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This is 1/2 not 2/5, though it's a very action-y game preflop and 10-12x opens aren't uncommon. Sizing on turn was to get the Stanford kid to commit his stack, making almost full PSB basically puts him allin. I didn't think he was capable of the shove cause he was fairly passive and I hadn't seen him make any moves like that. I think I could've gotten away with 90 though. I know I'm targeting the whale but if both of them call there I can get more value than if one of them does and build up pot size enough that I can ideally get most of my stack in on river for value. I think 2/3rds pot-size c-bets are fine too, I guess I was also a bit worried about getting action cause everyone always sees that board and goes "ZOMG flush". One thing about live poker is people think pot size bets are huge cause they're generally not keeping track of its size. People also hate to break up their stacks and I've done sizing stuff so that they end up committing themselves when they'd fold for 1-3 more chips. And yea easy bet on river w/o the 4flush.
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Sep 5, 2011 18:03
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I would bet as much money as you think the asian would call with a hand strength around Ax/2 broadways with a spade. Sizing the turn vs Stanford kid who probably has a tight turn calling range and probably never ship light is probably a mistake.
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Sep 6, 2011 01:36
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Was my analysis good this hand? I'm not sure.. Live hand 1/2 NL: My image is TAG. I was dealt K  K in small blind, there were 4 limpers in front of me and I raised to $20.BB calls, UTG calls and button calls. Flop Q  103I cbet $65. All folds to button who thinks for a while and then calls. We're both deep stacked at about 200bb (A little bit on the button, he came to the table about 30 hands before and plays pretty much every pot, he called an all in bet with AQo earlier from a really tight player.. Also I havent seen him really slow play ever, his made hands were all bet and he called his draws down until he couldnt anymore regardless of odds) So at this point I'm putting him on Qx, flush draws, open ended straight draws. I dont think 2 pair or a set is very likely because I felt like he would have raised on the flop. Either way the turn comes 10  I bet out $70 on this turn because I didn't think the 10 would hit his range and he raises me to $150. This bet really surprised me, I didnt think he'd have a 10 in his flop calling range.. I guess he could have been slowplaying Q10 or a set but if that were the case I fully expected him to bet the flop because of the potential draws and because he tends to be that kind of player. Also if he was slowplaying pre and made the nuts I'm not sure why he would raise the turn and not call and bet the river. I'm really confused at this bet it didnt make sense to me so I called, knowing I couldnt be drawing dead at least and seeing what he would do on the river. The river is a blank, I check and he shoves. I honestly don't know what he had here.. his line made no sense to me did I miss something? EDIT: Wow I hosed this up while typing it, I made some changes it should make sense now. Binton fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 23:35
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what in the hell this hand makes no sense at all ok adding in why it makes no sense Binton posted:I was dealt K The flop can't be checked to you when you're the small blind. You are first to act. Binton posted:button who thinks for a while and then calls. We're both deep stacked at about 200bb Bolded parts, why would we care about mp1 when it's just you and the button. Binton posted:I bet out $70 on this turn because I didn't think the 10 would hit his range and he raises me to $100. Illegal raise. Binton posted:Either way the turn comes 10 You obviously mean river is a blank but in light of all the other errors I can't just let this one go. Capped fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 23:37
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Capped posted:what in the hell this hand makes no sense at all
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Sep 11, 2011 23:52
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Binton posted:Was my analysis good this hand? I'm not sure.. You can call turn, c/f river I think you have enough retard equity vs someone with TP who puts you on AK, but when he minraises the T he has it a whole lot, gotta fold to the river jam, someone who calls down all their draws regardless of odds isn't making a suicide bluff like this often enough.
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Sep 14, 2011 19:19
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2/5 NL, although this is the last in a round of straddles so really 2/5/10. I am in the SB with ~2000, old asian (OA) is in BB and covers, tight guy (TG) is in the straddle. OA and TG are both very tight, OA prides himself on big folds, ie folding trips on a 3flush board in an unaggro pot to a 1/2 pot river, fold sets, etc. OA opens extremely tight preflop, standard live nit but reads hands well. Hero has an aggro image - 3b pre, bet, bet/folded Q72K, has been raising probably around 25% of his hands pre. Has made two large river raises - once vs OA when it checked to river on a board with trips on flop, OA bets weak on river with probable TP type hand, hero c/r's 15 to 55 and everyone folds, and once J42r46 board vs a different player, turn hero checks behind then raises a 120$ into 220$ river bet to $300 with KK and gets called by KJ. Anyway, folds to hero in SB who makes it $40 with 4 9 (not usually opening here but OA and TG are super tight so I feel it is worth it), OA and TG call. Flop: Q T2 ($120)This board isn't great because it smacks OA and TG really hard, but I have the heart draw so I bet $85. OA thinks for about 4 seconds and minraises, TG folds. Looking at OA, and based on his previous betting, I just have a very strong feeling that this is a single pair hand trying to figure out where it is at. So I make it $295, setting it up like I want to get stacks in. OA thinks a little and calls. Turn: 8 ($710)I ask OA how much he has, and he says $1300. He is acting like he doesn't want me to bet - pretending to be strong, stacking his chips like he is getting ready to put them in, etc. I bet $300 (in retrospect I think this is a mistake, I like $350-$375 a lot more as it makes it a lot easier to jam the river when I have the set/two pair/J:heart:9:heart: I'm representing). Villain minraises to $600, I call. River: 7 ($1910)I check. Thoughts? Abuse?
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Sep 14, 2011 19:33
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Ranma posted:2/5 NL, although this is the last in a round of straddles so really 2/5/10. I am in the SB with ~2000, old asian (OA) is in BB and covers, tight guy (TG) is in the straddle. OA and TG are both very tight, OA prides himself on big folds, ie folding trips on a 3flush board in an unaggro pot to a 1/2 pot river, fold sets, etc. OA opens extremely tight preflop, standard live nit but reads hands well. TG's range doesn't his this board as hard as you think, the best he can have is like AQ maaaaybe. And his range is a lot wider since he straddled and there's already a caller and he's got position. For the most part I agree that he has one pairs in his range, mostly stuff like AQ, but even if he has KQ and AQ he can still also have QT TT 22 and some very good combo draws occasionally. If he can't have 2p or sets, we raised way too small. We bet 85 he raises to 170 and we make it 295??? we're giving him like 5 to 1 for no reason, he's never finding a fold there. Now if we make it like 400 I think we get the result we want and we can easily set up turn bet and river jam and we don't give him any room to "minraise for information" or whatever he is doing. I'm not positive what you mean by "setting it up like I want to get stacks in." I don't think the tight asian guy has a multi street plan when he minraises flop on the wettest board ever, so he's not really thinking about our multi-street plan of getting stacks in. I think we need to just raise bigger on the flop if we're raising, or call flop and ch/r turn. I'm not sure we planned out what we are doing on later streets and different textures, we just kind of said "hes weakish, I have a flush draw, I will bluff". Maybe I'm wrong though.
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Sep 14, 2011 21:59
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Ranma posted:
Doesn't sound like you have the image for this even against these nits. After his b/c on flop his range is pretty draw heavy. Board is too wet for him to have a set after b/c on flop isn't it. I guess it could make sense if he was crazy enough to be afraid of set over set or if it was QQ he might slowplay some % of the time. J9 gets there on turn and when he minraises again it seems likely. Strange for him to have that if he's as tight as you say. It's a just about an exactly break even call on the turn but as you said he's folding if the heart rolls off on the river. I'd b/f turn. Board: Qh Td 2h 8c equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 77.016% 76.03% 00.99% 1037 13.50 { QQ, TT, 22, KhJh, QTs, J9s, QTo, J9o } Hand 1: 22.984% 21.99% 00.99% 300 13.50 { 9h4h } AARO fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Sep 14, 2011 |
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Sep 14, 2011 22:05
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Based on his play so far, the chance of him having a draw is near 0 - earlier he called down with a combo draw, and apologized/talked about on the river how he wanted to fold the turn but couldn't because of his outs. I agree my flop sizing is attrocious... My 'defense' is that the dealer pulled in my bets, so I just saw the $85 and went 3x, but that is pretty terrible.
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Sep 15, 2011 14:24
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olin posted:It's a just about an exactly break even call on the turn but as you said he's folding if the heart rolls off on the river. We cannot fold the turn. We bet 300 into 700 he minr to 600 so now there's 1600 in the pot and it's 300 to call. We're getting 5.3 to 1 so we need 15.9% to call. That's a pretty solid expectation. Also if we get to a showdown it fucks up our image excellently and we probably get paid more. This is assuming he never has a draw and he's never calling if we bink river. Can't fold now.
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Sep 15, 2011 18:27
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Ranma posted:Thoughts? Abuse? Not thrilled about raising pre; in fact, I kinda hate it 200 bbs effective. Yeah, they're tight but the kinds of people who straddle generally aren't the kinds of people who fold their straddles in position. Also, unlike SB vs BB, you now have two people who can gently caress with you in position. They can't just be regular tight for this to be +EV, they have to be exceptionally tight or there have to be antes or they have to be so terrible postflop that it negates their innate positional advantage. This is pretty rare even at live 2-5. This may sound results oriented, but it's tough for this to be a profitable preflop $40 open when it results in you putting (at least) $600 in the middle with 9-hi against someone who's not folding very much. Really hate the 3bet size as SM pointed out, but hey live misclicks happen. I probably wouldn't have 3bet to begin with: I would just assume that a tightish guy has flopped huge here (all sets are in his range, maybe you can discount QQ a bit, QT is definitely in his range, AQ-QJ, Q9 are in his range and people live do not like folding top pair). You said he plays draws passively, but maybe he'll play something like AJhh or AThh more aggro because it's NFD plus something else. Anyway, if his range is weighted toward made hands that he's unlikely to fold, you can just call getting direct odds, then c/r or lead turn depending on the card/what you think he'll do. Additionally, if he's unlikely to have a better flush draw here, you don't have to worry about reverse implied odds as much. As played I probably check the turn. You said he has a made hand, and the 8 only makes J9 get there. Thus, he's probably not folding to your turn barrel with his made hands. But, if you check, sometimes he'll give you a free/cheap shot at hitting your flush/gutty. Or sometimes you can crai turn if you really think he's going to make one of his hero folds, though this could also be lighting money on fire given how strong he seems so far...
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Sep 15, 2011 23:31
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MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:We're getting 5.3 to 1 so we need 15.9% to call. Somehow I did the math wrong and I thought we needed around ~22 1/2%. Obviously you're right then, can't fold turn if you can correctly do 6th grade math.
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Sep 17, 2011 17:41
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2 5/10 hands i played this weekend hand 1 i start with 2k from a starting 1.1 or something. it folds to the hijack who open limps. he's down from like 2k to 1.2k, complaining about running bad for the last three months and poo poo like that. he's visibly getting frustrated about the hands hes been dealt. i have red JJ and make it 60. everyone folds, HJ flats. flop Tc5s4c he checks pretty fast, i bet 85. he snap announces allin. i ? hand 2 i have been button straddling all session. a very very solid good woman in mp opens to 45 (she covers me and she has a lot of big chips), but i can tell she's a little upset that she didnt see my straddle. an arab/indian guy in expensive sunglasses with a whole bunch of chips that are mixed up randomly with about 2.1k flats. I have Q3ss in the btn and defend. flop 7s8sJc woman bets 80, i/a guy flats, i make it 270, woman folds, i/a guy calls turn Ac he checks, i think for 30 seconds and bet 450, he tanks for 2 mins and calls. river 4d he checks after a minute, i think for 30 seconds and announce 1000... ps. what are the merits of live button straddling? is it always +ev? it has to depend on the game makeup right? what sort of games is it a losing play in? bbc what it dew fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Sep 23, 2011 |
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Sep 23, 2011 18:12
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bbc what it dew posted:2 5/10 hands i played this weekend I'll try my best here on Hand 1 because even though I'm a newb, I'm a newb who plays a lot of live poker (albeit $1/$2 and $2/$5) and is a winning player. So please anyone else comment on my comments because I am not 100% on my advice. I think you can pretty much discount sets because it's a dryish board and no one in their right mind pushes for like 1k there. Any other observations on what types of hands he likes to limp with? If he's a typical really bad live player and passive and he's not just leveling you with the "running bad" talk, I'd say a HUGE portion of his range is big pairs (QQ, KK, AA, the other JJ though less likely) who limp and check-shove any flop where they hold an overpair, 54 could do this afraid of maybe being counterfeited, combo/overcard flush draws that don't mind taking it down now but if called could still have a decent chance to win are also possible here, and MAYBE just an OESD but I can't see that too often. From his perspective, this isn't the type of board that you are likely to fold an overpair to unless he has a decent read on you, so I can't see him doing this with AT, 99-66 very often where he is dominated when called. I can't stove it right now, but you need to nearly get 1:1 on your money here and I just don't see enough hands that you beat here. I'd fold.
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Sep 23, 2011 20:23
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bbc what it dew posted:ps. what are the merits of live button straddling? is it always +ev? it has to depend on the game makeup right? what sort of games is it a losing play in? Merits of button straddling are playing bigger pots with people who make bad decisions in general so it basically magnifies their mistakes, or people who you will not have a lot of fold equity in smaller pots but they randomly spazz out and fold/shove or make terrible decisions only in big pots oop because of the increase in pressure. I also only do it when I am winning because I am likely to make worse decisions when I am losing. If your play is consistent, then there is no reason to do it all the time in a weaker game. Also if you are the type that doesn't win a lot without hitting, then I wouldn't do it. Another plus is it loosens up the game or is very intimidating in some games where no one else is doing it. Also if you have a tougher time building pots, then it can be of great use. If you don't make great decisions postflop, or if you are losing a bunch and think people are running over you and are more likely to level yourself into "fighting back" then I would stay away from straddles.
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Sep 23, 2011 21:24
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WaWaWeeWoW posted:Merits of button straddling are playing bigger pots with people who make bad decisions in general so it basically magnifies their mistakes, or people who you will not have a lot of fold equity in smaller pots but they randomly spazz out and fold/shove or make terrible decisions only in big pots oop because of the increase in pressure. I also only do it when I am winning because I am likely to make worse decisions when I am losing. If your play is consistent, then there is no reason to do it all the time in a weaker game. Also if you are the type that doesn't win a lot without hitting, then I wouldn't do it. Another plus is it loosens up the game or is very intimidating in some games where no one else is doing it. Also if you have a tougher time building pots, then it can be of great use. If you don't make great decisions postflop, or if you are losing a bunch and think people are running over you and are more likely to level yourself into "fighting back" then I would stay away from straddles. -EV if you read this post otherwise prob +EV
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Sep 24, 2011 03:41
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Lord of the Llamas posted:-EV if you read this post otherwise prob +EV These are the reasons why I straddle, so I would love to know why they are retarded and do it for the correct reasons if you care to share.
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Sep 24, 2011 22:20
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WaWaWeeWoW posted:These are the reasons why I straddle, so I would love to know why they are retarded and do it for the correct reasons if you care to share. WaWaWeeWoW posted:Merits of button straddling are playing bigger pots with people who make bad decisions in general so it basically magnifies their mistakes, Well playing in position gives you greater control over the pot so you can amplify the size when your edge is larger. That is NOT a benefit of the straddle, just of being in position! WaWaWeeWoW posted:or people who you will not have a lot of fold equity in smaller pots but they randomly spazz out and fold/shove or make terrible decisions only in big pots oop because of the increase in pressure. Button straddle prob means that people will open less (and so be OOP against you less often) so this argument works against it? WaWaWeeWoW posted:I also only do it when I am winning because I am likely to make worse decisions when I am losing. ............... WaWaWeeWoW posted:If your play is consistent, then there is no reason to do it all the time in a weaker game. .............???????????? WaWaWeeWoW posted:Also if you are the type that doesn't win a lot without hitting, then I wouldn't do it. That's what she said! WaWaWeeWoW posted:Another plus is it loosens up the game or is very intimidating in some games where no one else is doing it. Also if you have a tougher time building pots, then it can be of great use. I don't think that "building pots" is something you should be doing so indiscriminately. If a game is so tight/inexploitable that you think straddling is required you should prob find a different game. WaWaWeeWoW posted:If you don't make great decisions postflop, or if you are losing a bunch and think people are running over you and are more likely to level yourself into "fighting back" then I would stay away from straddles. Or stay away from poker....
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Sep 25, 2011 02:34
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Well playing in position gives you greater control over the pot so you can amplify the size when your edge is larger. That is NOT a benefit of the straddle, just of being in position! Lord of the Llamas posted:Button straddle prob means that people will open less (and so be OOP against you less often) so this argument works against it? This is not always true in good live games. A lot of people won't adjust by opening less often. Lord of the Llamas posted:............... I am more likely to tilt when I am losing so I don't understand why you don't agree with this, as straddling forces you to play marginal hands. Lord of the Llamas posted:.............???????????? That was a typo, I meant to say there is no reason to not do it all the time in a weaker game. Lord of the Llamas posted:I don't think that "building pots" is something you should be doing so indiscriminately. If a game is so tight/inexploitable that you think straddling is required you should prob find a different game. Well not everyone reacts to straddles the same. Because the pots are bigger, some people will put money in, that wouldn't if it was non-straddled pot. Lord of the Llamas posted:Or stay away from poker.... I mean if you are slightly tilted, you don't want to do anything that can cause more tilt. I wasn't arguing that getting up from the table isn't the best decision, but straddling at that time is definitely a bad idea.
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Sep 25, 2011 04:57
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my bluff?
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Sep 25, 2011 17:33
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Not sure if this is the right thread for this question but I thought it would be better to post here than to start a new thread. Can you help my buddies and me settle a disagreement about the rules? Last night, I hosted a No Limit Hold Em game with four total players. In one particular hand, there were two players at the table going heads up. Both Player A and Player B were making small bets until the river card came up. The board showed a 3-7 straight, and Player A went all in and Player B called. Here's the disagreement: Player A had Ace-2 for his hole cards and Player B had something like 4-5 or some other hole cards which would have made two pair if there wasn't a straight on the board. Player A felt that he was entitled to the entire pot because he had an Ace, but I said that the pot should have been split because if all five community cards make the nut hand, then the hole cards are disregarded since each player is only allowed to use the best combination of five cards. Player A called his mother who is a big time poker player and she said that the player with the highest hole card should take the whole pot, but I disagreed. Who is right? In the end, since it was still early in the game, and since we were all just buddies looking to have fun for the night we decided that the pot should be split (which was the correct ruling in the first place, right?). Is there a link to some kind of official standardized poker rulebook? I would like to back up my position the next time we get together.
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Sep 25, 2011 17:51
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RedDragon8429 posted:Not sure if this is the right thread for this question but I thought it would be better to post here than to start a new thread. Of course the pot is split because they both play the same 5 card poker hand. Player A's mother is obviously either (1) Not a "big time" poker player or (2) a total bitch who lied to try and help her son steal money. There's no "official" rule set since every place writes their own rules. The best thing to do is just to try and apply some common sense to your decisions, especially in a casual homegame where strict enforcement of technicalities shouldn't be necessary.
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Sep 25, 2011 18:03
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Of course the pot is split because they both play the same 5 card poker hand. Player A's mother is obviously either (1) Not a "big time" poker player or (2) a total bitch who lied to try and help her son steal money. I don't know. When I talked to her on the phone to explain my position she asked me if I knew who she was and that she would kick my rear end in poker.
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Sep 25, 2011 18:07
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RedDragon8429 posted:I don't know. When I talked to her on the phone to explain my position she asked me if I knew who she was and that she would kick my rear end in poker. Who is it?
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Sep 25, 2011 18:11
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The great thing about poker is you can be awful and think you're "a big time player"!!!
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Sep 25, 2011 18:13
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Who is it? Nobody, just my buddy's mom. As far as I know.
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Sep 25, 2011 18:17
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RedDragon8429 posted:Nobody, just my buddy's mom. As far as I know. Well what's her name. I assume you at least know her surname!!
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Sep 25, 2011 18:19
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Well what's her name. I assume you at least know her surname!!  
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Sep 25, 2011 21:53
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Well what's her name. I assume you at least know her surname!! Actually I don't. I worked with her son for 6 months and I only know his first name. I doubt she's anyone that anyone would have heard of. I'm assuming her professional credentials would have been brought up when he called her. other than, "she's a big time poker player."
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Sep 26, 2011 03:15
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Obviously if you don't know that Texas Hold'Em is a game where you play your best five card hand against your opponent's best five card hand then you're not a big time poker player. In the future know that sometimes people say "Do you even know who I am?" to get people to think that they're more important than they actually are. I do it all the time.
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Sep 26, 2011 04:10
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Does noone own a phone that has internet? I mean come on
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Sep 26, 2011 04:38
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Besides Player A who called his mom (who I am almost positive is not Annie Duke) one other guy tried to look it up on his iPhone. I was the only one who seemed to know that the pot should have been split. And I'm not afraid of people asking if I know who they are. Not that it happens all the time, but I get a certain pleasure from saying "No, I don't. Who are you and why does it matter?"
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Sep 26, 2011 05:32
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Yeah, so this wasn't really the right thread for that question. For future reference, you can ask general questions here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=1668026 or here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3024017. So were all the chips worth 1 each?
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Sep 26, 2011 06:19
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odiv posted:So were all the chips worth 1 each? Not to continue a topic that I guess doesn't belong in this thread, but... There was a $2 buy in but we valued the chips at $200 in denominations of $1, $5, $10, and $20.
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Sep 27, 2011 04:27
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Holy poo poo, live NL2. That must be excruciating.
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Sep 27, 2011 17:09
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TheSleeper posted:Holy poo poo, live NL2. That must be excruciating. Feels like a whole lot more with twenty dollar chips!!
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Sep 27, 2011 20:47
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No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com MP1 ($100) MP2 ($125.49) MP3 ($99.50) Hero (CO) ($100) Button ($42.63) SB ($120.23) BB ($100.58) UTG ($99.79) UTG+1 ($42.50) Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , Q5 folds, Hero bets $3, Button calls $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2 Flop: ($9.50) 5 , J, 2 (3 players)BB checks, Hero bets $6.50, Button calls $6.50, 1 fold Turn: ($22.50) 3 (2 players)Hero bets $10, Button calls $10 River: ($42.50) 6 (2 players)Hero bets $28.33, Button calls $23.13 (All-In) Total pot: $88.76 I've been running into a lot of spots like this lately just wondering if the thinish value on river is correct? Vil is a maniac 65/37 7% 3b 20% f2cb on f 75% f2cb on t. Only 75 hands tho so stats are kinda unreliable. If I check river I'm calling a shove so I might as well bet to stack all his jacks? Better yet just jam turn? I just bet small because he seemed to call with anything on the flop but fold turns and also his stack size. AARO fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 14, 2011 |
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Oct 14, 2011 18:27
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Jamming the turn would be really bad. I think the play looks fine, this is a bad river for a few reasons but the guy seems very bad, so it isn't optimistic to think he calls with some worse hands here. If you had a pot size bet it would be trickier, with half pot left just go all in. Your turn betsize seems pretty good, since he has a short stack you want to maximize the value you get from weak made hands that will call 1 more small bet after the flop action. Betting big on turn loses value in that case, and ends up being the same in the situation where he has a stack off hand.
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Oct 14, 2011 20:00
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| # ? May 24, 2024 12:43 |
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Live $1/$2 NL. UTG is a young guy with a lovely attitude and has been spewing money all night, he's probably down at least $700-800 at this point and is definitely on tilt. He has $100 in front of him after just buying back in. UTG raises to $5. 2 MP calls (both with about $200 stacks). I pick up AKo on the cutoff and raise to $27 (I have about $300 at this point). UTG and both MPs call. Flop comes 542r. UTG raises all in for $73 into a ~$105 pot after rake. Both MPs fold. Hero? I think there is a decent chance he is bluffing because he has varied his PFR sizes depending on the strength of his hand, so I put him on anything from small to medium pocket pairs to small aces and maybe something like KT, KJ, QJ. Looking up the odds after the fact, I'm 36% to win against an overpair, but only 10-15% to win against A5, A4, A2, 22, 33, 44, 55. Mind_Taker fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Oct 16, 2011 |
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Oct 16, 2011 16:07
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