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Live $50/100 game. Eff stacks ~$50k. Game has been running short handed a while and villain is tricky and aggro. Hero has A  9Hero on BTN opens $500. BB calls. Flop: A  98 ($1050)BB check-calls $2000 on flop Turn: 9  ($5050)Check Check River: 2 ($5050)BB bets $15000 Hero ? Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Dec 22, 2011 |
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Dec 22, 2011 09:14
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^^hero says "I know you got it kid" and open-folds for meta-game ldo. though he calls if the villain isn't eastern-european.MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:The bottom line of this train of thought is "im scared to play larger pots." I'm fine with betting 30-40 (tbh more towards 40 cause of all the stuff Zerostar said). Assuming we get called in two spots pot is ~150 we have 200 behind, we've definitely committed ourselves to the pot if turn bricks which I'm not a fan of deep but oh well, definitely for value. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Dec 22, 2011 |
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Dec 22, 2011 09:17
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Dr. Eat posted:Assuming we get called in two spots pot is ~150 we have 200 behind, we've definitely committed ourselves to the pot if turn bricks which I'm not a fan of deep but oh well, definitely for value. I don't know why you think this?? We're definitely not committed in any way.
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Dec 22, 2011 09:21
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1.5:1 SPR on turn. We should be betting like 75-100 on most turns, we have 100-120 left on river and pot is at least 300.
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Dec 22, 2011 09:29
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You need to think more about what being "commited" means. You are only commited if your pot odds are better than your equity against villain's range. If your equity is 0% because villain only ever has the nuts in some spot, you are never ever commited no matter how low the SPR is.
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Dec 22, 2011 10:03
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Live $50/100 game. Against an average player I would probably try trapping. But I think villain is to smart for that. So I really like the over bet. It looks like we are trying to buy it. Turn makes it look like villain is on flush draw. We could bet giving him a good price on it knowing full well hes drawing dead, but checking and praying a spade falls on the river is also acceptable. On the river after the flush gets there (and villain bets his flush), I would probably hit the time so villain thinks we have a tough decision (us in the know poker players call this a "hollywood"). Then after almost timing out I make sure to ship the rest of my chips in expecting to be called by a flush. Dr. Eat posted:^^hero says "I know you got it kid" and open-folds for meta-game ldo. though he calls if the villain isn't eastern-european. You did this better then me. TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Dec 22, 2011 |
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Dec 22, 2011 10:11
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MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:
LOTL what's with your hand? idgi Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Dec 22, 2011 |
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Dec 22, 2011 10:48
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Dr. Eat posted:1.5:1 SPR on turn. We should be betting like 75-100 on most turns, we have 100-120 left on river and pot is at least 300. As far as I understand it, SPR is only applied to flop play prior to any postflop action. I might be wrong though. Anyone have some more information on this?
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Dec 22, 2011 13:24
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Well we are talking about being committed. The original better on the river was a bad aggro. The guy who shipped it was on the nitty side. Can we fold getting 7-1 knowing a bluff is incredibly unlikely and his value range crushes ours when he 4 bets? I didnt see it at the time but zerostar pointed out, sets are unlikely here with this many draws out. MERGE_GAME #4567250500366: Holdem NL $0.10/$0.25 12/22/2011 03:40:20 Table Tijuana (45672505), Seats 6 Seat 1: LastFlowers ($29.98 in chips) Seat 2: Beepeep ($58.67 in chips) Seat 3: poonaniboy ($29.47 in chips) Seat 4: ercholo ($5.70 in chips) DEALER Seat 5: CravingCards ($14.60 in chips) Seat 6: Ipoopinmypants ($42.21 in chips) CravingCards: Post SB $0.10 Ipoopinmypants: Post BB $0.25 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to LastFlowers [Ac Ts] LastFlowers: Raise $0.75 Beepeep: Fold poonaniboy: Call $0.75 ercholo: Fold CravingCards: Raise $1.25 Ipoopinmypants: Call $1.00 LastFlowers: Call $0.50 poonaniboy: Call $0.50 *** FLOP *** [7s As 8h] CravingCards: Check Ipoopinmypants: Check LastFlowers: Bet $3.00 poonaniboy: Call $3.00 CravingCards: Fold Ipoopinmypants: Call $3.00 *** TURN *** [4c] Ipoopinmypants: Check LastFlowers: Check poonaniboy: Check *** RIVER *** [Td] Ipoopinmypants: Bet $8.00 LastFlowers: Raise $16.00 poonaniboy: Allin $25.22 Ipoopinmypants: Fold LastFlowers: Call $9.22 *** SUMMARY *** poonaniboy: Shows [Js 9s] LastFlowers: Shows [Ac Ts] poonaniboy: wins $69.44 TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 22, 2011 |
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Dec 22, 2011 18:43
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opps
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Dec 22, 2011 18:46
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Live $50/100 game. hes on the flush, you'll beat him with your nines full over aces. act weak and ship it in!!!!
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Dec 22, 2011 20:47
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Live $50/100 game. Give him a cookie pf
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Dec 22, 2011 20:58
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I recommend checking. All I would do is check.
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Dec 23, 2011 02:17
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Stefan Prodan posted:I recommend checking. All I would do is check.
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Dec 23, 2011 04:45
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rouliroul posted:You need to think more about what being "commited" means. You are only commited if your pot odds are better than your equity against villain's range. If your equity is 0% because villain only ever has the nuts in some spot, you are never ever commited no matter how low the SPR is. edit: but you see the pot can get ballooned up really fast and you can be getting crazy odds at the end on a river call in the AT hand. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Dec 23, 2011 |
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Dec 23, 2011 09:51
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Dr. Eat posted:this is why i can't play limit i'd like always call and if it was just one bet and be like "gently caress it i wanna see your cards" too much. "crazy odds" doesnt mean anything if we are losing???
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Dec 23, 2011 20:51
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Live straight 2. 6 handed. I'm on the button. I have $280, which covers everyone by a good amount except for BB who is very very tight, but has over $600. Guy to my right has been raising, no joke, every 3rd hand at the very least. Has $120 or so in front. Very very aggressive guy. Has been showing down mid pairs, showed a couple bluffs. I'm dealt 8c9c. SB and BB post, fold, fold, he makes it $8. I make it $20. SB folds. BB Folds. CO calls. So that leaves us: Hero 8c9c CO xx Flop comes 7c6h3c CO bets $50. Hero ??
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Dec 27, 2011 09:37
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You can never fold this flop of course, so just shove seeing as the stack sizes are so short. I don't like your 3bet pf with the stack sizes how they are, I would rather flat call or be 3betting a hand like KQo rather than this one. You don't want to be getting into 3bet pots with 9 high against guys with 60bb who are willing to fight for pots.
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Dec 27, 2011 10:24
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Live $50/100 game. I bet it oowall
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Dec 27, 2011 10:43
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ZeroStar posted:You can never fold this flop of course, so just shove seeing as the stack sizes are so short. I posted that mainly for my preflop action, I wanted some opinion on sizing. I'm way too loose aggressive by attacking a loose aggressive guy here, aren't I? I did shove, and he had 56. I missed all my outs.
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Dec 27, 2011 17:57
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It's just going to be better to 3bet hands like AJ, KQ, AQ, etc. He will defend with a wide range and get it in wide postflop, so with a small stack-pot ratio you want to just be making strong top pairs. 89s is a hand you 3bet deeper stacked where your hand can be disguised, and you are getting your equity from them folding a lot preflop, and your hand being good against their tight 3bet defend range, implied odds etc. 89s does not do well against a loose 3bet defending range, especially with 60bb stacks.
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Dec 27, 2011 22:39
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Crazy685 posted:I posted that mainly for my preflop action, I wanted some opinion on sizing. I'm way too loose aggressive by attacking a loose aggressive guy here, aren't I? Its kind of obvious you mostly only posted results because you lost like most people do. What, do you want someone to pat you on the back and say "hey man you played it ok that sucks buddy." Like zerostar said this is a really poor hand to 3bet and it seems like we're just doing it to "play back at him" for the sake of playing back at him. This is called fancy play syndrome. Don't do it.
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Dec 28, 2011 00:44
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ZeroStar posted:It's just going to be better to 3bet hands like AJ, KQ, AQ, etc. He will defend with a wide range and get it in wide postflop, so with a small stack-pot ratio you want to just be making strong top pairs. 89s is a hand you 3bet deeper stacked where your hand can be disguised, and you are getting your equity from them folding a lot preflop, and your hand being good against their tight 3bet defend range, implied odds etc. 89s does not do well against a loose 3bet defending range, especially with 60bb stacks. So my logic is insanely flawed simply because of the stack sizes, or am I misunderstanding you (very possible, almost likely)? I seem to almost have it absolutely backwards, because I felt that he would shove flops that he felt I would miss, when infact I edit: hit them. That's where I was coming from, and reading your post, I seem to be hilariously wrong. Thanks for the post, it makes a lot of sense now. MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:Like zerostar said this is a really poor hand to 3bet and it seems like we're just doing it to "play back at him" for the sake of playing back at him. This is called fancy play syndrome. Don't do it. If I wanted to post results, I would have in the first post. I only posted because of his earlier post, but I digress. I was unaware of "fancy play syndrome" but that's a pretty great label for it, thinking about it, and you're right. Thanks. Amy Pole Her fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Dec 28, 2011 |
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Dec 28, 2011 08:31
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Crazy685 posted:So my logic is insanely flawed simply because of the stack sizes, or am I misunderstanding you (very possible, almost likely)? I seem to almost have it absolutely backwards, because I felt that he would shove flops that he felt I would miss, when infact I edit: hit them. That's where I was coming from, and reading your post, I seem to be hilariously wrong. Thanks for the post, it makes a lot of sense now. This guy is going to make you put your stack in often. When you 3bet, you're going to be putting your stack in on the flop or the turn usually. You also have very little preflop fold equity. 89s doesn't make hands that you want to put all your money in often enough. When selecting hands preflop, you should be thinking about what the hands 'like'. Suited connectors like fold equity and implied odds, big cards like opponents who go too far with weak 1 pairs and opponents with wide ranges that you dominate. Which sounds more like the person you are playing with? I would much rather have K9s than 89s versus your opponent.
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Dec 28, 2011 16:54
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I'd like a line check here: $2/$5 Live NLHE 9 players Hero (~$800) Villain 1 (~$400): An ABC player. Seems to raise preflop a normal percentage of the time, has an appropriate level of aggression. Doesn't really limp a lot. Not great, but not horrible either. Villain 2 (~$700): An extremely loose passive and terrible player who chases draws and plays weak preflop holdings. In an earlier hand I raised pre with 8  5 from the CO and he called from the BB. I bet the flop of 765, he called. Turn 9, I bet and he called off 2/3 of his stack instead of jamming. River was 3. He jammed for like $100 into a ~$600 pot and I puke-called (was probably a mistake given this player). He turned over J9.As for the hand in question: Folds to Villain 1 in MP. Villain 1 raises to $20. Villain 2 calls $20. I'm in the BB with 10 9 and I call for $15 more.I think the call from the BB was pretty standard, no reason to fold or raise there. Flop: Q 8 4 (Pot: $55 with rake and jackpot taken out)I check. Villain 1 bets $30. Villain 2 calls $30. I raise to $110. Villain 1 folds. Villain 2 calls $80. I probably would have folded if Villain 2 folded, but his call led me to believe that his range could include draws (as well as made hands like sets, pairs, etc.). I decided to raise because I thought Villain 1 could have c-bet this board with air because it's not TOO likely that it hit either me or Villain 2, and even if he had a medium holding like 99-JJ he would probably fold to a check-raise. So I figured I had a good chance of just taking it down there, and I wanted to punish Villain 2 if he had a draw and called. When Villain 2 just flat calls, given his image I think draws are still a large percentage of his range. I was planning on betting any non-spade turn and river. Turn: 2 (Pot: $295)I bet $160. He calls $160. Turn card changes nothing so I bet. When he called here his hand range doesn't seem to change much. River: 2 (Pot: $615)I jam for his remaining ~$410. Does this line seem reasonable given the description of the villain?
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Dec 28, 2011 20:51
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The only thing I don't like about it is that we have nothing and you say we are trying to punish villain 2 for some reason (even though he has plenty of Queens in his range that are never folding) and there's not a lot we can do to punish him. Sure we can bet/shove and get draws to fold but why would we take such a marginal spot (if it's +ev at all) when he's terrible and we get paid in all better spots? I just fold flop we're picking on the wrong player in the wrong way. Turn and river are basically perfect-perfect for us to take this line but I don't think we can take it enough to show a profit. e: like do the math on how many shitloads of Qx he has versus how many spades he can have. It's not looking very good. MY INEVITABLE DEBT fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Dec 28, 2011 |
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Dec 28, 2011 21:13
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I hate this line, you are out of position versus someone who calls too much so you decide to bluff off your stack with a gutshot+bdfd? I vastly prefer leading this flop since you force V1 out of the hand a lot of the time (he can't continue without being strong since he knows he has a sticky V2 behind him) if you want to continue, or just check/fold. Check/raising is the worst option IMO - I don't hate a check/call but its probably not going to show a profit, but if you check/call and lead any river after turn gets checked through (which will happen a lot with a sticky V2 who has a lot of weak hands in his range) it wouldn't be awful, but check/raising with a gutshot when you know you are going to get called a lot of the time is just not a good plan.
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Dec 28, 2011 21:24
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MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:e: like do the math on how many shitloads of Qx he has versus how many spades he can have. It's not looking very good. Just ran this poo poo through flopzilla, and it seems somewhat reasonable to peg his Qx+ percent at around 35%. We only need this bluff to work 40% of the time, but unfortunately he might call with some poo poo like an 8 or JJ-99. So, long story short I think you're right.
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Dec 28, 2011 21:52
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Friend told me I should play 6 max cause it's fun and will help me with postflop play. Villain was playing 55/27 over 13 hands. I hadn't seen him donkbet before. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com Button ($19.93) SB ($21.12) BB ($27.77) UTG ($9.25) MP ($26.06) Hero (CO) ($25) Preflop: Hero is CO with K  , K [color=#666666]2 folds[/color], [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $0.80[/color], [color=#666666]1 fold[/color], SB calls $0.70, [color=#666666]1 fold[/color] Flop: ($1.85) 8  , 6, 5 [color=#009B00](2 players)[/color][color=#CC3333]SB bets $0.75[/color], [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $3[/color], SB calls $2.25 Turn: ($7.85) 9  [color=#009B00](2 players)[/color]SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $5[/color], SB calls $5 River: ($17.85) 8 [color=#009B00](2 players)[/color][color=#CC3333]SB bets $6.25[/color], Hero ??? I bet the turn so I could fold to a check-raise or a decent size bet on the river but I'm getting like 4:1 here. Can he really have 7x? Also don't sets get it on flop or turn on this mega-wet board? Does the fact that he's playing half of all hands (over a small sample) mean he can just show up with anything here? He has to know I have an overpair but like... Also any comments on my sizing? Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Dec 29, 2011 |
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Dec 29, 2011 09:10
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Dr. Eat posted:Also any comments on my sizing? I think flop sizing looks big but is probably fine. Seems like a loose opponent and you can just make a big raise to get extra value against his ghastly wide range. Turn sizing should be 0. Probably 35% of his range on the turn is sets+, and those aren't folding ever. At least 10% is 2p that aren't likely to fold either (unless he gets counterfeited). Maybe you get a tiny bit of value from the TT and the 9x that managed to flat flop and lead/call flop because, hey overpair and/or gutshot. But that's not enough to make up for all the money you lose betting drawing dead or to 2 or 6 outs. Seems like a mistake to bet $5 into $7.85 when you expect him to continue a majority of the time with a range that has 70% equity against your hand. A dude who's playing 55/27 over 13 hands is pretty likely to flat all sorts of hands from the SB that contain 7s. T7-57, A7, K7s, maybe Q7s and J7s. It's true that sets/2p may get it in on the flop, but the absence of a flush draw could compel this guy to b/c a set or two pair (either to slowplay against what he might perceive as a bluff-heavy range, or because he's afraid of running into the nuts or whatever reason) on the flop. Then when the 9 turns, he can't just get it in with his set/2p because, in his mind, it's easy for you to have a 7 here. So he c/c hoping to fill up and/or hoping you check. Then when he fills up he's afraid you'll check back so he leads. Anyway, I think I fold river but I don't think a call is awful given the odds. His bet makes no sense with a 7 or an 8; if he's not doing it with the 7 or 8 then it's either boats+ (and they're hard to make) for value or random poo poo (counterfeited 65 maybe) he decides to turn into a bluff. But, given his stats I would have to expect a nonsensically-played 7 or an 8 often enough that, combined with the boat possibilities I don't think we're good 20.5% of the time. Eh, maybe I call and then have a nice opportunity to beat myself up. Unamuno fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Dec 29, 2011 |
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Dec 29, 2011 10:20
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thanks for the feedback. turn bet was me misapplying something i saw in a cardrunners video =/. agree i should be pot controlling there. think river is an easy fold as played cause i've played my hand so face up he is probably afraid of me checking behind.
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Dec 29, 2011 11:38
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Dr. Eat posted:thanks for the feedback. Wrong thinking - your hand isn't face up on the river because this guy isn't thinking about your range, he is just thinking about his cards. Still check back turn / fold river.
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Dec 29, 2011 16:02
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I'd like some advice on a couple spots. Live $1/$2 NLHE 9 players Hero (~$300) Villain (~$600) Young kid, fairly aggressive, seems decent if not amazing, he's limped a lot of pots but aside from that hasn't done anything too stupid. Preflop: I'm dealt 5 5 in the BB. MP raises to $8, button calls Villain calls in SB, I call. Flop: Flop comes 2 5 6. Villain bets $15. I raise to $45. Everyone else folds, villain calls. Pot is around $130.Turn: 7 . Villain checks. I bet $50, Villain calls. Pot is around $230.River: 3 Villain leads out for $75. Hero ???I really didn't think a straight made any sense here, given the villain's line. I thought it was possibly he could be doing this with badly played aces or maybe two pair, possibly another set. One more spot, same table. Preflop: I've got about $200. I'm dealt A A on the button, with a bunch of limpers in the pot. I raise to $15, get one caller in MP. Older guy sitting on maybe $700, seems decent, likes to play a lot of pots. Pot is about $40.Flop: J 7 7 Villain checks. I bet $25, villain minraises to $50. Is shoving really bad here? Beforehand the villain had showed some premiums he'd folded when faced with aggression. Or is it better to just call and see what happens on the turn. I'd been playing pretty aggressively, so he knew I'd be betting this board regardless of my actual hand.
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Dec 29, 2011 22:01
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Hand 1: Your turn bet sizing is pretty bad, as that card smacks his continuing range (while still letting you keep the best hand). $100 would get him pot stuck. River I probably call cause gently caress folding sets live for those odds. Hand 2: Shoving is bad because he will fold his hands he minraised to 'see where he is at' and continue with his hands that crush you, so just flat. If he checks turn then bet a bunch and get your money in, if he bets small you can call down, if he bets big you should let it go.
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Dec 29, 2011 22:14
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Bug Bill Murray: first hand, bet way bigger on the turn (like at least 80, probably closer to pot sized). on the river you have a set at live 1/2 there aren't too many 4x combos he can have (unless he flopped the nuts, then nice hand sir), i'm calling gently caress it. hand 2: just flat his minraise if you jam he isn't calling with queens/tens/Jx. plus we're out of position. call him down to get to shodwown as long as the pot isn't too ridiculously big. i dunno if villain is thinking on the level that this a good board to c-raise a cbet (those kind of people are really rare at live 1/2 but when he minraises it can just be getting sick of your cbets) but yea just see what he does on turn and river. edit: wrt to Mind Taker's hand you picked a really bad target to triple barrel. i dunno how you can put him just on spades he has tons of Qx/JJ/TT that are never folding. i usually don't take this line but i like leading flop instead of check-raising cause it allows you to make smaller barrels on later streets and you can still valuetown the poo poo out of villain if you hit your draw. i think check-folding is best though. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Dec 29, 2011 |
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Dec 29, 2011 22:51
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I think I played this hand badly, let's see if you guys agree with me! Live $2/$3 NLHE, 9-handed. I am short stacked with about $180 and on the button. BB has played maybe 3 hands in the hour I've been at the table. SB is an older guy who plays fairly tight, and doesn't bluff much (if at all) from what I've seen so far. He's slow played a few big hands. Both players have me covered. Preflop: Action folds to me on the button with K T. I raise to $15, SB insta-calls and BB mucks.Given the quick call, I think SB is likely to have a strong ace. Pot is around $30. Flop: Flop is 6 6 8. SB checks.At this point I think I'm behind to his ace high, and with my preflop raise, will he really believe I have a 6 or 8? I check behind. Pot remains $30. Turn: 10 . SB checks.I decide to bet my top pair/flush draw and throw out $20. SB calls, making the pot around $70. River: 2 . SB bets $25. Pot is at ~$105. What should I do?What I actually did: I figured he had something like AJ/AQ, and for him to lead the river he probably has a spade. However, if he had the As, I thought he'd probably try to check-raise me, and he can't have the Ks, so I'm ahead of his J or Q. I raise another $35. The result: He thinks for half a minute, saying he's worried about the 6. Eventually he calls with AsQx. I think the proper play would have been for me to call the river instead of raising. I have not seen him bluff anyone before, so why would he lead with a weaker spade? Or is this just result-oriented thinking?
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Dec 30, 2011 21:16
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If you think he is calling with Js, Qs on the river then your play is not bad. I am fine calling as well, there are some reasons to suggest that he might not bet those hands on the river (old nit etc.), he might fold them to a raise, and there are more As hands than Qs or Js in his range combinatorically. There is also a reason to discount the nuts from his range because he bet $25 into $70 which doesn't really look like a bet As would make, it looks more like a blocking bet. This is 2/3 live though so there is a good chance he just has no concept of betsizing. That doesn't necessarily mean you should raise though, because all his blocking hands like 7s7h could just fold to the raise. The main problem I see is your flop thought process. Yes you are behind ace high hands, but you should be able to get a lot of them to fold. Will he believe you have a 6 or an 8? There should definitely be a lot of those in your range since you opened the button, your PF range should be very wide. All pocket pairs are also in your range. I would usually start by cbetting this flop, checking back can be OK with a different plan to take down the pot, but we should be aggressive on this board because it is really hard for your opponent to have a made hand, let alone a good made hand.
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Dec 31, 2011 00:54
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Bet the flop.
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Dec 31, 2011 01:04
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Yeah you have pretty level 1 thinking. Just try and put yourself in your opponent's shoes. Imagine you have ace-high on 866ssc with no flush draw and the pre-flop raiser bets. What do you think he has? Probably some kind of pair (he raised pre-flop after all) and if he has a draw you may be drawing almost dead. So it's hard for you to continue and you fold. This kind of flop is especially good to c-bet cause it's extremely unlikely for villain to have hit a piece of it and it's hard for him to continue if he has overs (and his pair outs might not even be good, for example he has AT and you have AK so the ace won't help him or you can already have trips). This is how you're going to win most of your pots (continuation betting). It will also reduce your variance cause you will go to fewer showdowns. Also bet more on turn and serious lols at him being worried about the 6 with the nutflush/action. What a nitroll. River call is fine btw. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Dec 31, 2011 |
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Dec 31, 2011 02:28
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| # ? May 27, 2024 22:40 |
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Until the guy gives you a reason not to c bet, just do it. People have to play back a metric ton for it not to be profitable.
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Jan 2, 2012 23:25
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