Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Latest NATO update

quote:

Sorties conducted 06 JULY: 140
Strike sorties conducted 06 JULY: 57

Key Hits 06 JULY:
In the vicinity of Brega: 1 Military Refuelling Equipment, 8 Armed Vehicles, 2 Armoured Fighting Vehicles, 1 Truck.
In the vicinity of Zlitan: 8 Armed Vehicles.
In the vicinity of Misratah: 3 Armed Vehicles.
In the vicinity of Waddan: 1 Military Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Yafran: 1 Artillery Piece, 1 Armed Vehicle.
In the vicinity of Zintan: 1 Armed Vehicle.
In the vicinity of Gharyan: 1 Anti-Aircraft Gun.

This confirms the change in tactics by NATO, focusing on the front lines. There also seems to be a pattern Brega where NATO will hit a large number of targets on one day, then have 3 or 4 days where they destroy one or two targets a day, before carrying out another large number of strikes on one day. It's also one of the largest number of strikes I've seen in Zliten and Misrata for quite some time.

It's also interesting to note the small number of strikes in Nafusa, and this possibly might be something to do with the fact that the Nafusa rebels deploying a small number of tanks to use against Gaddafi forces in the area.

The military storage facility in Waddan has also been bombed for the past 8 days, so it must be pretty massive and important. Waddan is on an intersection of main roads that lead to Brega and Misrata, so I'm guessing that's something to do with it. If it's the main supply depot for Brega, which based on both their locations it well could be, then the combined destruction of refuelling facilities at Brega and of the storage facility at Wadden could mean Brega is very isolated from supply lines at the moment. The question is whether or not all of Gaddafi's defenses are in Brega, and will the fall of Brega result in the fall of everything along the coastal road to Sirte.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 09:41

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 14:32

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

The BBC reporting in Misrata is Tweeting a few things. First of all he's saying the rebels have told him they plan to dig in in the N'aimah area, about 5-6km outside the centre of Zliten, then advance through the Suq Al Thulatha (Tuesday Market) area. Other reports suggest they are currently fighting in Suq Al Thulatha, and they've are using N'aimah as a staging point for any attacks.

Currently they are frustrated by the lack of ammo supplies coming from Benghazi, and want more NATO presence in the air as it stops Gaddafi artillery from firing, even if they aren't actually attacking anything. They've still got about 4km of fairly open terrain to fight across before they reach a built up area, so they'll still be fairly vunerable to artillery.

Here's a couple more articles about the progress of the war in Misrata and Nafusa:

quote:

Libyan Rebels Seek Misrata Breakout as NATO Says �Game Over� for Qaddafi
Libyan rebel forces in besieged Misrata launched their biggest attack in more than a month to try to break through the government troops entrenched around the coastal city, as the head of the NATO alliance said that the �momentum is against� regime leader Muammar Qaddafi.

Rebel infantry, aided by mortars, advanced across no-man�s land and seized ground from pro-Qaddafi forces. Previous attempts have failed to break through government lines close to the town of Zlitan, west of Misrata.

Rebel leaders said NATO conducted air strikes against government forces around Zlitan in the past two weeks, and has used naval gunfire. While NATO jets circled the area today, there was no sign of their direct engagement in the battle.

By evening, rebels said they were close to Zlitan. �We are three kilometers away,� said a rebel commander, Hassan Duen. Asked if they would go on to try and capture Zlitan, he nodded affirmatively.

�For Qaddafi, it is game over,� NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen told reporters today at a briefing in Brussels. �Momentum is against Qaddafi; his economic strength to wage war against his country is declining.�

The attempt by Qaddafi to retake rebel territory has �fallen apart� as opposition forces capture key cities and the alliance maintains its air and sea campaign, Rasmussen said.

Government forces demonstrated they still maintain firepower around Misrata. Gunfire and impacts from government Grad rockets began in the early morning and continued in the west of the Misrata pocket throughout the day.

Rebels Advance

Rebels said they had overrun a series of checkpoints and camps in the no-man�s land between the western edge of the pocket and Zlitan, a 30 kilometer gap.

Misrata�s Hikma hospital was full and by late afternoon it had recorded 13 dead fighters with 24 wounded.

The rebels have launched several offensives across no-man�s land in recent weeks, each time stopping short of Zlitan and its main belt of government defenses.

Rasmussen said on July 4 that NATO would continue its offensive in Libya until it meets the goals sanctioned by a United Nations resolution that authorized military action to protect civilians.

NATO is under pressure internally as some member governments face political opposition to the conflict. Norway announced June 10 that it was withdrawing four of six fighter jets and the rest by August 1.

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization has set three objectives for Libya: a complete halt to attacks on civilians by government forces; the withdrawal of those troops to barracks; and access to humanitarian aid for the people of Libya, Rasmussen said then.

Qaddafi�s �capability to attack civilians has been considerably decreased and we consider that a success of our operation,� Rasmussen said today.

quote:

Libyan Rebels Gain Inches Toward Link to Tripoli
Rebels opposed to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi seized control of this village in the mountains on Wednesday, extending their hold in western Libya and inching toward a supply route to the capital that they hope to sever.

After a half-day gun battle, Colonel Qaddafi�s soldiers yielded the town in the early afternoon, firing rockets and mortars to cover their withdrawal. The ordnance exploded on the hillsides around the town with reverberating booms and plumes of dust and smoke that briefly kept the rebels away.

But the rebels flowed in behind the fleeing troops, capturing more than a dozen of them and collecting the departed soldiers� abandoned ammunition and equipment. Soon they were refueling their cars and pickup trucks at the gas station they now held.

Qawalish changed hands while rebels elsewhere reported making progress outside of Misurata, east of the capital, Tripoli. They said they were advancing toward the city of Zlitan. Those reports could not be independently confirmed.

In the mountains, the rebels said they hoped their day signaled new momentum for a fight in western Libya that had been deadlocked for more than a week. �We are doing well,� said Sofian Alhaj, a fighter who said he was a former employee of an investment company run by Seif al-Islam el-Qaddafi, one of the Libyan leader�s sons. �Now we will keep going, until we are in Tripoli.�

That ambition, if realized, would most likely occur in increments. Geographically, the seizure of Qawalish marked a minor shift in the front lines. But it moved the rebels within about 35 miles of Gharyan, a small city astride a strategic highway running south from Tripoli.

The highway heads south to Sabha, the central Libyan city that the rebels regard as a principal source of war mat�riel and other supplies for Colonel Qaddafi�s government, which is blockaded by NATO from the sea and pressured overland by rebels from the east.

As the war drags on into summer, capturing Gharyan has become one of the rebels� main goals in western Libya. The rebels say that as many as 900 of Colonel Qaddafi�s soldiers are garrisoned there, backed by rockets and artillery, and that others are occupying villages and blocking positions along the roads from the west, making the approaches perilous.

Both sides suffered in the battle on Wednesday. At least 13 pro-Qaddafi soldiers and 7 rebels were killed. Many more were wounded, and the rebels claimed to have captured at least 15 soldiers.

After seizing Qawalish, the rebels did not press farther. Many of their fighters pulled back to the west in the midafternoon as Colonel Qaddafi�s soldiers shelled the village. After several ground-to-ground rockets exploded with roars that shook the town, scores of the rebels ran to their cars and trucks and sped away, leaving behind what appeared to be a holding force.

As the main body of rebels backed up, firing weapons in the air triumphantly, their behavior in the fight reflected the mix of enthusiasm, inexperience and poor state of equipment that has defined the anti-Qaddafi forces throughout Libya for much of the war.

When the rebels pushed into Qawalish with trucks crammed with fighters, some trucks contained only one rifle for every three or even four men. And when they moved forward on the village, the fighters stayed largely on the road or near its shoulders, neglecting to sweep and secure their flanks.

At one point, the advance carried the rebels past a Qaddafi mortar position just behind a short, steep ridge off the road. Shortly after the rebels arrived at a cluster of abandoned buildings that had been a Qaddafi defensive position and resupply point, the mortar crew opened fire, shelling the rebels effortlessly as they milled about.

The rounds landed perhaps 75 yards away, explosion after explosion, until most of the rebels drove away � again neglecting to climb the ridge and clear the pro-Qaddafi fighters behind it.

The area near the buildings also revealed the continuing hazards even in places that change hands: antipersonnel and antivehicle land mines that Colonel Qaddafi�s forces had buried along one of their flanks � threats that the rebels said they were just beginning to clear.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 10:26

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Update from UKMilOps:

quote:

On Tuesday, RAF jets used Paveway guided bombs to mount a precision strike on the large ammunition depot at Waddan in central #Libya
The attack destroyed five storage bunkers buried in the hillsides.
The same flight conducted an armed reconnaissance patrol over the Djebel Nafousa, 300 miles to the north west.
In the armed reconnaissance patrol, a regime mortar position near Yafran was located and successfully attacked.
Patrols over the Djebel Nafousa continued on Wednesday, and RAF aircraft destroyed an artillery piece near Gharyan.
Further to the east, an armed pick-up truck was spotted and destroyed near Zlitan.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 13:14

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Not much seems to have happened today. CJ Chivers is just Tweeting that the rebels in Nafusa are demining the town they've captured, apparently 100's of AP and AT mines litter the area.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 16:41

mobn: May 23, 2005; by Ozmaugh

Can I get an update about the situation in Egypt? I lost touch with the issue, but I've heard that the military has been getting rather despotic.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 18:36

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

Did anyone else catch Saleh's speech? That dude was seriously messed up- bandaged hands, not moving his body while he spoke, and it looked like his skin was several shades darker than before (bad makeup job covering burns?) He also reported that he had more than eight operations in Saudi Arabia.

This is why you limit your exposure to Semtex-lined tanning booths. Holy poo poo.

As far as Egypt, the long and short of it is that people are pissed at SCAF for a number of things, including the slow pace of reform, kicking the can of trials for former regime figures and indicted members of the security forces down the road, and questions regarding the legitimacy of the recent constitutional amendments. Yesterday, people rioted in Suez after a bunch of cops who killed people during the uprising got bail, and last week, there were clashes after former Int. Minister Habib al-Adly's trial for killing protesters was postponed. There's going to be huge demonstrations tomorrow, and everyone- the April 6 Movement, National Association for Change (El Baredai's group), the Muslim Brotherhood, Coptic organizations, and even the Salafists (!) will demonstrate. Things could get very out of hand tomorrow- SCAF has really got to step things up on a political and judicial front if it wants to keep things quiet until elections. Steven Cook has a great post explaining all of this here, but an actual poster in Egypt like Ham will probably have their own unique insights.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 18:43

Enigmatic Troll: Nov 28, 2006; I'm gonna be there! I got to see!

I've been lurking this thread for a while. I've also bookmarked Caro's poo poo out of morbid fascination and I'll be damned if he hasn't finally put up some interesting videos over the last day or so of him in Libya.

http://www.youtube.com/user/orac22#p/u/32/IXMVYIrkP-8

Disclaimer: I work psych so probably I feel some empathy with him - kind of like when one of my patients has caused chaos and destruction during an acute manic phase but still manages to produce some art work worth more than my yearly salary.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 18:45

pylb: Sep 22, 2010; ^{"The superfluous, a very necessary thing"}

Quick summary of french aerial and naval strikes in Libya this past week :
- about 50 military vehicles (tanks, armored vehicles, trucks) destroyed around Zliten, Syrte, Misratah and Brega
- about 20 buildings (command posts, communications, checkpoints) destroyed around Zliten and Brega
- about 10 artillery elements destroyed around Tripoli, Zliten and Brega.

They also replaced the Gu�pratte and Jean de Vienne frigates by the Georges Leygues.

Looking back a month at their previous reports, the numbers seemed to ramp up slowly
6/2 -6/9 : 106 ground attack sorties, 30 buildings, 40 vehicles
6/9 -6/16: 115 ground attack sorties, 20 buildings, 40 vehicles
6/16-6/23: 122 ground attack sorties, 20 buildings, 40 vehicles
6/23-6/30: 132 ground attack sorties, 30 buildings, 60 vehicles, 10 artillery

# ? Jul 7, 2011 19:53

Sivias: Dec 12, 2006; I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.

For those interested, Al Jazeera English has an article about the Yemen president's speech, as well as a before/after picture of him. Yikes. He sort of looks like the lady from There's Something About Mary

http://aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2011/07/201177143420256530.html

# ? Jul 7, 2011 21:09

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

He looks like he spent about 30 hours too long in the sun.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 21:20

dj_clawson: Jan 12, 2004; We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.

Why is his khaffiah tied up like a flying nun's crown? Is he planning on further dashing escapes?

# ? Jul 7, 2011 21:39

Ham: Apr 30, 2009; You're BALD!

Just been to Tahrir square, it's 11 PM and the mood was pretty jovial, probably about 4000-5000 people packed in already. No soldiers or officers in sight, the military is stepping out of tomorrow's demonstrations. I'll be participating, will take pictures if I can.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 22:11

Sivias: Dec 12, 2006; I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.

Hey Ham! Good to see you're doing well still. Are the demonstrations for a specific reason, or is it just general upset with how the military are performing?

# ? Jul 7, 2011 22:23

Ham: Apr 30, 2009; You're BALD!

Sivias posted:

Hey Ham! Good to see you're doing well still. Are the demonstrations for a specific reason, or is it just general upset with how the military are performing?

Not so much upset as it is egging them on really. It's basically an amalgamation of many different ideas/perspectives into one big demonstration, in the end the common points are going to boil down to: Immediate and public trial of Mubarak and his allies, faster trials for police officers and corrupt officials, better police presence, real progress towards democracy, removing government appointed university staff and former NDP governors etc. A couple important but not universally agreed upon points are delaying elections and writing the constitution first, and there's some minor points such as civilian marriage (called for by Egyptian copts who can't get a divorce unless it's sanctioned by the church) and an idiotic idea to set a maximum wage.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 22:30

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

Ham posted:

delaying elections and writing the constitution first

Wouldn't this go against the results of the previous referendum? Have people changed their mind?

# ? Jul 7, 2011 22:59

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

Enigmatic Troll posted:

I've been lurking this thread for a while. I've also bookmarked Caro's poo poo out of morbid fascination and I'll be damned if he hasn't finally put up some interesting videos over the last day or so of him in Libya.

http://www.youtube.com/user/orac22#p/u/32/IXMVYIrkP-8

Disclaimer: I work psych so probably I feel some empathy with him - kind of like when one of my patients has caused chaos and destruction during an acute manic phase but still manages to produce some art work worth more than my yearly salary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXMVYIrkP-8&feature=channel_video_title
is quite funny. Especially him going on about CIA poo poo with her guide.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 23:05

big fat retard: Nov 11, 2003; I AM AN IDIOT WITH A COMPULSIVE NEED TO TROLL EVERY THREAD I SEE!!!! PAY NO ATTENTION TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY!!!

I will donate to whoever runs against Kucinich, even if it's a crazy Tea Party candidate. As an American citizen, it's the most I can do for the Syrian people.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 23:17

Ham: Apr 30, 2009; You're BALD!

Jut posted:

Wouldn't this go against the results of the previous referendum? Have people changed their mind?

It would go against it yes, and people haven't changed their minds. Remember that 23% voted No

It's just that those people still hold the same view. Of course it's also understandable that the military goes with the majority of voters.

# ? Jul 7, 2011 23:18

CoderCat: May 7, 2005; Science, it works.

Syria

quote:

U.S. ambassador in Hama to support Syria protesters

(Reuters) - The U.S. ambassador to Syria traveled to the restive city of Hama on Thursday to show solidarity with protesters concerned that Syrian security forces ringing the city could stage a new crackdown.

The U.S. State Department said Ambassador Robert Ford met with at least 12 Hama residents on his trip, and hoped to stay in the city through Friday when more protests are planned.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 03:15

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

AFP ran that story about Ford going to Hama with an ending sentence to the effect of "A senior US official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the ambassador was there to make contact with the opposition." While I'm sure that's the case and think Ford meeting the opposition is a good thing, I'm not so sure that leaking it was smart. The Syrian state media has been running with the narrative that the protests are the work of foreign conspirators (hilariously blaming Salafists, Lebanon, Turkey and the US to some degree.) Now, it's out there that a high-level representative of the US government has met with the people the Assad regime has been calling "armed gangs."

While this may not seem like much, recognize that the situation in Syria is pretty opaque, and I don't even think that most Syrians (at least not those in Damascus, Aleppo and other major cities) have a full account of the size and scope of the protest movement. It's not inconceivable that there's some segment of the Syrian population that may buy into the regime's propaganda and deny the opposition their support.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 03:28

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

I guess he's not going to be in Syria for much longer, even after all that work to get him confirmed.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 03:34

automatic: Nov 3, 2010; by Y Kant Ozma Post

I think whatever we can do to bring attention to the issues is Syria is something we should be working on. It's not like most people there see Syria as a puppet of the US- the US showing solidarity with the masses will do more good than harm.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 03:51

Tiny: Oct 26, 2003; My leg hurts....

Am I correct in understanding that Hama is essentially a freshly independent city that is now surrounded by a ring of tanks and security forces?

If that's the case, an American (or any western power) ambassador going to say hi seems awesome. I can only hope that he's daring security forces to mow down unarmed protesters in front of him and his entourage. If he himself is injured... Welp, gonna get real interesting real fast.

They can't be stupid enough to crack down with foreign diplomats in the line of fire, can they?

Even if it's just a press stunt, it gets Syria's current situation in front of the press, and I'm all for it.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 04:42

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Tiny posted:

Am I correct in understanding that Hama is essentially a freshly independent city that is now surrounded by a ring of tanks and security forces?

If that's the case, an American (or any western power) ambassador going to say hi seems awesome. I can only hope that he's daring security forces to mow down unarmed protesters in front of him and his entourage. If he himself is injured... Welp, gonna get real interesting real fast.

They can't be stupid enough to crack down with foreign diplomats in the line of fire, can they?

Even if it's just a press stunt, it gets Syria's current situation in front of the press, and I'm all for it.

Ambassador visiting town in de facto rebellion against the regime is a bit more than a press stunt. I wonder if this relates at all to Kucinich's recent visiting.

After the Syrian press's report that Kuchinich had said, amoung other things, that Assad was highly loved, the Press Release from Kuchinich's office was a thing of beauty.

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=249254
Best line

quote:

Arab-speaking friends accompanying me have explained that the problem may have come from a mistranslation as well as the degree of appreciation and affection their state-sponsored media has for President Assad.

Drowning in a sea of euphemism.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 04:52

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Live Blogs July 8th
Guardian
Feb17.info
AJE Libya
AJE Egypt
AJE Yemen
AJE Syria
AJE Freedom Flotilla

NATO Update

quote:

Sorties conducted 07 JULY: 134
Key Hits 07 JULY:
In the vicinity of Brega: 1 Military Refuelling Equipment.
In the vicinity of Gharyan: 3 Armed Vehicles.
In the vicinity of Waddan: 1 Military Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Surt: 1 Tank.
In the vicinity of Zlitan: 1 Artillery Piece, 1 Radar.
In the vicinity of Tripoli: 3 Anti-Aircraft Gun, 1 Command and Control Center.

There's not been much actual news from the frontlines over the past 24 hours, just rumours of various places being captured, nothing confirmed yet. Here's a couple of article to tide things over:

quote:

Captured Gaddafi soldiers, including foreign fighters, tell of low morale
Beleaguered by NATO�s bombing campaign, low morale and desertions, the Libyan army is relying heavily on fighters from sub-Saharan Africa as Moammar Gaddafi�s government struggles to beat back rebels forces east and west of the capital, captured fighters said in interviews.

Two Libyan army officers and three sub-Saharan African fighters captured by rebels after a recent battle in the country�s western mountains said Thursday that Libyan troops deployed in the area are running low on ammunition and fuel.

Military leaders, they said, are depending on the foreign fighters because many Libyan soldiers are conflicted about fighting their countrymen and have lost faith in the country�s longtime ruler. In interviews conducted separately at the rebel-run jail in Ziltan, the detainees said that as many as half the forces deployed by the Gaddafi regime to the front lines come from countries such as Niger and Mali.

The detainees� accounts provide rare insight into the role foreign fighters are playing in Libya, as well as the fraying military strength of Gaddafi�s increasingly isolated government.

Gaddafi�s aides have denied that the government is using foreign fighters and have said the country�s troops remain strong and motivated. But the leader�s son, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, acknowledged in a recent interview that the Libyan military�s fighting strength is far from ideal.

�One of our biggest mistakes was that we delayed buying weapons, especially from Russia, and delayed building a strong army,� the younger Gaddafi told Russia Today, an English-language news network, last week.

Jamil, a Libyan military officer detained Wednesday after rebels captured the city of al-Qualish, said the foreign fighters were pushed to the tip of the front line as rebels began pounding the city with rockets, tank shells and anti-aircraft missiles fired horizontally.

�They shoot without hesi�ta�tion,� he said, sitting in the library of a school that rebels are using as a detention center.

Jamil and his men were cowered in fortified positions until the heavy weapons stopped battering the town, he said. When rebels streamed into the town on foot and cars, he considered whether to run back or surrender.

�I held my hands and surrendered,� said Jamil, who asked to be identified only by his first name for fear of reprisals against his relatives. �We want to stop this killing and we don�t have enough ammunition.�

He said Libyan soldiers in Gaddafi�s military don�t want to fight their countrymen. �A Libyan sniper can�t shoot a Libyan,� he said. �This job is for a non�Libyan.�

Gaddafi has relied for years on non�Libyans to shore up his armed forces, and analysts say he has intentionally kept his military weak, fearing that a strong, conventional armed force could stage a coup.

While the Libyan soldiers characterized their sub-Saharan comrades as fearless fighters who follow orders without hesitation, the three foreign fighters captured Wednesday said many of them were coerced to take up arms.

Issa Munir, 22, from Mali, said he moved to the southern Libyan city of Sehba a year ago to work at a farm. Last month, he said, he was among a large group of sub-Saharan African laborers who were taken into custody and moved to Tripoli. In the capital, government officials offered him Libyan citizenship in exchange for taking up arms for Gaddafi, he said.

�I couldn�t refuse,� said Munir, who was wearing olive green pants and a stained white V-neck T-shirt. �Most of us have the same story: We were brought by force.�

The other two non-Libyan men, both from Niger, said they lost low-paying jobs after the fighting started and joined the force willingly when officials promised them good salaries.

Ibrahim Saleh Youssef, 26, said he had been working as a cleaner for a Brazilian company in the south. �I didn�t have money to eat,� the lanky man said, speaking barely above a whisper. �I didn�t even have enough to buy cigarettes.�

After surviving a terrifying barrage of artillery and shelling in al-Qualish on Wednesday, he said he raised his hands in surrender as the rebels stormed in. �I didn�t want to kill any Libyans,� he said. �I wouldn�t want to hurt anyone.�

The men�s accounts could not be independently confirmed. Rebel jailers told the detainees they were free to speak to two reporters who arrived at the jail unannounced, but gave them the option to decline. Rebel leaders say they intend to hold the men indefinitely, but might consider a prisoner swap arranged by the Red Cross.

Another Libyan military officer, Abu Jelah Dau Afra, 38, said the armed forces still have soldiers committed to defending Gaddafi. �Some of them love him deeply,� he said. �Others are just afraid.�

NATO�s bombing campaign has significantly weakened Gaddafi�s military hardware, Afra said. But, he added, the alliance�s bombs do not appear to have killed many soldiers because they usually run away from tanks and other large weapons as soon as they hear fighter planes approaching.

Libya, which has vast oil reserves and a small population, has long been a magnet for laborers from poorer African countries.

A 27-year Libyan military veteran who was captured by rebels in the western mountains in April said fellow officers have long resented Gaddafi�s reliance on foreign fighters.

�Gaddafi has done this because he knew a dark day was coming,� said the man, who is also being held in the Ziltan jail and declined to give his name, citing fears about the safety of his relatives.

The Libyan government Thursday claimed that it is the rebels who are importing fighters.

Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaim told the Associated Press in Tripoli that the government has evidence that the rebels in the east are fighting alongside Colombian mercenaries paid by the United Arab Emirates and Western allies. He said the government would present evidence to support the claim.

quote:

Nato strikes at Libya�s oil in bid to oust Gaddafi

Nato forces have attacked Libya�s oil facilities for the first time in this conflict in an attempt to starve Muammar Gaddafi�s army of fuel, as rebels, following fierce clashes, moved to within 50 miles of the capital Tripoli.

The airstrikes on the complex at Brega, one of the countries� biggest petrochemical complexes and port for export, was designed, says Nato, to prevent regime troops from mounting attacks.

Control of Brega and the adjoining city of Ras Lanuf has changed hands several times in the course of the bitter civil war. It is now under the control of the regime, denying the opposition administration based in Benghazi a highly lucrative source of income.

The most senior British commander involved in the Libya operation, Rear Admiral Russ Harding, told The Independent: �This was not done lightly, we looked at the pattern of life on the ground, and we decided that the only ones benefiting from the fuel were the Gaddafi forces and not local people. And they were using that fuel to carry out attacks on civilians.

�There are commercial aspects to this. Brega and Ras Lanuf could provide a revenue stream for the TNC (Transitional National Council, the rebel administration). But that was not something in our consideration, the decision was taken solely to protect civilians.�

Rear Admiral Harding stressed that only the refuelling facilities were being hit and not the oil tanks. Speaking at Nato HQ in Naples, he continued: �It is not the case that this will be affecting babies in incubators at Brega hospital. If the hospital in Brega is being used, it is being done by Gaddafi forces.�

The bombing, however, could be seen as a risky strategy for Nato, which has insisted that its forces are avoiding targeting infrastructure. Oil storage terminals at Ras Lanuf were set alight during the early weeks of fighting following the February revolution, and since then there had been an attempt by all sides in the conflict to ensure that the facilities were not affected.

However, although more than 14,000 sorties since military action began had destroyed much of Muammar Gaddafi�s armour and artillery, Admiral Harding said: �We have seen them use private cars, trucks, technicals [flatbed trucks with guns mounted at the back] sometimes hundreds at a time.

�By depriving Gaddafi of fuel we are depriving him of mobility. We have seen his forces drive deep down into the desert to pick up supplies, pick up ammunition.�

Limiting fuel supplies would prevent the regime troops from carrying out attacks in the eastern front as well as moving to the west, where a rare co-ordinated attack by the rebels has brought their fighters close to Tripoli, with the most advanced in the village of Qawalish, south-east of the city and the mountain village of Kikla.

In the Libyan capital, the deputy foreign minister, Khaled Kaim, declared that Nato�s increased bombings represented the �final phase� of the air campaign, aimed clearing a path for the rebels. He insisted that the push "will fail and it is the civilians who will pay the price".

The rumour from Tripoli is that Gaddafi has ordered the mosques to be closed, and for Friday prayers to take place in Green Square, in order to fake a huge rally in his favour.

Apparently it's going to be a big day for protests in Egypt, as well as Syria and Yemen today.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jul 8, 2011

# ? Jul 8, 2011 08:30

CoderCat: May 7, 2005; Science, it works.

Tiny posted:

Am I correct in understanding that Hama is essentially a freshly independent city that is now surrounded by a ring of tanks and security forces?

If that's the case, an American (or any western power) ambassador going to say hi seems awesome. I can only hope that he's daring security forces to mow down unarmed protesters in front of him and his entourage. If he himself is injured... Welp, gonna get real interesting real fast.

They can't be stupid enough to crack down with foreign diplomats in the line of fire, can they?

Even if it's just a press stunt, it gets Syria's current situation in front of the press, and I'm all for it.

Exactly. The presence of the US ambassador will prevent or at least reduce the amount of violence against protesters, and it will give the city more visibility in the press. I see it as a good thing.

Hama is planning its largest demo yet today. Protesters have already started gathering in the main city square in thousands. I hope it will be a great day in Hama and Syria in general.

Edit:

First video from Hama today. Friday prayers will take place in the main city square and protests will follow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN-OvVRQZdk

CoderCat fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Jul 8, 2011

# ? Jul 8, 2011 11:26

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Couple of small but interesting things regarding Misrata. A BBC journalist in Misrata reported yesterday that he's been told by the rebel commanders in Misrata that NATO will be meeting with them to decide a new strategy to support the rebel advance to Zliten in the next few days, and he's now just Tweeted the Head of Military Intelligence has told him 500 special forces will be coming from Benghazi, which strongly implies there will be a very major push to Zliten and beyond very soon. He also said 170 special forces will join the southern front as well, so it might suggest a push in both directions. Maybe there will movement on the Brega front at the same time.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 11:34

fuckingtest: Mar 31, 2001; Just evolving, you know?
Right Here, Right Now.

quote:

Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaim told the Associated Press in Tripoli that the government has evidence that the rebels in the east are fighting alongside Colombian mercenaries paid by the United Arab Emirates and Western allies. He said the government would present evidence to support the claim.

This poo poo is amazing. It's almost like political fan fiction.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 13:49

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

Maybe it's just me being politically ignorant, but why would this hypothetical bunch being Colombian mercenaries be significant in any way?

# ? Jul 8, 2011 14:25

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Very interesting report from the WSJ regarding the rebels preperation for a push on Tripoli in Benghazi:

quote:

Libyan Rebels Aim for Tripoli
BENGHAZI, Libya�A convoy of fighters, military vehicles and pickup trucks equipped with heavy guns rumbled toward the port here early Thursday to board a ship taking part in what rebels say will be their first major offensive against Col. Moammar Gadhafi's regime in the capital, Tripoli.

A spokesman for the rebels in their Benghazi stronghold in the east declined to comment on the convoy, which still faces major hurdles. But a person close to the rebel leadership said it planned to join up with fellow fighters in the rebel-held western city of Misrata before heading to Tripoli.

The deployment of forces to Misrata, estimated to be in the hundreds, and further military gains in the mountains southwest of Tripoli demonstrate how the rebels have improved tactics, capabilities and coordination since their early days as a ragtag force at the start of the Libyan uprising in February. Rebels believe they would topple the regime with the capture of Tripoli, which accounts for a third of the nation's population.

The developments came as the U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday signaled frustration with President Barack Obama's Libya policies by giving broad bipartisan support to a measure to cut off funding for U.S. military operations in Libya�which it narrowly rejected�and passing another measure to block any military funding to the rebels.

Officials with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in Brussels said they were aware of the rebels' latest movements but avoided commenting on whether the alliance was coordinating the rebel advance. Their response underscores the political sensitivity of a mission that critics say has evolved from the protection of civilians to aiding the overthrow of Col. Gadhafi.

The rebels, however, face many challenges in their plans to advance on Tripoli, not least the mounting evidence that Col. Gadhafi continues to lay the groundwork for a protracted civil war.

For months, Col. Gadhafi's government has been exploiting tribal sensitivities to maintain control of towns and cities around Tripoli. He has also been concealing soldiers and weapons inside population centers to avert airstrikes by NATO planes and ensure that any effort by the rebels to seize the capital will come with heavy casualties, rebels and NATO officials said.

In Gharyan city, the largest population center in the Nafousa Mountains outside Tripoli, Col. Gadhafi's "battalions are among the families," said Abdel-Hamid al-Zintani, who helps liaise between rebels in those mountains and Benghazi. "There's nothing residents can do."

On Wednesday, rebels inched closer to Gharyan by capturing the village of al-Qawaleesh after a battle that claimed the lives of seven rebels and at least a dozen pro-Gadhafi soldiers, according to Mr. Zintani.

He said there was a limit, though, to how far the ill-equipped mountain fighters can extend themselves toward Tripoli without jeopardizing their hard-earned gains. He said the rebels are counting on Tripoli's underground resistance inside Tripoli to gather momentum.

Nightly skirmishes with government loyalists have now spread from inside Tripoli to the capital's Janzour district. On Monday, the Gadhafi regime seized a boat laden with Belgian-made rifles that was being smuggled to rebels in Janzour, the government and rebels said.

The government is also employing psychological warfare by naming alleged rebel sympathizers on state TV recently and making grim threats of retribution for smuggling weapons into the capital.

"You must think a thousand times before you take any step," said Col. Salem Joha, one of the rare professional soldiers among Misrata's rebels.

On the road to Tripoli, the complex challenges facing the rebels are evident in Misrata, about 130 miles east of the capital.

After weeks of attempts to capture the neighboring town of Zlitin off the highway to Tripoli, Misrata's rebels tried again on Tuesday but were pushed back a day later to their defense lines in the farmland area of Dafniya on Misrata's outskirts, said rebel leaders.

In what has become a war of attrition, more than 165 rebel fighters have been killed and 700 wounded in Misrata since June 1, mostly from rocket and mortar fire from Gadhafi forces, say hospital records. Men in their 20s with no military experience fill the casualty ranks.

During the same period, at least seven other people were killed in rocket attacks targeting residential neighborhoods inside Misrata, including a 12-year-old girl and her aunt on Wednesday, according to doctors.

On a recent afternoon mortar rounds and rockets crashed into the fields and olive groves of Dafniya, kicking up smoke and dust into the cloudless summer sky. Rebels reciprocated.

A teenage rebel fighter seated behind an anti-aircraft gun in the back of a pickup truck fired in the direction of the advancing government soldiers.

A warning came on the two-way radio that a group of government soldiers, less than a mile away, were advancing on foot toward rebel positions. The voice of a government soldier cut into the rebels' radio signal with a stream of obscenities.

It was a typical day of fighting in Dafniya.

"We are not used to fighting in this place," said Ahmed al-Shawesh, a rebel field commander.

Previously he led rebels on Misrata's Tripoli Street, scene of the fiercest street battles inside the city before pro-Gadhafi forces were driven to the outskirts in mid-May.

Mr. Shawesh said rebels have the upper hand inside their city but are no match for government forces in open areas. He said rebels do not have the heavy weapons, ammunition and communications equipment needed for a sustained offensive.

"We do not even know the exact nature of the enemy," he said.

Adding to his frustration are the restrictions that he said are imposed on his fighters by NATO and the rebel leaderships both in Benghazi and Misrata.

Some rebels say this is to minimize casualties and give a chance to diplomatic efforts aimed at convincing Col. Gadhafi to leave power.

Rebel leaders make cryptic references to a "zero hour" and "imminent victory" even as their frustration with the NATO campaign rises.

Fathi Bash-Agha, a member of the Misrata military council and a NATO coordinator, complained that the alliance's rules of engagement are too restrictive, allowing Col. Gadhafi to position his troops and weapons next to mosques, schools and homes.

NATO officials say there has been no request for a change in the rules of engagement but echo rebel concerns that the pro-Gadhafi forces use human shields and protect themselves by shelling from mosques.

Complicating the rebels' advance on Tripoli is the fact that the Zlitin area closest to Misrata, Souq al-Thulatha'a, is inhabited by the staunchly pro-regime Fawateer tribe. Col. Gadhafi also has dispatched to the area civilian fighters along with women and children from other pro-regime tribes like Tarhouna and Warshafana, insuring that any bloodshed would fuel a tribal feud, according to rebels.

The situation remains precarious inside Zlitin, where the Gadhafi regime compelled families to agree to a truce and pledge of allegiance after clashes there in June killed 19 rebels and 22 government soldiers, according to Abdel-Raouf al-Sari, who commands a few hundred Zlitin rebels trying to wage the fight from Misrata.

But Mr. Sari, a civil engineer, said this has not discouraged them. They have received fresh arms shipments from Benghazi and set up their own field hospital and radio station to appeal to their fellow residents to rise up against the regime.

"We are 180,000, if they kill 80,000 but 100,000 live with dignity, then that's good," said Mr. Sari, referring to Zlitin's population.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 14:34

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

I wrote an article for an alternate news magazine/website in 2004 about how Kucinich and supporters (mostly the latter) were Pretty drat Dumb, all told. It was accepted but never published because the operation went bust.

I only mention that because he's finally outed himself as the giant damned hypocrite on the international stage that I always suspected he was but never really bothered to try and prove to myself because he's Dennis Kucinich and already kind of a walking joke.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 14:51

Fintilgin: Sep 29, 2004; Fintilgin sweeps!

Pureauthor posted:

Maybe it's just me being politically ignorant, but why would this hypothetical bunch being Colombian mercenaries be significant in any way?

The only thing I can think of is that it supports the loony ' drugged nescafe' narrative they were pushing.

I.e. Colombians = drugs?

# ? Jul 8, 2011 15:12

CoderCat: May 7, 2005; Science, it works.

The US ambassador in Hama earlier today. Protesters walked around his car and put roses on it while chanting "The people want to bring down the regime"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNIk_bRweH4

# ? Jul 8, 2011 15:17

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

Pureauthor posted:

Maybe it's just me being politically ignorant, but why would this hypothetical bunch being Colombian mercenaries be significant in any way?

I think PMCs like Blackwater and Triple Canopy recruited ex-military types (ex-SOF, etc) from Colombia and El Salvador. There's probably enough unemployed soldiers who are willing to fight for the highest bidder, not to mention Xe (nee Blackwater) is also headquartered in the UAE these days.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 15:33

Chortles: Dec 29, 2008

Pureauthor posted:

Maybe it's just me being politically ignorant, but why would this hypothetical bunch being Colombian mercenaries be significant in any way?

Actually, it's because the Erik Prince-linked Reflex Responses (R2) is accused of building up a "battalion" of foreign troops on behalf of the UAE government, which according to the New York Times had been staffed with Columbians.

quote:

The force is intended to conduct special operations missions inside and outside the country, defend oil pipelines and skyscrapers from terrorist attacks and put down internal revolts, the documents show. Such troops could be deployed if the Emirates faced unrest in their crowded labor camps or were challenged by pro-democracy protests like those sweeping the Arab world this year.

The U.A.E.�s rulers, viewing their own military as inadequate, also hope that the troops could blunt the regional aggression of Iran, the country�s biggest foe, the former employees said. The training camp, located on a sprawling Emirati base called Zayed Military City, is hidden behind concrete walls laced with barbed wire. Photographs show rows of identical yellow temporary buildings, used for barracks and mess halls, and a motor pool, which houses Humvees and fuel trucks. The Colombians, along with South African and other foreign troops, are trained by retired American soldiers and veterans of the German and British special operations units and the French Foreign Legion, according to the former employees and American officials.

The article does suggest though that this outfit (at least as of the writing) was of... questionable effectiveness, with "basic operational issues" not having been addressed (i.e. rules of engagement, what if civilians were killed during an operation) and the recruits having been... less military-ready than advertised or expected.

Seeing as the article's latter third mainly focused on a Columbian recruit and his fellow nationals, I wouldn't be surprised if the Gaddafi deputy FM was just cribbing notes from that article.

He's not completely making poo poo up, but it's an oddly specific accusation that has a plausibility problem -- why the hell would the UAE government deploy that force outside of the UAE? -- and thus fishy in light of the Gaddafi regime's existing credibility problems.

Chortles fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jul 8, 2011

# ? Jul 8, 2011 16:28

zetamind2000: Nov 6, 2007; ~~I'm an alien.~~

Pureauthor posted:

Maybe it's just me being politically ignorant, but why would this hypothetical bunch being Colombian mercenaries be significant in any way?

Trying to pander to Hugo Chavez and Venezuela?

# ? Jul 8, 2011 16:54

Nckdictator: Sep 8, 2006; Just..someone

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

I wrote an article for an alternate news magazine/website in 2004 about how Kucinich and supporters (mostly the latter) were Pretty drat Dumb, all told. It was accepted but never published because the operation went bust.

I only mention that because he's finally outed himself as the giant damned hypocrite on the international stage that I always suspected he was but never really bothered to try and prove to myself because he's Dennis Kucinich and already kind of a walking joke.

Not to derail or cause a argument but I'm pretty curious to see the article if you still have it, mind posting it?

# ? Jul 8, 2011 17:04

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

The BBC reporter in Misrata has just tweeted a couple of pictures front a machine gun post that last week was the rebel frontline in Zliten, but is now 6km behind the frontlines, confirming there's been a significant advance in the last week. Hopefully the reinforcements from Benghazi will mean Zliten is liberated very soon.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 17:06

Lustful Man Hugs: Jul 18, 2010

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

I wrote an article for an alternate news magazine/website in 2004 about how Kucinich and supporters (mostly the latter) were Pretty drat Dumb, all told. It was accepted but never published because the operation went bust.

I only mention that because he's finally outed himself as the giant damned hypocrite on the international stage that I always suspected he was but never really bothered to try and prove to myself because he's Dennis Kucinich and already kind of a walking joke.

Dumb perhaps, but a hypocrite? Wouldn't he only be a hypocrite if he supported the War in Afghanistan and/or Iraq?

# ? Jul 8, 2011 20:11

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 14:32

Cable Guy: Jul 18, 2005; I don't expect any trouble, but we'll be handing these out later...; Slippery Tilde

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

...I always suspected he was but never really bothered to try and prove to myself because he's Dennis Kucinich and already kind of a walking joke.

Spot the funny-man

Cable Guy fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jul 9, 2011

# ? Jul 9, 2011 04:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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