|
Lascivious Sloth posted:Younes Relations between the secular parties and the Islamists in revolutionary Iran were strong too, and that lasted about two weeks or so after the fall of the Shah. If that. If there's any validity to what he's saying, he's essentially signing his own death warrant-radical factions like that do not share power, with anyone.
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 02:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 16:35 |
|
|
Plastic_Gargoyle posted:If there's any validity to what he's saying, he's essentially signing his own death warrant-radical factions like that do not share power, with anyone. Whoa.. hold on there. No one said they are radical Islamists or follow religious fundamentalism except the Gaddafi regime. He is from a leading Islamist group, and in North Africa/Middle-East that does not insinuate fundamentalism or extremism. quote:Relations between the secular parties and the Islamists in revolutionary Iran were strong too, and that lasted about two weeks or so after the fall of the Shah. If that. Comparing the Libyan revolution to the Iranian revolution and assuming all Middle-East/North African situations are the same is ridiculous, biggoted and exactly what Saif is doing to stir up hostilities. Not to mention we already established there is no evidence to suggest they are "radical" Islamists. Laughable as all that is, there is also the fact that Libya is dominated by Sunnis and Iran is Shia majority. It's as bad as saying that because a group of Catholics in Italy revolted against their regime and installed a autocratic dictatorship 40 years ago, a group of Protistant rebels in England will do the same... because they are all christians.. and white.. and from Europe. Just think about how bigoted and implicitly racist that is. Lascivious Sloth fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Aug 5, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 02:54
|
|
|
Still nothing from the UN but at least the lip-service of disapproval has been made by someone. ---- US: Al-Assad has lost legitimacy to rule US says it is working on gathering up a big international support for strong actions against the Syrian regime. Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, has said that Washington believes President Bashar al-Assad's government was responsible for more than 2,000 deaths in the crackdowns, repeating that Washington believes that Assad has "lost his legitimacy to govern the Syrian people.". Clinton told reporters on Thursday that moves such as the UN Security Council statement on Wednesday condemning Syrian government violence, as well as further international sanctions, could turn the screws. "We are working around the clock to try to gather up as much international support for strong actions against the Syrian regime as possible. I come from the school that actions speak louder than words". Clinton said it was time for the international community to match its rhetorical outrage "with actions that will send a very clear message to the Assad regime, the insiders there, that there's a price to pay for this kind of abuse and attacks on their own people." More sanctions Meanwhile, the United States extended sanctions against Syria to include a prominent Syrian businessman and member of parliament who it says is a front for the interests of President Bashar al-Assad and his brother. The move by the US Treasury on Thursday marks the fourth round of US sanctions against Syria aimed at pressuring Assad's government to ease its bloody crackdown against unarmed protesters. The Treasury said it added Muhammad Hamsho and his holding company, the Hamsho International Group, to its sanctions list, which bans US transactions with them and seeks to freeze any assets they may have under US jurisdiction. It said Hamsho has close ties to the Assads and has acted as a front for Mahir al-Assad's business interests. Previous rounds of US sanctions have targeted the Syrian president and his brother Mahir al-Assad, other top government officials and the security forces. European Union ambassadors meeting in Brussels on Thursday also agreed to add more names to their Syria sanctions list, but EU officials said they stopped short of targeting the country's oil industry and banking sector. Dissidents say that would be the only way to effectively choke off funds fueling repression in Syria. The extent of new sanctions would depend on recommendations from the EU delegation in Damascus and EU states, the EU officials added. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/08/20118502942420596.html
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 06:00
|
|
|
Every comment on CNN's website coverage on Syria seems to implicate Israel in this uprising for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 07:25
|
|
|
Tapatio posted:Every comment on CNN's website coverage on Syria seems to implicate Israel in this uprising for some reason. Syria is known to have hired several PR firms. Wouldn't surprise me if some of them are creating fake comments on various news websites.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 09:31
|
|
|
According to Al Jazeera, Khamis Gaddafi has been killed by NATO http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/08/20118575531382740.html Great news if it's true, considering he leads and commands one of the most feared brigades in Libya Hefty Leftist fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Aug 5, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 10:17
|
|
|
Lascivious Sloth posted:France To make up for the CDG's departure, two Atlantique 2 and a detachment of Mirage 2000N and 2000D were deployed at La Sude, five Rafales are at Sigonella, the E3F and C135 will take off from Avord and Istres and there are still three frigates, a nuclear sub, one tanker and the BPC and its 20 helos at sea. Last week the french forces conducted 60% of NATO's ground attacks, neutralizing around 80 targets. The frigates also fired on ground targets.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 10:40
|
|
|
ThePutty posted:According to Al Jazeera, Khamis Gaddafi has been killed by NATO Given the source I would be very skeptical at this stage. Edit: I'm actually getting pissed off at papers reporting unverified stories. 'Rebels say...' is just not good enough. The BBC are at it today as well but with a 'CQ says'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14413157 posted:Zlitan: Gaddafi forces say they control key Libyan town Jut fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Aug 5, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 11:12
|
|
|
Now, if Khamis was present, forget if he's dead or not, but if he was present, this means that Ziltan is where the elite troops are. Brega's probably a hollow shell with a shitload of mines. How many elite troops can there be?
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 14:19
|
|
|
Tapatio posted:Every comment on CNN's website coverage on Syria seems to implicate Israel in this uprising for some reason. CNN did something amazing, once thought impossible, when they added comments - they found commenters worse than YouTube's. pylb posted:Last week the french forces conducted 60% of NATO's ground attacks, neutralizing around 80 targets. The frigates also fired on ground targets. France is absolutely loving the opportunity to be geopolitically relevant.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 14:30
|
|
|
Golbez posted:CNN did something amazing, once thought impossible, when they added comments - they found commenters worse than YouTube's. Yes. I know it is filthy and disgusting and bad for my mental health, but I find posting in CNN comments irresistible. The best ones are Chinese commentators.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 14:37
|
|
|
Has anyone heard anything about the protests in Israel? The only news I've found on them are Israeli newspapers and this: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=7129
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 17:00
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:Syria is known to have hired several PR firms. Wouldn't surprise me if some of them are creating fake comments on various news websites. Which is how they managed to get that Vogue profile of Asma al-Assad. I wonder/hope this mass exposing of PR companies working with Syria and Libya will lead them to stop working with dictators, but it seems really unlikely. There's a long history if companies like Burson Marsteller working with scumbags, being exposed and apologizing, and then doing it again in a few years. These countries just have so much money to toss around and it's not technically illegal.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 19:23
|
|
|
Warcabbit posted:Now, if Khamis was present, forget if he's dead or not, but if he was present, this means that Ziltan is where the elite troops are. Brega's probably a hollow shell with a shitload of mines. That depends on how many the Germans trained.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 19:40
|
|
|
Benagain posted:Has anyone heard anything about the protests in Israel? The only news I've found on them are Israeli newspapers and this: http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=7129 Populist, non-violent protests seeking to lower housing and cottage cheese prices are not, in comparison to the rest of the Middle East, news. Especially wwhen the government response is, "How long can I ignore you before it hurts my chances in the next election?" Some news organizations have tried to make it about the settlers, because one of the concerns of the general population is that the coalition government is beholden to special interest groups like the settlers and the Haredim (who don't work or serve in the army) and keeps showering them with money while the costs of living for normal Israelis increases. But for the most part it is about that - an increase in costs of living, particularly in the areas of housing and cottage cheese. During that flotilla crisis a couple weeks back the Israeli newspaper headlines were all about the price of cheese. Internally, all Palestinian issues aside, Israel is a fairly stable democracy and its economy has done well during the worldwide downturn because it isn't part of the European crisis and it has a huge growth industry in tecehnology. But people always have issues, and special interest groups taking tons of government money because Netanyahu needed them to form a government is an issue.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2011 20:44
|
|
|
Lascivious Sloth posted:Whoa.. hold on there. No one said they are radical Islamists or follow religious fundamentalism except the Gaddafi regime. He is from a leading Islamist group, and in North Africa/Middle-East that does not insinuate fundamentalism or extremism. You've misunderstood the intent of my post. I only referred to the Iranian revolution because it's the closest example I could recall of a previously "unified" movement being taken over by one side. It had nothing to do with the fact that "they're all ay-rabs." Don't assume that people who oppose you are automatically ignorant republicans. Second, I wasn't aware that the groups he was talking to were not radical Islamists; that's not a word I tend to associate with anything other than al-Qaeda style-movements, similar to the context that "fundamentalist" has in the American south.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2011 02:22
|
|
|
Anybody with an hour to spare should watch this. http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/2011/08/201184144547798162.html With every inch of my body I hope protests can start again, and I hope that they can succeed. Does anybody know what's happening in Bahrain? I'm genuinely worried about the quiet. Hefty Leftist fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Aug 6, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2011 02:57
|
|
|
Concerned Citizen posted:Syria is known to have hired several PR firms. Wouldn't surprise me if some of them are creating fake comments on various news websites. Israel has been doing the same thing for longer...
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2011 05:49
|
|
|
Speaking of Israel, interesting sign at a protest in Tel Aviv today. According to twitter, there's getting to be more talk of Palestine in the protests in Israel as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2011 23:41
|
|
|
For the non-Arabic speakers out there, "ارحل" (irhal) means "Get out," and it's been very common on signs throughout the Arab Spring. That's sort of awesome to see it in Israel.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 03:57
|
|
|
Chade Johnson posted:Israel has been doing the same thing for longer... Yeah, Israeli supporters even has specialized software to direct people toward websites with polls they can stuff with votes, or articles to fill with pro-Israel comments.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 04:40
|
|
|
Kenning posted:For the non-Arabic speakers out there, "ارحل" (irhal) means "Get out," We need an irhal frog. VVV Excellent. Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Aug 7, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 07:39
|
|
|
Wafflecopper posted:We need an irhal frog. I'd made this for the old Egypt thread: 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 08:12
|
|
|
On the topic of the events in israel, *edit* woop scratch that, morning papers are out and reporting this*edit*, but generally the perspective on the arab internet-twittersphere is "Racist Terrorist colonizers are complaining about prices of land and housing they stole." On Twitter, arab youth (especially Egyptians) have hashtagged the news about the israeli protests as #thawretweladelkalb wich means "The revolution of the sons of Dogs" and includes comments such as " Come on People, this hashtag is extremely racist, think of how dogs feel!" and "these People are making a revolution, But in someone else's Country!" and " Oh please netanyahu! killing and murdering arabs has become really expensive!" and "Who do these loving racists think they are pretending to fight for freedom?!" and a retweet storm for the following twitter "Hey israeli's, when the police teargas you, put pepperspray in your eyes to remove the effects!" and another one " Hey israelis, prepare some black paintspray when police wearing visors come close to you to hit you, spray your own face with it so no-one has to see your ugly loving face" The general view is that The protest in israels attempt to somehow paint itself as part of an 'arab spring' is a joke as bad as when israelis tried to steal hummus and proclaim it as their national dish. Since most Arab youth know with all their heart that the vast majority of those israeli youth wouldn't think twice about bombing and invading another arab country or people when the chance comes. ThePutty posted:Anybody with an hour to spare should watch this. God drat. This completely wrecked my day. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Aug 7, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 08:43
|
|
|
dj_clawson posted:Internally, all Palestinian issues aside, Israel is a fairly stable democracy and its economy has done well during the worldwide downturn because it isn't part of the European crisis and it has a huge growth industry in tecehnology. But people always have issues, and special interest groups taking tons of government money because Netanyahu needed them to form a government is an issue. Yes, maybe it was that, or maybe it was the 140 billion from the US over the past thirty years. It's a nation of seven million people , they produce very little, but they have the largest economy in the world doling out whatever they want, and outright ignoring when they steal what we won't give them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 10:30
|
|
|
Xandu posted:Speaking of Israel, interesting sign at a protest in Tel Aviv today. So what does the Hebrew say? Also, let's not turn this into another loving I/P clusterfuck, please.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 11:51
|
|
|
Mr. Sunshine posted:So what does the Hebrew say? "Get out". It's already been asked and answered.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 15:59
|
|
|
Nuclear Spoon posted:"Get out". It's already been asked and answered. There's a difference between Arabic and Hebrew, in case you weren't aware.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 16:31
|
|
|
I've been away, so here's the NATO reports for the last few days:quote:Sorties conducted 03 AUGUST: 125 quote:Sorties conducted 04 AUGUST: 117 quote:Sorties conducted 05 AUGUST: 116 quote:Sorties conducted 6 AUGUST: 115 The strikes in Brega on August 5th were massive as well, a very large number of vehicles and building destroyed, let's hope it actually achieves something. Warcabbit posted:Now, if Khamis was present, forget if he's dead or not, but if he was present, this means that Ziltan is where the elite troops are. Brega's probably a hollow shell with a shitload of mines. The Elite Khamis Brigade is certaintly based in Zliten, and were fighting in Misrata until it was liberated. There's been numerous captured FN2000s that were purchased by Libya to arm the Khami's brigade, and documents were recovered in Misrata that seemed to indicate they had been fighting there. Some reports suggest that the Khamis Brigade suffered heavy loses in Misrata, and a lot of the current troops are recruits, although as ever that's impossible to verify. This is also a very interesting report: quote:Army Apaches carry out Libya strike Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Aug 7, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 17:30
|
|
|
Also, another update from Nasfusa:quote:Libyan rebels push towards Az Zawiyah This is the location of al-Qusbat and Bir al Ghanam. The Surman region is pretty large, from the Nafusa mountain to the town of Surman on the coast. If you remember back a few weeks Bir al Ghanam was a town the rebels had been trying to capture, but gave up after a couple of days of fighting, and dug in on a ridge above the town. As you can tell from the map a network of roads and farms now stand between them and Zawiya, so it'll be interesting to see if NATO back them up with their push northwards. Interesting to hear anything about al-Qusbat, it's the first time I've heard anything about something happening there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 17:44
|
|
|
Mr. Sunshine posted:So what does the Hebrew say? "Egypt is here."
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 17:49
|
|
|
Mozi posted:There's a difference between Arabic and Hebrew, in case you weren't aware. Ugh, I'm a loving idiot. Sorry.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 19:14
|
|
|
So I guess they're finally satisfied with the size of the crater at Waddan?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 19:19
|
|
|
Maybe they've just run out of the right sort of bombs to use.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 19:21
|
|
|
Nuclear Spoon posted:Ugh, I'm a loving idiot. Sorry. I was a little dickish on my part too, sorry for that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 19:36
|
|
|
Mozi posted:I was a little dickish on my part too, sorry for that. Wouldn't it be great if everyone could resolve and forgive like that? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 19:53
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfCFFs8u1DA&hd=1 Video via al-Jazeera of security forces opening fire on a funeral procession in Idlib, Syria today. Not super graphic, but you can see at least one person shot. edit: The Saudi King will also be speaking on Syria. Worth keeping an eye on this. Saudi Arabia doesn't like how close Syria is to Iran, they could see this as an opportunity to get rid of Assad. A military force a la Lebanon is probably too risky for them though, but maybe they'll guarantee Assad's safety like they did with Ben Ali. Xandu fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 7, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 21:57
|
|
|
Okay the King didn't actually speak, probably because he's almost dead, but according to his statement, Saudi Arabia demands a stop to the violence and has recalled their ambassador to Syria home for consultations. It's a pretty unusual step, but nothing concrete in the statement about future steps. Maybe Al-Saqr has a better grasp of Saudi politics, though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 22:07
|
|
|
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7687163.html Here's an article. Money quote: King Abdullah also said that Riyadh does not accept what is happening in Syria, according to the statement read out on the pan Arab Al Arabiya network late Sunday. The monarch also said the Syrian government crackdown on protesters is disproportionate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 22:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 16:35 |
|
|
Xandu posted:Okay the King didn't actually speak, probably because he's almost dead, but according to his statement, Saudi Arabia demands a stop to the violence and has recalled their ambassador to Syria home for consultations. It's a pretty unusual step, but nothing concrete in the statement about future steps. Maybe Al-Saqr has a better grasp of Saudi politics, though. There's no such thing as Saudi 'Politics', there is only the ruling family and what happens between them is little known to ordinary folks. in terms of local media press and public discussion, There will be no discussion. all will praise the king and his wisdom and courage. all will proclaim him the 'king of humanitarianism'. there will be no other opinion.Those who hold other opinions, well, good luck with the bullwhips. In terms of cold hard analysis I imagine that this is squarely aimed at syria because of it's links with Iran, the Saudi government is making GBS threads it's pants left and right about the Arab spring and are throwing their entire financial, diplomatic, media and military (like in Bahrain) muscle to stem it's flow, the key weapons they have used so far are sectarianism and money, with money they can buy influence amongst political parties, but this had limited success in egypt and Tunisia because of the lack of a sectarian component (except for obscure salafists) and the relative development and awareness of Egyptian and Tunisian political culture, in syria such sectariansim is ripe and available and the development of society that is weak and exploitable, not only can they get rid of an ally of a hated foe (Iran) they can get into the game early and fund any political parties that may evolve and push sunni identity and sectarianism, they would wield immense influence over any new government that may be formed thanks to the abuses of the present government. essentially, they might be trying to make a second lebanon but this time with sunnis forming the majority of the country. Also, these are the last people who should talk about disproportionate, a single facebook page caused them to rally the entire police force and cover the entire city and all side roads with every bit of hardware they had. if a revolution ever happened in saudi, it WILL be Gaddafi x1000, worse than what they did in bahrain. many people have disappeared so far and there is a huge media campaign against writers and intellectuals who call for greater freedom as 'agents of outside agendas' (Iran). Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Aug 7, 2011 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2011 23:31
|
|