- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Here's another video from Tawergha:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NhiYAcDwbI
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Aug 12, 2011
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Aug 12, 2011 19:49
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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May 21, 2024 14:12
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Fighting in Zliten:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USjLvrIm4uw
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Aug 12, 2011 21:51
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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An AJE report from Nafusa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0ybqNbv2Is
Another Tawergha video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo4o5dU0zvs
Andrews Simmons of AJE just Tweeted the following:
quote:Just back from Tawergha, south east of Misrata. Town has been taken after major opposition offensive. Some fighting continues.
Civilians evacuated from Tawergha under care of Red Crescent in Misrata. Large numbers.
Libyan Opposition force casualties high in capture of Tawergha. AJE report airs 2300 GMT 0100 local.
At least 9 Libyan opposition fighters dead in the 2 day old operation to take Tawergha. More than 70 injured.
Libyan opposition force push out of Misrata East front included six tanks captured earlier from GF. One destroyed.
One Libyan opposition commander injured Thurs in offensive on Tawergha shot dead Fri trying to negotiate surrender of remaining GF.
Another article about NATO arming the rebels.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Aug 13, 2011
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Aug 12, 2011 23:47
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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More on Hana Gaddafi, someone who appears to be alive even though she died in an American bombing many years ago
quote:Dental records for Hana Gaddafi reopen mystery of Libyan leader's daughter
The documents were found in the Libyan Embassy in Knightsbridge this week after rebels fighting to end Gaddafi's reign formally took possession of the "People's Bureau". They disclose a London dentist's work for the Gaddafi regime, reopening the mystery of the daughter the Libyan leader claims was killed in a US bombing raid.
The Daily Telegraph has seen the papers. They show that in 2008 Libyan officials in London arranged for the dentist, Stephen Hopson, to fly to Tripoli to treat a patient called "Hana Ghadafi".
Hana was the name of the baby daughter that Gaddafi claimed was killed in the US air strike on Tripoli in 1986. The attack is said to have led the dictator to order terrorist reprisals, including the 1988 Lockerbie bombing.
Hana Gaddafi's death has never been verified, and many Libyans believe she actually survived the 1986 attack and still lives in Tripoli.
In 2008, the Libyan ambassador, Omar Jelban, personally arranged a business class flight to Tripoli for Mr Hopson.
The dentist declined yesterday to give details of his patient or discuss his professional dealings with the regime. There is no suggestion of wrongdoing on his part, but the documents will revive speculation about the dictator's daughter.
They show the Libyan embassy arranging for Mr Hopson to visit Tripoli in April 2008. In a fax to Mr Jelban, the dentist said he would be treating a patient he identified as "Miss Hana Ghadafi".
It reads: "This is to confirm that I will be visiting Tripoli to treat Miss Hana Ghadafi this coming weekend. I will need a return plane ticket leaving the morning of Saturday 19th April and returning to London on the afternoon/evening of Sunday 20th April."
There is no agreed way of rendering Arabic names into Roman script, meaning that Western spellings of Libyan names vary.
Also on April 14 2008, the Libyan ambassador instructed a London travel company to arrange flights for Mr Hopson, at the Libyan government's expense.
Mr Jelban wrote a signed letter to Arab Tours asking them to issue the dentist with business-class British Airways tickets for the dates he requested. "Please send your invoice for settlement, with a copy of this letter, to the Libyan People's Bureau in London," he wrote.
Asked about Miss Gaddafi and the Libyan trip, Mr Hopson said he was "neither admitting or denying" anything. He said he could not give any details about his patient.
"There's an element of patient confidentiality and if you were a patient, you wouldn't want me revealing anything about any care that you had received and that's why I can make no comment about any of this" he said.
Asked if his patient was Col Gaddafi's daughter, Mr Hopson said: "It's possible perhaps there could be a second Hana Gaddafi. It's not beyond the realms of possibility."
This week, Die Welt, a German newspaper, reported that Gaddafi's daughter is alive and well and living in Tripoli.
Hana Gaddafi is thought to have been born in November 1985 and adopted by the Libyan leader shortly afterwards. Since her alleged death, a number of reports have suggested that she survived and remains close to Col Gaddafi.
In 1999, the official Chinese state news agency reported the presence of a Hana Gaddafi at a lunch her father held for Nelson Mandela.
This year, the Swiss froze assets linked to the Gaddafi family, including assets held under that name. Miss Gaddafi was reported to have lived in London as a teenager before studying medicine in Tripoli and working for the health ministry.
The embassy's files contain numerous other documents relating to trips arranged to Libya by officials, but few involved Mr Jelban directly.
A Libyan government official on Friday night claimed that Hana is a second adopted daughter taken on by Col Gaddafi after the first one was killed in the 1986 bombing.
"This not an important issue when we have children dead and Nato bombing civilians in our country," a Tripoli official said. "The Daily Telegraph should concentrate on these important issues."
And another great article by CJ Chivers, a must read
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 13, 2011
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Aug 13, 2011 00:25
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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AJE Video about the capture of Tawergha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y_wwghEN0E
Andrew Simmons with a little more from Tawergha:
quote:As reported earlier .. hundreds of civilians now in Red Crescent camp in Misrata. We witnessed no looting in 4 hours on ground. quote:In Tripoli, Gaddafi's Deputy Foreign Minister says government troops reduced rebel gains in Tawargah and pushed back
rebels all the way to Misrata.
Khaled Kaim said:
quote: "They managed to advance for 10 to 15 kms after the NATO attacked the number of checkpoints in Tawargah but finally before midnight the fighters from Ban al Waleed tribes managed to push them back to Misrata."
quote:Libyan government has accused UN chief Ban Ki-moon of playing with words after he acknowledged NATO efforts to avoid civilian casualties in a statement.
Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaaim told reporters early Saturday that Ban's statement was"unacceptable" for not singling out NATO for "being responsible for civilian deaths in Libya."
"The only party that must be blamed for the loss of civilian lives is NATO," he said
Two videos of a captured pro-rebel doctor in Tawergha:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxjH3PrChXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZMGJ4pdrN4
Latest NATO update:
quote:Sorties conducted 12 AUGUST: 118
Strike sorties conducted 12 AUGUST: 48
Key Hits 12 AUGUST:
In the Vicinity of Waddan: 1 Ammo Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Brega: 2 Armed Vehicles.
In the vicinity of Bir Al Ghanam: 5 Armed Vehicles, 2 Anti Aircraft Guns.
In the vicinity of Tripoli: 1 Surface to Surface Missile Launcher, 1 Surface to Surface Missile Facility.
In the vicinity of Misratha: 1 Military Facility, 1 Ammo Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Zlitan: 1 Military Armored Vehicle Storage Facility.
In the vicinity of Al Khums: 1 Ammo Storage Facility.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Aug 13, 2011
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Aug 13, 2011 10:50
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Another small Nafusa update from Zeina Khodr:
quote:Libya opposition fighters heading to gharyan a gaddafi stronghold; they want to cut off govt supply lines from south
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Aug 13, 2011 13:37
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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There's alot of chatter about Gharyan at the moment, various claims about the positions of the rebels being made, but there's alot of people saying they are inside Gharyan, and control parts of the city. Interestingly, this Twitter account has been Tweeting about it, and it's not one that normally posts stuff about the progress of the rebels, just general bullshit about all sorts of subjects:
quote:CONFIRMED: From my extensive family in Gheryan via phone.The largest city in the Nafusa Mtns,closest to #Tripoli has been LIBERATED
Family on the phone SCREAMING,"FF'S ARE HERE,WE ARE FREE,WE ARE FREE!!".Mosques are telling ppl via loudspeaker "stay in ur homes!"
First time we're able 2 speak candidly w/ family in #Gheryan on the phone.We used to speak in code but not nooo mooore!!
Ive been to Gheryan to visit my parents beautiful farms 3 times.They grow olives mainly but also almonds/peaches/pomegranates/grapes
Im sure my really old Grandmother in Gheryan is just irritated over all the excitement & noise XD. Gheryan hurrraaa!!
Spoke to a good friend who works w/ FF and has extensive contacts w/in command.He told me a few days ago "something big brewing for Gheryan"
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Aug 13, 2011 14:14
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- DonT15
- Oct 31, 2010
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Brown Moses posted:
There's alot of chatter about Gharyan at the moment, various claims about the positions of the rebels being made, but there's alot of people saying they are inside Gharyan, and control parts of the city. Interestingly, this Twitter account has been Tweeting about it, and it's not one that normally posts stuff about the progress of the rebels, just general bullshit about all sorts of subjects:
But with everything in Libya, it's best to wait until a reporter films the city centre before assuming it's free.
That seemed way too easy (in comparison to the rate of progress seen elsewhere). From what I've managed to keep up with here, Gharyan was relatively heavily garrisoned.
I haven't seen much posted lately here about Syria; I suppose that's because there isn't much to report. I'm worried that the situation in Syria is going to go the way of Bahrain; plenty of folks are willing to condemn Assad and his actions but there just doesn't seem to be anything standing in Assad's way. I reckon the biggest potential difference aside from the size difference between them is where the Saudis stand in relation to the two. Should we be looking at the Saudis' position as a bellweather?
Thanks again for all the updates!
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Aug 13, 2011 16:00
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Couple more updates from AJE:
quote:Libyan opposition forces have launched a two-pronged offensive in the Western mountains, increasing pressure to isolate Muammar Gaddafi's stronghold of Tripoli.
Opposition fighters advanced toward the towns of Gharyan and Az-Zawiyah on Saturday, attempting to cut off the southern coastal route from Tunisia that Gaddafi uses for supplies.
The ground attacks come after NATO planes had been hitting targets in these areas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU6iQLd1XdQ
quote:An imprisoned Libyan army colonel who surrendered to the rebel forces two months ago told AFP on Saturday that Muammar Gaddafi's regime is ridden with divisions and in the process of collapse.
Speaking from a prisoner of war camp in the rebel enclave of Misrata, Colonel Wissam Miland said Gaddafi's military hangs together through coercion and mercenary-enforced martial law, but that infighting is rife.
"I think it will soon collapse," he said, offering a rare glimpse inside Gaddafi's three-pronged loyalist force, made of up army regulars, militia fighters and mercenaries.
"Among the militias, the Libyan soldiers were starting to fight with the foreign mercenaries, there are many problems," he said in an interview.
The prospect that Gaddafi's use of foreign mercenaries may be backfiring will also offer hope that the once oil-rich regime could be running out of options.
While it has long been known that Gaddafi has used paid fighters from Chad, Niger, Mauritania and other Sahel nations, their role has not always been clear.
"Within my unit there were a lot of mercenaries," Miland said. "But they are not fighting with the army -- they surround the army. They don't let anyone fall back. If you retreat, they will kill you."
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Aug 13, 2011
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Aug 13, 2011 16:51
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Neal Mann of Sky News just Tweeted this:
quote:@fieldproducer Al Arabiya reporting that Libyan rebels claim control of the city of Zawiyah after fighting with #Gaddafi regime troops
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Aug 13, 2011 17:08
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Article on Gharyan:
quote:Libyan rebels fight for gateway town to Tripoli
Libya’s rebels on Saturday fought with regime troops for control of a key mountain town that is a strategic gateway on the road to Tripoli in an intensified western offensive aiming to push toward Moammar Gadhafi’s stronghold in the capital.
Rebels earlier claimed control of Gharyan, saying they had moved into the center of the town and that Gadhafi’s troops had withdrawn. But several hours later, regime forces returned with reinforcements and the two sides clashed, said rebel spokesman Gomma Ibrahim.
Gharyan lies at the northern end of the Nafusa Mountains, and Gadhafi’s hold on the town had been a sticking point for rebels who have taken control of most of the range. The town lies on the main road leading directly from Nafusa to Tripoli, 50 miles (80 kilometers) to the north on the Mediterranean coast.
Rebels have been trying for weeks to take Gharyan, and NATO airstrikes have hit Gadhafi’s forces several times in the area.
On Saturday morning, rebel fighters moved into the town and, alongside residents, battled for about four hours with the remaining regime forces in the town – mostly young fighters and mercenaries, said Ibrahim. The Gadhafi troops withdrew, but after a brief lull, the troops returned in intensified numbers, he said.
Ibrahim said that Gharyan residents had joined with the entering rebel fighters, in part out of anger that some 2,500 of the town’s men had been arrested in recent months for voicing opposition to Gadhafi.
The claims could not immediately be confirmed independently.
“This is the biggest stop on the way to Tripoli, where we will topple down the tyrant and liberate all Libya,” Ibrahim said.
The capture of Gharyan would solidify the rebels’ flank as they push ahead with a new offensive launched from further west in the Nafusa range, pushing down into the coastal plain where Gadhafi’s forces have been concentrated. The rebels are hoping to take several cities along the coast before moving on to Tripoli.
Rebel commander Fathi el-Ayeb said his fighters were 10 miles (15 kilometers) from Gadhafi-held Zawiya, a key target in the offensive. He said the rebels scouts who returned from Zawiya claim the local residents there were waiting for the rebels to reach the city’s outskirts to join their fight against Gadhafi.
“They are waiting for the rebels to come and they will join them,” said el-Ayeb.
Advancing a further 6 miles (10 kilometers) in the direction of Zawiya, some 300 rebel fighters reached the district of Bir Shaeb. An Associated Press reporter saw more than 100 fighters resting under a grove of trees, eating watermelon and smoking as the boom of grad rockets could be heard in the distance.
Rebel fighters Mohammed Jirmi, a 23-year-old originally from Zawiya, said that they expect the city’s residents to rise up and fight alongside the rebels when they reach the city’s outskirts. However, another fighter who identified himself as Abdel-Salam said they are moving slowly because of an ammunition shortage.
In early March, Gadhafi’s forces crushed an uprising in Zawiya, the nearest point to Tripoli to fall into rebel hands, in a punishing assault on the city. A group of rebels managed to flee to the Nafusa Mountains and link up with fighters there.
Dozens of Libyan families have been taking advantage of the fighting to flee Tripoli and head south into the mountains.
The families were making their way through desert back roads that appeared to be less guarded amid the fighting between rebels and Gadhafi’s forces near Bir Ghanam, 50 miles (80 kilometers) southwest of Tripoli.
The rebels said they registered 55 families that fled Tripoli in the past three days for the Nafusa mountains. Many were originally from the west but had escaped to Tripoli when the fighting broke out in the mountains months ago.
One of those on the road, Sassi Ahmed, a 47-year-old social studies teacher, said he left Tripoli with his wife and six children because the situation in the capital was “very dangerous and frightening,” with no gas or electricity.
Ahmed told The Associated Press the family piled up their belongings onto their car and sneaked out of the city in a convoy with at least five other families.
Another man, who would not give his name because he feared for relatives still in Tripoli, said Gadhafi’s troops first turned him back from one road but he managed to find another way, traveling with his wife and two daughters.
Libya’s revolt began in February, with the rebels quickly wresting control of much of the eastern half of the country, as well as pockets in the west. The conflict later settled into a stalemate with the rebels failing to budge the front lines in the east since April.
The assault from Nafusa is an attempt to try to circumvent the deadlock.
At the main front in the east, rebels fighting Gadhafi’s forces claimed they captured part of a strategic oil terminal city of Brega that has repeatedly changed hands in the 6-month-old civil war.
The Benghazi-based rebels’ military spokesman, Col. Ahmed Bani, said that rebel fighters are clashing with Gadhafi forces to take control over the rest of the city. “Very soon all Brega will be liberated,” he said.
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Aug 13, 2011 17:18
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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More from Zeina Khodr
quote:libya opposition fighters advancing towards Zawiyah we were at their front line position some 20 km from the coastal city
libya opposition fighters advancing northeast to Azaziyah and south to Gariyan; they want to cut off Gaddafi's supply route from the south
fierce battles throughout Saturday between Gaddafi forces and rebels on fronts near Zawiyah and Azaziya; at least 2 rebels killed
families continue to arrive in rebel held areas in the west from Tripoli; more routes are now open following rebel advance in area
quote:heavy fighting between gaddafi forces and rebels on the outskirts of #Zawiyah
quote:@SkyNewsBreak: Reuters: Main coastal highway in western Libya blocked, gunfire heard in city of Zawiyah”
Here's the BBC video report from Tawergha.
[edit]This is significant, from a Sky News journo:
quote:Moussa Ibrahim admits there is fighting in #Zawiyah, but downplays it. @SkyNews sources report heavy fighting inside town.
quote:If Moussa Ibrahim admits fighting in #Zawiya then must be serious. When I was in Tripoli & 1st uprising was on he'd barely admit anything
Having seen what #Gaddafi lot did to #Zawiyah in first fight, have to say these rebels got more balls than anyone i saw fighting in east.
quote:Martin Veal, Reuters TV producer traveling on coastal highway to Tunisia, unable to pass Zawiyah reporting gunfire audible in town
quote:CNN cameraman reports clashes in zawiya, west of tripoli.
There's also alot of journalists on Twitter from various organisations who seems to be taking the claims fairly seriously.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Aug 13, 2011
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Aug 13, 2011 17:52
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Good update from AP, I'll see if I can figure out where the bridge is:
quote:Heavy clashes as Libyan rebels enter Zawiya
BIR SHAEB, Libya (AP) — Heavy clashes have erupted in Zawiya west of the Libyan capital as rebels try to enter the strategic coastal city held by Moammar Gadhafi's forces.
A rebel force of about 200 fighters has reached a bridge on the southwestern outskirts of the city, which is located around 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli. Some rebels pushed farther into the city center Saturday.
An AP reporter traveling with the rebels saw hundreds of resident rush into the streets, greeting rebels with chants of "Allahu Akbar," or "God is great."
Gadhafi's forces then counterattacked, and heavy shelling and gunfire could be heard as rebels and government troops battled.
Zawiya is a strategic city because it lies along the main supply line for Gadhafi's stronghold of Tripoli.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
BIR SHAEB, Libya (AP) — Libya's rebels on Saturday fought with regime troops for control of a key mountain town that is a strategic gateway on the road to Tripoli in an intensified western offensive aiming to push toward Moammar Gadhafi's stronghold in the capital.
Rebels earlier claimed control of Gharyan, saying they had moved into the center of the town and that Gadhafi's troops had withdrawn. But several hours later, regime forces returned with reinforcements and the two sides clashed, said rebel spokesman Gomma Ibrahim.
Gharyan lies at the northern end of the Nafusa Mountains, and Gadhafi's hold on the town had been a sticking point for rebels who have taken control of most of the range. The town lies on the main road leading directly from Nafusa to Tripoli, 50 miles (80 kilometers) to the north on the Mediterranean coast.
Rebels have been trying for weeks to take Gharyan, and NATO airstrikes have hit Gadhafi's forces several times in the area.
On Saturday morning, rebel fighters moved into the town and, alongside residents, battled for about four hours with the remaining regime forces in the town — mostly young fighters and mercenaries, said Ibrahim. The Gadhafi troops withdrew, but after a brief lull, the troops returned in intensified numbers, he said.
Ibrahim said that Gharyan residents had joined with the entering rebel fighters, in part out of anger that some 2,500 of the town's men had been arrested in recent months for voicing opposition to Gadhafi.
The claims could not immediately be confirmed independently.
"This is the biggest stop on the way to Tripoli, where we will topple down the tyrant and liberate all Libya," Ibrahim said.
The capture of Gharyan would solidify the rebels' flank as they push ahead with a new offensive launched from further west in the Nafusa range, pushing down into the coastal plain where Gadhafi's forces have been concentrated. The rebels are hoping to take several cities along the coast before moving on to Tripoli.
Rebel commander Fathi el-Ayeb said his fighters were 10 miles (15 kilometers) from Gadhafi-held Zawiya, a key target in the offensive. He said the rebels scouts who returned from Zawiya claim the local residents there were waiting for the rebels to reach the city's outskirts to join their fight against Gadhafi.
"They are waiting for the rebels to come and they will join them," said el-Ayeb.
Advancing a further 6 miles (10 kilometers) in the direction of Zawiya, some 300 rebel fighters reached the district of Bir Shaeb. An Associated Press reporter saw more than 100 fighters resting under a grove of trees, eating watermelon and smoking as the boom of grad rockets could be heard in the distance.
Rebel fighters Mohammed Jirmi, a 23-year-old originally from Zawiya, said that they expect the city's residents to rise up and fight alongside the rebels when they reach the city's outskirts. However, another fighter who identified himself as Abdel-Salam said they are moving slowly because of an ammunition shortage.
In early March, Gadhafi's forces crushed an uprising in Zawiya, the nearest point to Tripoli to fall into rebel hands, in a punishing assault on the city. A group of rebels managed to flee to the Nafusa Mountains and link up with fighters there.
Dozens of Libyan families have been taking advantage of the fighting to flee Tripoli and head south into the mountains.
The families were making their way through desert back roads that appeared to be less guarded amid the fighting between rebels and Gadhafi's forces near Bir Ghanam, 50 miles (80 kilometers) southwest of Tripoli.
The rebels said they registered 55 families that fled Tripoli in the past three days for the Nafusa mountains. Many were originally from the west but had escaped to Tripoli when the fighting broke out in the mountains months ago.
One of those on the road, Sassi Ahmed, a 47-year-old social studies teacher, said he left Tripoli with his wife and six children because the situation in the capital was "very dangerous and frightening," with no gas or electricity.
Ahmed told The Associated Press the family piled up their belongings onto their car and sneaked out of the city in a convoy with at least five other families.
Another man, who would not give his name because he feared for relatives still in Tripoli, said Gadhafi's troops first turned him back from one road but he managed to find another way, traveling with his wife and two daughters.
Libya's revolt began in February, with the rebels quickly wresting control of much of the eastern half of the country, as well as pockets in the west. The conflict later settled into a stalemate with the rebels failing to budge the front lines in the east since April.
The assault from Nafusa is an attempt to try to circumvent the deadlock.
At the main front in the east, rebels fighting Gadhafi's forces claimed they captured part of a strategic oil terminal city of Brega that has repeatedly changed hands in the 6-month-old civil war.
The Benghazi-based rebels' military spokesman, Col. Ahmed Bani, said that rebel fighters are clashing with Gadhafi forces to take control over the rest of the city. "Very soon all Brega will be liberated," he said.
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Aug 13, 2011 18:34
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Euronews report on the rebels progress:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsjTDtEPovc
Another video from Tawergha, apparently including captured vehicles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jplhVUu2hZs
Couple of interesting tweets from Ian Woods of Sky News. He arrived at the Tunisian border 4 hours ago, expecting to travel to the Rixos to start reporting:
quote:Back at the Tunisian border. Gun battle around Al Zawiyah forced us to turn back. Much panic among government troops at rebel advance
All 3 of us on media bus are all okay. Government troops confiscated camera which had been filming the scenes of panic. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 13, 2011
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Aug 13, 2011 18:59
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- farraday
- Jan 10, 2007
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Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.
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Some really aggressive advances. Could have a large impact on the stability of the regime if it's army is seen internally as being suddenly on the verge of collapse. Relevant historical comparison to the northern campaigns in the final stage of the Chinese civil war with the rapid collapse of the south after the heavy losses in the GMD armies.
I don't think Qadaffi can just sit in Tripoli and wait, he pretty much has to knock them back at Zawiya.
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Aug 13, 2011 20:22
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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farraday posted:
Some really aggressive advances. Could have a large impact on the stability of the regime if it's army is seen internally as being suddenly on the verge of collapse. Relevant historical comparison to the northern campaigns in the final stage of the Chinese civil war with the rapid collapse of the south after the heavy losses in the GMD armies.
I don't think Qadaffi can just sit in Tripoli and wait, he pretty much has to knock them back at Zawiya.
It seems confirmed that the rebels are at the very least on the edges of Zawiyah, although what is considered the edge of Zawiyah varies by about 10km, so it's hard to be sure exactly where they are. The fact the Sky reporter was turned away suggests the coastal road isn't secure, and that enters Zawiyah from the southwest, so that may confirm the rebels are there. He just did this report on Sky:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_E_9y1_Mfs
There's also this article from the BBC:
quote:Libya conflict: Zawiya claims denied by Moussa Ibrahim
There have been serious clashes around Zawiya in western Libya, with the government denying rebels had captured the key coastal town.
It is 30km (22 miles) to the capital's west on the strategic road to Tunisia.
The rebels hope to capture Zawiya to essentially cut the capital off from the outside world, correspondents say.
A "small group of rebels" had been repelled by government forces as they tried to move into the town, said government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim.
Around 50 rebels had begun fighting inside the town, but they they were being rounded up, he added.
Last week, hundreds of rebels pushed out of the Nafusa Mountains in the west, down towards the towns of the coastal plain in an offensive aimed at ending months of deadlock.
Military success in the west of the country is crucial to the rebels' chances of defeating Col Muammar Gaddafi's government, which has prevented the rebels advancing from their stronghold around Benghazi in the east.
'Overjoyed residents'
Reports said some 200 rebels came under heavy shelling as they approached Zawiya on Saturday, with a group advancing as far as the town's main square despite coming under sniper-fire from rooftops.
An AP reporter travelling with the rebels said they were greeted by hundreds of overjoyed residents, and that they replaced the green flag of Col Gaddafi's regime hanging from a mosque minaret with two rebel flags.
The town is key for both the rebels and pro-Gaddafi forces, says the BBC's Matthew Price in Tripoli: the rebels need to take it before they can advance on the capital, and it is crucial to the Libyan regime as it lies on the lifeline to Tunisia.
If the government forces lose control of it, the capital is cut off, adds our correspondent.
Hundreds of people have been killed since the uprising against Col Gaddafi's authoritarian rule began in February.
Since March, Nato planes have been enforcing a UN-backed no-fly zone to defend civilians, with near-daily air strikes targeting army units and command-and-control centres.
Something else I noticed from an AP article about the advance:
quote:But during this week's advance in the west, rebels were more cautious. On a main highway headed to Zawiya, rebels set up a rear position at a key intersection by erecting an earthen wall across the road, manned by a tank, to fall back to if necessary. That was a contrast to past battles in the east, where fighters would charge ahead in furious advances, then retreat pell-mell when hit by Gadhafi's artillery and rockets. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Aug 13, 2011
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Aug 13, 2011 21:03
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Just spotted this on Change In Libya's twitter, not sure if it's true because I can't watch AJA and understand what anyone is saying:
quote:BREAKING: ALJAZEERA'S REPORTER Abduladim Muhammad is IN ZAWIYA only 200metres from MARTYR SQUARE. Says FF control 75% of city NOW
quote:AJA reporter: #Gaddafi forces have pulled back to Northeast quote:Aljazeera Arabic Live from Alzawiyah - "Freedom fighters say that they will be in control by Fajr/Dawn, inshallah" quote:Aljazeera Arabic Live from Alzawiyah - "Freedom fighters continue to pour into Alzawiyah" Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Aug 13, 2011
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Aug 13, 2011 21:22
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Video of rebels troops heading into Zawayah today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTKQ9Zvtr38
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Aug 13, 2011 21:56
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- Zappatista
- Oct 28, 2008
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WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.
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What became of the TNC demand that all rebels recognize them as their leadership? Haven't heard anything of it since General Younes was murdered...it struck me as a potential seizure of power a la ayatollahs or Bolsheviks
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Aug 13, 2011 22:05
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- farraday
- Jan 10, 2007
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Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.
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It looks like Tunisia is hitting Al Zawia with a right hook.
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Aug 13, 2011 22:25
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Looking at that map it makes me wonder if after Zawiyah is captured the rebels will try to send a force to capture Tarhuna and cut off Tripoi. If they secure Tarhuna they can then attack Al Khums and encircle Zliten.
Reports from Twitter suggests even the rebel commanders are amazed at how quickly the Gaddafi troops retreated, and that Gaddafi reinforcements were attacked by NATO.
Pity the poor Sky News reporter who was forced to return to the Tunisian-Libyan border, there's claims the Gaddafi troops there surrendered, and now everyone is bugging him to go back to the border to check it out, I think he was planning to get a good nights rest in Tunisia.
The AP article I posted early has had more added to it:
quote:A group of about 200 exuberant rebel fighters, advancing from the south, reached a bridge on Zawiya's southwestern outskirts, and some rebels pushed farther into the city's central main square. They tore down the green flag of Gadhafi's regime from a mosque minaret and put up two rebel flags. An Associated Press reporter traveling with the rebels saw hundreds of residents rush into the streets, greeting the fighters with chants of "God is great."
Gadhafi's forces then counterattacked, unleashing rounds of heavy shelling and gunfire could be heard as rebels and government troops battled.
Regime snipers were firing down from rooftops on the rebels, said one resident, Abdel-Basset Abu Riyak, who joined to fight alongside the rebels when they entered the city. He said Gadhafi's forces were holed up in several pockets in the city and that there were reports of reinforcements coming from Tripoli, though there was no sign of them yet. He said NATO airstrikes had hit Libyan military positions near the city the night before.
Rebel spokesman Gomaa Ibrahim claimed that the opposition's fighters controlled most of Zawiya by nightfall. "What remains are few pockets (of Gadhafi forces) in the city," he said. "The road is now open all the way from the western mountains to Zawiya, we can send them supply and reinforcement anytime."
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Aug 13, 2011 22:55
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- Young Freud
- Nov 26, 2006
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What's happening in Msalata? I haven't even heard of that place being mentioned, but according to that map, there's some rebel activity there.
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Aug 13, 2011 23:00
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- farraday
- Jan 10, 2007
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Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.
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Brown Moses posted:
Looking at that map it makes me wonder if after Zawiyah is captured the rebels will try to send a force to capture Tarhuna and cut off Tripoi. If they secure Tarhuna they can then attack Al Khums and encircle Zliten.
Reports from Twitter suggests even the rebel commanders are amazed at how quickly the Gaddafi troops retreated, and that Gaddafi reinforcements were attacked by NATO.
Pity the poor Sky News reporter who was forced to return to the Tunisian-Libyan border, there's claims the Gaddafi troops there surrendered, and now everyone is bugging him to go back to the border to check it out, I think he was planning to get a good nights rest in Tunisia.
If something interesting is happening I don't pity reporters who lose sleep to cover it. I'd expect more surrenders in the area though, especially since there were some massive early rebellions in the region that got temped down, but I doubt they cleared out all anti-Gadaffi sentiment. A rapid defeat seems like just the sort of thing to give new impetus to revolt in the cut off regions while simultaneously crashing morale among loyalist troops.
I would not be surprised if it also had an impact on the holding action at Zliten, but it is hard t say with any certainty what will happen next.
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Aug 13, 2011 23:03
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Young Freud posted:
What's happening in Msalata? I haven't even heard of that place being mentioned, but according to that map, there's some rebel activity there.
Is Al Qusbat, there were reports that the town had rebelled, and was surrounded by Gaddafi forces several days ago, but nothing since then:
quote:Elsewhere in the west, residents of al-Qusbat, a small town 100km from Tripoli, were said to be under siege.
A representative from al-Qusbat's rebel military committee told the AFP news agency that the town was surrounded by Gaddafi's forces and fears were growing of an imminent bloodbath."All roads going to al-Qusbat are blocked by Gaddafi's forces. They cut electricity and communications since yesterday," Khamis Nuri el-Kasseh said from Benghazi after contacting the town by satellite phone.
"Gaddafi's forces are not yet in control of the town, but we expect it will be bloody today," he said, adding there had already been a series of arrests in suburbs.
Al-Qusbat is cut off from other rebel positions in the west of Libya, with 70km separating it from the nearest positions at Zlitan to the east.
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Aug 13, 2011 23:04
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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More from Zeina Khodr of AJE from the western front:
quote:
Libya rebels in control of 70 percent of #Zawiyah ... Gaddafi forces in northeast
Libya rebels clearing areas under their control in zawiyah
Libya opposition says their fighters almost in control of gharyan in the south of tripoli
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Aug 14, 2011 00:26
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- Zappatista
- Oct 28, 2008
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WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.
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We'd been hearing stories about how rebellion was brewing just under the surface in large parts of Tripoli...it'll be interesting to see if things start kicking off there again once Zawiyah is officially in rebel hands.
I'm actually looking forward to another poorly-shot tape of Moammar gesticulating irationally and blaming drugs and a vast foreign conspiracy.
e: looks like that scumbag Khamis Ghadaffi has been confirmed alive. His death or capture, when it happens, will be long overdue
I know it's been full of speculations the whole time, but Twitter accounts are reporting protesters out in Tripoli neighbourhoods
Zappatista fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Aug 14, 2011
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Aug 14, 2011 02:48
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- BeefThief
- Aug 8, 2007
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Any more background on this? And any idea what the documents are, specifically the sheet very briefly visible at 1:12 in part 2? The heading looks fairly propagandistic/ominous.
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Aug 14, 2011 05:30
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- Nuclear Spoon
- Aug 18, 2010
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I want to cry out
but I don’t scream and I don’t shout
And I feel so proud
to be alive
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The rebels now have control of Zawiyah centre. Ace. If it's taken that quickly, I'm guessing Gadaffi is either super weak, or has withdrawn all his forces to Tripoli. Or both.
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Aug 14, 2011 09:06
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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This is a disaster for Gaddafi, he lost a major city, his last refinery, and his last route to the outside world, and all in less than 24 hours. So much for days of bloody street fighting, they just ran away. Thats not to say the rebels have 100% control, there's still fighting in the city, but I don't think the rebels are going to give up easily now they are in there.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Aug 14, 2011
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Aug 14, 2011 09:55
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- Lascivious Sloth
- Apr 26, 2008
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by sebmojo
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This is great news. The rebels have really upped the pace. It appears they are much more organised and are strategising directly with NATO. I can only imagine what the battle for Tripoli is going to be like.
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Aug 14, 2011 11:35
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- Warcabbit
- Apr 26, 2008
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Wedge Regret
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When did the rebels get Brega refinery? Or is it just unusable?
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Aug 14, 2011 12:38
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Oops, forgot about that one.
[edit]Although Brega doesn't refine petrol I think.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Aug 14, 2011
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Aug 14, 2011 12:58
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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AP video about Zawiyah:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXQllt3tuwM
Pictures of rebels near Zawiyah
Tweets of a live report by AJA from Zawiyah from 30 minutes ago:
quote:The southern end of Zawiya is completely under freedom fighter control. Fights are ongoing in the northern end. Gaddafi forces are in the Northeastern part of Zawiya on the way to Tripoli and in the western part near the oil refinery. There is a very large urban war going on in Zawiya with house-to-house battles between freedom fighters and Gaddafi forces.
SORMAN AND SABRATHA have also been entered by the freedom fighters to ease pressure on Zawiya & distract Gaddafi forces.
We have been many injured freedom fighters and some martyrs go past us today and getting treated
Hundreds of fighters are pouring into Zawiya frm Nafusa including some very heavy equipment from tanks to artillery.
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Aug 14, 2011 13:53
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- Ireland Sucks
- May 16, 2004
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I'd imagine things get better for the rebels with house to house battles as rockets and artillery won't really help the regime with that.
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Aug 14, 2011 14:00
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- Zudgemud
- Mar 1, 2009
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Grimey Drawer
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Lascivious Sloth posted:
This is great news. The rebels have really upped the pace. It appears they are much more organised and are strategising directly with NATO. I can only imagine what the battle for Tripoli is going to be like.
Too bloody 
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Aug 14, 2011 14:23
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- DropsySufferer
- Nov 9, 2008
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Impractical practicality
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Finally, this is getting close, it's been a deadlock for months. Absolutely fantastic job on this thread, Brown Moses.
What I'm wondering is what happens after the rebels (hopefully) take Zawiyah. It puts them within only 30 miles from Tripoli.
What happens when the rebels finally get to Tripoli? Will there be massive resistance from Gaddafi loyalists? Is there is going to be a mass rebellion as the locals promised? A mass rebellion from the general population would let the rebels take the city quickly. I'm hoping it goes that way.
Let's hope this ends soon.
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Aug 14, 2011 14:49
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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May 21, 2024 14:12
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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There's alot of stuff going around Twitter at the moment, making various claims, so I'm just posting stuff that's coming from journalists in the area.. Here's Zeina Khodr's Tweets from the last 10 minutes:
quote:there are still pockets of gaddafi forces fighting back in #Zawiya
Gaddafi forces firing mortars at southern entrance of #zawiyah where the #press was gathered
#Gaddafi forces lauding counter offensive using heavy weapons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FElcx8qIb_4
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Aug 14, 2011
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Aug 14, 2011 15:37
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Aug 12, 2011 19:49
