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I'm guessing it was either a bug or you needed more than +3 rep to do it. I can't say I've heard of that before, but AP is known for having a few rough spots here and there. I'm pretty sure you don't have to alienate Steven Heck as a handler to have another one as an option.
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Nov 20, 2011 19:53
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Just finished the game for the first time. I was a Freelancer > Spy who specialized in pistols and martial arts, with a side of assault rifles. Romanced Scarlet and Mina. Was raped by Sie. Jazz Fentondied. I cutscene-killed Leland and Westridge, nobody else Mina was on the boat with me at the end. Halbech collapsed after I exposed everything Senator Darcy pledged to investigate Alpha Protocol Any recommendation on what to try for my next playthrough?
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Nov 25, 2011 01:34
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Pure aggressive kill-em-all is always a blast for a second playthrough.
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Nov 25, 2011 09:40
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The newscaster summary at the end is pretty cool. I like how doing the obviously wrong thing can potentially have the better long-term outcome, like with Madison. When you have to choose between saving a girl you met a couple days ago, or saving dozens of people you've never met and some priceless artifacts, letting Madison die is obviously the right answer. Except it doesn't really turn out that way. If Madison dies she becomes a martyr, and Europe is still well on it's way to having a Patriot Act of their own -- you saved the museum but Halbrech pretty much gets what they wanted out of it. If Madison lives she still becomes a focal point as a survivor, and uses her influence to promote calm in the face of tragedy. More people died, but Halbrech is less likely to get the outcome they wanted. There is no right answer.
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Nov 25, 2011 12:59
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Angela Christine posted:There is no right answer. Alpha Protocol in five words.
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Nov 25, 2011 14:55
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Angela Christine posted:The newscaster summary at the end is pretty cool. I like how doing the obviously wrong thing can potentially have the better long-term outcome, like with Madison. When you have to choose between saving a girl you met a couple days ago, or saving dozens of people you've never met and some priceless artifacts, letting Madison die is obviously the right answer. Except it doesn't really turn out that way. If Madison dies she becomes a martyr, and Europe is still well on it's way to having a Patriot Act of their own -- you saved the museum but Halbrech pretty much gets what they wanted out of it. If Madison lives she still becomes a focal point as a survivor, and uses her influence to promote calm in the face of tragedy. More people died, but Halbrech is less likely to get the outcome they wanted. Minor correctionIt's not Europe that's getting a new version of the Patriot Act. I'm pretty sure it's the US that's getting it. The newscast says the law is being proposed in the US by Senator Darcy.
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Nov 25, 2011 16:51
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vulgey posted:Alpha Protocol in five words. Befriending Heck is always the right answer, even if it may not be the "right" answer.
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Nov 25, 2011 16:54
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Torsade de Pointes posted:Minor correctionIt's not Europe that's getting a new version of the Patriot Act. I'm pretty sure it's the US that's getting it. The newscast says the law is being proposed in the US by Senator Darcy. Are you talking about the stuff you can hear on TV when you're still in Saudi Arabia? Because that's just a campaign finance/lobbyist restriction bill. Marburg tells you the big point of Rome is to remind Europe of what fear is and realign the public discussion on security legislation.
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Nov 29, 2011 09:27
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Are you talking about the stuff you can hear on TV when you're still in Saudi Arabia? Because that's just a campaign finance/lobbyist restriction bill. Here's where I'm getting it from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiFRsfDC6S4&t=1m55s. It sure sounds to me like the law is getting proposed to the US legislature. I mean maybe Darcy can propose laws in Europe, but it doesn't sound like that's what's happening to me.
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Nov 29, 2011 16:36
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Whizbang posted:Befriending Heck is always the right answer, even if it may not be the "right" answer. If befriending Heck is wrong, I don't want to be right
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Nov 29, 2011 17:08
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Torsade de Pointes posted:Here's where I'm getting it from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiFRsfDC6S4&t=1m55s. It sure sounds to me like the law is getting proposed to the US legislature. I mean maybe Darcy can propose laws in Europe, but it doesn't sound like that's what's happening to me. That Madison Act is a separate event. Parker and Leland explain it quite clearly during the game that primary goal of the Rome attacks was to show Europeans that they're vulnerable to terrorism as well, thus making them enact some Patriot Act-esque legislation, which would increase Halbech profits via defense contracts and such. E: I should spoiler-tag this poo poo. Smol fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Nov 29, 2011 |
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Nov 29, 2011 17:49
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Is the lockpick minigame supposed to be done with a scroll wheel or something? If I do it by moving the mouse, it moves the locks so little that I end up pushing it up to the top of the screen and keep pushing up for a while. It moves so slow I've never successfully completed any of them with more than 3 things to move into place Can the lockpicking be taken down by an EMP? I forget
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Nov 29, 2011 19:25
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Smol posted:That Madison Act is a separate event. Parker and Leland explain it quite clearly during the game that primary goal of the Rome attacks was to show Europeans that they're vulnerable to terrorism as well, thus making them enact some Patriot Act-esque legislation, which would increase Halbech profits via defense contracts and such. I know what their goals are, but what their goals are and what actually occurs (according to the ending newscast)are not the same thing. If you listen to the newscast, it says she becomes some kind of figurehead for people in favor of stronger government regulations if she dies. It says nothing about what happens in Europe as a result of it. The new Patriot Act is being introduced in America. There's nothing to suggest that Europe is gonna do the same thing.
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Nov 29, 2011 19:37
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Torsade de Pointes posted:I know what their goals are, but what their goals are and what actually occurs (according to the ending newscast)are not the same thing. If you listen to the newscast, it says she becomes some kind of figurehead for people in favor of stronger government regulations if she dies. It says nothing about what happens in Europe as a result of it. The new Patriot Act is being introduced in America. There's nothing to suggest that Europe is gonna do the same thing. Ah, you're right. For some reason I thought we were discussing Halbech's goals, not what actually happens.
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Nov 29, 2011 19:42
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Francois Kofko posted:Is the lockpick minigame supposed to be done with a scroll wheel or something? If I do it by moving the mouse, it moves the locks so little that I end up pushing it up to the top of the screen and keep pushing up for a while. It moves so slow I've never successfully completed any of them with more than 3 things to move into place It's supposed to be done with the analog triggers on a 360 controller, and the speed they move doesn't really match up with the speed your mouse moves (much like the hacking minigame) - it's normal for the mouse to end up at the top or bottom of the screen. That said, I never had any problem with the lockpicking minigame at all, if anything it's much easier with a mouse than with a controller. If they're moving so slowly that you actually run out of time before you can ever try to them all in position, it shouldn't be doing that. quote:Can the lockpicking be taken down by an EMP? I forget Yes (IIRC the EMP disables the alarms attached to the lock and then Mike just smashes it).
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Nov 29, 2011 20:05
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Was reading up a bit on Chris Avellone's twitter and one interesting little tidbit was that he mentions the whole bit about Sis' locket was gonna be expanded upon in a possible sequel. I wonder how elaborate the plans for this sequel were, and where they were gonna take... everything that can happen in the first game.
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Dec 1, 2011 13:16
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Apparently G22 was going to be expanded upon, and he apparently left himself some room for Scarlet development.
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Dec 1, 2011 19:52
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Went back to playing this again today after a break. The subway missions are cool as balls.
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Dec 2, 2011 00:39
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Went back to playing this again today after a break. The subway missions are cool as balls. I think you mean cool as heck. 
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Dec 2, 2011 05:18
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Angela Christine posted:When you have to choose between saving a girl you met a couple days ago, or saving dozens of people you've never met and some priceless artifacts, letting Madison die is obviously the right answer. Except it doesn't really turn out that way. If Madison dies she becomes a martyr, and Europe is still well on it's way to having a Patriot Act of their own -- you saved the museum but Halbrech pretty much gets what they wanted out of it. If Madison lives she still becomes a focal point as a survivor, and uses her influence to promote calm in the face of tragedy. More people died, but Halbrech is less likely to get the outcome they wanted.
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Dec 2, 2011 05:25
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Smol posted:I think you mean cool as heck. Nothing is as cool as Heck.
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Dec 2, 2011 06:20
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Strudel Man posted:That outcome really doesn't make any sense, though. Even if you disregard the obvious fact that one nobody getting shot is a hell of a lot less of a martyr to terrorism than a whole museum with people in it, there's also the issue where if you defuse the bomb, there should be a ton of evidence that it wasn't actually a terrorist attack. At least, not in the sense that the anti-terrorism legislation was meant to suggest. Yeah, I wondered about that. According to one of their emails they did have some middle eastern corpses to leave behind, but with no explosion it would be obvious that those guys had been dead too long to have been involved in the museum plot. Even if VCI managed to evacuate all their own guys (and corpses) so that they aren't easily identified, there should be plenty of evidence that something odd happened.
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Dec 2, 2011 06:23
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Usual caveats that I've not read the entire thread, but I didn't see anything about this on the first couple of pages. I'd like to give this game a try, and I was wondering if any platform's version is considered significantly better than the others? Normally I'd have a slight predilection towards PC, but I've already got a 360 copy inherited from a friend who left town a while back. Assuming I'm generally happy with console controls, is there anything that might make me want to grab a Steam copy instead? God-awful console loading times, active mod community, anything like that?
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Dec 4, 2011 01:54
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NRVNQSR posted:Usual caveats that I've not read the entire thread, but I didn't see anything about this on the first couple of pages. Higher res textures on the PC version, but you're going to want to play it with a controller anyway.
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Dec 4, 2011 02:00
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Crappy Jack posted:Higher res textures on the PC version, but you're going to want to play it with a controller anyway. Related: Is there any fix for lock picking and hacking being loving godawful with a mouse? The only sensitivity I can realistically aim with makes lock picking basically impossible (it takes me moving my mouse about 15 feet to get them to visibly move) and hacking take the reactions of a loving mongoose. I beat my first playthrough by playing as a tech, but even that took buying a shitload of EMPs and I'd like to not have to do that on my new game.
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Dec 4, 2011 02:16
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Unoriginal Name posted:Related: Is there any fix for lock picking and hacking being loving godawful with a mouse? Yes. Using a controller. Really. The shooting is fine, but the minigames just plain were not designed for KB+M.
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Dec 4, 2011 02:21
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Crappy Jack has spoken only truths. Heed his words. Edit: vvv I think the trick is to imagine your mouse is a joystick sitting at center. Just by moving it up a little you've pushed the 'stick' up and only need to put it down again a little to put it back at center. I hope that makes sense. SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Dec 4, 2011 |
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Dec 4, 2011 02:23
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Unoriginal Name posted:Related: Is there any fix for lock picking and hacking being loving godawful with a mouse? Yes, and it is easy once you know the trick: move your mouse very slowly. The game wasn't designed for mouse control, so it doesn't register how fast you are moving your mouse, only what direction it is moving in. If you move your mouse fast you'll reach the end of your mouse pad, pick up your mouse to reposition it, move fast for a second, reposition, move fast, reposition, and repeat infinitely -- you run out of time because half the time your mouse is in the air being repositioned. If you barely move your mouse at all the tumblers in the lock move just as fast, but you don't need to reposition your mouse, so you finish in plenty of time.
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Dec 4, 2011 02:42
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Chaltab posted:Just finished the game for the first time. Who is Jazz Fenton? How do you fight Westridge and Marburg?
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Dec 4, 2011 02:57
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Crappy Jack posted:Yes. Using a controller. Really. The shooting is fine, but the minigames just plain were not designed for KB+M. Counterpoint: using a controller makes hacking slightly easier but lockpicking and shooting much harder. Of those, you'll be doing a lot more shooting than either lockpicking or hacking. You do not actually have to move the mouse 15' to get the hacking/lockpicking cursors to move at all, as Angela Christine explained, and once you realize this the increased precision makes lockpicking so much easier than with a controller that it's ridiculous. FlamingMoose posted:Who is Jazz Fenton? I would also like to know this. quote:How do you fight Westridge Operation Full Circle: Convince him that you're a threat not just to him personally or to Alpha Protocol in general but to the US as a whole, typically by meeting with Shaheed before OFC and telling him that you are prepared to betray the US if necessary. I think there are other ways you can get him to stay and fight you but I don't know how. quote:and Marburg? It depends on when. Operation Deus Vult: have a reputation for being a smug douchebag (ie: mostly Suave responses) and then consistently be a smug douchebag to Marburg whenever you meet him in Rome. If you don't have the reputation he'll assume you're a professional trying to get under his skin and won't let you get to him; if you do, he'll decide you really are that bad and will fight you to the death. Operation Full Circle: pretty sure that all you need to do here is not convince him to abandon Leland, and not tell Parker about events surrounding Madison and Marburg. You may also have to not convince Parker to turn coat and join you, but I'm not sure about that. I've never actually fought Marburg in the Greybox myself.
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Dec 4, 2011 03:32
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ToxicFrog posted:I would also like to know this. I guess it kind of looks like Madison? ToxicFrog posted:Operation Full Circle: pretty sure that all you need to do here is not convince him to abandon Leland, and not tell Parker about events surrounding Madison and Marburg. You may also have to not convince Parker to turn coat and join you, but I'm not sure about that. I've never actually fought Marburg in the Greybox myself. You can convince him to abandon Leland and still fight him. You just have to tell Parker about what he did to Madison. After Parker attacks him, he will realize that you betrayed him if you tried to convince him to abandon Leland. I think he will also stick around if you tell Marburg about Parker abandoning him. It might depend on whether he likes you or not if he fights you after murdering Parker.
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Dec 4, 2011 03:45
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Angela Christine posted:Yes, and it is easy once you know the trick: move your mouse very slowly. This is actually incredibly helpful, thank you. Also, gently caress controllers.
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Dec 4, 2011 04:05
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Angela Christine posted:Yeah, I wondered about that. According to one of their emails they did have some middle eastern corpses to leave behind, but with no explosion it would be obvious that those guys had been dead too long to have been involved in the museum plot. Even if VCI managed to evacuate all their own guys (and corpses) so that they aren't easily identified, there should be plenty of evidence that something odd happened. There is a part where Madison says something to the effect of We should take this evidence to the authorities and the player's only choice is to wave off her extremely sensible suggestion with either aggressive, sarcastic or professional dismissal. Once I found out VCI were dirty traitors I made a point of knocking out the first three for evidence then brutally killing the rest in the museum. And then throughout the level, there's all these computers you can hack with full on "yep we did it this is all us here in VCI all framing middle eastern terrorists" communications. Apparently I was incapable of forwarding any of that to the authorities either. Mike Thornton's agency in the game world was restricted to which cut scene the player selected for a handful of fairly ridiculous comic book type scenes. Which ridiculous comic book style character do you press the kill button for, and which do you not, unlocking the extra secret bit of dialogue? And do you kill any security guards on the way to that cutscene? Those are the player's choices, and all the real consequences build off of those. Mike Thornton just shows up where he is told to show up, and either kills or doesn't kill whatever stands between him and the objective. I liked Alpha Protocol a lot, and felt that much of it was a huge step forward in one player role play gaming. But there were huge problems, and not just with the stealth and shooting gameplay. The plot jarringly changed in tone between comic book / Tom Clancy / Ian Flemming sometimes in the course of the same mission, leaving the player unsure just what kind of spy universe logic one should base one's decisions on. And even within comic book / Iam Flemming territory, the plot was pretty nonsensical. If you take SIE as a handler for the Russian embassy, G22 assualt it for no clear reason. And yet, G22 will also deliver the sniper rifle to the roof for you to shoot their own agents. It's a pretty fascinating game, but a game with problems, and I think the general attitude of this thread may be a wee bit over-praisy. That said, all the spoilers and different directions in this thread did make me replay the game twice just to see it all, so mission accomplished. Best Friends fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Dec 4, 2011 |
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Dec 4, 2011 04:35
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Best Friends posted:There is a part where Madison says something to the effect of We should take this evidence to the authorities and the player's only choice is to wave off her extremely sensible suggestion with either aggressive, sarcastic or professional dismissal. Best Friends posted:I liked Alpha Protocol a lot, and felt that much of it was a huge step forward in one player role play gaming. But there were huge problems, and not just with the stealth and shooting gameplay. The plot jarringly changed in tone between comic book / Tom Clancy / Ian Flemming sometimes in the course of the same mission, leaving the player unsure just what kind of spy universe logic one should base one's decisions on. And even within comic book / Iam Flemming territory, the plot was pretty nonsensical. If you take SIE as a handler for the Russian embassy, G22 assualt it for no clear reason. And yet, G22 will also deliver the sniper rifle to the roof for you to shoot their own agents.
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Dec 4, 2011 05:14
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I do love people trying to piece the games plot into a coherent whole when it was written and re-written patchwork like by a bunch of different people who had little thought of causes and consequences beyond the dialog system.
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Dec 4, 2011 05:28
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Xander77 posted:I do love people trying to piece the games plot into a coherent whole when it was written and re-written patchwork like by a bunch of different people who had little thought of causes and consequences beyond the dialog system. I don't think the overarching plotlines are tied together very well, but I always felt like each mission hub was very well done. And honestly, inconsistencies or bumps in the road kinda fall away when the game so fully engages you in each and every conversation.
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Dec 4, 2011 05:44
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Torsade de Pointes posted:Her suggestion is to let the authorities handle it. Which you don't want to do for several potential reasonsYou want a shot at Marburg, you don't think the authorities can handle it, you don't think they can respond in time, they might not believe you, you want to try and gather additional evidence or leads to help you with your pursuit of Halbech, etc. Even in Alpha Protocol logic, a major city police force is going to do a better (and certainly more immediate) job of public security than a lone foreigner with no particular timetable. And when it comes to stopping great evil conspiracies done wheels within wheels Bond movie style, the lone agent's actions to stop it doing nothing to reveal/stop the conspiracy ("I guess I should have called the cops after all - who could have known!") was a inane and insane plot device whenever it was first tried in bad novels/scripts, however many centuries ago. It's a silly plot element, Mike Thornton had a silly response to it, and I the player had no choice but to go along with it. My decision making power as a player was limited to which stupid thing happened after a universe of stupid, forced decisions. That's pretty par for the course of video games, but on that Alpha Protocol did nothing to rise above the genre, and I think in many ways epitomized the genre's failings - contrived choices, limited overall agency, cartoon plots locked on rails. quote:I don't see how the plot is nonsensical. G22 are operating independently in Moscow and want to shut down the Halbech connection. They need to get to Surkov to find the information they need. If you don't work with them, then you're in the way of their mission. It seems pretty logical that they'd go after him on their own. Also, you pay for the sniper rifle dead drop in advance and it's set up ahead of the mission and when you make your decision to go with them or not. It's too late for them to pull it back. It was absolutely a (understandable, given how much was going on) storyline oversight. There was no reason they couldn't have picked that thing up with their one billion agents and super tech and perfectly timed operations and so on. And considering by the point they do it, Albatross and Mike Thornton could have been best buds, even with your explanation the G22 angle is very questionable. Best Friends fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Dec 4, 2011 |
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Dec 4, 2011 05:55
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Best Friends posted:"I don't care if it will ruin our mission. We have valid purchase order, and in G22 the customer is always satisfied." Heh. I see you edited it now.
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Dec 4, 2011 06:04
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Best Friends posted:My decision making power as a player was limited to which stupid thing happened after a universe of stupid, forced decisions. That's pretty par for the course of video games, but on that Alpha Protocol did nothing to rise above the genre, and I think in many ways epitomized the genre's failings - contrived choices, limited overall agency, cartoon plots locked on rails. What games would you consider to be better at this then? And I'm not doing this as a like, "omg don't talk trash in Alpha Protocol NOTHING IS BETTER" I'm just genuinely curious. I love Alpha Protocol and I think it's one of the best games I've ever played but I also completely realize that it has a shitton of flaws, and I can also understand why a ton of people really dislike it. So yeah just wondering.
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Dec 4, 2011 09:00
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In Training posted:What games would you consider to be better at this then? And I'm not doing this as a like, "omg don't talk trash in Alpha Protocol NOTHING IS BETTER" I'm just genuinely curious. I love Alpha Protocol and I think it's one of the best games I've ever played but I also completely realize that it has a shitton of flaws, and I can also understand why a ton of people really dislike it. I'm not trying to say this game is bad compared to its peers in that way. I'm just trying to say it wasn't that great. I see it generally presented in this thread as Best Game Ever, and it clearly had a ton of flaws. Even where this game did go above and beyond the standard (and was awesome for it), like all the complicated character and plot elements, were compromised by the issues of this game, in particular how the player could not be clear whether she was playing in a Tom Clancy novel or a comic book. I do see Alpha Protocol as pretty interesting. I don't see it as a game with a huge amount of choice, because it wasn't. There really wasn't all that much choice that actually happened. What made it special was in my mind how subtle some of those choices were, and how hidden they were from the player, making them seem organic and natural. You didn't know you could kill Marburg in Rome unless your character did a lot of fairly unusual, but perfectly naturally choosable things, and at no point was the player even aware they were making this decision until they play again and not be a sarcastic rear end all the time every time. That was pretty amazing to me. On balance, I like this game, but I feel the praise for it here is a bit much. Especially on the choice front. There was actually quite a limited amount of choice. It's just that that choice was presented in a very interesting way - it was generally kept hidden. Outside the choice front (and the context of your post), my criticism here is more pushing back on the I think overdone praise here in other regards.
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Dec 4, 2011 09:28
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