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Really the worst for me was not only most of the loot boring but also broken. Increased healing effects actually sounded pretty cool to equip on a tank except it didn't work. At all! :V
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Dec 6, 2011 04:39
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Armor-Piercing posted:Your problem with stats is also pretty exaggerated. Fighter-type classes have a higher max strength than other classes. It's poorly represented, sure, but the concept is simple enough. Constitution is also very straightforward: fighter-types continue seeing benefits above 16 CON. Other classes do not, but you aren't losing anything when you can just reroll for more stat points. Some stats aren't very useful, but it really is a very straightforward system. Strength for offense, dexterity and constitution for defense, and whatever casting stat your class uses. The sorcerer thing is a glitch, but you're right that that's a problem at least. You don't see the problem when any character can allocate up to 18 in Con but sees no benefit over 16? I didn't even know that, and I rerolled until I could give my characters 18 in their main stats and constitution. Guess all that time was wasted, since the character creation screen doesn't tell you in its description of Constitution that "any points in this over 16 are wasted unless you're a fighter!" I honestly have some real nostalgia about BG2 and the cool items, characters, and such, and didn't really like DA:O when I realized that wasn't my favorite kind of game. (The whole isometric tactical RPG thing.) So I won't even touch the writing. But trying to pretend that DA:O is mechanically a step backwards from BG2 is at best misinformed and at worst disingenuous. Things in DA:O did what they said they did and were well-labeled and straightforward. Yes, there are some pretty obscure problems (like increasing attack speed too much can cap out or mess you up, something like that), but they are mostly bugs or poorly implemented things, not intentional design choices. I will admit I do definitely miss that even +1 swords and the like had detailed and cool descriptions in BG and BG2. But there were broken items, broken spells, and broken classes all over the place. In DA:O, fighters and rogues weren't quite as strong as mages, and it was a mistake to include something like Arcane Warrior where a mage could fulfill a warrior's role. But in BG2 fighters were intentionally worse than any kind of spellcaster, and there was no real way to even pretend they were equivalent. (Especially if you started at BG2, where the wizard was past his early levels with very few spells and could start laying down spells for a whole encounter, then rest because why not?)
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Dec 6, 2011 21:24
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Fighters and thieves were far from useless in BG2 and IWD2, and I always made sure to roll with some. Once Throne of Bhaal popped up I completed most late-game encounters by casting Breach once and suddenly throwing out about forty attacks in a single round thanks to ridiculous epic feats, while I muscled my way through IWD2 with absolutely no problems whatsoever.
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Dec 6, 2011 21:36
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Stelas posted:Fighters and thieves were far from useless in BG2 and IWD2, and I always made sure to roll with some. Once Throne of Bhaal popped up I completed most late-game encounters by casting Breach once and suddenly throwing out about forty attacks in a single round thanks to ridiculous epic feats, while I muscled my way through IWD2 with absolutely no problems whatsoever. That's the point though... there's no way you could have done it without Breach, thanks to ridiculous spell defenses. A wizard absolutely could do it, especially in ToB thanks to the Summon Planetar spell that summons an invincible destroyer minion who is pretty much better than any fighter in every way.
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Dec 6, 2011 21:41
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Sounds like someone has never played a kensai/thief.
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Dec 6, 2011 21:43
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DA:O had one of the most satisfying backstab rogues I can remember. With the right loadout you would just wail into peoples backs at hyperspeed.
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Dec 6, 2011 21:46
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Zarick posted:That's the point though... there's no way you could have done it without Breach, thanks to ridiculous spell defenses. A wizard absolutely could do it, especially in ToB thanks to the Summon Planetar spell that summons an invincible destroyer minion who is pretty much better than any fighter in every way.
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Dec 6, 2011 22:17
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BG2 was a god drat amazing game. Probably one of the best games of all time and easily one of my top 10. However, the whole D&D combat system was awful, and horrible game design. Everything about it, the weird stat allocations, the turns and rounds, the multi/dual classes, the proficiencies, the spell system, the spell protections system, armor class and THAC0, everything, just supremely bad game design. RPG systems should be complex but not completely arcane and mystifying. Luckily the game itself was not that hard and there were plenty of NPCs to fight for you and you could get through just fine with a basic unkitted single-classes character. But all that other poo poo, jesus christ I'm glad they don't use D&D as a basis for WRPGs anymore.
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Dec 6, 2011 22:36
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Kensais are pretty awesome, unless by pure fighter you mean kit-less. But then, every kit-less class in BG2 sucks. I think the problem with discussion of BG2 on the internet is people talk about how awesome classes like mages and kensais are so much that people newer to the game get the impression that those are the only useful classes, when that isn't true at all. Yes, kensai/mages may be loving insane, but you can still have just as much fun, if not more so, as a blade, or a swashbuckler, or archer, or monk. There are 11 classes and 21 kits and only a couple of them are downright bad. But with a well balanced party you can kick rear end as every single one of them, even the ones that are downright bad.
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Dec 6, 2011 22:36
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Zarick posted:You don't see the problem when any character can allocate up to 18 in Con but sees no benefit over 16? Regardless, not specifying that information on the character creation screen is a problem of implementation, not a design decision, and so if you're willing to overlook similar problems in DA:O I don't see why you wouldn't do the same in this case. Also, it's entirely possible to take enemy casters without using breach. Inquisitors aside, you can also overwhelm defenses like stoneskin pretty quickly if you focus on individual enemies, and thieves (particularly assassins) can ruin a caster with a single backstab if you sneak in first. Breach is mostly so your own casters can use other offensive spells.
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Dec 6, 2011 22:46
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Armor-Piercing posted:Also, it's entirely possible to take enemy casters without using breach. Inquisitors aside, you can also overwhelm defenses like stoneskin pretty quickly if you focus on individual enemies, and thieves (particularly assassins) can ruin a caster with a single backstab if you sneak in first. Breach is mostly so your own casters can use other offensive spells. Improved Mantle? Fireshield? Blade Barrier? Invisibility? Mislead? Time Stop? BG2 is the game of wizard combat, there's no two ways about it.
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Dec 6, 2011 23:14
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I hate wizards. I was able to beat all but two battles in BG2 without relying on arcane spell casting. Both those battles were optionals: the Demi-lich and the big group of guys in the pocket dimension. ToB was another matter, but I was sick to poo poo of the game by that point and just set the difficulty to "Hold my hand, please." Edit: Actually, with the pocket dimension battle I think I just Creeping Doomed the fuckers to death. So still no wizards involved. Twiggy Johnson fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Dec 6, 2011 |
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Dec 6, 2011 23:45
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Lt. Danger posted:Improved Mantle? Fireshield? Blade Barrier? Invisibility? Mislead? Time Stop? I'm not claiming that wizards aren't incredibly useful for the player and quite dangerous to fight, but they are neither necessary nor invincible. Also, the only thing I even said in that post was that you can deal with them without casting Breach.
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Dec 6, 2011 23:53
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Lt. Danger posted:Improved Mantle? Fireshield? Blade Barrier? Invisibility? Mislead? Time Stop? Yeah. People seem kind of surprised by this assessment but being "wizard combat" has pretty much been a staple of every edition of D&D before 4e. Nostalgia is really, really strong with this game though.
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Dec 7, 2011 00:50
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Megaflare posted:Yeah. People seem kind of surprised by this assessment but being "wizard combat" has pretty much been a staple of every edition of D&D before 4e. Nostalgia is really, really strong with this game though.
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Dec 7, 2011 01:32
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Most non unique and non high level enemies weren't worth looting either in BG2. I think some of you may have nostalgia glasses on regarding BG2. It's not BG1 since you will find your first +1 and even +2 items in the first tutorial dungeon and it's not very exciting regardless. What BG2 DID have were tons of unique named items from named enemies and quests. Also while loot on your average yuan-ti or kobold or imps are dull and not very exciting at all, what was exciting was all those tinkets and toys you see in the bazaars of the first town so you would pick up all loot regardless just so you could sell them all and one day hope to buy those sweet rear end robes. The highest bonus you could get in BG1 was, I think, +3, and that was amaaaazing. In BG2 all the excitement is with the +4 and +5, but you're right, standard enemy loot wasn't exciting. In DA though, no loot is exciting. It's just...bonus to parameters. And special effects that didn't work. Getting mirrored robes (or whatever) that pinged back beholder spells, equipment that came with special abilities to activate 1/2/3 times a day, that was awesome.
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Dec 7, 2011 01:38
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That recommend me a JRPG thread got me thinking about Lunar, and I'm curious, which of the 2 good Lunar games do you guys like better? I think I like Lunar 2 better. I liked the characters better, the story better, I think it's even a longer game. But it's been so long since I played them I barely remember.
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Dec 7, 2011 03:20
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2 by miles. The first one kinda plods along and there's no real variation in battle.
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Dec 7, 2011 03:23
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Conduit for Sale! posted:That recommend me a JRPG thread got me thinking about Lunar, and I'm curious, which of the 2 good Lunar games do you guys like better? Lunar 2 is pretty much inarguibly the best of the lot. Shame about the remake.
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Dec 7, 2011 03:26
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ImpAtom posted:Lunar 2 is pretty much inarguibly the best of the lot. Shame about the remake. Was the PSX remake that bad? Never played the original, but the PSX version was pretty fun, excluding the huge slog in the post-game content.
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Dec 7, 2011 19:21
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rkajdi posted:Was the PSX remake that bad? Never played the original, but the PSX version was pretty fun, excluding the huge slog in the post-game content. No, I mas mistaken. I meant to type "sequel." (Dragon Song.)
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Dec 8, 2011 05:22
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Now that Tecmo owns Gust could the time be right for the sequel fans have been demanding far more than even Chrono Trigger 2, Tecmo Secret of the Stars 2?
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Dec 8, 2011 18:33
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Conduit for Sale! posted:Kensais are pretty awesome, unless by pure fighter you mean kit-less. But then, every kit-less class in BG2 sucks. this is not true I played a monk in BG2 and it was utterly miserable in the early and mid game because my character was a useless weakling who died frequently causing game overs. It was a lot of fun later on but goddamn I wish I had picked a wizard instead.
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Dec 8, 2011 19:00
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Let's talk Guild 2. For a lack of better place to post this, I suppose a RPG thread might be a place where lot of folks that played it would gather and increase the chances that I might find what I am looking for. Guild 2 was badly butchered at release and after several expansions and patches, there came to be a few mods that allegedly improved the experience and restored some features that were available in the first installment. I say allegedly, because it seems that those mods fuckin disappeared after the fall of the official forums and are nowhere to be found. My mind boggles. I created a thread on the Guild 2 Steam subforum in which I am looking for people who might be in possession of these mods and are willing to share them with people, because holy gently caress. Mods: Back to the Roots and Sovereign Mod and music addy pack. More info in the Steam thread here.
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Dec 8, 2011 20:48
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Has anyone here played Magna Carta 2 or Infinite Undiscovery? Neither of them really seem to get much praise or mention at all really. However, I'm really craving something similar to FF XII. Are those games playable, and if not, then what are some better options?
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Dec 8, 2011 21:02
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Death By Yogurt posted:Has anyone here played Magna Carta 2 or Infinite Undiscovery? Neither of them really seem to get much praise or mention at all really. However, I'm really craving something similar to FF XII. Are those games playable, and if not, then what are some better options? MC2 is actually pretty good. It's very pretty and the combat system is rather fun. The story is pretty basic RPG stuff but entertaining. Infinite Undiscovery on the other hand - I could never get into the game. I always get to the first town where you pick up those weird twins then drop the game for something more interesting. I just never "felt" the game.
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Dec 8, 2011 21:28
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Levantine posted:MC2 is actually pretty good. It's very pretty and the combat system is rather fun. The story is pretty basic RPG stuff but entertaining. This. It's also comparable to Xenoblade in how it manages to avoid most jRPG bullshit (probably because it's actually Korean). Apart from the mainly rubbish story I guess. It's a million times better than the awful first game.
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Dec 8, 2011 21:36
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Death By Yogurt posted:Has anyone here played Magna Carta 2 or Infinite Undiscovery? Neither of them really seem to get much praise or mention at all really. However, I'm really craving something similar to FF XII. Are those games playable, and if not, then what are some better options? Magna Carta 2 is leagues better than the first PS2 game. It's a bit on easy side and the character animations aren't that fluid. You can swap control between party members mid-battle - it's actually a part of the combat's combo system. Slightly above average kRPG/jRPG. Infinite Undiscovery had an interesting open-world battle system when it was released. You only control the main character while the rest of the party is AI controlled. Sure, you can run up to a party member every once in a while to give them a command, but for the most part they're on autopilot. The party AI ranges from barely passable to braindead at times. If you can look past the unsettling character design (oh god), it's still an average game at best. I never finished it despite putting 20+ hours into it. Of those two games, IU is more similar to FFXII than MC2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlHZrBUimuY Gyoru fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Dec 8, 2011 |
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Dec 8, 2011 22:06
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Soooo did they reprint Hyperdimension Neptunia? It's $30 at Gamestop now, for a new copy. I don't know who wanted this, but it happened somehow. If you are not familiar, the premise is that the whole game is an allegory of the video gaming industry with the big players represented by what else than half-naked anime girls with magic powers. It sounds like it's a pretty lovely game overall but if anyone has played it or has any other insight on it, feel free to share. Edit: I noticed this too . . . Gamestop has Atelier Totori for $40 new, $35 used which is the best price out there for the game ATM. I have yet to beat it but it's a fun cute game that's gotten pretty good feedback from everyone. HondaCivet fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Dec 9, 2011 |
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Dec 9, 2011 09:05
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HondaCivet posted:If you are not familiar, the premise is that the whole game is an allegory of the video gaming industry with the big players represented by what else than half-naked anime girls with magic powers. It sounds like it's a pretty lovely game overall but if anyone has played it or has any other insight on it, feel free to share. It's a bad game and a lot of the humor comes from "hey do you remember (X company/brand/system) well here it is and it has glowing anime boobies" and that is the entire joke. There is a sequel in the works and its scathing satire continues in that Keiji "Megaman" Inafune's picture is now a summon in the game. This is the only selling point they've pulled out for HDN2. Do not buy either they are awful games with no redeeming qualities.
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Dec 9, 2011 09:09
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Syrg Sapphire posted:It's a bad game and a lot of the humor comes from "hey do you remember (X company/brand/system) well here it is and it has glowing anime boobies" and that is the entire joke. It's substantially better once you get out of the intro areas where they front-load most of the terrible stuff, and when you realise that each land's plotline is very roughly a swipe at each console's biggest problems, but the bar still isn't set particularly high and you need to be a certain type of jRPG masochist (i.e. the type that can stand Idea Factory games, basically) to really get any substantial leverage out of it.
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Dec 9, 2011 10:21
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Stelas posted:It's substantially better once you get out of the intro areas where they front-load most of the terrible stuff, and when you realise that each land's plotline is very roughly a swipe at each console's biggest problems, but the bar still isn't set particularly high and you need to be a certain type of jRPG masochist (i.e. the type that can stand Idea Factory games, basically) to really get any substantial leverage out of it. Please don't lie. It's not nice Hyperdimension Neptunia is a gigantic pile of poo poo that is pretty much the shining example of everything that is wrong with JRPGs. I wish I could travel back in time and stop myself from buying that crud.
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Dec 9, 2011 16:02
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'Substantial' might be the wrong word, it's true. Maybe 'surprisingly'. I'll happily admit you have to be morbidly fascinated by terrible things to really get into it. Also, at least it doesn't start with 'Agarest'. Why can't we have good PS3 RPGs? Ni no Kuni, Tales of Graces, where are you already?! 
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Dec 9, 2011 16:09
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HondaCivet posted:Edit: I noticed this too . . . Gamestop has Atelier Totori for $40 new, $35 used which is the best price out there for the game ATM. I have yet to beat it but it's a fun cute game that's gotten pretty good feedback from everyone.
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Dec 9, 2011 17:29
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Syrg Sapphire posted:There is a sequel in the works and its scathing satire continues in that Keiji "Megaman" Inafune's picture is now a summon in the game. This is the only selling point they've pulled out for HDN2. Actually I'm pretty sure the selling point is that now the girls aren't just dancing around the idea of being lesbians, they actually are lesbians and getting them to kiss and stuff is actually some sort of gameplay mechanic. No I'm not making this up.
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Dec 9, 2011 17:32
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Rascyc posted:What's the challenge level on this game? I've never tried an Atelier game but the graphic style and characters have me interested. A handful of generic reviews on metascore basically just have an "Extremely Easy" label on it with no elaboration. The combat is very variable; like most Gust games it's possible to dramatically trick yourself out, but in Atelier Totori you can accidentally wander into high level areas if not careful and set yourself back some progress. Overall, it's fairly easy, especially in the mid-game where you'll most likely stomp anything around. The game as a whole, it depends based on how well you can organize your time and plan your jobs around each other. If you're the sort of person to plot out the next month's adventuring trip so you hit a half-dozen hotspots and get a ton of points, you'll find it much easier. It's still perfectly possible to play whimsically, though, and that can be just as satisfying. Basically it's hard to really say for sure because it's not in any way a conventional RPG with conventional scaling. It's an open world that you can, if you really wish, throw bombs at all day.
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Dec 9, 2011 17:50
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You can most definitely play it whimsically but if sperging and ocding about time schedules is fun to you then you can also most definitely play it like that. The game is not hard at all as long as you remember you're playing as someone who crafts items and her main contribution to any fights is her ability to use items. Never leave home without a bunch of miniature snowmen to slay dragons and giant monsters with.
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Dec 9, 2011 19:26
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Actually I'm pretty sure the selling point is that now the girls aren't just dancing around the idea of being lesbians, they actually are lesbians and getting them to kiss and stuff is actually some sort of gameplay mechanic. No I'm not making this up.  What is wrong with japan.  In less depressing news, those of you with macs and a like of old-school western-style RPGs might be interested to know that the Avernum remake is coming out... soonish. (Those of us with windows, or if you want the iPad version, will have to wait for a while, in a disappointing but entirely unsurprising development.)
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Dec 9, 2011 20:29
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Zereth posted:In less depressing news, those of you with macs and a like of old-school western-style RPGs might be interested to know that the Avernum remake is coming out... soonish. (Those of us with windows, or if you want the iPad version, will have to wait for a while, in a disappointing but entirely unsurprising development.) I would be more upset with this if he hadn't sold me 6 games on Steam in the past few months that I've still gotta go through, and this'll probably end up there too in the end. I think I can wait a little for the amount of convenience he's giving me.
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Dec 9, 2011 20:33
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Syrg Sapphire posted:I would be more upset with this if he hadn't sold me 6 games on Steam in the past few months that I've still gotta go through, and this'll probably end up there too in the end.  until I remembered I still need to get off my rear end and beat Avadon and also I have Geneforge 4-6 to finish. (Plus, since I own Avernum 1 from him already, I can get Avernum: Escape from the Pit half off when he releases it initially!  )
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Dec 9, 2011 20:43
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