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Here's a dumb one where I am fairly certain on the correct line but I have not played in a long time. Live 1/3 9-handed. ep2 limps; has about $120. I am next to act, and I have him covered. I have QQ; I raise to $13. Folds around to limper, who calls, so we're heads up. Flop comes J65r. Checks to me, I bet $20. He minraises. I loving hate minraises. So $86 in the pot, $20 to call, and he has around $65-70 behind. I haven't seen villain really do anything in a hand yet -- this is maybe my 6th hand at the table. I...
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Jul 6, 2011 05:55
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Das you're never folding for 100 when the pots 300 there. It just a cooler if he has a set/87.
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Jul 6, 2011 06:23
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DAS Super! posted:Live 1/2 game I'd call. You're getting 3-1. He's not going to have a set or 87 75% of the time.
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Jul 6, 2011 07:11
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srsly posted:Here's a dumb one where I am fairly certain on the correct line but I have not played in a long time. Just shove, he could have top pair and be getting it in, he is never pure bluffing and then continuing with the bluff on the turn so just get it in now to make sure you stack Jx before a bad card comes down on a later street. With his stacksize I doubt he would minr/fold TP so it seems like shoving is better than call/calling.
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Jul 6, 2011 08:04
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here's something I learned about live poker while I'm here at the WORLD SERIES. when you tell live HH's you gotta be descriptive as gently caress about the villain, it is so crucial and changes hand ranges an dynamics in a way that internet poker doesn't allow. examples: "an old 70 year old man wearing a veteran hat raised under the gun, 3 orbits ago he check raised on ......" "young internet kid wearing headphones and a hoodie called my cbet. he seems okay but makes betsizing mistakes...." "gamblely asian man wearing a hawaiian shirt called from the blind, he straddles a lot" "villain seems okay" don't cut it no more itt.
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Jul 6, 2011 21:15
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people turn their hands up live if you pay enough attention. phil ivey once told me that a well known pro i was playing with was bluffing if he was riffling chips a certain way with his left hand. he was right. how people look is such an important piece of the puzzle and changes the correct answer dramatically.
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Jul 10, 2011 02:54
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JCarver posted:people turn their hands up live if you pay enough attention. phil ivey once told me that a well known pro i was playing with was bluffing if he was riffling chips a certain way with his left hand. he was right. how people look is such an important piece of the puzzle and changes the correct answer dramatically. You can't keep track of everyone like this though, can you? With a table of randoms do you just pay the most attention to the most active people?
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Jul 10, 2011 05:38
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pay attn to the biggest nuisance on your left (or if nobody, then the player on your immediate left, bc so many people have "im gonna play this hand" tells) followed by the most likely donator at the table then everyone else. def hard to pay 100% attention for the whole day. this is a good reason to be chatty and keep the table friendly bc at friendly/no pressure tables people are less guarded with their emotions/reactions - look at limit games for example
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Jul 10, 2011 05:47
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1/2 NL at the Grand Sierra in Reno. UTG limps and the rest fold to me with K  J in hijack and I've got a ~$410 stack.I raise to $12, folds to SB who flats, BB flats, UTG folds. SB is an Asian-American woman who is here because her husband is playing in the tournaments and gave her some money to play cash games. She's fairly tight and usually if she raises/re-raises, she's got it. We've got a decent amount of history and at this point (Earlier on I raised JJ UTG to $10 and she re-raised to $30, I flatted and then folded to her shove for $400 on a 10  94 board and she showed QQ  ) Pot is ~$32 heading to the flop. Flop is A  Q4 .SB checks, BB checks, and I've been c-betting about 75% of the time so I lead out for $20. SB snap raises to $100 and BB folds. Hero? TheKevman fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 00:37
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Does she still have you covered?
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Jul 24, 2011 00:57
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TheKevman posted:1/2 NL at the Grand Sierra in Reno. Snap fold. If she won't continue if a spade hits the turn then there's not much implied odds to continue. You shoving here over her raise isn't going to get her to fold so you have no FE, which is a lot of the value of this hand. Not having the As on board also means there is a % of the time you're going to get stacked when another spade hits and she has the nut flush. It's a lot closer if the A is the spade and if she'll ever fold to a flop shove or if she'll keep calling you down when the spade hits the turn and she doesn't have a flush.
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Jul 24, 2011 03:01
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I talked to ZeroGuitar on AIM for a bit about this hand. I ended up shoving over the top (effective stacks pre were right around $425ish IIRC) so assuming she's never folding (which, in this instance I have no inclination to believe she does based on her play up until now) when all the money goes in there's about 860 in the pot. If I'm playing a $600 stack then I'm flatting, but this spot was tricky for me since I'm drawing to 12 outs to the (assumed) nuts. I would have absolutely preferred to see the A on the board, but yeah. Flatting here is awful, unless she makes it ~50-80ish, yea? After she called she flipped over A Q and the turn was the 10River: 5 then I slunk down in my chair 
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Jul 25, 2011 00:55
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Well that's like a straight flush
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Jul 25, 2011 13:25
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I got a "lol" on this hand from the dude I beat, could you guys take a look and see if I did anything insanely fishy, please? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com BB ($2.72) UTG ($2.41) UTG+1 ($5) MP1 ($1.60) Hero (MP2) ($13.40) CO ($5.12) Button ($13.86) SB ($5) Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4  , 3 3 folds, Hero bets $0.15, 1 fold, Button calls $0.15, 2 folds Flop: ($0.37) K , J , 5 (2 players)Hero bets $0.27, Button calls $0.27 Turn: ($0.91) 2 (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $0.43, Hero calls $0.43 River: ($1.77) 6  (2 players)Hero bets $1.26, Button calls $1.26 Total pot: $4.29 | Rake: $0.21 I realize the original 3xBB bet is nonstandard with that hand (to say the least), and I normally don't play 34o. I thought the cbet was okay, though, and re: the turn call, I figured I had hella implied odds. Obviously everything worked out great, but was I a dumbass anywhere?
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Jul 25, 2011 14:54
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Ashenai posted:I got a "lol" on this hand from the dude I beat, could you guys take a look and see if I did anything insanely fishy, please? You don't have hella implied odds; you could be drawing dead already! Even if you do make your flush (which is the smallest possible), you could lose.
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Jul 25, 2011 17:10
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discstickers posted:You don't have hella implied odds; you could be drawing dead already! Even if you do make your flush (which is the smallest possible), you could lose. Ugh, I didn't even consider that. I somehow imagined that if I hit my straight I'd be good, which is clearly not the case. Man, I need to get a lot better at figuring out my opponent's outs. Thanks for the help.
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Jul 25, 2011 17:19
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Ashenai posted:Ugh, I didn't even consider that. I somehow imagined that if I hit my straight I'd be good, which is clearly not the case. Don't open 34o from the hijack. Even without the flush on board you have no implied odds. He's not just going to stack off randomly. If he has nothing you aren't going to be getting any money on the river and if he has a pair you're 10% to win the hand meaning you will need him to call your river bet every single time you hit unless you had some bright ideas for winning the pot without the best hand. Additionally take note of his turn bet size and what that meant, less than half pot pets scream weakness to me in the vast majority of situations. The most important lesson here is to not over estimate your implied odds. It's one of the biggest mistakes newbies will make in my opinion. Hitting your draw doesn't guarantee you any more of their stack.
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Jul 25, 2011 18:40
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Bashez posted:Don't open 34o from the hijack. Even without the flush on board you have no implied odds. He's not just going to stack off randomly. If he has nothing you aren't going to be getting any money on the river and if he has a pair you're 10% to win the hand meaning you will need him to call your river bet every single time you hit unless you had some bright ideas for winning the pot without the best hand. Additionally take note of his turn bet size and what that meant, less than half pot pets scream weakness to me in the vast majority of situations. Good lesson, thanks. He mucked KQ, so yeah he had a pair and clearly only called my river bet because he put me on a bluff, which is not something I can count on. I guess I like to find excuses for staying in hands because dammit it's frustrating to lay down a drawing hand and never know whether it would have gotten there. I know that's bad poker. I'll look out for it in the future
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Jul 25, 2011 18:56
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Ashenai posted:Good lesson, thanks. He mucked KQ, so yeah he had a pair and clearly only called my river bet because he put me on a bluff, which is not something I can count on. I guess I like to find excuses for staying in hands because dammit it's frustrating to lay down a drawing hand and never know whether it would have gotten there. I know that's bad poker. I'll look out for it in the future If you fold pre, like you should've, then you avoid these mistakes on future streets. Fixing the root of your problem will help you get rid of the other mistakes as well. When you're beginning poker and are unsure about your play you should be playing especially tight pre-flop. I know you said you don't normally play 43o, but you should never play it there. Even if you were exponentially better at postflop play you still should fold that without a good reason to open.
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Jul 26, 2011 03:11
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Ashenai posted:Good lesson, thanks. He mucked KQ, so yeah he had a pair and clearly only called my river bet because he put me on a bluff, which is not something I can count on. I guess I like to find excuses for staying in hands because dammit it's frustrating to lay down a drawing hand and never know whether it would have gotten there. I know that's bad poker. I'll look out for it in the future Be careful with that thought process. This is 5nl and you are playing a casual player. He did not call you on the river because he put you on a bluff, he put himself on top pair 2nd kicker and will basically never fold something like that on the river.
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Jul 26, 2011 03:26
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I've been trying to open my game up a bit recently and had a decent read that the UTG (who is a solid reg) was opening a lot of pots since the 45/25 fish joined the table, plus we were five handed. In this pot the fish was on the button, UTG opens and I decide to 3bet with 76s from the SB. My stats at this table are something like 26/17 with 6% 3bet. I obviously cbet the AK flop as that hits a large part of my 3-bet range. I am thinking I should have double barreled here maybe? Also I think my flop bet should be smaller since this is 10NL and he'll probably fold the same range even to a smaller bet. After he called the flop I started thinking about the fact that he had been pretty solid (22/20 or so) throughout the 100 hands we'd played and that he opened from early position. I thought about check-raising the river to rep the flush or a slow played 2 pair or set but don't know if that would be a good idea at 10NL. I posted this hand on another forum as well and so far the feedback has been that as played is correct (using a smaller cbet though). Also, I didn't realize at the time but villian is only folding to 25-30% of flop cbets but has folded 4 out of 6 turn cbets. Does this difference make double barreling correct against this player because he's probably not folding out TT or similar on the flop if he's hardly folding to flop cbets in general but yet will fold these marginal hands on the turn? Or does his tight (12-16%) UTG range hit this board hard enough that he's not folding if he calls the flop? Merge - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 5 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 3 BB: $10.15 UTG: $19.39 CO: $10.40 BTN: $10.15 Hero (SB): $32.13 Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10 Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 7:spade: 6:spade: UTG raises to $0.30, fold, fold,Hero raises to $1.10, fold, UTG calls $0.80 Flop: ($2.30, 2 players) 3:heart: A:heart: K:spade: Hero bets $1.92, UTG calls $1.92 Turn: ($6.14, 2 players) J:club: Hero checks, UTG checks River: ($6.14, 2 players) 8:heart: Hero checks, UTG bets $3.50, fold UTG wins $5.84 Pino fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jul 26, 2011 |
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Jul 26, 2011 12:13
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Pino posted:I've been trying to open my game up a bit recently and had a decent read that the UTG (who is a solid reg) While there are a lot of regs that play NL10 he isn't solid. Figure out why he is playing NL 10. I've noticed a lot of the regs at this level have giant leaks in their game, some for instance c bet too much and fold to every float unless they've hit. Anyway, UTG isn't opening because there's a fish on the button! Instead, he will be opening his buttons to attack the fish's blind (if I've got the table set up right). Your c bet is huge, especially for a 3 bet pot. I normally go a bit over half pot if it's been 3 bet. The stats indicate that 2 barreling this guy is a good move, but that Jack is not a very good card for it. Think about his range here, how did that jack affect it? I'd think he would have a lot of 2 pairs, pair +gutshots, and possibly a set. The turn is unlikely to get a fold. Check raising the river to me is fancy play syndrome and a huge leak a these stakes. There's enough people willing to call you with bad hands that bluffing isn't very profitable unless you know that the person you're bluffing can fold. Pino posted:Or does his tight (12-16%) UTG range hit this board hard enough that he's not folding if he calls the flop? You aren't playing against his UTG range. You are playing against his UTG and 3b calling range. As usual, take my advice with a grain of salt, I think I'm officially winning at this point, but it may just be a heater!
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Jul 26, 2011 13:29
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Thanks for the input Bashez, it helped a lot.
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Jul 26, 2011 21:06
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saw flop UTG ($27.36) Button ($27.51) SB ($59.85) Hero (BB) ($20) Preflop: Hero is BB J TUTG bets $0.60, Button calls $0.60, SB calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.40 Flop: ($2.40) 10  , 3, 9 (4 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $1.80, Button calls $1.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.80 Turn: ($7.80) 5 (3 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $5, 1 fold, Hero folds Total pot: $7.80 With no ability to pot control against this guy I felt uncomfortable moving forward with top pair here. I was tired of getting stacked by sets and got pretty gunshy during this session. saw flop MP ($11.30) CO ($22.03) Button ($19.70) SB ($20.04) Hero (BB) ($30.66) UTG ($24.82) Preflop: Hero is BB with A , 92 folds, CO bets $0.70, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50 Flop: ($1.50) K , K, 10 (2 players)Hero checks, CO bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50 Turn: ($4.50) 10 (2 players)Hero checks, CO checks River: ($4.50) 8 (2 players)Hero bets $2.80, 1 fold Total pot: $4.50 | Rake: $0.22 This is a hand where I think I was a victim of tilt/autopilot and just not clearly thinking about what I'm doing. I have no idea what this river bet is supposed to do, It's not folding anything I beat and occasionally gets out chops. Would I be better checking to call bluffs? I'll get bitten here occasionally but a river bet isn't avoiding that. I guess I should include in this hand that I thought this person was decent and knows how to fold so I thought a bluff was good at the time. saw flop SB ($28.90) BB ($33.04) UTG ($30.81) MP ($55.44) Hero (CO) ($20) Button ($14.74) Preflop: Hero is CO with QQ 1 fold, MP bets $0.80, Hero raises to $2.70, 3 folds, MP calls $1.90 Flop: ($5.70) J , K, 4 (2 players)MP checks, Hero bets $3, MP calls $3 Turn: ($11.70) 8 (2 players)MP checks, Hero checks River: ($11.70) 6 (2 players)MP bets $7.77, Hero calls $7.77 Total pot: $27.24 This is weird thinking about hands after the fact. Especially since I would never include his actual hand in his range in this instance. I'm trying to think of hands that would call the flop and bet the river that I'm beating and it looks mostly like 3 AQ and then some AT combos and not a whole lot else. It's strange, I'd been feeling super good about my hand analysis recently and looking over some hands I feel I have no idea what I'm doing all over again. Bashez fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 23, 2011 |
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Aug 23, 2011 17:48
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Bashez posted:saw flop assuming a normalish villain, we can predict he's typically firing twice with this range : JQ, sometimes but rarely (due to flop cbet into 4) KJ/KQ, diamonds w/ overs (which would be almost all his utg diamonds), overpairs, top pairs, sets, t9s. Board: Td 3s 9c 5d Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 74.380% 70.48% 03.90% 2388 132.00 { 99+, 33, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, ATs, Ad9d, KdQd, KdJd, KTs, QTs+, JTs, T9s, ATo, KTo, QTo+, JTo } Hand 1: 25.620% 21.72% 03.90% 736 132.00 { JhTh } if the hand ended now, you'd be losing money by calling if our range is spot on, and the hand ending a street later doesn't make things better - best case scenario, where he bluffs with all his air on a brick river, you still only win 27.2% of the time. this is a bit simplified - we aren't talking about any sort of frequencies really or giving credence to other actions (like sometimes he checks flop with QT or like JQ) but even in an best case scenario i think a fold here is just fine. quote:saw flop i think i prefer a flop ch/r here by a decent margin due to the mistakes you avoid (on later streets when ch/cing flop (ch/fing turn incorrectly)) and the mistakes you induce (getting him to fold a better hand on a later street, getting him to get it in with a worse flush or flushdraw for more $/stacks). as is your river bet makes no sense (like you said, he doesn't fold better or call worse) and you should just be ch/cing. quote:saw flop traditionally your preflop sizing would be too big, however in these games it's definitely fine... flop i think you should also size a little differently, this time a bit bigger, closer to like 2/3 pot, but a bet is def correct. by river i would think you would have to call - i don't even have to do the math, think about the kinds of hands you have that play this way and then tell me how many of them are better than QQ. answer is none, so game theoretically you have to call (unless hes never light here, then obv it changes). if you really want to look at it as a slam dunk, then go figure out how many hands he r/cs pre + chc/s this flop that beat QQ by the river (spoiler : it's not often enough to fold, and you will see some wonky things at this showdown). also note that because of your smallish flop bet you might have induced a lighter peel than if you had bet say $5, making it more likely you should be calling the end.
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Aug 24, 2011 21:49
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JCarver posted:also note that because of your smallish flop bet you might have induced a lighter peel than if you had bet say $5, making it more likely you should be calling the end. i know this is minor in the broad scheme of your analysis but this is the kind of poo poo i would never think about. they weren't my hands, but thanks for the info jc.
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Aug 25, 2011 02:24
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Yeah, wow. I feel like whenever I read JCarver breaking down a hand I'm playing checkers at a chess table. Thanks for the info.
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Aug 25, 2011 05:48
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JCarver posted:traditionally your preflop sizing would be too big, however in these games it's definitely fine... flop i think you should also size a little differently, this time a bit bigger, closer to like 2/3 pot, but a bet is def correct. by river i would think you would have to call - i don't even have to do the math, think about the kinds of hands you have that play this way and then tell me how many of them are better than QQ. answer is none, so game theoretically you have to call (unless hes never light here, then obv it changes). if you really want to look at it as a slam dunk, then go figure out how many hands he r/cs pre + chc/s this flop that beat QQ by the river (spoiler : it's not often enough to fold, and you will see some wonky things at this showdown). also note that because of your smallish flop bet you might have induced a lighter peel than if you had bet say $5, making it more likely you should be calling the end. Thanks a lot for this, it's interesting to see how much deeper your analysis goes than mine. This last hand still weirds me out, he showed up with K8 which is not at all what I expect. Though finding out someone calls oop with K8 is pretty useful.
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Aug 25, 2011 13:23
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1/2 Live I am on ~250 and covered. 8 handed: UTG(I peg him as a somewhat decent player. Definitely has read a book. Hasn't got out of line in the 3 hours i have played with him) CO(Old man calling station) UTG limps Hero(UTG+1 with AKo) raises to 8 CO calls UTG calls Flop A23r UTG checks Hero Bets $15 CO calls UTG raises $35 Hero Calls CO calls At this point, I was pretty shocked at a c/r; however, I have TPTK and i'm a fish! Turn A UTG bets $65 Hero folds My reasoning: I am pretty sure with my flat on the flop, I am definitely repping an ace. I am pretty sure UTG knows this. When the A comes on the turn, I think UTG must know I just hit trips and would slow down. I tanked for about 1 minute tryiing to think of a hand I could beat. His limp/call tells me he has small pocket pairs or small suited connectors (22, 33, 45). Is my logic correct here? Standard fold? Am I over thinking live 1/2nl? How is my play on the flop? Sypher fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Aug 26, 2011 |
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Aug 26, 2011 21:38
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I would make it at least $10 pre, and then you should just fold to the flop c/r. Decent player who hasn't gotten out of line is never c/r'ing the flop on a pure bluff, and this board is as dry as it gets so you just beat nothing. He can have A2s, A3s, 22, 33, 45s and play it this way preflop/flop every time, so that is actually a lot of hand combo's beating you.
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Aug 27, 2011 00:49
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ZeroStar posted:I would make it at least $10 pre, and then you should just fold to the flop c/r. Decent player who hasn't gotten out of line is never c/r'ing the flop on a pure bluff, and this board is as dry as it gets so you just beat nothing. He can have A2s, A3s, 22, 33, 45s and play it this way preflop/flop every time, so that is actually a lot of hand combo's beating you. Yeah, I think that is one of my biggest live leaks.. an hour of not Hitting a flop makes folding tptk extremely hard when I'm used to 4-8 tabling.
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Aug 27, 2011 01:42
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Jesus that was a clusterfuck of a session. Dropped 4BI over 600 hands but don't think I made any huge mistakes (some big pots were KK<AA, AK<66 on AK6tt board in 3-bet pot, AcQx<KK on 42JcccQhTh board and 5c9c from BTN < 99 after half stack shoved turn with board of 5dTc8d7c - I had 50% equity against any lone ten or overpair but he had to have 99 dropping my equity to 32% etc. etc.). Here's a hand where I'm unsure what my turn play should have been given the player I was up against... PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com Button ($9.65) SB ($37.37) Hero (BB) ($30.15) UTG ($34.29) MP ($25) CO ($25) Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , Q1 fold, MP bets $0.75, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.50 Flop: ($1.60) K , 10, A (2 players)Hero checks, MP checks Turn: ($1.60) Q (2 players)Hero checks, MP bets $1, Hero calls $1 River: ($3.60) 9 (2 players)Hero checks, MP bets $2.50, Hero ???? Villain in this hand was a nit running at 10/4 over about 55 hands (I know, sample size) and seemed to play really passive whenever the board turned even slightly ugly for his top pair (only seen in a few hands). I think calling is better than 3-betting against this particular villain as I don't see him calling/raising a 3-bet with worse than QQ+, AK and given that I hold two of the queens that's a pretty narrow range that he'll continue with. Flop is pretty ugly so I'm happy to check and fold to a decent bet even though I have a gutshot and backdoor nut flush draw (as I don't think I have any implied odds against this particular villain). He checks behind though. Turn gives me a set but the board has gotten worse. I really wanted to check/fold the turn versus this villain (is this way too nitty?). Should I have lead out to get value from his two pair hands which he would otherwise check behind with - hell, does he even have any two pair hands that check the flop except maybe KQ? River seems like an easy fold once I call and he continues firing. How badly did I butcher the hand? 
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Aug 28, 2011 01:46
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Why didn't you 3bet pocket queens pre? What hands are you looking to 3bet? Rest of the hand is pretty bad, regardless you have to get stacked here villian shouldn't have JJ/JT. If he has a higher set it's really unlikely given the action and just a cooler. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Aug 28, 2011 |
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Aug 28, 2011 05:14
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Dr. Eat posted:Why didn't you 3bet pocket queens pre? What hands are you looking to 3bet? He should have JJ, KJ, JTs very often. If he opens them preflop he plays this way on flop and turn every single time. I think c/c'ing turn is fine, he could be bluffing sometimes and we have a lot of outs to improve and some implied odds. You shouldn't pay off his river bet though, I think you will see the turn bluffs give up on the river a lot.
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Aug 28, 2011 05:51
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Would like some feedback on a live 1/2 hand. Table was extremely weak-passive and full of bad players, with tons of donk-betting and folding to cbets. There was a whale I was trying to iso (he was the only other deepstack and had me covered) I usually don't raise this hand. Whale is an old Chinese guy. He was pretty tight, enjoyed chasing draws and is never folding preflop, ever. He hadn't done anything too crazy except two hero calls that made perfect sense given the action but I'm not sure he realized it. It's an uncapped game he bought in very deep and had been bleeding chips to people. Hero has ~400bb and is perceived as being really tight cause I had showndown aces twice over about 4 hours. I thought I was actually playing pretty spewey postflop but w/e. Other villian in the hand is an Asian kid who goes to Stanford. He was having fun but basically a standard 1/2 calling station he has 130bb. He had been talking a lot and mentioning how tight I am a bunch (yes folding for two orbits in live poker means you are only playing AKs++). Whale limps in EP, someone else limps, I raise to 15 (this is standard for the game plz don't comment on my pre-flop action) with 85 in the cutoff, Stanford kid flats, whale calls, one fold. I was just planning to bluff with my image or maybe hit two-pair/combo-draw. Really don't want to talk about merits of raising garbage to iso a whale in position but it's fun!Flop comes ATx monotone so I flop a flush. Check, I c-bet 25, kid tanks for a bit then calls, whale calls. In general I am c-betting this board with like 100% of my range though I'm not sure they have a concept that like, I have a range except I probably have an ace or know that there are boards that I just barrel with anything. I think they're continuing with like any spade, Ax, Tx, broadway gutshot draw w/o a FD is really unlikely but possible. Turn is J . Whale checks. I bet 55. Is betting again here good? Also I didn't really like my sizing all that much but I think it's fine live. I have to bet protect my 8-hi flush right? What's our favorite river card? Least favorite? I don't think I get any action if the board four-flushes or four-straights. Plus I need to charge the whale...same time shouldn't they perceive my range to be super strong cause I'm viewed as being so tight and they fold anything <2pair/pair + FD?
Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Aug 28, 2011 |
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Aug 28, 2011 06:04
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Bet and it's not close. Your hand looks strong but luckily you are dealing with casual 1/2 players here! If you only can get 2 streets of value it is better to try flop and turn because it protects your hand, widens their calling range because they can have pair + draw which would call turn but fold river when missed, and it allows you the chance for more value on the river.
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Aug 28, 2011 06:43
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Yea probably just being results oriented cause the whale folded and I could've won like a 350 big blind pot based on what he said after the hand. Stanford kid shoved over me with top-pair + FD, whale tank-folded and banged his cards on the table a bit, I snapped kid off. River bricked. Tight image took gigantic hit.
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Aug 28, 2011 06:54
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Dr. Eat posted:Why didn't you 3bet pocket queens pre? What hands are you looking to 3bet? I mentioned that I think calling is better than 3-betting against this particular villain as I don't see him calling/raising a 3-bet with worse than QQ+, AK and given that I hold two of the queens that's a pretty narrow range that he'll continue with. I don't have a fixed 3-bet range... my range is opponent dependant and in this spot I thought the better play was to flat-call. ZeroStar posted:He should have JJ, KJ, JTs very often. If he opens them preflop he plays this way on flop and turn every single time. I think c/c'ing turn is fine, he could be bluffing sometimes and we have a lot of outs to improve and some implied odds. You shouldn't pay off his river bet though, I think you will see the turn bluffs give up on the river a lot. This is exactly what I was thinking. He would play JJ, for example, exactly like this. I wasn't super happy about calling turn because even though I'm looking for the board to pair (assuming villain doesn't bluff and his passive play so far would suggest that he doesn't often or at all), I don't see this villain letting me get a successful check/raise in on a paired board (his previous play would suggest that he'd check behind) so I would have to lead out on the river and I don't think that wins me enough money to counter the times the board doesn't pair (although I don't know the math to work this one out). In a vacuum this seems like a really nitty way of playing this hand but I'm trying to look beyond "hurrr, I have a set" and decide on the optimum play against specific opponents. Thanks for the feedback. :EDIT: ....I put him on JJ once he checked the flop and bet the turn. I tanked for a long time and finally paid him off on the river even though I knew it was a fold. I was slightly steaming after having to fold TP+ for the millionth time in a row due to lovely boards and started thinking that everybody was out to get me and he showed JJ. vampire fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Aug 28, 2011 |
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Aug 28, 2011 09:05
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I don't think there's anything wrong with flatting QQ although I'd like it a lot more in position against most opponents. I flat QQ and JJ a decent amount of the time in position because it gives you hands to repop if you get squeezed and you will flop an overpair a lot and can rep a lot more hands if you raise dry ten-high flops and poo poo like that and if you don't raise you can have more hands when you float, etc. However if they are the type of player to flat your 3bets out of position with worse hands, then by all means 3b, flatting QQ would be horrible. Out of position I would 3bet QQ most of the time but against a 10/4, if you really knew that was his actual range, I would probably not. 4% is about 99+, AK, AQs, or something like that. You're only slightly ahead of his range, he's going to have a hand he wants to get it in with (if he gets it in with AK) more than half the time, which takes away a lot of the value QQ has when 3betting to begin with. At these stakes, you aren't really 3betting QQ for getting-it-value. I don't want to say you aren't 3betting it for value because there are plenty of people who will call with random broadway hands and pocket pairs and then play them horribly postflop especially at lower stakes, but if he's 10/4 and he's going to 4bet or fold and when he gets it in he has a hand range that has 60% equity vs you (QQ+, AKs, AKo) AND he is only going to fold like half the time (which he will if he's truly only opening 4% from MP), you actually just don't have enough fold equity to make up for the times he's gonna 4bet and you'll either make a bad shove (against this guy anyway) or fold, so flatting is almost certainly better. What I'm saying is, 10/4 is so ridiculously tight, you do have to make some pretty extreme adjustments if that's really how he plays. You can't justify his tightness by stacking off with things like JJ and QQ that look good in a vacuum but will be terrible against the hands he'll get it in with. When thinking of why you want to 3bet hands like QQ, a lot of the value comes from being able to 5bet over 4bets knowing that you're never in awful shape against their calling range if they have something, but also that people will fold to your 3bets a lot, or call and have a worse hand on flop, or 4bet bluff you sometimes and fold to a 5bet that you can confidently make. All of that value adds up to make up for the times they are 4betting for value and you shove and get it in with an EV of -20 BB (40% equity) Basically none of these things is true against a 10/4 player, though, so 3betting becomes much worse. Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Aug 28, 2011 |
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Aug 28, 2011 23:27
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| # ? May 27, 2024 17:49 |
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Dr. Eat posted:Would like some feedback on a live 1/2 hand. Table was extremely weak-passive and full of bad players, with tons of donk-betting and folding to cbets. There was a whale I was trying to iso (he was the only other deepstack and had me covered) I usually don't raise this hand. Whale is an old Chinese guy. He was pretty tight, enjoyed chasing draws and is never folding preflop, ever. He hadn't done anything too crazy except two hero calls that made perfect sense given the action but I'm not sure he realized it. It's an uncapped game he bought in very deep and had been bleeding chips to people. Bet more on flop, $35 is probably good. Bet more on the turn, there is 110 in there and you bet 55? Go more like $90. Obviously bet the river unless it 4flushes.
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Aug 30, 2011 20:57
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