|
Awesome, thanks for the feedback guys! I think me calling 3 bets with middle/low pairs are a leak then given how you guys have commented on the 88 hand. I'll see how that goes. A few more from just now: MP ($5.26) CO ($8.90) Hero (Button) ($5) SB ($5.74) BB ($5) UTG ($2.21) Preflop: Hero is Button with A  , 3 3 folds, Hero bets $0.15, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold Flop: ($0.35) 5 , 4 , A (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.20, SB calls $0.20 Turn: ($0.75) 9 (2 players)SB bets $0.05, Hero raises to $0.45, SB raises to $0.85, Hero folds Total pot: $1.65 | Rake: $0.08 Villain is 60/5, but I'm still really confused by the turn action. I ended up folding because I think at the time I put him on all higher aces and other hand that beats us. Should I have called and re-evaluate on the river? BB ($2.44) UTG ($8.28) Hero (MP) ($5.28) CO ($5.65) Button ($5.77) SB ($4.75) Preflop: Hero is MP with Q  , A1 fold, Hero bets $0.15, 1 fold, Button calls $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.10 Flop: ($0.60) 8 , 8, 7 (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks Turn: ($0.60) Q (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold River: ($1.10) J (2 players)SB checks, Hero checks Total pot: $1.10 | Rake: $0.05 I want to say I didn't cbet because it's a 4-way flop but maybe I should have since I had the ace of hearts and that takes away all the nut flush draws. Did I miss value by checking the river? Button ($5.71) SB ($10.36) Hero (BB) ($5) UTG ($2.79) MP ($8.73) Preflop: Hero is BB with A , JUTG calls $0.05, 1 fold, Button bets $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20, 1 fold Flop: ($0.57) K , 7, 5 (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $0.33, Hero calls $0.33 Turn: ($1.23) 3 (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks River: ($1.23) 8 (2 players)Hero bets $0.55, Button calls $0.55 Total pot: $2.33 | Rake: $0.11 I didn't believe his c-bet (Villain was something like 40/30) so when the turn checked through I was okay with betting the river for value(?), standard? Hero (MP) ($5.79) Button ($1.86) SB ($4.86) BB ($12.92) UTG ($3.67) Preflop: Hero is MP with 3 , AUTG calls $0.05, Hero bets $0.20, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.15 Flop: ($0.47) 6 , 4, K (2 players)UTG bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10 Turn: ($0.67) K (2 players)UTG bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10 River: ($0.87) A (2 players)UTG bets $3.27 (All-In), Hero folds Total pot: $0.87 | Rake: $0.04 History: This guy took the exact line the hand before, donking all the way up until the river when he made a small bet with a spiked pair. So I was actually quite happy calling him down with ace high until that happened. What could you realistically put on a villain that spazzes out like this?
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 09:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 16:46 |
|
|
Edit: vvv you're right, I am dumb, ignore my comments. Maugrim fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Dec 4, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 11:14
|
|
|
Maugrim posted:These are stakes I play (pretty badly) so I don't really feel qualified to comment, but the first hand looks poor to me. A3 is fine for stealing but 7.5xBB is enormous. It looks like these are 5nl hands so he's opening for 3x. hand 1 is good. hand 2 bet river hand 3 is way too thin on river. You're getting value from what A9 and AT? Just check. hand 4-just fold the flop at 5nl. AARO fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Dec 4, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 12:19
|
|
|
Villain was a 13/11 nit, who has 4 bet a whopping 1/65 times and folded to 92% of 3 bets. Can I find a fold on this river? As soon as he flatted the 3 bet I was pretty sure his range consisted of 1010/jj/AK and possibly but very unlikely AA/KK. On flop I'm pretty sure he folds out AK, being a nit and all. The turn I think is still a call even though it nuts his 1010, because he could be trying to protect his JJ vrs AK and spades and with a ten on board that leaves twice as many combos as of jj then 1010. On the river im getting shoved into my a nit getting slightly better then 2/1 in a 3 bet pot at NL25. Can I fold? I really really wanted to? But I realize I also have a bit of a comfirmation bias going on here. Also I have no reads one if this guy value shoves over pairs in this spot. MERGE_GAME #4471102900501: Holdem NL $0.10/$0.25 12/05/2011 14:38:32 Table Tijuana (44711029) Seat 1: JJgetsCARDS ($29.68 in chips) Seat 2: TimBiakabatuka ($25.00 in chips) DEALER Seat 3: LastFlowers ($40.63 in chips) Seat 4: nenezen ($8.75 in chips) Seat 5: ISTHISREALLIFE ($44.36 in chips) Seat 6: AAtobill ($25.25 in chips) LastFlowers: Post SB $0.10 nenezen: Post BB $0.25 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to LastFlowers [Qd Qh] ISTHISREALLIFE: Fold AAtobill: Raise $0.75 JJgetsCARDS: Fold TimBiakabatuka: Fold LastFlowers: Raise $2.25 nenezen: Fold AAtobill: Call $1.50 *** FLOP *** [2d 5s 7c] LastFlowers: Bet $3.12 AAtobill: Call $3.12 *** TURN *** [Ts] LastFlowers: Check AAtobill: Bet $5.49 LastFlowers: Call $5.49 *** RIVER *** [7d] LastFlowers: Check AAtobill: Allin $14.39 LastFlowers: Call $14.39 *** SUMMARY *** AAtobill: Shows [Tc Th] LastFlowers: Shows [Qd Qh] AAtobill: wins $48.22
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 21:13
|
|
|
I wouldn't 3bet any premiums pre vs a guy who folds 92% of the time. But I would be 3betting almost every single one of his opens, oh my god. Bet/fold turn. Bet/fold river. If your range is right you beat 6 combos of JJ, lose to 3 combos of TT, and lose to X combos of AA/KK, as long as X is less than 3 you're good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 21:41
|
|
|
Yeah, I thought about the hand today at work and realized check calling is the worst way to play it. Given that I miss value the from the JJ if he checks behind with it , and get stacked by the full house every time he has 10s. I had been 3 betting the guy a ton, but one question. If I'm not 3 betting premiums should I care if my range is unbalanced entirely towards trash?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2011 07:43
|
|
|
VoiceOfIntuition posted:Hey guys, so I've been getting back into poker over the Christmas break and I'd like to start reviewing hands so if you guys don't mind giving a little bit of feedback on the hands I'm going to post that'd be nice: I just wanted to comment on the first hand from your other post, because no one did other than to say "fine". And really, there's not anything wrong with how you played this hand, but I'm barreling this turn and shutting down if called. Think about it for a second. He flats in the cutoff and calls a raise. You give us no info on how he plays-- PFR and whatnot-- but if he has average stats with a normal PFR range, failing to raise from the CO six-handed would weight his range to speculative hands. You see the limp/call constantly against middling to low pairs. His range includes a lot of other hands-- broadways, suitcons, rag aces-- but those are high on the list. After your flop bet, his most likely hands (guessing for normal players at these stakes) are a pair with a random club, a flush, two pair or better with no flush draw, the naked king of clubs, or a weak ace. I see people flat here all the time with the intention of taking a stab later if you show weakness. (That's admittedly less likely at these stakes, but hey.) A lot of players like to call with a club-less made hand and just check to see if they can fade a club on the turn and reevaluate. Some players are just never folding the K here. A float with a low to middling pair with a club is still very possible here; if you're c-betting without a club, they could be ahead now, or they could have a redraw if they're not. If he's aggressive, he might call with a small pair just because he recognizes the fold equity he'll pick up on any club turn. Slowplaying a flush is also possible, but if it's a flush with middling to low suited connectors, they should be raising to protect against one-card draws. If he does have a club, the turn means he now has the better hand. But look at the board. The ace, king, and jack of clubs are all accounted for. That makes a middling to low pair much more likely in his starting range. All K hands are eliminated, which means he wasn't chasing a naked 4-card nut draw. His weak aces are now probably folding even if they have a club, just because his preflop action makes big aces unlikely. Two pair is probably folding here as well, and he might fold sets depending on the bet and his nittiness level. Smallish pairs are still a big part of his range, and though anyone with a club just got there, a ton of hands that are killing you may fold to a bet. The Q and T are probably the only cards we have to worry about calling, because barreling the turn carries the threat of a river bet behind it, and really, all it takes is one card to have the nuts here and be able to bet with impunity. Any hand your opponent has that doesn't feature the Q is likely to appreciate that vulnerability.On the flip-side, checking this turn almost always means you're shutting down because you have no club. That allows the villain to just jack you with position because your calling range is ridiculously small. Well, on a board like this, his calling range is probably ridiculously small, too. Given that most of the good clubs are accounted for, I'm firing on this turn and not putting another cent into the pot if raised or called. Again, check/folding here is reasonable as well, but I prefer to barrel because there is so much in his range that folds here, but that he can turn into a bluff if you check to him because, in essence, the turn already turned everything that's NOT a flush into a bluff. So, bluff with your pair first and don't give him the chance. If it doesn't work, you're never, ever losing another cent beyond your turn bet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2011 07:47
|
|
|
VoiceOfIntuition posted:
Hand one is fine. Talking yourself into a call here is generally a tremendously bad idea. You rarely see 3-bets postflop at these stakes, and you see them as bluffs even more rarely. Usually this is a bet of "HOLY poo poo I'VE GOT HIM!" Hand two is a clear value bet. Checking here is a HUGE leak. Pots are biggest at the river, and since bets are generally made as fractions of the pot, river bets are typically the biggest bets you're going to make or call. That has a major effect on your bottom line. If you're not value betting TPTK here, what ARE you gonna value bet with? He could have plenty of hands that calling, and his line is never gonna be sandbagging with a big hand unless the guy has loving brain cancer. Go ahead and charge him. Hand three is interesting contrast with hand two. Here, you "value bet" with AJ unimproved. If you're really value betting there, it's WAY too thin. If your idea was "his turn check indicates that his c-bet was weak, so make I can steal here", I really don't like that line, either. If you think the guy is weak, check-raise his c-bet on the flop and take control of the hand. It's a nice, ragged flop for it. Check-calling, checking the turn, and then firing the river doesn't really show any sort of real strength, and you're gonna get looked up by any piece or pocket pair, depending on the player. In hand four, what are you doing? From your history with the villain, it sounds like your plan is to let him bluff and build a pot, and you call him down at the river for bonus nachos. This is a terrible flop for that plan. You have no flush draw, so a lot of his random hands have good equity against you. A flush card is gonna hit by the river about a third of the time, which ruins your whole plan. At the river, there's a very good chance he's bluffing just because you practically never have anything to call with the way you played the hand, and because when you saw him donk to the river and actually MAKE a hand, he bet small. That said, I think you're too deep to hero call an overbet like this at the river. If the guy's that bad, you'll find a better spot against him later, so just be patient. Edit: I'm already a double-posting human being, so I'll just edit in more for the Abortionator's hand. Basically, Ranma's got it covered here. TheAbortionator posted:I had been 3 betting the guy a ton, but one question. If I'm not 3 betting premiums should I care if my range is unbalanced entirely towards trash? In response to this, no, you shouldn't care-- if he's folding to 3-bets 92% of the time. Balanced play and optimal play against a specific opponent aren't generally the same thing. Balance is about deception, and sacrificing expectation on some hands in return for greater expectation on other hands. You've found something highly exploitable against this opponent, so exploit the hell out of it. Just be sure your 3b range stays balanced against OTHER players, because they're probably going to see you 3-bet the nit a lot and assume that you just do that to everyone (at least at first). Stay more balanced with the rest of the table because they're likely to misread you, and be ready to change gears if you see your nit adjusting to being exploited. You might also be forced to change gears if someone else realizes what you're doing and starts cold 4-betting when you raise the nit. AmnesiaLab fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Dec 6, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2011 08:17
|
|
|
Hand 1 SB $4.59 Hero T 9 BB $4.00UTG $12.49 CO $7.79 BTN $4.65 5-handed NL4, just sat down UTG calls $0.04 CO folds BTN raises to $0.16 SB folds Hero? Just sat down. I figured if I call, UTG will call as well, which is ok for us?? Should I be 3betting instead? Folding is the worst of the 3 options, right? Hero calls UTG calls Flop (~$0.45ish) K 94 I check with the intention of calling flop if BTN cbets, but probably shutting down on almost any turn. Maybe we could call turn on a blank?check/check/check Turn J Thought about betting. check/check/check River 3 I don't think anyone is calling with worse if we bet multiway. I check, and would check/call vs either player, since I expect us to have the best hand almost always but unable to get worst to call. Bluffcatching, I guess, hoping they feel like stabbing river.check/check/check ---------------------------------------- Hand 2 SB Hero A T $3.93BB $13.35 UTG $7.53 CO $3.97 BTN $4.50 UTG folds CO folds BTN raises to $0.12 Hero? I flatted instead of 3betting to keep his worse aces and tens in, but I'm not sure if this is correct. Hero calls BB folds Flop: 5 27chk/chk Turn: 6 Hero checks BTN bets $0.12 Hero? He checked back flop, which to me means he either hit a set, has a weak pair (33, 44, 66), or maybe something like Ax?? I figured he'd be cbetting this flop with all of his air, so I'm a bit scared by his flop check. Check/raising seems like it could be an option, but I think we only really fold out 33/44/66. I call on the offchance we have the best hand right now + our possible 6 outs, but this might be a mistake? Hero calls River: 9 Hero checks Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Dec 8, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2011 22:58
|
|
|
Hand 1: Fold pre or 3bet. Check/fold flop oop with one person still to act. Lead turn. Hand 2: I like leading this flop as you aren't going to want to be check/raising too often and often your continuing hands are going to be weak so that multiple barrels will get you off your hand so I hate check/calling. So by leading small pairs and overcards with backdoor draws you can have a good continuing range on most turn cards. As played check/fold turn. In both hands you are playing out of position with marginal hands, hoping to call one bet and get to showdown... Thats a good way to bleed money. Play out of position less.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2011 23:32
|
|
|
Blinky2099 posted:I don't think anyone is calling with worse if we bet multiway. I think you have the best hand here most of the time, and you will be amazed at what people will call you with. Especially when you lead out on a 3 of spades after checking twice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2011 07:43
|
|
|
http://cakepoker.eu/en/HandHistory?Hand=xszEwsTFxsbExsTExMbNwojGxsfCw8fE Is this a really spewy river call? Villain was playing TAG up till this point but his line made no sense to me. For what it's worth, he instashipped river and I don't think he was the type to value bet thin in a 3bet pot like this with 99 and there were a ton of draws that missed. I don't think he'd even value bet AJ there by shipping the river so I think his range is heavily tilted towards bluffs and maybe flushes and sets I guess? I don't think he'd turn a low pair like 56 into a bluff here because he'd put me on AK or something and just want to get to showdown as well. This call was totally inspired by JCarver's new Cake videos btw seniorservice fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Dec 11, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 04:51
|
|
|
Cbetting the flop seems way better than checking back and trying to bluff catch. e: the river call is probably fine, reads would but very important here, but it certainly looks like he wants you to fold. The J is a good river card for you because it takes AJo out of his range that beats you, he would most likely bet smaller with that hand now that he hit TP. If the river is a deuce it becomes trickier, you are in a spot where you could be losing to a good amount of his bluffs like AJ,AQ, and splitting with AT. ZeroStar fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Dec 11, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 07:45
|
|
|
I just got back from one of my worst live sessions and here is one of the hands I had some trouble with. These are all from a full $2/5 game. I'm sitting with about $300 in front of me, villain has me covered and I pick up A K UTG. I raise it to $20 and I get a caller from MP and the button. Pot is $60 and the flop comes A62. I bet out $35, MP calls and button folds. Pot is $130 and turn comes A. I bet out $55 and villain raises to $130, I call. Pot is $390. River comes the 4. I check, he shoves and I tank for about 2 minutes trying to figure out if there is any hand he's betting here that I can beat and I eventually fold.When that turn card hit I was kind of lost on what to do, I have trips with top kicker but should the flush getting there prevent me from betting? I feel like if I always check here I am losing value from weaker aces and pocket pairs between 7s and 10s. And also throwing up if I give him a free card and a comes. I feel like I played the turn wrong, but would like someone to tell me an optimal way to play it, I also feel like I bet too small on the turn. I should also note I have no reads on this player, never seen him or played with him before.I think check folding the river is best, but is there any hand I could possibly beat? After I folded he showed the 4 of hearts, so it was either a complete bluff or A4 suited I would imagine, he was also talking about how he should have bet smaller so i would call. Another hand I picked up A A UTG and I made it 20, player to my left calls, player on button shoves for $75 total. The player on my left has about $200 behind and I have him covered, I decided to just flat with the intentions of shoving almost any flop if he also calls. Is this a good thing to do or should I just 4bet shove pre?
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 11:37
|
|
|
I think there's 67 on the flop not 60. The 7 doesn't make a huge difference later in the hand, but it does make a decent difference in terms of the flop sizing you can/should be using. 35 is probably too small and my first inclination is to fire 50ish, even though we have kind of an awkward stack size starting the hand with 60bb. We can't really just cbet flop then shove turn, we still have too much back on the turn. But if we two barrel turn (after firing 50ish on flop), we're generally going to be committed and never folding at that point anyway, especially when the ace peels, even if it is the As. Also, betting on the smaller side with 35 loses value from worse aces and flush draws that will regularly and happily peel at least one street in position. As far as mp, I think it's unlikely he's bluffing, even with showing the 4h, unless he has specifically something like 45/46s and decided to gently caress with you on the turn when the spade comes off, or possibly 44 that peels flop, decides to turn his hand in to a bluff on the spade, but then rivers and gets there anyway. Your cbet seems small, but mp still has someone to act behind him, so floating there is a pretty risky proposition for mp and I think that makes it a lot less unlikely too happen. Regardless, when he shows the 4h, you ALWAYS had the best hand on the turn, which sucks but try not to think about it and be results oriented. Take it all with a grain of salt, I have very limited live experience, but I'd much prefer to bet flop bigger and then bet/almost never folding turn on the ace. Worst case scenario, we need to fill up, but we can still be getting it in good against enough worse aces to make it ok, especially since we're shortstacking. Teppec fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Dec 11, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 15:34
|
|
|
I'm not sure what the correct decision is in hand 1 but I feel like we should be - betting slightly bigger on the flop - if you're betting the turn, bet bigger than 10bb into 27bb I don't actually know what to do on the turn though. You cbet in a multiway pot with an A high board and he calls with one behind him -- it seems like his range would be weighted heavily towards flush draws and worse aces. He could have misplayed sets, but let's assume he raises those on the flop. I really don't think he's calling with virtually any pocket pairs here. There aren't any straight combinations that make much sense with the FD on the board. He'd also have to be calling pre with some very low suited connectors. I feel like the line should be: Cbet bigger check turn, probably fold to a bet? Seems bad if he's ever betting weaker aces here, but I think his flush range way outweighs his Ax and other random bluff range If we get to river we should still check/fold, I think. His worse aces without a spade aren't betting, and I can't really find a range of hands he'd be bluffing us with given the previous action. Hand 2, yeah that's good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 18:05
|
|
|
Yeah definitely betting bigger on flop, I would bet like 50 or pot it so we can comfortably get it in on the turn. I would probably bet 100ish on turn then come back over the top when he raises the turn as there really isn't anything else we can do with our stack and there are so many bad river cards. His range is worse aces/pair+fd/flush/weirdly played sets, though sets are mega-unlikely given the flop action. As played check-folding river. Any other reads on villain? Do you think he'd raise his draws on flop? I'm also usually opening for more pre live at 2/5 (like at least 30), but I'm guessing 20 was the standard open? Hand 2 is well-played. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Dec 11, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 18:37
|
|
|
Blinky2099 posted:I feel like the line should be: Not sure I agree, especially once we get to the turn. With the As coming off, it removes a bunch of FD from his range, and I am pretty confident that he should show up with many more Axcc and big ace hands than he has reasonable xxss hands given position/action. I think flatting flop will weight him somewhat towards tpgk to tpnk hands that should usually just call flop given the multiway play vs flushdraws and 2p+ hands that will raise flop some % of the time in the same situation. I would feel pretty good about bet/calling off or bet/3b shoving turn (depending on eff stacks and villains turn raise). As is the best spade we can hope to see, I think. Remember, we're shortstacking with only 60bb to start the hand, not running with a fullstack of 100bb or more. Getting it in on the turn should be good more than enough considering the money that will be out there already, the number of worse aces we can get it in with, and our redraw equity to fill up to the nuts. I'm pretty sure I'm right, but someone with excellent poker math skills could probably lay out the numbers better than I could. Teppec fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Dec 11, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 19:31
|
|
|
Yeah, with the 60bb stack I was originally thinking we should just bet a little bigger flop/bet a lot bigger turn, committing us. What if we have a 100bb stack here though?
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 19:33
|
|
|
Not sure, villain reads become a lot more important, but I think we can b/f turn. Sizing matters though. When I saw the sizing here I thought he could induce with it a definite non-zero % of the time, so when full stacked we'd still be betting larger. I certainly don't want to give up initiative in a spot where we can keep getting value from Ax hands. Because really, no Ax behind us is folding to a turn barrel when they peel trips in position, even with the 3 flush board, and they probably don't raise turn often without having us crushed, but they can check it back sometimes, or fire when we check putting us in a gross spot where we ch/f better hands. I don't like ch/c turn because we just have really hard river decisions all the time unless board pairs again, and we're unlikely to get action from worse hands on board pairing rivers, or even on K rivers unless we're chopping or we're coolering someone. Edit: Also, live donks love playing any old ace. Teppec fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 11, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 19:36
|
|
|
Live hands are way more about live mannerisms and playing styles so if Hero doesn't talk about the Villain in this hand it's really hard to give out a proper range and what action one should take on the turn. That being said, it seems obvious to me that A4 is his hand once he shows the 4. Players rarely only show one card when they pull a complete bluff on you. Whether they're trying to show off or trying to tilt you, if they bluffed you with 27o they are going to show you both cards. Not just the 7 or just the 2. They got you with a bluff man, you are just a coward AND YOU GOT BLUFFED. They're going to show both cards to put into proper light how much of a chump you are for falling for their bluff. So why do people only show one card? Because they had a legitimate hand. But they can't show you the nuts here because then that means you folded correctly. BUT if they can show you one card that makes you question your fold, well they're going to show you and try and get you on tilt. If he knew your hand he'd show you the A but since his hand-reading is poo poo and it's too risky to show what may or may not be the best hand, he chose to show the 4.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2011 21:47
|
|
|
Teppec posted:I think there's 67 on the flop not 60. The 7 doesn't make a huge difference later in the hand, but it does make a decent difference in terms of the flop sizing you can/should be using. The flop is actually $62, they took $5 out for rake + jackpot, but yeah I can agree that $35 is on the small side. I just moved up from $1/3 so I'm not completely familiar with what my standard opening raise is. On your average $1/3 table my opening raise would usually be $12 or $13 plus some more with each limper. So at $2/5 I've been doing $20 and I'll adjust later on if I feel like I'm getting too many callers in general. I didn't realize at the time how small my turn bet was, but I do think it was bad. After I called the raise I was just hoping to fill up and if not and it was also not a spade I would have checked and maybe called a shove. Thanks for the help.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2011 03:06
|
|
|
Most live players aren't even aware there is a rake much less how much it is so don't factor that in when you do your sizing. "After I called the raise I was just hoping to fill up" yea don't do this when you start a hand with 60bb, you have to get it in here. If you are peeling to catch 3 outs then move back down to 1/3.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 01:57
|
|
|
Dr. Eat posted:Most live players aren't even aware there is a rake much less how much it is so don't factor that in when you do your sizing. If you think we're drawing to 3 outs to fill up move down please
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 02:57
|
|
|
Hand 1: http://weaktight.com/4175011 Had a bunch of notes on villain but he left before I could copy them down for this and I don't know where they're stored. The only one I remember is something like "limp/called Q3o UTG". I'm guessing villain has a range mostly weighted towards 2 pair and sets. He's been playing very loose passive preflop. Do we just fold to this minraise? ------------------ Hand 2: http://weaktight.com/4175021 Villain has opened a lot of hands pre over a few orbits. Not sure about my bet-sizing. I probably give up on most turns, but since we get a gutshot + FD I decide to barrel. I'm not sure if he calls two streets with pocket pairs lower than queens, but it's a possibility. Give up, or fire river? Sizing? ------------------ Hand 3: http://weaktight.com/4175025 Same guy as before. In hand 2 I checked river and he showed up with 55. He has continued to be opening extremely wide pre. I 3bet pre for value because he has bet/called a little wide on a small sample of occasions. I'm not sure why I bet so much on the turn. I think his range on the turn is AK-AQ, sets, all pocket pairs, 76, 65, 54, flush draws. I have no idea how to play in these spots. If I chck turn, he can bet and we have to call. We then probably have to call most non-heart rivers. If I bet turn, I guess we're bet/folding since his range crushes ours? River I assume we check/fold all day -- aces got there, hearts got there, and we certainly don't get value out of worse. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Dec 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 06:04
|
|
|
MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:If you think we're drawing to 3 outs to fill up move down please Also given the way the hand played out it's extremely likely villain had ace.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 06:33
|
|
|
1. Easy call. I doubt he is folding to a 3bet so I would rather just call for the implied odds with your 8 outs to the nuts. His minraise is also an indication that he could bet small on the turn, which is good for us. 2. 3bet bigger preflop, and probably don't be 3betting here as a bluff too often vs. an UTG open. It's not a great spot for you if he's defending 3bets liberally, which can easily be the case with the size you made it. Be more inclined to 3bet those situations when you are in position. Flop cbet is fine, and on the turn betting is probably best because we don't want to c/f, and c/c or c/r are likely worse than just betting. We want to get him to fold 88-TT, AK, and random floats. I think we could go a little bigger, we really don't want to get called again by AK here because it should make up a good portion of his range and we aren't planning on bluffing blank rivers. I check river, I don't think he can fold much of his range. 3. There shouldn't be a lot of heart combo's in his range, since he will fold a lot of them pre, and the Jh and Ah are dead. If he is calling twice with AQ/AK here then river is a c/f, but I don't know how likely that is. If you can assume he isn't turning made hands into bluffs when you check river, c/f is clearly the best play. That would be assuming there isn't much value in shoving, which is the next best play most likely. As a default I don't mind c/f'ing because the guy has shown some loose peels, so AQ,AK,A6s,A2s,A3s could be in his range, and we should assume as a standard that most people don't turn 88 into a bluff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 08:05
|
|
|
Blinky2099 posted:Hand 1: http://weaktight.com/4175011 Well right off the bat were getting slighty better then five to one on expressed odds and we improve to the nuts one out of six times on the turn. If the guy is limping q3 he is never folding two pair or sets on the turn. So we can just ship the 1.66 effective when we get there and expect to be called pretty much always. We also have a pretty easy fold if the turn bricks for us unless he bets really tiny. He is going to get there on the river a decent amount of the time when we do improve, but overall I'm pretty sure calling then shipping if we improve is plus ev. I'd like to stove it, but my desktop monitor died on me today. The other two hands are pretty gross spots and I don't feel qualified to give you an answer. Also min raises are generally really strong hands, or weak made hands trying to buy a cheap showdown. Make a note of what he has if the hand gets that far. TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Dec 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 08:20
|
|
|
Thanks for the advice, guys. http://weaktight.com/4175219 Villain is 31/28 over ~28 hands, been opening a lot late position. I haven't been 3betting pre much, and have not 3bet him at all. I think pre and flop are standard. Turn we gain a nut flush draw. After his flop call I think he can have hands like AT-AK, JT, T9, KQ, 88-AA, 98s, sets, maybe some pairs worse than 7s but probably not. Betting can get his PPs 99 and lower to fold, and maybe some of his Tx hands. River I'm not sure if we can get folds. Pot is $3.66 and he has $2.14 left. I think river should be c/f. Everything seem alright? Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Dec 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 10:10
|
|
|
If we're giving up blank rivers I would rather bet bigger on the turn, and if we are shoving blank rivers it is better to go smaller on the turn, probably even smaller than you bet like .60. That way you keep in more weak hands that can fold on river, and you give him a worse price on his river call which could lead him to fold more often. I don't know much about these players' tendencies to fold anything, so as played I think you are fine giving up. Overall the bet tiny turn, shove river plan might be best because he can conceivably float flop and turn with no pair hands like KJ, AJ, AK, and even weak pairs like 88-99.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 11:21
|
|
|
Blinky2099 posted:Thanks for the advice, guys. Zero nailed the first three hands as usual. I don't think you need to 3b pre. Especially not at .02/.04 because it's not like you are going to 3b/5b shove over a 4b, it takes a lot to generate the kind of dynamic where this would be good, and is probably close to impossible to generate at nanos since almost noone here will ever 4b you light unless they are a total spaz. You'll know this pretty quickly if they are. I also doubt most people at nanos pay enough attention to people 3b and 4b light unless it's outrageously light. Your hand as is will certainly be ahead of his btn opening range. Also he's unlikely to defend against 3bs with much worse the times he just calls. Not sure if I'm thinking correctly about this though. I also think it's more interesting if you had flatted pre and then attacked and check/raised this flop against a cbet. If villain seems kind of aggressive, it's a good spot for it, especially since so much of the deck increases your equity on the turn and can let you fire more barrels if you want. Villain will probably miss this flop quite often as well even if he's opening/stealing wide. Teppec fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Dec 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 12:45
|
|
|
ZeroStar posted:If we're giving up blank rivers I would rather bet bigger on the turn, and if we are shoving blank rivers it is better to go smaller on the turn, probably even smaller than you bet like .60. That way you keep in more weak hands that can fold on river, and you give him a worse price on his river call which could lead him to fold more often. Some more hands: ----------------------- Hand 1: http://weaktight.com/4175383 cyyp is 72/0 over like 70 hands ihadtrips is new to the table limper 23/10 over 100 hands Should I be flatting and essentially set-mining pre? Seems like 3betting is overrepping our hand here. How is my bet-sizing here? The money can easily go in by river, so I feel like betting smaller to induce/get worse hands to call is the best option... but after looking at the hand it seems like we'll only be letting draws get in for cheap, and all other hands would be calling/getting it in anyways. Thoughts? ------------------------ Hand 2: http://weaktight.com/4175390 Villain 27/12 over 50 hands. Can we get away from this? His sizing is really loving weird. ------------------------ Hand 3: http://weaktight.com/4175395 UTG 30/11 over 53, hasn't shown down much. BTN is new to the table What the hell do i do here? I was a little scared of UTG having AA after that limp/call a 18x shove, but obv not folding. Maybe I should have just raised again pre. I have no idea how to assign a range postflop. I assume he has 99+ after he calls flop but I don't loving know. Turn I figure maybe JJ QQ AA, but I think AA shoves by now, and maybe QQ. Maybe he has some poo poo like AQdd, or maybe some other AXdd. River I feel like we're only beating QQ at this point and I don't understand how anything else plays like this that we beat and is also calling, so I check behind. ---------------------------- Hand 4: http://weaktight.com/4175401 Villain 30/23/4.8 over 74 hands, hasn't spazzed postflop My turn call was to try to bet him off overpairs on the river but looking back I think that's loving stupid because he probably check/calls river always unless he's barreling overcards randomly, in which we have the best hand anyways. As played, the river bet/timing seemed like a blocking bet. I figured I could get at least Ts/Js to fold river, and certainly all of his non-spade high PPs. Does this seem reasonable? Made the sizing smaller to look stronger + save some money when he just shoves over or calls or whatever. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Dec 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 12:51
|
|
|
Hand 1: Not sure how often I 3b pre over someone running 23/10 and isoing from ep, but I don't think it's bad by any stretch. Bigger on flop, ship turn. He's not folding any ace, any spades, might not fold any KJ/QJ hands either, not folding Axcc or Jxcc on turns. He's obviously a fish, fish chase and don't fold top pair, so charge him. You are destroying his range. On the river, he's got to have a made hand (at least tp+ I think) to put the rest in, but that is not the case on the turn. Hand 2: I don't expect many villains to overbet pot with tp+ here, and since he's got like 35bb to start the hand, I probably just ship over him and expect to see mostly 4x/6x and diamond draws, maybe some straight draws too, although we block those somewhat. If he shows you a T or if he was tarping like JJ+ (unlikely, I'd expect l/rr more than l/c followed by huge donk), it's a good note to have. I would not fold though. Hand 3: First, I absolutely 4b pre. Action goes limp/iso/3b shove/coldcall. You are 150bb deep with a probable loose passive who just decided he didn't want to fold to the shortie shove. I probably 4b to like 2.1-2.2 and then just ship any flop, or instastack if he shoves. After you decide to overcall, I probably bet bigger on the flop, like 1.6-1.8, then ship most turns, definitely shipping this one. So, basically, please put more money in, everywhere. Guy who is like 30/10 is going to have a huge range of hands here pre, even with the coldcall. If you stacked with him a few hands before with the 88, his holding there is maybe slightly relevant to this situation, but probably not by much. As played, checkback on the river is probably ok, but the problem you are having with postflop ranging is that you don't really bet any kind of size that narrows his preflop range. Your bets are both so small he can continue with almost 100% of his preflop hands, especially if he's a station-y or floaty type. Hand 4: I like the line. I dislike the idea of deciding of calling turn to bet him off overpairs on the river. I agree with you that we can still be good some of the time on the turn and it's worth calling. And as shown here, we can still choose to turn our hand in to a bluff on the river with the right situation. Also like your river sizing and the reason for that sizing. We might even be able to go a little smaller, but I would not go below 2. Teppec fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Dec 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 15:35
|
|
|
Blinky2099 posted:Hand 1: http://weaktight.com/4175011 Hand 1: Call, get it in if you hit, don't bluff if you miss, fold turn if he bets very large. Hand 2: Seems alright, bet slightly larger on turn. Check/fold river. Hand 3: Fine, check/fold river.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2011 15:43
|
|
|
ZeroStar posted:If we're giving up blank rivers I would rather bet bigger on the turn, and if we are shoving blank rivers it is better to go smaller on the turn, probably even smaller than you bet like .60. That way you keep in more weak hands that can fold on river, and you give him a worse price on his river call which could lead him to fold more often. That's terrific advice. I've never thought about the next street like that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2011 00:29
|
|
|
Blinky2099 posted:
My analysis is that villain is pissed off that you saw through his bluff with A8 no spade because he bet too small on the river.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2011 04:33
|
|
|
Dr. Eat posted:I don't? Maybe I misunderstood KTL but he seemed to be saying that he thought he was beat on the turn by a flush and was calling to peel/fill up then reevaluate. I thought I was possibly beat by a flush, but that doesn't change the fact that I had 10 outs to beat a flush and not 3.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2011 07:11
|
|
|
Local casino 1/3. Effective stacks are $200. I'm in SB with QQ. Two limpers (one early, one late). I raise to 15. BB folds, limpers call. Flop is Qs8s2c. Check around Turn is 5s. I bet 20, early limper folds, late limper calls. River is 6s. I check and the late limper checks, flipping over JsJc. Was the turn bet too small, or should I have bet the flop?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2011 17:32
|
|
|
Bet flop. As played, turn bet could be like 25-30, but it seems okay.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2011 19:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 16:46 |
|
|
can you explain your flop thought process?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2011 20:10
|
|
