|
Ganjamon, like the others have said, when on an 'underpowered' bike, passing others on the brakes is sometimes the only way. when i had my 250 i got really comfortable braking late, and braking hard. passing is restricted to only in the straights in the morning, but in the afternoon passing rules open up to allow passing in turns, on the outside with a 6ft gap between you and the rider you are passing. i've noticed that the majority of riders are good about being passed. sorry i missed ya on saturday, at the next trackday come find me, and if you're in the novice group (or intermediate) maybe we can go over some stuff  and yea, turn 1 is scary again now that i'm on a 600. no way i'm ready to dive into that going 150. i'll leave that to the expert racers!
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 04:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 14:45 |
|
|
I'd just add you need to check the passing rules. Many organisers don't want "braking contests". Obviously this is an issue when R1 dude is caning it past you on the straights and then braking at 250 meters. It can also be an issue where slower riders are braking for no reason where you are on full throttle. A UK example admittedly, but through Surtees going towards McLaren at brands indy there's no reason to brake on most bikes, but if you have a no passing on the brakes rule and the dude in front has no clue, you can get yourself shouted at / thrown out for simply riding the right line. In those situations you have to rely on getting the drive and timing it right so you can pass before the guy in front is out of the corner and fully on the throttle. I have found that different organisers seem to attract different kinds of riders, so if you're getting dicked around with, trying a different outfit can help.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 10:46
|
|
|
GanjamonII posted:So just to get it straight in my head, if I was to pass someone on the brakes I would intentionally go inside them to shoot through into the corner ahead of them? Or should I be trying to go around the outside so that they don't turn into me if I misjudge their turn in point/they turn in early. The inside is the best place to be, especially if they are significantly slower than you. Like Z3n mentioned depending on the speed differential you'll likely be by them before they even think about tipping into the corner. Here's a pretty good illustration of what we've been talking about (and I love whoring vids of my terrible riding out). I'm riding what's easily the "slowest" bike on track... Watch about the first 10 seconds of this vid: http://www.youtube.com/user/needknees#p/u/10/L6bP-0khz_A I'm on a VERY inside line to give the people I'm passing a wide berth and not spook them. I still over-braked (and missed my apex  ) but you can see how far back the other riders got on the binders. This is very common, and why it's usually pretty easy to get around novice group riders.It's great the riders in your org are cool with getting passed. I've run into a few absolute pricks that hate to accept someone on a slower bike can ride around them. They'll then come back with risky, unsafe passes just to "prove" something to themselves. Always remember - if there's a rider or group of people you're having trouble getting around or staying in front of you can always pull through the hot pits. By the time you make a stop and go they'll be halfway around the track, and chances are you won't see them again for the rest of the session. Takes a little swallowing of pride but it's more responsible and safer for everyone if someone steps up and makes that decision.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2011 15:41
|
|
|
Thanks everyone for the suggestions on passing on the brakes. I think I was over thinking it again, it seems like its a bit more straight forward than I'd thought. I will see how I go this weekend. This track is less high-speed, tighter etc so I think its better suited to the SV as well. Veritas I will come by talk to you on sunday on passing (and other stuff) for sure!
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2011 23:45
|
|
|
GanjamonII posted:Thanks everyone for the suggestions on passing on the brakes. I think I was over thinking it again, it seems like its a bit more straight forward than I'd thought. I will see how I go this weekend. This track is less high-speed, tighter etc so I think its better suited to the SV as well. GSS grew on me. when i had the 250, doing the lightweight group felt like race practice (no rules). stupid fun all around. now that i have the 600, i feel like GSS has a lot to offer those willing to learn, i have racer friends that won't go to GSS since its not one of the tracks we race. while it might not be the biggest or fastest track, it's still technical and quick enough. good place to pick new up stuff, and brush up on some others. like one of the supa fast guys told me once, 'the people that don't wanna ride GSS, don't wanna learn to go fast'. i'd like to take a day and do Alonzo's and Brandon's race school, pretty sure anyone can learn from those guys.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 00:29
|
|
|
I really like GSS based on the one time Ive been out there too.. Actually i felt like that track broke me of any hesitation to lean the bike way over. I learned a LOT more than on the previous track days I'd done (TWS MSRH) On the first instructor led lap I was thinking I may as well go home because thats as fast as I could take those corners. By the end of the day though I was much more comfortable and having a great time. Ever since then riding on the street just hasn't been the same.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2011 00:46
|
|
|
The friend I went to taste of racing with found another photographer's work, so I thought I'd post it up. We also had a dude crash during the run, now I know why. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 03:04
|
|
|
yes i know, watermarked =P from this past saturday at Texas World Speedway. gixxa race bike! 
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 04:06
|
|
|
watermark redemption post.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2011 04:13
|
|
|
oil changed, tires getting mounted in a few. dunlop GPA's (takeoffs).
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2011 02:20
|
|
|
track track track. see ya tomorrow ganjamon, come find me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2011 01:21
|
|
|
Veritas posted:track track track. Will do Bike prepped, u-haul trailer picked up, lots of bottled water in the cooler waiting for ice. excited!
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2011 01:24
|
|
|
I don't know if this is useful to anyone, but I found my paper copy of NAVEDTRA 14014. Chapter 5 "Aircraft Hardware" has a how-to safety wire bit. I downloaded a copy from here and it's the same thing. Starts on page 15.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2011 02:55
|
|
|
Had a great time despite the heat! Grandsport Speedway is a fun track, although I prefer it the counter clockwise direction when it seems to flow better for me. Thanks Veritas for the help, that video really showed me how to work on my BP. I went out for the last session directly after that and worked on keeping lower to the bike and it made a noticeable difference. I ended up taking the turns faster with the bike stood up higher and not dragging my feet or pegs. I understand now how its meant to feel when you're leaning off the bike like that - everything just works better when you're low on the tank. I found it helps me to concentrate not on only dropping my inside elbow but also anchoring my outside arm on the tank and getting chest down low enough to touch the tank too. Definitely know what to practice next time.. Also I find it interesting that while I read twist of the wrist and watched the video a few times, now when I think about the things he talks about in it they make a lot more sense since I've gotten a much better frame of reference after making some of the mistakes and riding at a fast enough pace where the stuff actually matters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2011 15:44
|
|
|
great to meet ya ganja! you did well yesterday. video time! ganjamon @ GSS 8/28/11 http://www.youtube.com/user/armandito250#p/a/u/0/nuIwk5y5Glg
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2011 00:09
|
|
|
Veritas posted:great to meet ya ganja! you did well yesterday. Thanks dude! Good to meet you you! I was watching that and I know the person in the second half of the video as well, I'll forward the link to her too. Her body position looks better than mine I'm still tired from that day .. so is my wife and she wasn't riding. The heat really takes it out of you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2011 15:36
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:I don't know if this is useful to anyone, but I found my paper copy of NAVEDTRA 14014. Chapter 5 "Aircraft Hardware" has a how-to safety wire bit. It's drat useful to me since I'm about to undertake this this week. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2011 18:29
|
|
|
another vid. me waiting for a friend, and showing him some lines. some excitement @ 7:53. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLhN5Blxs&feature=player_embedded
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2011 06:08
|
|
|
Some video from day 2 (running clockwise) at ORP on the SV. Starting to get comfortable on it. Getting more consistent. Still lots of room for improvement but if you've seen any of my previous videos here, the difference is huge. PSSR didn't allow any inside passing, not even on the brakes, so all passes had to be outside only, so you can watch me learn how to do that. I have a ton of video and pictures, which I'll sort through and post the gems from later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_y8FWpQrF0
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2011 17:54
|
|
|
Here's a video going the other direction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QudC-gGbC9A
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2011 04:10
|
|
|
Texas (& Houston) track addicts, trackday at MSRH this saturday. looking at you ganjamon!
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2011 23:22
|
|
|
Veritas posted:Texas (& Houston) track addicts, trackday at MSRH this saturday. looking at you ganjamon! I am working most of the weekend  I am going to try get some corner working credit in october and hopefully get one more day in this year. Have fun!
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2011 00:06
|
|
|
Post the supermoto'est track face you got
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2011 03:47
|
|
|
 
GanjamonII fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Sep 9, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2011 19:18
|
|
|
texas world?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 00:24
|
|
|
Veritas posted:texas world? Yup the weekend before GSS. I can look at that second photo now and pick out the faults in my BP a lot easier after going to GSS and seeing the video.. Also just general track related but I've been working on hip flexibility and strength mostly just for track riding. It takes a lot more flexibility than I'd thought to be comfortable hanging off - at GSS I was cramping so bad at the end.. I understand why some of the guys were hanging their outside foot off the peg..
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 00:38
|
|
|
about body position. the more i learn, the more i think that body position isn't as important as a good line. it helps, but knowing the race line and how to navigate it around the track helps more. and also, BP differs from person to person. look at 'twisted' tony elias, and stoner. anyways, i'll be at msrh tomorrow if you wanna come hang and say hi
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 02:31
|
|
|
As long as you're comfortable on the bike, BP means very, very, very little. The fastest guy I know has some of the most crossed up BP I've ever seen: Despite that he literally wins 95% of the races he enters. Podiums 100% of the races he enters. He has an AMA license but sticks to club racing 'cause of family. Whereas I can ride like this and be slow as molasses:  I think Z3n said it best (in fact, I think it was even in this thread) when he said that BP is one of the most visible aspects of your riding, yet one of the least important. Get yourself set so you're comfortable on the bike and don't bother with BP anymore. Focus on your lines, turn-in points, braking points, apex points, et cetera.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 02:58
|
|
|
-Inu- posted:As long as you're comfortable on the bike, BP means very, very, very little. The fastest guy I know has some of the most crossed up BP I've ever seen: Note that he's at a much higher level of lean, despite his body position making him look less "aggressive". GanjamonII posted:Yup the weekend before GSS. I can look at that second photo now and pick out the faults in my BP a lot easier after going to GSS and seeing the video.. I like the wheelie there in your first picture! Must be a first gear corner  Flexibility, the ability to transfer from side to side using your legs without weighting the bars is far more important than hanging off with GP replica form. You can't go fast when you're uncomfortable on the bike, and the first thing that people should do with any motorcycle, track or street, is adjust the levers, sweep on the bars, length of bars (if you have woodcraft or other aftermarket clipons), and the pegs if possible. I've even had situations where I've modified the seat to get an ideal peg to seat ratio, and once I get more experienced with shaping metal, I'll be making gas tanks that fit me better. Ergos are so very important on any motorcycle, and so many people completely ignore them or make fashion modifications without thinking the repercussions or making sure they fit right for them. Veritas posted:about body position. the more i learn, the more i think that body position isn't as important as a good line. it helps, but knowing the race line and how to navigate it around the track helps more. and also, BP differs from person to person. look at 'twisted' tony elias, and stoner. Yup. If you think about it, the most that BP will do is get you an additional few degrees of lean at the limit. If you're not consistently, regularly hitting that limit, then your BP is basically irrelevant. Wearing yourself out, weighting the bars while trying to hang off harder, and not being fully focused on the really important things like lines, apexes, braking markers, throttle markers, etc, will cause you to lose far more time than you could gain from the potential lean you're probably not even using because you're not focusing on the things that give you the consistency to use higher levels of lean without crashing. People think that the solution to dragging hard parts is in BP, but it's actually in line choice, committing to turn in, and throttle application. If you hang off too far, you also end up losing the feedback that you get through the seat, especially if you're riding on a superbike tailsection. BP is the most overanalysed and useless part of riding a motorcycle fast. One rear end cheek off the bike is all you really need. Head in line with the gas tank or to the inside, and you're good to go.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:24
|
|
|
Yeah I've read the same thing (in this thread too) but the reason I'm looking at that is because I feel like I really noticed a difference when I made an effort to get lower and 'better form'. Eg I stopped dragging my toes/pegs as much and felt like I was able to go faster and keep the bike upright more. I'm still new to this though so I will take the advice and next track day (whenever that may be..) I'll definitely be focused more on line and turning in quicker etc..
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:25
|
|
|
GanjamonII posted:Yeah I've read the same thing (in this thread too) but the reason I'm looking at that is because I feel like I really noticed a difference when I made an effort to get lower and 'better form'. Eg I stopped dragging my toes/pegs as much and felt like I was able to go faster and keep the bike upright more. I obviously can't see you ride, but in my experience watching people go through this, they stop dragging hard parts when they focus on hanging off because they go slower. You start focusing on hanging off, and you brake earlier, get on the gas later, and in general slow down a few % overall...just enough to get you to stop dragging hard parts. Your head is closer to the ground so you feel like you're going faster but that's just your head messing with you. Proper vision control (keeping your vision 1 to 2 steps ahead of where you are on the track) also tends to go to crap, so you feel even faster. The real solution when you're dragging hard parts on a bike (especially pegs) is generally rearsets. That goes double if you're on a streetbike that doesn't come with high pegs to start with. One of the downfalls of a stock SV650...soft suspension reduces cornering clearance, and low pegs mean after a trackday or 2 you're grinding the things all day long.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:31
|
|
|
Z3n posted:
Actually that was at I'm guessing somewhere around 80-90mph (?) on 'wheelie hill' which is a small hump on the track. Its kind of fun, but I didn't realise I'd gotten the front off the ground until I saw the photo and saw light under the tire..
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:33
|
|
|
GanjamonII posted:Actually that was at I'm guessing somewhere around 80-90mph (?) on 'wheelie hill' which is a small hump on the track. Its kind of fun, but I didn't realise I'd gotten the front off the ground until I saw the photo and saw light under the tire.. There's a good wheelie bump at Buttonwillow too. Makes it a lot of fun to come by someone on one wheel with all 65 HP of fury going at it. Proves you're definitely on it though, which is good! Riding an SV will force you to learn where the throttle stop is and then abuse it furiously.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:39
|
|
|
Z3n posted:I obviously can't see you ride, but in my experience watching people go through this, they stop dragging hard parts when they focus on hanging off because they go slower. You start focusing on hanging off, and you brake earlier, get on the gas later, and in general slow down a few % overall...just enough to get you to stop dragging hard parts. Your head is closer to the ground so you feel like you're going faster but that's just your head messing with you. Proper vision control (keeping your vision 1 to 2 steps ahead of where you are on the track) also tends to go to crap, so you feel even faster. That could explain the speed I thought I picked up actually. It'd be interesting to check lap times back to back. yeah I've lost a toe slider and started destroying my boots now.. I do have adjustable riser plates but I want to play with them a little next time too as I think I left them too low cause I didn't want to jump to the highest setting off the bat. And actually, since people are actually reading and responding (and I am at work with not much to do right now..) I noticed that when I'm dragging knee, I am not only dragging the slider but am also literally dragging my knee on the ground too and starting to wear through the leather on my suit. Im not sure why that is happening. Comparing to Inu's photos where they are actually dragging the slider only, I'm wondering if that is something to do with the angle of my legs and is actually why I'm working on flexibility there. Or maybe I was leaning off too far in those instances?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:39
|
|
|
GanjamonII posted:That could explain the speed I thought I picked up actually. It'd be interesting to check lap times back to back. Are you dragging the leather in the front or back? Adjust your sliders on the velcro. Or are you dragging the leather below your slider? You'll also find when you jack the rearsets up higher, and you start to carry more speed, you'll drag knee less because you'll pull it back, and you'll have to move the sliders more towards the side of your knee, because you're not sticking the front of your knee into the ground but you're dragging the outside of it. Edit: Re- lap times and consistency/dragging hard parts: There are many other variables to address as well there. You could carry the same corner speed but be turning in at a slightly different point, or hanging off could slow down your steering input to put you on a better line, or it could make you turn in more aggressively due to weighting the bars harder or one of a thousand other explanations. This is why it's SO important to be consistent, so you can have a good baseline for what makes you actually go faster vs. what makes you think you're going faster. Your fastest laps will almost always be the ones where you're relaxed, in control, and don't feel like you're in over your head all the time. You relax, look up the track, get on the gas earlier, trail off the brakes later, ride with more confidence over all, and that shows in the performance on the track. Z3n fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Sep 10, 2011 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:42
|
|
|
Z3n posted:Are you dragging the leather in the front or back? Adjust your sliders on the velcro. Or are you dragging the leather below your slider? Its pretty much right on/slightly below the kneecap. I also have only been hitting the sliders on the top, not evenly across the whole thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:44
|
|
|
GanjamonII posted:Its pretty much right on/slightly below the kneecap. I also have only been hitting the sliders on the top, not evenly across the whole thing. That's the starter position for knee sliders, you're sticking your knee out straight just to get it down. Now that you're getting faster, you need to slide them more to the outside of your knee. But the best way to handle it is to look at where the slider is dragging, and then pull it off and center it properly so when you drag it you're dragging across the meat of the puck, not off the top or the bottom. Also see my edit re: body positioning, etc.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 03:47
|
|
|
Z3n posted:That's the starter position for knee sliders, you're sticking your knee out straight just to get it down. Now that you're getting faster, you need to slide them more to the outside of your knee. But the best way to handle it is to look at where the slider is dragging, and then pull it off and center it properly so when you drag it you're dragging across the meat of the puck, not off the top or the bottom. Also see my edit re: body positioning, etc. I'll readjust it next time out, it looks like it should be enough to keep the leather off the track if I move it up and out slightly. Regarding your edit on consistency - it was something I was working on at TWS which is wider and faster, and gives you plenty of time to prepare for each corner. I found it a lot harder to do at GSS where its corner after corner with fewer long breaks to readjust, and if you mess up the first corner into a series of turns it really messes up all of them. I only went off the one time though which was nice.. Man all this talk about track has me hungering for the next track day pretty bad. I wish I was going out tomorrow
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 04:09
|
|
|
thats what i told you at GSS ganja. you had good corner speed, and looked comfortable. i told you not to stress to much over BP, and just think about the line, and more importantly, have fun. you were moving at a decent pace out there. we'll ride together soon again, i'll shoot more vid. so many novices get hung up on 'being rossi', it's hard to instruct them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 05:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 14:45 |
|
|
Z3n posted:Note that he's at a much higher level of lean, despite his body position making him look less "aggressive". 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2011 06:42
|
|