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Guess why so many people are disappointed with Die Grünen. Fischer's behaviour wasn't exactly helping. There was some coverage about Schröder's new position with Gazprom in the media, but not very much. Hungry Gerbil fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Nov 25, 2011 |
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Nov 25, 2011 21:50
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I tried to interview Fischer when I met him waiting for a train in Hamburg Central a few years ago and asking about his change of stances and positions since the 70s made his security guard block me off and tell me to gently caress off basically. He really doesn't like owing up to it.
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Nov 25, 2011 22:10
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goethe42 posted:No wonder, no one really gives a poo poo if he cheated on his dissertation except for those people that have to write their own and are envious that the minister post and the "von" doesn't come with it for free. Yes, being chancellor is in no way a high demand job, and the only qualification is being a swell dude. Günter Jauch/Thomas Gottschalk 2013!
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Nov 25, 2011 23:39
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az posted:Interrupting Guttenberg chat to say that you shan't read the spiegel online or otherwise. Bad journalism is bad. When you tell German's this, they get really upset.
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Nov 26, 2011 16:17
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elwood posted:If you want to know more about the german fascination with poo poo, read this:  A 155 page discussion about a new toilet. Magical.
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Nov 26, 2011 16:59
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HighClassSwankyTime posted:
155 posts. It's still a pretty strange discussion.
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Nov 26, 2011 17:22
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goethe42 posted:What difference makes it for his qualification as a politician that his dissertation did not entirely consist of his own work? He would very probably have made the same career without the title. This is the strangest defense, and also a pretty common one. If this title didn't matter, why get it? Why fake a piece of academic writing to get it? And I guess it's cool that you are not impressed by titles, but you can rest assured that there are people who will be a lot more willing to pay attention to someone if that someone has a "Dr." in front of their name. Saying that such a title is meaningless is straight-up ignorant. quote:His charisma and appearance are what qualifies him as a potential future chancellor, not his ability to manage family, political career and scientific work at the same time. As part of his excuse Guttenberg stated that he was "overworked" and therefore made these "mistakes" that made it look like he "plagiarized" part of his work. Yeah, that's totally a guy I want to have in a place of power. Either he's a lying scumbag, which is a bad thing even though you apparently aren't bothered by it at all, or he is incompetent because managing his family and job at the same time apparently renders him inable to do intellectually challenging stuff. Stuff, I might add, that scores of other people manage to do under similar circumstances, while not being filthy rich and having an army of people who can do menial tasks such as research and whatnot. The cognitive dissonance between saying that it's no big deal and that Guttenberg was simply "overworked" and then saying that he'll have a golden future and the country needs him never fails to amaze me. quote:He lied, but so what, that's part of the job and he didn't do it in office or about anything Otto Normalbuerger would give a poo poo about. So I guess it's OK to keep liars in office as long as they only lie about stuff Otto Normalbürger doesn't care about? What about me? I care about that lie, as did enough people to make it a big deal. But then I guess I'm not Otto Normalbürger. Shame.
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Nov 26, 2011 17:42
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Thank you, Grendels Dad. Exactly what I wanted to post. Someone who lies so easily and unecessarily (the Dr. title is pure luxury and prestige) is very likely to lie again in the future. And then it will be about things that could influence tens of millions of citizens negatively.
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Nov 26, 2011 17:46
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Hungry Gerbil posted:What the gently caress is wrong with you? You are ok with liars being in power. gently caress you.
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Nov 26, 2011 17:48
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Factor_VIII posted:His reputation has been tarnished and he has been forced to pay a fine and released by the court. If the public wants to vote for him they're entitled to do so. They are, but it's a crying shame that the public opinion is still guided by the image BILD and the like had created of him well before the scandal. His reputation might be tarnished, but he's still the golden boy, and the CSU is already rubbing their collective hands together in anticipation of his inevitable return.
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Nov 26, 2011 17:52
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Hungry Gerbil posted:Thank you, Grendels Dad. Exactly what I wanted to post. "You got a parking ticket? That means you'll PUSH THE RED BUTTON whenever you feel like it!". I get it that you're having problems with this guy because
Your correlation between misdeeds and other misdeeds is questionable. People aren't criminals for life because they did one minor thing once. I wonder what parties you're voting for and whether those guys are all clean and if not, whether you've been spending time looking up laws to throw at them. (And don't worry, I'm not going to vote for him. I just think it's always easy to get into righteous indignation mode when it's somebody who has different politics.)
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Nov 27, 2011 01:03
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He has a lovely character and no morals. That should be obvious right? I'm voting green, but I don't think that the Union is the evil or something. Guttenberg is still scum and I would love to see him thrown out of the CSU. Seehofer already isn't pleased with his current behaviour. And plagiarism in the academic world IS NOT equal to a parking ticket. You basically have to be a lovely person to do such a thing. And I don't want lovely persons to be in power. Hungry Gerbil fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Nov 27, 2011 |
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Nov 27, 2011 01:18
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Hungry Gerbil posted:He has a lovely character and no morals. That should be obvious right? Hungry Gerbil posted:I'm voting green, but I don't think that the Union is the evil or something. Hungry Gerbil posted:And plagiarism in the academic world IS NOT equal to a parking ticket. You basically have to be a lovely person to do such a thing. And I don't want lovely persons to be in power. And again, it'd sure be interesting to look up some Green politicians and their transgressions. Look, it's all okay and right now people are focusing on this guy, but your zeal against him is a little bit overblown. Just don't vote for him and move on.
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Nov 27, 2011 02:20
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In this case it's not about party, it's just about Guttenberg. He is a loving, slimy rear end in a top hat. Come on, he blatantly, obviously plagiarizes and still claims it was a mistake and not intentional. gently caress this guy. Edit: He also basically shat on everyone else doing a PhD in Germany right now. Hungry Gerbil fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Nov 27, 2011 |
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Nov 27, 2011 02:34
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Yes... plagiarism and lying politicians are the same as parking tickets because
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Nov 27, 2011 04:11
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flavor posted:From what I know about plagiarizing, its acceptance has greatly varied over history and it still varies between different cultures and different intellectual areas to the point where I'd be far from being so sure about someone's character based on just the fact that they've plagiarized something. Similar things could be said about the acceptance of marital rape and anyway, he's neither an immigrant nor a time traveler. But really, I think it's his inability of own up to his mistakes and the fact that the thinks he can fool the public with some lame excuses that ticks off people more than the actual plagiarizing. flavor posted:He also basically shat on everyone else doing a PhD in Germany right now. I got my PhD right around the time the scandal broke loose. All those jokes about my dissertation being plagiarized got old rather quickly. Not that they were anything but loving offensive in the first place.
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Nov 27, 2011 04:20
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elwood posted:If you want to know more about the german fascination with poo poo, read this: I like how he mentions his family takes huge dumps and wishes he could still have his Flachspüler. God those things are the stupidest idea ever created.
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Nov 27, 2011 04:38
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Broken Dictionary posted:Yes... plagiarism and lying politicians are the same as parking tickets because Hungry Gerbil posted:In this case it's not about party, it's just about Guttenberg. He is a loving, slimy rear end in a top hat. Come on, he blatantly, obviously plagiarizes and still claims it was a mistake and not intentional. gently caress this guy. Hungry Gerbil posted:He also basically shat on everyone else doing a PhD in Germany right now. Previously on GBS posted:Similar things could be said about the acceptance of marital rape Previously on GBS posted:and anyway, he's neither an immigrant nor a time traveler. But really, I think it's his inability of own up to his mistakes and the fact that the thinks he can fool the public with some lame excuses that ticks off people more than the actual plagiarizing. Previously on GBS posted:I got my PhD right around the time the scandal broke loose. All those jokes about my dissertation being plagiarized got old rather quickly. Not that they were anything but loving offensive in the first place.
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Nov 27, 2011 07:33
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The whole Dr. thesis thing was bad enough, but what reflected even worse on Guttenberg's character and abilities as a politician was, that he had neither the honesty to own up to his misdeeds, nor the foresight to see, that that might be the best course of action, since it was all bound to come out anyway. The funny thing is, if he had come out with the truth immediately, it would have done way less harm to his career. This way he just demonstrated how he is a lying, irrational and shortsighted piece of poo poo. Thats of course is not too different from the public image of most other politicians, so he will most likely have a great career on front of him.
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Nov 27, 2011 10:41
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flavor posted:There's an easy way to defuse that: Have the students or universities check dissertations through some online service or similar before they are officially submitted. That would send a clear message and nobody would need to be punished. They rubberstamped his dissertation, period. There's no point in discussion mechanisms to detect and/or deter plagiarism when these were circumvented in this case.
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Nov 27, 2011 10:51
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flavor posted:Your correlation between misdeeds and other misdeeds is questionable. People aren't criminals for life because they did one minor thing once. I wonder what parties you're voting for and whether those guys are all clean and if not, whether you've been spending time looking up laws to throw at them. Ah yes, the good old "other people do things wrong too"-defense. quote:From what I know about plagiarizing, its acceptance has greatly varied over history and it still varies between different cultures and different intellectual areas to the point where I'd be far from being so sure about someone's character based on just the fact that they've plagiarized something. I wouldn't say that the acceptance varied, just the knowledge and ability to care. If you know Bupkiss about academic work you are going to be a lot more accepting towards misdeeds in that field because you're more likely to equate it to some simpler structures known to you, like "cribbing in a math test in school". If you call that acceptance, whatever. quote:The whole Dr. thesis thing was bad enough, but what reflected even worse on Guttenberg's character and abilities as a politician was, that he had neither the honesty to own up to his misdeeds, nor the foresight to see, that that might be the best course of action, since it was all bound to come out anyway. Yes, this. The guy still has the nerve to euphemize his deeds as "mistakes" that happened because he was "under pressure", and that simply will not fly if he insists on having the image of the great greasy hope that will save German politics. Either he's a honest man, or he isn't. With the black-and-white image he himself created, it is really as simple as that.
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Nov 27, 2011 10:56
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flavor posted:Look, it's all okay and right now people are focusing on this guy, but your zeal against him is a little bit overblown. Just don't vote for him and move on. Our zeal against him is just a reaction to the blind devotion that big parts of the public had and still have for him. He was by far the most popular politician, and not because of anything he achieved politically. He wasn't judged by his actions like a normal politician but rather looked up to like a king. His followers were so impressed by the facade he built of an honest and upright statesman who tells it like it is that they dismissed any criticism from the beginning and ate up his most obvious and ridiculous lies without questioning them. And Guttenberg continues to prove that he also believes that he is the above all other politicians and the saviour of German politics, and that he's absolutely incapable of any form of self-criticism. What he's really good at is keeping up the myth that he made a silly mistake, admitted it, apologized for it and immediately took the right consequences. I'm not saying that Silvana Koch-Mehrin or Jorgo Chatzimarkakis are any better than him, but they're nowhere near as popular and important as Guttenberg. He still has so many supporters that it's a relief that even the likes of Seehofer, Dobrindt and Aigner are now telling him to have some decency and shut the gently caress up.
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Nov 27, 2011 13:10
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Ok, here I go. I'm going to say it: Guttenberg is a danger to Germany. He is already plannning to found his own party. We really don't know what's going on in his head.
Hungry Gerbil fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Nov 27, 2011 |
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Nov 27, 2011 13:45
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Hungry Gerbil posted:Ok, here I go. I'm going to say: Guttenberg is a danger to Germany. He is already plannning to found his own party. He should take Ronald Schill and Edmund Stoiber on board. The Worst Party.
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Nov 27, 2011 13:50
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He is the worst and most successful populist of them all. How dangerous he is depends on what his visions and plans are.
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Nov 27, 2011 13:52
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Hungry Gerbil posted:He is the worst and most successful populist of them all. How dangerous he is depends on what his visions and plans are. Holy gently caress dude, we get it, he's literally Hitler. Move on or something. Or at least focus on his actual political policies or past political conduct, because the "Everything he does is pure molten evil because he cheated in his dissertation!"-schtick is kinda getting old. On a non-related matter, I'm pleasantly surprised this new attempt at the Vorratsdatenspeicherung by means of NAZI TERRORISM!! is getting shot down fairly early as opposed to the last populist approach to gently caress with the internet after whatshername wanted to implement the infamous STOP-signs to combat the vast network of the german child porn industry. Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Nov 27, 2011 |
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Nov 27, 2011 13:56
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Stuhlmajor posted:Holy gently caress dude, we get it, he's literally Hitler. Move on or something. We don't know if he is evil yet. Up to now we only know that he is not a very competent politician. Depending on what his true political convictions are he is bound to be either one of the most directionless and lovely chancellors to date or in the worst case Hitler. He will probably just be an unbelievably incompetent head of government, but populism in all forms and the people who use it are still fundamentally anti-democratic. Hungry Gerbil fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Nov 27, 2011 |
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Nov 27, 2011 14:08
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Stuhlmajor posted:Holy gently caress dude, we get it, he's literally Hitler. Move on or something. It's more the potential Guttenberg has that is frightening than anything else. The cult of personality that has evolved around him is legitimately unsettling. And the apathy this affair is met with in the broad population when other politicians have been tarred and feathered over issues that are similarly minor is a good indicator that nobody really gives a gently caress about what he says, it's just that the guy saying it is cool in their book. And that is not a good thing.
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Nov 27, 2011 14:16
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Stuhlmajor posted:Holy gently caress dude, we get it, he's literally Hitler. Move on or something. He will be another Obama. A well spoken plutocratic hack with charisma and a silver tung.
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Nov 27, 2011 14:48
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Plankalkuel posted:He will be another Obama. A well spoken plutocratic hack with charisma and a silver tung. Except that nobody will call him a gay fake-American Muslim and in fact the German media outlets that would be most likely to do something like this would not take his cock out of their mouths.
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Nov 27, 2011 15:40
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Is it possible that the public doesn't mind the plagiarism, because they like how it undermines the authority of academia? It kind of substantiates the prejudice that everyone is doing it anyway, plus they're all smartypants so gently caress em. Basically liking him as a form of protest against elitism. If that makes any sense.
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Nov 27, 2011 16:33
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mike12345 posted:Is it possible that the public doesn't mind the plagiarism, because they like how it undermines the authority of academia? It makes sense in a really horrific way, since Guttenberg is the most elitist guy you could possibly do this with. If what you say is true they are liking a rich nobleman for sticking it to them Ivory Tower Intellectuals by being lazy.
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Nov 27, 2011 16:36
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Noble, wealthy people with political power are better human beings than those loving nerds.
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Nov 27, 2011 16:54
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Hungry Gerbil posted:but populism in all forms and the people who use it are still fundamentally anti-democratic. Take a step back and apply your statement to your posts about Guttenberg.
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Nov 27, 2011 18:06
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Grendels Dad posted:Except that nobody will call him a gay fake-American Muslim and in fact the German media outlets that would be most likely to do something like this would not take his cock out of their mouths. Why does that even matter? You think Obama and his presidency are going to be defined by a bunch of retards calling him a muslim jew nazi commie anti-christ?
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Nov 27, 2011 18:18
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flavor posted:You don't need to play that silly game, it was obvious hyperbole to emphasize a point. What game? You put up a bad car analogy as if the two situations are in an way comparable. You have to be a special kind of person to think that getting a speeding ticket is the same sort of wrongness, or whatever, as plagiarizing a phd and lying to the population of Germany.
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Nov 27, 2011 18:36
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hankor posted:Take a step back and apply your statement to your posts about Guttenberg. I don't see a connection. Maybe you could ecplain it to me.
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Nov 27, 2011 18:51
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Broken Dictionary posted:Why does that even matter? You think Obama and his presidency are going to be defined by a bunch of retards calling him a muslim jew nazi commie anti-christ? If it were up to the retards, yes. It's not up to them, yet. The poster I replied to brought up Obama because he's a "well spoken plutocratic hack with charisma and a silver tung", apparently just like Guttenberg. I merely tried to point out that Obama has many detractors that are way more retarded than Guttenberg's.
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Nov 27, 2011 18:54
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Grendels Dad posted:If it were up to the retards, yes. It's not up to them, yet. What exactly are you objecting to? I wasn't talking about the BS the team party dreams up.
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Nov 27, 2011 19:37
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Hungry Gerbil posted:I don't see a connection. Maybe you could ecplain it to me. You attack him for being populistic, being incompetent and basically holding all the evils of the world in the black gate to the abyss he claims is his heart. Your only argument is that he plagiarized his thesis, which might say something about his morale values but doesn't really say all that much about his politics, as a matter of fact you haven't said anything of substantial value about his politics and yet you seem to think you are making a compelling case against him when in fact you are using populistic generalizations which is a bit odd seeing your stance on populism.
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Nov 27, 2011 20:51
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