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Oxxidation posted:He said the plot reactivity is so great that none of its other flaws are even worth considering. the point of what he's saying (and yeah, not worth considering is overly strong), is that there are shitloads of games you can play if you want something really well polished, or bug-free, or with combat systems above mediocre, but this is pretty much the only game out there that does plot reactivity as well as this. so yeah, of course it's going to get a loving passionate following, there's nothing else like this for people that want these kinds of games.
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Sep 14, 2011 02:14
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e: This is a really strange thread to have a fan-allergic reaction to, and I'm not sure I even want to touch the discussion.
Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Sep 14, 2011 |
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Sep 14, 2011 02:16
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^^ Fag Boy Jim says it better than I did.Rentrent posted:One game? Okay, Nier. Conveniently, I recently acquired a PS3! That's going on the list, thanks.
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Sep 14, 2011 02:16
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Doc Hawkins posted:I'm not sure I even want to touch the discussion. I'm not, nothing good for me can come of it.
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Sep 14, 2011 02:28
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ToxicFrog posted:Conveniently, I recently acquired a PS3! That's going on the list, thanks. Nier is a great game and you should absolutely play it, but the guy who suggested it to you apparently only read half of the point he was responding to. It does not react to player decisions in any more dramatic a fashion than ME and it gives you far fewer opportunities for decision than even that. It absolutely shines in terms of dialogue, though.
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Sep 14, 2011 02:33
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Oxxidation you have a serious case of confirmation bias if you actually think the AP fan base is worse than the dregs of the ME fan base. I remember reading about how one dude tried to analyze how Tali's sweat would taste using what he learned in Organic chemistry 
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Sep 14, 2011 02:34
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Torsade de Pointes posted:Oxxidation you have a serious case of confirmation bias if you actually think the AP fan base is worse than the dregs of the ME fan base. I remember reading about how one dude tried to analyze how Tali's sweat would taste using what he learned in Organic chemistry Even though he included them specifically I think we should exempt Talimancers from any discussion. Ever. Again. Let's just pretend they don't exist.
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Sep 14, 2011 02:45
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I dunno, the AP fanbase is pretty vocal but they've yet to buy AP-themed avatars, gang tags, or emoticons. They also mostly post about gameplay tips and strategies, not how badass or sexy or whatever certain characters are. It doesn't even come close to cracking the top five of terrible fandoms.
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Sep 14, 2011 03:03
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Oxxidation posted:I've personally known people who have been turned off the game permanently by the slavering, insane amount of venom directed at them when they ran into difficulties or glitches during gameplay. The one case I'm thinking of is when a guy made the mistake of playing on hard, so when he came asking for advice on a boss battle the whole community called him an idiot for choosing that difficulty, and added that several glitches he had been experiencing did not in fact exist. Confession time- I'm that guy that Oxxidation's talking about. Basically what Oxxidation is trying to tell you guys is that there is a part of the fanbase for this game, and it's an incredibly loud and vitriolic part, that is intentionally antagonistic to any sort of outside criticism. And it can manifest itself as an incredibly xenophobic, incredibly reactionary viewpoint among the fanbase- I can attest to that, having experienced it firsthand. From my personal experience, yeah I played through the game on Hard as my first playthrough. This was to say the least a really loving stupid decision, but in my defense the game gives you literally no indication either in-game or out that Hard is meant as a "second playthrough" difficulty. It's not locked out when you first start the game, it doesn't tell you in a tooltip or anything that it's meant for a second playthrough, and if you're coming off a game like, say, Mass Effect you're expecting the default difficulty to be "very easy". The problem was compounded further when my (360) copy of the game experienced numerous bugs and glitches, ranging from various AI bugs to everyone in the level suddenly knowing exactly where I was for no explainable reason (this was great news for my Stealth-centric character, let me tell you) to enemies being despawned on the map on load, then spawning in 2-5 minutes later in the map (this happened to me on the first boss, and made killing him a major pain in the rear end) to being unable to crouch. Literally, the crouch button just did not work on some maps when I'd load the level. Hard mode, of course, compounded all these issues, but only in the "choke points" of the game- I had real trouble on Brayko, Taipei, etc, but everything else was at the difficulty I was expecting a Hard mode run to be- challenging, but not overwhelmingly so. This of course is the issue- the game's balance issues are all out of whack so what happens in the game is this slow, constant climb in difficulty punctuated by sheer walls of pure frustration. Anyways, I went online to another community to complain about the problems that I had with the game, and was summarily: 1) told to "stop whining" 2) insulted by literally everyone in the thread because I had chosen to play a Hard mode run, because I wasn't loving omniscient and didn't realize Hard mode was for secondary playthroughs of the game 3) accused by people of lying about the bugs and glitches I had experienced. As if I'd make all that up because I was some secret anti-AP plant bent to ruin some internet message board's day with far-fetched claims of "game breaking bugs" So you could say it soured me on the game as a whole. I still own Alpha Protocol, and my current opinion on the game is that I absolutely despise it- I know that isn't a rational opinion, I know that there are many, many good parts to the game; I know objectively that the characterization and player input reactivity the game has is nearly unprecedented in scope. To me, however, the negative aspects of the game, which in my opinion are nearly everything else in the game BUT the characterization and dialog, just killed any enjoyment I had. I still think a large part of why I do hate the game, though, was the reaction I received from the fanbase- to be literally treated as a pariah for not playing a video game correctly was surprising, to say the least, and many of memories of the game are soured by a bunch of sycophants yelling at me. But that's neither here nor there. I'm not gonna shitpost about how much I hate the game, nobody cares or wants to hear about it. I just wanted to express my experience with the game and its fanbase to support the point that AP fans can really ruin the game's enjoyment for other people, which seems at the least counterproductive to the whole point of the thing.
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Sep 14, 2011 03:04
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Rentrent posted:fanboys suck That's lovely. I understand where you are coming from though, fanboys can ruin anything for anyone. I do recommend persevering through the bugs to experience the story though, if you ever decide to pick it up again. It certainly isn't god's gift to gaming, but the experience is rather unique.
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Sep 14, 2011 03:14
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That sucks but I'm not sure I get the connection between another forum being full of jerks leading to people coming in here to accuse everyone of needing some kind of autistic videogame hugbox.
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Sep 14, 2011 04:41
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Wolfsheim posted:I dunno, the AP fanbase is pretty vocal but they've yet to buy AP-themed avatars, gang tags, or emoticons.
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Sep 14, 2011 04:43
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Having an AP-themed avatar is not quite the same as :heck: being out there somewhere. Sorry some guys were jerks to Rentrent in a dumb, uncalled for way, but this thread is quite helpful. And judging anything by its creepiest fans would lead to missing some really cool stuff, because someone will be gross about anything.
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Sep 14, 2011 05:26
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cuddlefish posted:Having an AP-themed avatar is not quite the same as :heck: being out there somewhere. This thread also had quote:"So basically, almost everyone who plays video games is a spoiled whiny little babby who wants every game to play and look exactly the same or they will respond to this violation of their comfort zone by hurling their feces at the outsider like a herd of coprophilic pod people."
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Sep 14, 2011 05:40
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Not to the level Oxxidation has been claiming tho', especially with the way he's gone on about it in other threads. Using the actions of another community to lambast this one is just stupid no matter how you cut it. poptart_fairy fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Sep 14, 2011 |
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Sep 14, 2011 05:41
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Of course people defend AP fiercely, people who want to see more games like it already feel like it's them against gaming industry and the typical gamer. And really, are they wrong? I, personally, will not criticize someone from disliking AP. I'll wait to hear what they like instead before I deride their poor taste and mock them for their unsophisticated, unrefined preferences.
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Sep 14, 2011 05:49
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Alpha Protocol is pretty cool.
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Sep 14, 2011 05:49
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Huitzil posted:This thread also had I would suggest that the majority of the posters in this thread are in the "XYZ sucks but ABC is really awesome" camp. I suspect that that position is a fair assessment of the game. If you are unable to recognise that AP has significant flaws as a game, you need your head examined.
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Sep 14, 2011 06:20
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Who Cares. Post about the game. Or don't. Let's not get meta-posting about posting about how it's You Who Are The Monsters or whatever the hell. People, people are weirdly obsessed with Alpha Protocol, that happens with every popular game that people like. It just loving happens. They'll get over it. Everyone should get over the fact that some people have yet to get over it. So shut up and post about the game.
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Sep 14, 2011 08:39
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Internet gaming community psychology. -Game comes out! -Game has flaws but pushes the envelope in certain areas which really impress some people. -Game gets mediocre reviews, gets downright slammed in some. -Due to lackluster reviews, and many failing to notice what the game does really good, likelihood of a game in a similar genre/style of gameplay drops. -Fans cling to this title which kinda stands alone in what it does. But seriously, getting an unfortunate reaction like the one above on a forum is not really that uncommon on the Internet, especially in forums about games that are on their way (or already there) of becoming "cult classics". And... it's the Internet. I know I've seen far worse "debates", the whole Bethesda Fallout sucks (which I was apart of I might add), the NWN1 vs NWN2 debate, Dragon Age 2, Morrowind vs Oblivion etc etc. Always be ready for some people vomiting on you for voicing seemingly innocent concerns.
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Sep 14, 2011 09:07
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GetWellGamers posted:I still kind of miss the initial "daydream" tutorial that was pitched, but I understand the Medbay intro ties in much more succinctly and even provides a great sense of coming full circle when you do the last level. Daydream? I'm guessing the idea was a full on over the top Roger Moore James Bond intro?
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Sep 14, 2011 09:07
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Leinadi posted:Internet gaming community psychology.
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Sep 14, 2011 09:29
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Has anyone done a full playthrough on hard with Uzis yet? I'm guessing if you're playing on Veteran it wouldn't matter, as you could max out endurance and tech aptitude and be basically invincible. Maybe put a couple points in Pistol for "that" boss? Just want to know if it plays significantly different from my previous shotgun and then pistol playthroughs. Also, even with a ton of stealth, I have such a hard time getting perfect stealth on some levels. I know it rarely if ever counts for something, but is there anything I can do other than just really take my time and memorize the spawns?
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Sep 14, 2011 10:31
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ToxicFrog posted:Here's a thought - you want people to stop praising Alpha Protocol for kicking the poo poo out of everything else in terms of character interaction and story/character/world reactivity? Recommend another game that does it at least as well. I, for one, would love to play it.
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Sep 14, 2011 11:18
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thepopstalinist posted:When I was chatting up Obsidian devs at PAX they made repeated reference to a Japanese samurai game whose name escapes me at the moment. Apparently it was like 2 hours long but had reactivity up the rear end. It's Way of the Samurai.
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Sep 14, 2011 11:26
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Social Dissonance posted:Has anyone done a full playthrough on hard with Uzis yet? I'm guessing if you're playing on Veteran it wouldn't matter, as you could max out endurance and tech aptitude and be basically invincible. Maybe put a couple points in Pistol for "that" boss? You can only get perfect stealth on only five levels but I actually like it when I get caught sneaking around as it's part of the challenge to quickly react with a well placed gadget or running kick. The guards have really crappy line of sight so just watch their patrols and use low-noise armour as noise is the main cause of getting caught when sneaking around. Uzi's are to me the most fun weapon in the game if you just want to let off steam or just speed run through levels. They have a slow start though but once you get brilliance and bullet-storm levelled up you can just charge into rooms with the fire button held down. Fire off a normal clip and just before it ends activate bullet-storm once bullet-storm is about to end activate brilliance and fire off bullet-storm again. If anything is left alive at that point then just run because it is clearly immortal.
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Sep 14, 2011 11:55
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I think the only bad memory I have of AP is when Scarlet was revealed to be a badass sniper chick instead of an interesting, useful non-combat character. Up till that point I really liked her character. Her interactions in person and e-mail were amusing, and she was a very useful ally. Then she became a boring rargh redhead death machine! More games, especially RPGs, need characters that are interesting and useful without being killing machines. Party based games have a problem with this since all party members typically need to fight, so every doctor and scientist is also a fighter. I liked that Scarlet was presented as being talented in something else while still being very useful.
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Sep 14, 2011 14:18
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It kind of sounds like you got her to help without figuring out her secret?
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Sep 14, 2011 14:31
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thepopstalinist posted:When I was chatting up Obsidian devs at PAX they made repeated reference to a Japanese samurai game whose name escapes me at the moment. Apparently it was like 2 hours long but had reactivity up the rear end. I didn't read this properly first and thought the original idea for AP's prologue was a samurai fantasy. 
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Sep 14, 2011 14:48
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Edit: Off topic. I enjoyed this video game!
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Sep 14, 2011 15:02
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Soldier o Fortune posted:Party based games have a problem with this since all party members typically need to fight, so every doctor and scientist is also a fighter. Myron! Myron, baby Myron!
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Sep 14, 2011 15:14
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Myron! Myron, baby Myron! Also, Davin and Miria.
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Sep 14, 2011 15:17
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elf help book posted:Alpha Protocol is pretty cool. If they married it with Deus Ex HR's gameplay (functioning cover, marginal AI improvement, etc.) it would be better than Deus Ex HR. As it is, it's like a sucky version of DXHR. ToxicFrog posted:Or, you know, their tastes are such that they prefer a good shooter with no player agency and mediocre writing to a mediocre shooter with good writing and player agency out the rear end. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a matter of what you prioritize in your games. What was unfortunate about AP was that I found myself avoiding the shooting not because it was challenging and dangerous, but because it behaved weirdly early on and was just tedious later on (Chain Shot Massacre Part 13) I had to replay it for just a little bit just to get a quick feel of how the shooting stacked up at base against DXHR, and comparing the "tutorial" areas of both, (Sarif labs vs. initial escape/training) the fundamentals of DXHR are good whereas they are bad in AP. DXHR and AP are really cut from the same cloth, though- Sega would be wise to re-think their dismissal of AP given DXHR's overwhelming success. I wish fuckers would learn to climb ladders and go in air vents after actual threats. In all video games. I mean, come on! A grenade comes out of an air vent. I have been doing this since the mid 90s. You aren't gonna throw one up there too? At least in AP they seem to have that somewhat down, though (there were a few circumstances where people appeared that they couldn't have gotten to where they were chasing me without ladders, although I never saw anyone actually climb one) Typhoon Jim fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Sep 14, 2011 |
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Sep 14, 2011 15:28
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Smol posted:It's Way of the Samurai. I noticed you could get the third game on XBLA the other day. Is it worth getting for hella reactivity? Is it rather similar to AP? I'm curious. perianwyr posted:If they married it with Deus Ex HR's gameplay (functioning cover, marginal AI improvement, etc.) it would be better than Deus Ex HR. As it is, it's like a sucky version of DXHR. I basically agree with this, but something about Deus Ex puts me off. The characters seem very Squeenixy in their design and general personality. Adam Jensen is basically Squall with robot arms. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Sep 14, 2011 |
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Sep 14, 2011 15:44
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Wolfsheim posted:I basically agree with this, but something about Deus Ex puts me off. The characters seem very Squeenixy in their design and general personality. Adam Jensen is basically Squall with robot arms. JC Denton wasn't exactly Captain Personality either.
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Sep 14, 2011 15:56
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perianwyr posted:If they married it with Deus Ex HR's gameplay (functioning cover, marginal AI improvement, etc.) it would be better than Deus Ex HR. As it is, it's like a sucky version of DXHR. I agree with the first half (if you took pretty much any game's gameplay and stuck it on top of Alpha Protocol, it would be a better game than Alpha Protocol), but I really don't think that the comparison with HR is apt. They're really two different games with different goals. You don't get out of AP what you get out of HR. Human Revolution is about freedom of gameplay, while Alpha Protocol is about freedom of story. It would be great if you could have a game with both, as there's nothing saying that one gets in the way of the other. One of the problems with AP is that it really didn't know what kind of game it was for most of the development. I believe stealth was added very close to release, and all of the levels were built for a shooter. The gameplay doesn't really inspire much comparison to anything other than as a half built game without a clear focus. It doesn't really accomplish anything. Human Revolution's great strength comes from the fact that it was built from the ground up as a certain kind of game, with clear goals. Mostly, it was about level design allowing for a large degree of exploration and different approaches. Nothing really substantive in the story reactivity department, and that's fine, because it means more focus on what really matters for that game.
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Sep 14, 2011 16:22
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Dr. Stab posted:One of the problems with AP is that it really didn't know what kind of game it was for most of the development. I believe stealth was added very close to release, and all of the levels were built for a shooter. The gameplay doesn't really inspire much comparison to anything other than as a half built game without a clear focus. It doesn't really accomplish anything. That's pretty much what I was saying. Obsidian's strength is writing and narrative, and if it were combined with a game that knew what it was about on game terms, the result would be amazing. This is why Sega's dismissal of future AP games is short-sighted, and maybe DXHR will change their minds. Wolfsheim posted:I basically agree with this, but something about Deus Ex puts me off. The characters seem very Squeenixy in their design and general personality. Adam Jensen is basically Squall with robot arms. That's the thing- DXHR's story falls apart in several ways (the boss characters are cut-outs, the relationship between Megan and Adam could have been construed more strongly at points, the overarching conspiracy is a little flimsy) Typhoon Jim fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Sep 14, 2011 |
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Sep 14, 2011 16:34
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Wolfsheim posted:I noticed you could get the third game on XBLA the other day. Is it worth getting for hella reactivity? Is it rather similar to AP? I'm curious. It's essentially a choose your own adventure book; it's kinda clunky and unpolished, and the combat feels wrong until you get used to it. It kinda feels like God Hand in that sense, that at first you're like "this feels like a sucky game", but once you've stuck with it for a bit, you stop worrying and just enjoy being a samurai wandering around helping whichever factions you want, or even just watching everything happen without intervening. Plenty of customization options, you can even play as any character model in the game, build your own swords from scratch, and turn on things like one hit kill mode, and my favorite feature, where upon blocking one hit from an enemy, you enter a QTE mode that allows you to kill every enemy on the screen in a series of controlled button presses. Chain shot has nothing on the ability to kill 200 warriors without breaking a sweat. I have fun with it, but it's certainly not for everybody. Look into it if you dig reactivity and can handle gameplay that doesn't immediately feel satisfying, but grows on you.
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Sep 14, 2011 16:34
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Crappy Jack posted:It's essentially a choose your own adventure book; it's kinda clunky and unpolished, and the combat feels wrong until you get used to it. It kinda feels like God Hand in that sense, that at first you're like "this feels like a sucky game", but once you've stuck with it for a bit, you stop worrying and just enjoy being a samurai wandering around helping whichever factions you want, or even just watching everything happen without intervening. God Hand never felt like a sucky game to me- it felt like Final Fight 3D in every way, but with mortal kombat finishers. The guys in the store outright LAUGHED at my girlfriend when she got this game for me. They told her it was an awful, awful game and that I would be disappointed. I do give them credit for warning someone about a potentially lovely game, though. So my opinion is definitely in the minority.
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Sep 14, 2011 16:39
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perianwyr posted:God Hand never felt like a sucky game to me- it felt like Final Fight 3D in every way, but with mortal kombat finishers. The guys in the store outright LAUGHED at my girlfriend when she got this game for me. They told her it was an awful, awful game and that I would be disappointed. I do give them credit for warning someone about a potentially lovely game, though. So my opinion is definitely in the minority. Oh, I had an absolute blast with God Hand, but it took me a couple of levels to adjust to the feel of it, same with WOTS, since it has some interesting combat techniques that you need to master to be any good at swordfighting. To tie it back in, it's a bit like that period in Alpha Protocol before you figure out that you have to wait for the critical shot to line up before you can headshot a guy; once you figure that out, you're fine, but until that point, you spend a lot of time wondering what you're doing wrong.
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Sep 14, 2011 16:46
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