5x UTG+3 3x LJ 2.8x HJ 2.6x CO 2.4x BTN 2.2x SB 2.8x In your example of 3 people limping and then someone minraising to .10, my 3bet sizing on the BTN with KK would be .10 x 3 plus one big bilnd for each limper. So in this case .50 looks perfect. Finally, I am only recommending raising 4.5x UTG assuming it is a low stakes, live cash game. People will not be 3betting your UTG raises light so you do not have to worry about being exploited. If you're playing online, midstakes, or there are solid players at the table, you should probably stick to 3-4x at the max. However it is not uncommon to see huge preflop raises (12x) in live cash games. Just make sure you are balanced and you can raise to whatever size you think the situation warrants. Spasms fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jun 19, 2011 |
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Jun 19, 2011 04:07
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Amazing post, thanks so much. I'll be referring to it a lot 
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Jun 19, 2011 04:15
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Spasms posted:When you raise on the BTN, you are going to have a very wide range. If you make a large raise, people can exploit this by 3betting you very liberally since your range is weak and you will have to fold too often. Therefore you want to raise smaller to give people less incentive to 3bet you, and to encourage people to call out of position from the blinds. Just to clarify, I should be 3betting back at a raiser when he's raising fairly often from late position when I'm in the BB/SB when I put them on a wider range?
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Jun 20, 2011 02:47
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