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Cena won't get in next year. 6 years on top, three of which have seen alarming drops in business and ratings aren't enough. He'll eventually get in though.
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Oct 20, 2011 03:22
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| # ? May 12, 2024 07:12 |
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Wow, Sting went from 20% to 43%. Next year folks! Iaukea only made it in because he died. Horseshit the way that works. Edit: Oh come on "Williams when it came to functional man-on-man strength, may have been the strongest man in the history of the business". I'm very skeptical of Dave's claims for Williams' lifts. ChampRamp fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Oct 20, 2011 |
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Oct 20, 2011 03:28
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SAVE_US.CHR
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The story about being at a Raiders football camp is awesome. gently caress you! I can make more money in my underwear. 
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Oct 20, 2011 03:33
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MassRayPer posted:Cena won't get in next year. 6 years on top, three of which have seen alarming drops in business and ratings aren't enough. He'll eventually get in though. Cena is seen as the guy that brought back house show business in the US in 05 from previous lows in the post-attitude era, and the boon in business until 08 is attributed to him. Much of his growth of the wrestling industry is expanding out of the traditional draw metrics to make things like merchandise sales a legitimate factor in WWE profitability. The slump the WWE is in now cannot be attributed to just Cena because it involves the lack of foresight by WWE in how they promote PPVs and their ability to make new stars while older ones retire/leave. It could be said that Cena is the only reason is it not even worse. Cena and HHH are the only wrestlers who consistently move ratings (although Henry has been elevating Smackdown for the past month.) He, along with Mistico, are talked about as the only two locks who were not on the ballot. If it doesn't make it next year it is only because of people not voting for him because "I wait until they retire," which is a silly argument when Cena has already proven himself to be a great draw (top 3 for the past decade,) good/great worker, and trail-blazing (yes, trail-blazing) work on the promotion circuit and charity work show he has been influentially positive to the business as whole. Cena's story is not still being written, its pretty much set in stone unless he kills somebody. The Cena/Rock WM buyrate will just cement it. GoutPatrol fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Oct 20, 2011 |
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Oct 20, 2011 03:46
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We should do a Punchsport Hall of Pain. It'd just be Disco Inferno, The Stro and that guy Mass Ray Per hates from the WCW thread. Van someone.
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Oct 20, 2011 04:23
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LordPants posted:We should do a Punchsport Hall of Pain. So you want to do WrestleCrap?
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Oct 20, 2011 04:31
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Lone Rogue posted:So you want to do WrestleCrap? Can't be worse than what WrestleCrap is now.
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Oct 20, 2011 04:37
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Lone Rogue posted:So you want to do WrestleCrap? It'd be a goon hall of fame. Saluting the best, and the worst of the entertainment we love.
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Oct 20, 2011 04:41
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GoutPatrol posted:Cena is seen as the guy that brought back house show business in the US in 05 from previous lows in the post-attitude era, and the boon in business until 08 is attributed to him. Much of his growth of the wrestling industry is expanding out of the traditional draw metrics to make things like merchandise sales a legitimate factor in WWE profitability. The slump the WWE is in now cannot be attributed to just Cena because it involves the lack of foresight by WWE in how they promote PPVs and their ability to make new stars while older ones retire/leave. It could be said that Cena is the only reason is it not even worse. Cena and HHH are the only wrestlers who consistently move ratings (although Henry has been elevating Smackdown for the past month.) Mistico had a great couple of years and then two really lousy years. He shouldn't be a lock either. In fact it would be ridiculous if Mistico got in at all right now. Luckily for him he has a couple more years until eligibility. If next year's WM does a really killer buyrate it may push him over, but I don't think he'll get in on the first ballot. Remember, SHAWN MICHAELS was not a first ballot Hall of Famer. Neither was Konnan and at his peak he was way more important in Mexico than Cena is in the US. At this point Cena has 3 great years to rely on. If that is all it took, way more people would be in. His wrestling is hit or miss and his charity work has made almost no impact on the business. For impact you can argue he laid the groundworks for the return to PG and the Mattel deal due to his popularity, but his charity work has meant literally nothing to the business as a whole.
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Oct 20, 2011 04:44
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For those of you who don't listen to the Steve Sims shows, the following exchange took place: (Talking about Dr. X, a midcarder who was killed in a shooting a few days ago) Bryan: So, what level of star was he, how would you rank him? Sims: Well, right now I'd rate him at the level of a Bobby Roode because he can't win any titles. 
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Oct 20, 2011 09:16
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Wait? Scott Hall killed a man? 
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Oct 20, 2011 10:39
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LordPants posted:Wait? Scott Hall killed a man? You could say he put a gun against his head, pulled his trigger, now he's dead. About Cena and the Hall of Fame, I will be surprised if he pulls HOF numbers in any category next year.
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Oct 20, 2011 12:08
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MassRayPer posted:Mistico had a great couple of years and then two really lousy years. He shouldn't be a lock either. In fact it would be ridiculous if Mistico got in at all right now. Luckily for him he has a couple more years until eligibility. If next year's WM does a really killer buyrate it may push him over, but I don't think he'll get in on the first ballot. Remember, SHAWN MICHAELS was not a first ballot Hall of Famer. Neither was Konnan and at his peak he was way more important in Mexico than Cena is in the US. At this point Cena has 3 great years to rely on. If that is all it took, way more people would be in. Shawn Michaels and Konnan were not let in early for stupid reasons. HBK because everyone thought he was a dick no matter how good his work was. Konnan was seen as a failure inside the US because of his terrible WCW run. Both got in for different reasons as well. HBK got in when he came back after a 4 year layoff and was working as good as when he left, and stopped being a dick. Konnan got in after Dave wrote up a list of all-time draws and he was the much, much higher on the list than most people figured, and by far and away the highest person on the list not in the HOF. Mistico started an entire boom period on his own. The "lousyness" of the final years is only in comparison to how big he was before, and not out of line with CMLL historic averages. His boom stopped only by the inability for CMLL to do the right thing in booking him (once they started making him lose clean they needed to build for the heel turn, and business picked up when they started a hell program but quickly canceled it) and WWE pushing into Mexico making all promotions look B-level. Mistico's chances of getting in have slipped considerably because of how people see him now by going to WWE. You are comparing John Cena's drawing ability as something as the Warrior/Goldberg level, which is laughable. What Cena has done is a completely different type of draw. When you say it was only 3 years on top, it is not like other draws have done more than him in the US. If you're gonna compare it that way, The Rock was only big for 3 years. Technically, Cena could be seen as the biggest draw in the world for 3 years, going by the 10,000 level house show metric Dave likes to use. From the 2010 business year-in-review: Dave Meltzer posted:This makes the third year (along with 2007 and 2009) that Cena ranks No. 1. As far as overall historically, at this point in Cena’s career he is the 34th biggest draw in history based on annual positioning in the top ten. Mistico moves to No. 24 of all-time. Undertaker moves to No. 25. Randy Orton moves to No. 64. Batista is at No. 69. Jericho moves to No. 75. The latter three are in a position where some are in the Hall of Fame and some aren’t, so they would not be considered in “lock” positions. Everyone top 25 is in the Hall of Fame and almost everyone in the top 55 is in. WWE has always been profitable. And even then, being on top for 3 years now, when there is only one large wrestling company in the world, is very different from even 15 years ago where there were many strong promotions. I know that his work is not at the top-level, but his number of great matches has built up to be very impressive. And when I say historically positive, I mean that John Cena is the new template for how a wrestler will be used to promote the business. Once he got on top, Cena was a nonstop media machine. Whenever they needed someone to to radio work coming into town, they asked Cena. Whenever WWE wanted someone in a celebrity poker tournament or reality thing, the goto guy was Cena, and was until The Miz started sharing duty. Whatever the WWE looks for now in their top guys, they are going to want a "company man" like Cena. And that is why I think he is a lock.
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Oct 20, 2011 13:58
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I don't think Cena's a lock, in that I don't think he'll get the necessary votes. Whether or not he deserves in is a point worth debating, but my feeling is people simply won't vote for him en masse. I doubt he breaks 50%, honestly.
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Oct 20, 2011 14:15
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LordPants posted:I love, (and the Rock means LOVE), how an Australian superstar was introduced but Wrestling is so shunned in Australia that I HAD NEVER HEARD OF HIM IN MY LIFE. I mean, I had, but I didn't know he was a top drawing babyface. Or, y'know even in Australia in the first place. I remember my parents telling me when I was younger wrestling was quite popular on Australian weekend day-time TV when they were younger. LordPants posted:Wait? Scott Hall killed a man?
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Oct 20, 2011 14:38
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Prince Iaukea, not the WCW one. Was apparently really big down here and across the ditch in New Zealand.
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Oct 20, 2011 15:22
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LordPants posted:Prince Iaukea, not the WCW one. Was apparently really big down here and across the ditch in New Zealand. KING Curtis Iaukea. 
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Oct 20, 2011 15:42
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I'd bet against getting in next year but I feel like Cena will do much better among active wrestlers than reporters. He's friends with a lot of people and guys like Jericho go out of their way to praise his abilities beyond working an ungodly amount of shows and charity dates.
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Oct 20, 2011 17:40
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GoutPatrol posted:Shawn Michaels and Konnan were not let in early for stupid reasons. HBK because everyone thought he was a dick no matter how good his work was. Konnan was seen as a failure inside the US because of his terrible WCW run. Both got in for different reasons as well. HBK got in when he came back after a 4 year layoff and was working as good as when he left, and stopped being a dick. Konnan got in after Dave wrote up a list of all-time draws and he was the much, much higher on the list than most people figured, and by far and away the highest person on the list not in the HOF. And despite all of that media work, WWE's PPVs are at all time lows, their ratings have fallen year after year, live gates are declining and their overall profitability has declined. The Rock had 4 years on top, but those were the biggest years of all time. Those aren't just four good years, they are four legendary years. John Cena was a good draw for several years and is now on top in a period where PPV is worse than it has ever been. Pro wrestling itself is still looked on obscenely poorly despite all the media and charity he does. Just look at the Linda McMahon campaign. CMLL's business went well below the average last year. Their ratings reached test pattern levels in the early fall of 2010 and there were some scary gates at Arena Mexico. Cena should get in eventually, but there are going to be people who are going to hold things against him for one reason or another. He might even get in on the first ballot, but I don't think he will for reasons I've laid out and reasons that probably exist in the heads of some of the voters.
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Oct 20, 2011 20:07
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The list of top 10 vote getters from active/retired wrestlers is really interesting. Edge can't crack the top 10 among active guys. Active or retired, nobody likes Sting.
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Oct 20, 2011 21:28
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New AoW is up. Chris Masters is the guest this week. Fun Fact: "The Blueprint" Matt Morgan came up with The Masterpiece as Chris Masters nickname 
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Oct 20, 2011 22:20
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:The list of top 10 vote getters from active/retired wrestlers is really interesting. Can you give us the lists instead of just hinting at them?
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Oct 20, 2011 22:55
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Hirams Bitch posted:Can you give us the lists instead of just hinting at them? Top 10 vote getters among various groups posted:ACTIVE WRESTLERS
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Oct 20, 2011 23:17
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Active or retired, nobody likes Sting. Hey, going from 20% to 42% is pretty good.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:21
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I'm still kinda shocked the Rock & Roll Express aren't in.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:46
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ChampRamp posted:Hey, going from 20% to 42% is pretty good. I just find the wrestler voting to be more interesting and focused on that. I would have figured Sting had trouble getting support because voters are more WWE than WCW guys, but Edge barely beat him which flies in the face of that.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:50
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Big Daddy had a boost also.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:53
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:I'm still kinda shocked the Rock & Roll Express aren't in. I think they should let Ricky in and then at the last minute when you don't think it could possibly happen he gets Robert in.
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Oct 21, 2011 00:03
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Just listened to the call that killed the Vinnie V Sports Report. Awesome.
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Oct 21, 2011 00:04
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:You could say he put a gun against his head, pulled his trigger, now he's dead. Hey Yo! Hey Yo! Hey Yo! Hey Yo! Oh Disco Fever, Disco Fever, you can't join NWO
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Oct 21, 2011 00:16
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Moose Bigelow posted:I think they should let Ricky in and then at the last minute when you don't think it could possibly happen he gets Robert in. God drat, Moose. 
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Oct 21, 2011 00:25
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:God drat, Moose. Did you know in SMW the Rock and Roll Express feuded because Robert got angry that he got all the work because he was saving Ricky all the time? Jim Cornette was the booker's booker.
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Oct 21, 2011 01:09
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LordPants posted:Did you know in SMW the Rock and Roll Express feuded because Robert got angry that he got all the work because he was saving Ricky all the time? I need to brush up on my SMW because I didn't know that, but I love it!
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Oct 21, 2011 01:13
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Why are dead people among "active wrestlers"
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Oct 21, 2011 02:08
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Garbow posted:Why are dead people among "active wrestlers" If the people who were voted for on that list aren't active wrestlers, thennnnnnn..........
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Oct 21, 2011 02:09
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Garbow posted:Why are dead people among "active wrestlers"
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Oct 21, 2011 02:18
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Is piracy really the reason Edgar/Maynard III tanked? I mean, really? I could pirate all this bs, but I don't, but if it's a big UFC, like UFC 137 was going to be I would buy it. A completely different mentality in society? Dave is sounding like an old man now.
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Oct 21, 2011 02:33
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LordPants posted:Is piracy really the reason Edgar/Maynard III tanked? I mean, really? I am curious if he has numbers on the amount of people streaming shows in the past 6 months vs historically. He does occasionally update on that kind of stuff.
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Oct 21, 2011 02:37
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LordPants posted:Is piracy really the reason Edgar/Maynard III tanked? I mean, really? Dave readily admits Edgar is not a draw.
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Oct 21, 2011 02:46
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The bit where Dave made that claw pun made me laugh
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Oct 21, 2011 14:00
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